DVD Architect Next Button Navigation Problem

[SameSelf]

I am going to post here because Sony doesn't allow you to post on their forums unless you own their software, and I am still in trial mode. So if any of you have suggestions, that would be great!

I am trying to author a fairly elaborate Blu-ray. And I am so close I could scream. It consists of what I would call 13 assets that I want to organize into 3 Groups with a Credits Roll that is attached to the end of each Group. The caveat is each asset is a separately rendered file. I only want a single menu page with the ability to click one of the three Groups and a Play All button. So the menu looks something like this:

• Play All --> Plays Assets 1-13 + Credits
• Group A --> Plays Assets 1-9 + Credits
• Group B --> Plays Assets 10-12 + Credits
• Group C --> Plays Asset 13 only

The problem is I can't seem to create Groups that allow scene navigation using the Next button on the remote. Here is what I have tried:

1. Music/Video Compilation: created one for each Group + Play All. This seemed to work exactly the way I wanted. Each Group and the Play All button allowed easy navigation between assets using the Next button. The only problem was DVDA writes out the assets twice, so my 20 GB BD becomes 40 GB. Boo hoo. That won't do.
2. Playlist: created one for each Group + Play All. This seems to be exactly what I want as well. Can add my assets, order them, etc. Not so fast, when I Preview the BD, the Next button doesn't work. No navigation other than skip. Arrgh.
3. Link Play All and each Group to the specific asset where I want it to start and use End Actions to direct navigation on the BD. This is clumsy as far as I am concerned and again, the Next button does not work.

The only thing I haven't tried is rendering my assets as a single asset with chapter markers. But at this point, it would take a couple of days to re-render everything again, only to find that doesn't work either. And there doesn't seem to be an ability to build a timeline in DVDA from assets.

So if anyone can point me in the right direction that would be great. Thanks.

[_Al_]

DVD Architect has a unique function, it can create virtual titles, where you basically copy a title (movie) and you can set different in and out points and even unique chapters within, so you'd need to create 4 of those titles and then set chapters in them , end jump or return would be directed back to the menu , there is going to be only one movie burned on disc, not four,

Sony (Sonic then, Sony bought Sonic foundry I think) had always unique approach in their Vegas videoeditor and even DVD authoring tool

so this was done without needing to create playlists , and that I did while making DVD, not Blu-Ray, you might take a look at it, ..., try to copy title in that left top window, put it on the timeline , create in and out points , chapters, it should be much easier then ...

[_Al_]

Just tested it again,I was not sure how to make that virtual title in that left top window, it was a long time ago I jump out of this "menu" creating procedures , not appropriated, time consuming madness

You just drop the same title four times in that window (it is going to be burned only one time on DVD, creating virtual titles, as DVD structure does) , it is going to have the same name, but that is ok, you can rename them (right click), then each title double click to get its own timeline, create in and out points, chapters,..., end action is going to automatically be "most recent menu"

you can create one virtual title just for credits also, previous virtual title can jump there if you need to instead of recent call menu

EDIT: so you need to encode one long title, movie, with all contents, I think you understand ..., as a matter of fact, that is "DVD specification language" way to do things, to have one long thing and then to do whatever with it with DVD navigation and codes, perhaps DVD architect software developers only understood this , I did not see this trying DVD Maestro, DVD Lab, DVD Encore , all of them needed to go around creating virtutal chapter playlists, but DVD Architect went even further, it can create unique chapter points for each virtual title and also link those virtual titles if needed

[SameSelf]

Just tested it again,I was not sure how to make that virtual title in that left top window, it was a long time ago I jump out of this "menu" creating procedures , not appropriated, time consuming madness

You just drop the same title four times in that window (it is going to be burned only one time on DVD, creating virtual titles, as DVD structure does) , it is going to have the same name, but that is ok, you can rename them (right click), then each title double click to get its own timeline, create in and out points, chapters,..., end action is going to automatically be "most recent menu"

you can create one virtual title just for credits also, previous virtual title can jump there if you need to instead of recent call menu

EDIT: so you need to encode one long title, movie, with all contents, I think you understand ..., as a matter of fact, that is "DVD specification language" way to do things, to have one long thing and then to do whatever with it with DVD navigation and codes, perhaps DVD architect software developers only understood this , I did not see this trying DVD Maestro, DVD Lab, DVD Encore , all of them needed to go around creating virtutal chapter playlists, but DVD Architect went even further, it can create unique chapter points for each virtual title and also link those virtual titles if needed

Agreed, this is time consuming madness! Thank you so very much for your help. I didn't think of adding assets twice in Project Window. So I tried your advice and added my assets twice.

