video quality issues - Diamond vc500

[brwalter]

I have a rather unique situation, I am trying to capture video signal from a a Random Number Generator (RNG) for a video display in a bingo hall. The video source is a very old piece of hardware made by Arrow international which outputs a digital image of a bingo ball. I can plug this in via composite input in a TV and the image looks great. I plug it in to the Diamond vc500 and the picture is black and white, has lines through it, the picture jumps vertically and flashes. There is a sample image below. This should be just a plain white background with a colored circled and number in the middle.

I can plug in other video sources to my vc500 and they look fine. I tried this on both my laptop and desktop with the same results. Any ideas?

I am wondering if there is some kind of filter, or amplifier that might correct this?

[Brad]

This thing is probably outputting some non-standard video signal that the VC500 chokes on. I was going to suggest it's 240p like old video game consoles, but I found posts saying that people use the VC500 with the NES.

If you have or can borrow a DVD recorder, try seeing whether that will accept the signal. If not, getting a PC capture device that will do it is probably hopeless and I doubt you want to invest in a full-frame TBC just for this.

[ajk]

It'd be interesting to see that signal on an oscilloscope. They must have cut some corners with the video output, TVs are usually very tolerant with this stuff but capture devices not so much.


What is the end result you wish to achieve here? Would it not be easier to replace the hardware random number generator with a PC program? It might not even require any programming - an image viewer with a slide show function and an option to randomize the image order would do the trick!

[brwalter]

In an ideal world, yes I would go to a PC based RNG. Unfortunately Bingo in my state is a state regulated game and the use of an RNG requires that it be tested and certified (very expensive) which is why this old legacy equipment still exists.

I am using a third party PC based flashboard that we will be outputting to several lcd televisions. The program has the ability to place a video in the upper left hand corner which is where you would usually have a camera on the bingo balls as they are called. In our case we are using an RNG, but still the same principal.

The flashboard software sort of passes through the image from the capture device so it is a live feed, I am not trying to capture the video. From the flashboard software standpoint, it is working properly. I can display other video just fine, it is just this RNG video source that is a problem.

Is there any kind of filter or converter I could use that might help this? I am a newbie to this so any assitance is appreciated. Here are 2 items I found on Amazon I thought of trying:

Video Ground Loop Isolator

Clip on Noise Suppressor

[ajk]

I don't think either of those would help. Yours an unusual application so it's very hard to say for sure what would work, but following vaporeon800's suggestion and piping the image through a TBC (= time base corrector), DVD recorder or some other kind of active video processor could help.

The idea behind a TBC is that it accepts the poor quality signal as input and outputs proper, stable video. If the certification is expensive, perhaps the cost of a TBC is not that prohibitive after all. But I don't think anyone can guarantee that one will help, you'd have to test it...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/276891-REG/AV_Toolbox_AVT_8710_AVT_8710_Multi_St...Time_Base.html

[brwalter]

This would definitely be much cheaper than certification (thousands to 10 of thousands of dollars), though I am reluctant to spend money needlessly or add any more hardware then necessary.

I am not familiar with a TBC, is this the one you would recommend trying?

I have a TV/DVD combo from Toshiba which has both a video input and output. I tried running the video signal through their prior to the video capture device. While the image is perfect on the TV screen, the image on my PC is unchanged. It appears to just be passing the signal through.

Also, I failed to mention that the output from the RNG is using a BNC connector. I am using an adaptor to change the connection from BNC to RCA to connect to the video capture and/or the TV. I noticed in the book that comes with the RNG it recommends a BNC RG59U cable, but I was originally using a BNC RG58AU. While this didn't seem to matter to the TV, when I replaced it with an RG59U it did improve very slightly on the video capture, but still nowhere near an acceptable quality.

Here is a screen shot of the section of the book that discusses this:

[brwalter]

I just tried another test, the RNG has video input (usually used for a ball camera). I fed a video feed from my television through the RNG and into my capture device. That works perfectly. But when I turn on the RNG so that the device is generating the video signal (as opposed to just passing video through) then I still get the same results I started with.

[ajk]

In my opinion the image is so corrupt, that this can't be an issue with bad cabling or noise or anything simple like that. The video signal must be quite far off spec and the capture device simply can't decode it properly (again, TVs tend to be much more tolerant). And if everything else captures correctly, it shouldn't be an issue in your software or settings either.

Now, in principle a TBC should help with this sort of thing. The AVT8710 model is one that is commonly used with video capturing, but then again the source is usually a camcorder or VHS player. I hesitate to personally recommend any particular device, since I simply don't know what it takes to fix this.

Best I can suggest is contacting B&H and asking if you could order the device with a possibility to return it, in case it does not solve the issue. Perhaps other forum members have more ideas.

[brwalter]

Thank you so much for your help. I am inclined to think that this will help.

I just tried another test, i ran the RNG signal through my old VCR and the image has stabilized and quality has improved. It is still in black and white, which is not a deal breaker for me, but if this device can do at least as good at cleaning up the signal then it is worth it to me. Barring any other suggestions someone might post, I think I will give this a try.

[brwalter]

Gave that a shot, did not work unfortunately. I got a good picture initially but since this is a static picture that only changes every 15 seconds, it would ghost the previous image. Also was a bit grainy at times, other times it was perfect and in color. Not sure what to try next

The best scenario I had so far was running it through my VCR/DVD combo through the video in out. Will any VCR duplicate this? I would prefer something smaller as this needs to be moderately portable. Is there any other device you can think of that might duplicate the results of whatever the VCR was doing to clean up the image. It was in black and white but I can live with that.