Cropping Videos is a Nightmare

[Muze Twelve]

Is there anyone willing to help me? I have the file, it's like 2 minutes long and it just needs cropped. In Movie Maker those awful black bars just cannot be removed in all of the software I've tried online. And when it does remove something, it stretches it and makes everything look off. I know there's a way to do this without messing up the actual file.

The file I have is in MKV. If anyone has the superior cropping tools that I simply do not have or let alone can find anywhere for free, please just let me know. I really would like to get this resolved.

[Baldrick]

Vidcoder, open video, under Settings->Picture and Cropping, Top & Bottom. But no live preview.


Xmedia Recode, open video, choose format: Matroska video, under Filters/Preview click on crop, crop with a preview, Add to queue. Encode.


Avidemux, open video, under Video choose mpeg4 avc (x264), click Filters, Transform, Crop, crop with preview. Under Output format choose mkv. Last save as a new mkv.

[manono]

And unless the resulting cropped video is exactly the aspect ratio of whatever it is you watch it on (television, computer monitor, etc.) the player will just put those awful black bars back on (or stretch the video if the player is set up incorrectly). So what's the point? You've then reencoded your video, degrading it in the process, for no reason at all.

[Baldrick]

So just zoom in the video player...

[Muze Twelve]

I'll try those. I hope it works. I'll get back to you and let you know. Is that software free? No watermarks of anything?

[Baldrick]

They are all free. No watermarks. No adware installers.

But are you sure you want to crop? You might have 2.35:1 video that SHOULD contain black borders....as manono mentions.

[Muze Twelve]

This is a 2 minute clip. It's got no sound, it's a deleted scene but one with which I've been having considerable trouble with.

This is the first one I did, actually the very first.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnc2Nzb5S2g

Note to two scenes with the black bars all around. The scene where they're all at lunch, at a table and the scene where Bonnie just turns around from a mirror.

This is the cropped video with the black bars taken out and re-edited.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5OXi40RdlQ

But in those two scenes it's very stretched.

In my Movie Maker right now, I don't know what I did or even how I did it, but I now have the second scene, the one where she just turns around without the black bars and nothing is stretched. It's the scene where they're all at a restaurant that I am trying to get fixed.

The only video on my YT channel taken from a DVD and ripped using MakeMKV is the one entitled Shadow Play. Currently I'm hoping to use MakeMKV for re-editing all my videos. Since it seems to be far superior to the programs I had been using. Although the disc quality in some videos is better or worse than others.


Edit; I dl the Avidemux and followed your instructions but there was no "crop with preview" option. Just crop and there was no "save" option either. Are there more steps?

Edit again. Where is my video? Well. It took it out of its original folder and put the damn thing into Google Drive! WTF? How did it even do that?

[Muze Twelve]

I hope this works...

http://files.videohelp.com/u/245272/DS%201%20again.mkv

[manono]

Now I remember. You again! Yes, you're adding a 4:3 extra from a DVD to the 16:9 main video. You have to both crop and resize. Because the extra isn't of decent quality it won't look as good as the main movie after you're done, but it's certainly easy enough to get it into the correct size and aspect ratio for joining with the other clips.

In your first version with the black bars on all sides you managed to chop off the top and bottom. I guess you did that on purpose but you then didn't resize it to be the same size as the rest but added black bars instead. Maybe the inferior program you used did that for you. After the crop it has to be resized correctly to match the rest.

[Muze Twelve]

Yeah I've been working on and off on this thing. Not just that one video but some others as well. This is the only one where I'm using 2 deleted scenes in though.

I don't know how it added the side black bars back, but like I said, in my MM right now, I still have the project saved and with edits added in, transitions and more scenes added, and I have the second scene perfectly. No black bars at all and there's no stretching. So something worked alright. But it's the "at lunch" scene that I'm now trying to fix up.

Also the picture quality on the disc isn't bad at all. It was just never added into the theatrical release. Did that link I posted of the file actually work? Can you grab it?

The cropping tool I used at the time was Vegas Pro and I'm holding onto the dl link for it, if I need it in an emergency, because you only get 1 month to have it for free, so I don't have it downloaded atm.

I'll try one of those other links but the avidemux one was just not cropping anything, it just sat there and I followed the steps he listed.

[manono]

Yes, I got it easily enough. Would you like someone to do something with it? If so, what exactly?

[Muze Twelve]

Yes. Take the black bars off of it. If you put it in MM, you'll see them. They don't seem to show up in some of the cropping tools. But they are there. I just need like 10 seconds out of that 2 minutes. But of course I had to grab the entire 2 minutes off the disc selection of that scene.

[mike20021969]

Vidcoder, open video, under Settings->Picture and Cropping, Top & Bottom. But no live preview.

You have an instant preview as a still shot... which is faster than waiting for HandBrake to render a few seconds worth of video.

[manono]

Yes. Take the black bars off of it.

It has no black bars. And no one seriously into video work uses Movie Maker.

I'll try again; what final resolution do you want? What resolution did you make of the parts from the main movie? Did you really take a 720x480 DVD source and blow it up to 1920x1080? And give it the wrong 29.97fps framerate? What format do you want it in? Some sort of MP4, MKV, lossless AVI, XviD AVI, MPG, what?

But of course I had to grab the entire 2 minutes off the disc selection of that scene.

You could have easily grabbed as much or as little of the scene as you wanted.

[Muze Twelve]

It has no black bars. And no one seriously into video work uses Movie Maker.