Basically the first instance of each asset forms the Play All chain. I used the End Action in each asset to chain them together. I don't really need to create in and out points because I carefully did all that in PPro as part of the rendering process. IOW, each asset functions as a complete chapter.

The second instance of each asset forms either Group A, B, or C. Again, I chained them together using the End Action.

However, in the Preview BD, the Next buttons still do not work.

It seems that the Next button ONLY works on chapters or music/video compilations, NEVER titles. That is it. I tried a simple test where I built a quick timeline with all my chapters then brought that into DVDA and manually set the chapter points. After doing this, I could navigate with the Next button.

So unless I am missing something, there is really no way to do what I am doing with separate assets. IOW. I gotta re-render everything as one giant timeline. Then I can do what you suggest and bring the timeline in twice and using in and out points plus chapter points build my playlists. Am I missing something?

I guess this wouldn't be such a big deal if I didn't have to re-render everything. So let me ask, what is a simple tool to stitch a bunch of .264 files together losslessly? Thanks so very much.

[_Al_]

It seems that the Next button ONLY works on chapters or music/video compilations, NEVER titles. That is it.

I tried to connect those two virtual titles and it works, making end action of one virtual title to jump to that other virtual title , so not sure why this would not work with two real different titles, I did not try this though.

I gotta re-render everything as one giant timeline. Then I can do what you suggest and bring the timeline in twice and using in and out points plus chapter points build my playlists. Am I missing something?

Each virtual title has its own timeline. Looking at your actual job, perhaps five virtual titles, that means five timelines, using in and out to select :
title 1-13 + Credits (whole movie) ;end action: "recently called menu"
title 1-9 ;end action: title Credits
title 10-12 ; end action: title Credits
title 13 ;end action: "recently called menu"
title Credits ; end action: "recently called menu"

No playlists are actually created, those end jumps in those virtual titles make connection if needed to jump to credits at the end and not to the menu

So let me ask, what is a simple tool to stitch a bunch of .264 files together losslessly? Thanks so very much.

Never needed this, there are software that join containers not sure about raw streams. Put all of them in a container, join them, demux? Not sure how would it play in the end, flawlessly, seamlessly etc., maybe tsMuxer joins them and then you can demux it, if not do it right away

[SameSelf]

After doing some more reading on the web, I think you and I are on the same page. Some of the things I have learned:

- The method of chaining multiple assets together via End Action could actually cause problems for players as they literally have to navigate to each asset which could take anywhere from half a second to several seconds. So this method is not ideal.
- DVDA does not have the ability to build a single timeline from multiple assets.

Anyway, I think the layout you mapped out above is the correct one. No playlists. Rather a single timeline with chapters.

Unfortunately, unless someone comes on here and corrects me, I have to re-render everything because I need to make sure these stay bluray compliant. While it sounds like there is a --stitchable flag in x264, I did not use it, and it is likely not BD compliant.

[_Al_]

yes, to link a lots of titles is not a good idea, if done that, you might check in PGCEdit how it is actually stitched together by DVDArchitect's abstract layer (code), you'd find out, it might go all over the place, through VMG (placed at the beginning of disc) and back to a title, that could be far away somewhere on the disc, so needle of DVD player travels and it makes a noise as well,
looking at PGCEdit right now , checking what happens if there is jump from one virtual title to the other (in your case title 1-9 to title Credits), it goes through one VMGM menu (begining of DVD), then two VTS menus in the title, so definitively there would be a pause between them for example,
there might be a hack possible, to link those two virtual titles in PGCEdit, you can link things within the same title, I remember fixing like that a time ago, having done DVD structure by DVD Maestro, because it was jumping all over the place as well. So if it is linked within the same title, the pause would not be that bad at all, but not sure what would be broken then etc.

BUT!, that goes for DVD, what happens in BD structure a have no clue, I do not know how BD structure is stored on disc, how files in BDMV directory are stored and what the rules are, how to make sure that jump is seamless or not, Blu-Ray hardware should not be that clumsy like older DVD

[DB83]

I have never used DVDA but some time back I used DVD LAB Pro to create a disk with a play all playlist and selectable playlists as a jukebox.

There is only one set of videos in the compilation (no mirrored single track) and I just checked this disk and sure enough I can use 'Next' to move to the following track and Previous likewise (only tested in software player (VLC) but should work on disk as well.

It does not work for selectable playlists and the 'Next' button goes to the real next title rather than the selected one.

Seems that not all programs are alike. Maybe I got lucky. Although DVDLAB does have its own 'Play All' playlist which might explain it.

[SameSelf]

I have never used DVDA but some time back I used DVD LAB Pro to create a disk with a play all playlist and selectable playlists as a jukebox.

There is only one set of videos in the compilation (no mirrored single track) and I just checked this disk and sure enough I can use 'Next' to move to the following track and Previous likewise (only tested in software player (VLC) but should work on disk as well.

It does not work for selectable playlists and the 'Next' button goes to the real next title rather than the selected one.

Seems that not all programs are alike. Maybe I got lucky. Although DVDLAB does have its own 'Play All' playlist which might explain it.

That's all well and good, but recall, I am trying to author a Blu-ray disc, not a DVD. Unless I am mistaken DVD Lab is for authoring DVD only.

Anyway, I created a quick timeline in PPro that consisted of just the titles for each asset. I then exported this and encoded it. When I brought it into DVDA, I copied it four times. Using In/Out points and chapter markers, I was able to create the following:

Bluray First Play: Main Menu with Intro + Loop Point
Selectable icons on the Main Menu which appear at the Loop Point:
Play All: Chapters 1-12 (In/Out) + End Action: Credits Roll + End Action: Main Menu Loop Point
Group A: Chapters 1-9 (In/Out) + End Action: Credits Roll + End Action: Main Menu Loop Point
Group B: Chapters 10-12 (In/Out) + End Action: Credits Roll + End Action: Main Menu Loop Point
Group C: Chapter 13 (In/Out) + End Action: Main Menu Loop Point

When I Preview the project in DVDA, everything seems OK. I can navigate between chapters using the Next/Previous buttons. I can't navigate to the Credits Roll using the Next button but I am willing to live with that. I guess I could always encode the Credits Roll into the timeline as well and chapter it up.

Anway, after writing out the ISO and burning to a BD-RE with ImgBurn, I tried to play it using PotPlayer (VLC and others can't read BD), and it goes straight to the Credits Roll. No Main Menu. I don't have a standalone BD player to test it on. So I am not sure if the problem is PotPlayer or the disc.

[smrpix]

A couple of thoughts.

If you have Premiere you should also have Encore. Encore's playlist function does what you're looking for.

Also, unless you have one of the pricey software players you won't be able to test the navigation on a BR on your computer. You really need a standalone player.

[smrpix]

A couple of thoughts.

If you have Premiere you should also have Encore. Encore's playlist function does what you're looking for.

Also, unless you have one of the pricey software players you won't be able to test and trust the navigation on a BR on your computer. You really need a standalone player.

[SameSelf]

A couple of thoughts.

If you have Premiere you should also have Encore. Encore's playlist function does what you're looking for.

Also, unless you have one of the pricey software players you won't be able to test the navigation on a BR on your computer. You really need a standalone player.

Yes, I have Encore, but Adobe has deprecated Encore, so I am in the process of evaluating a newer authoring tool.

Thanks for the heads up on not being able to adequately test the navigation on a computer. I suspected as much. I will probably head out to the nearest Best Buy to test my BD-RE in them. Mainly because I want to see just how compatible it is with various players as ultimately I am preparing these as Christmas gifts.

[DB83]

^^ I do appreciate that you are attempting to author a BD and not a DVD but there are a lot of comments in this topic specific to dvd only.

And it does seem that there is s/w what can handle this issue you have for BD via simple playlists. So I do not think my comments are entirely wasted.

[_Al_]

Maybe it is just specific DVD Architect version with this bug, not responding to "next" button in simulation, or it really does not respond to "next" on remote. It had happened before that some features are broken and fixed later on with other releases. But it always should be tested on real BD and Blu-Ray player, that's the ultimate test before trying to fix things, as was also mentioned in here. I was doing exactly the same in early BD testing attempts (BDMV onto DVD though), creating different DVD versions and I visited Best-Buy sticking it into 3 different players and getting feedback.