I'll try again; what final resolution do you want? What resolution did you make of the parts from the main movie? Did you really take a 720x480 DVD source and blow it up to 1920x1080? And give it the wrong 29.97fps framerate? What format do you want it in? Some sort of MP4, MKV, lossless AVI, XviD AVI, MPG, what?

You could have easily grabbed as much or as little of the scene as you wanted.

*sigh*

Yes it does have black bars. They're showing up in MM. No, I do not know why.

1. I did nothing to any fps. I just used a typical ripping program, to grab the video. I have no idea why it put it at that fps rate nor do I know why it put it as 1920x1080. It just did! That's what I have to work with.

And this whole "serious" and "MM" business. I am serious about making good videos and MM has been the only editing software that I have and that I know. That is all I have to work with. I also like that it's not linear, so I like the way it handles. It's easy to use. It's easy to understand and there is a way to get it to put out the file without reencoding it. So I've heard.

Yes I'd like it in a format that has the best quality, so I'm guessing that would be MKV. Or that lossless AVI.

2. No, I could not have just grabbed only 10 seconds off of it. I used MakeMKV to grab the scene from. It only allows you to grab off chapters from a disc, not little pieces from scenes inside those chapters.


Question: is there any way to save an ISO file (which I am told is the raw video source, no flaws, etc) to a file that can be edited in MM?

[smrpix]

Are you getting pillarbox bars on the sides of the image? (DS1 again.mkv)

That's because the file is from the full-frame 35mm negative which has a ~4:3 aspect ratio. In normal theatrical projection the top and bottom of the frame would be cropped off to 1.85:1. No important information is in the top and bottom of the frame (and sometimes that area might contain microphones and lights which are not meant to be seen.)

Crop away if you like. You're not ruining the creator's intentions.

The full frame version would often be used on old tv broadcasts.

[manono]

*sigh*

Yes it does have black bars.

Look, this isn't a difference of opinion or a question of interpretation. It has no black bars. I'll include a picture at the bottom of this post showing how the 720x480 extra is stored on the DVD.

They're showing up in MM.

I've already said that no one with any serious intent uses that program.

No, I do not know why.

Just guessing, but maybe it is adding black bars because you're trying to integrate it with the other footage. Or maybe you're using some sort of a widescreen template.

1. I did nothing to any fps.

Okay, but the YouTube video is 29.97fps and the MKV you made available is 23.976fps (making allowance for MediaInfo not being completely accurate). Ignoring the slowdown stuff you did, in the opening shot of cars in the distance, every fifth frame is a repeat of the one before. A different way to get 29.97fps from the source 23.976fps was done elsewhere. For example, when Michael J. Pollard sits down with Faye and Warren, of every five frames, three are 'clean' and two are blended.

2. No, I could not have just grabbed only 10 seconds off of it.

Again with the arguments. Yes, you could have. You could have said you didn't know how, but instead you said it's not possible. It's not only possible but simple. One way is to open the VOB containing the extra in DGIndex, use the [ and ] buttons to isolate the part you want followed by File->Save Project and Demux Video. The resulting M2V is your cut version. Or MPEG2Cut2 used similarly can do it to make an MPG. You seem to be married to these programs which sometimes aren't the right tools for the job.

Question: is there any way to save an ISO file (which I am told is the raw video source, no flaws, etc) to a file that can be edited in MM?

Maybe someone else can answer that one, but I doubt you'll want to make an ISO. It's easy enough to make an MPG or M2V. But if it won't open VOBs, I doubt it'll open them either.

Crop away if you like. You're not ruining the creator's intentions.

I suspect the extra was made from the widescreen version. If you note the part in her YouTube video from that extra (not included in your edit), heads are cut off and it seems way too claustrophobic. That is, I think the vertical portion of the extra is shown as it was meant to be seen. There's no room for cutting from top and bottom.

[smrpix]

I suspect the extra was made from the widescreen version. If you note the part in her YouTube video from that extra (not included in your edit), heads are cut off and it seems way too claustrophobic. That is, I think the vertical portion of the extra is shown as it was meant to be seen. There's no room for cutting from top and bottom.

I disagree with you here, looking at the whole clip it looks very much like typical unmasked full-frame to me. But until someone comes along with a definitive answer we can chase this one in circles.

[Muze Twelve]

I've already said that no one with any serious intent uses that program.

And I already said that that was what I used, and what I am using and the black bars are there. If you put that clip in MM you'll see it too, unless the rip is somehow taking them off. But in MM, they are still on my end. I don't have any other editing software. And MM is okay. It's just the container. It does actually make decent videos if I can get a good rip. That MakeMKV is, so far, the best one I've used so far.

AVStoDVD is actually the best for straight up copying a movie (but that's different when all you want is just the movie - and not making music videos from movies) and it was Baldrick who introduced me to AVStoDVD.

Or maybe you're using some sort of a widescreen template.

All I know is that they're there and if they're there in that, they will show up on YT.

Okay, but the YouTube video is 29.97fps and the MKV you made available is 23.976fps (making allowance for MediaInfo not being completely accurate). Ignoring the slowdown stuff you did, in the opening shot of cars in the distance, every fifth frame is a repeat of the one before. A different way to get 29.97fps from the source 23.976fps was done elsewhere. For example, when Michael J. Pollard sits down with Faye and Warren, of every five frames, three are 'clean' and two are blended.

Again, I have no idea why it did any of that. I didn't do anything other than rip and then placed the file into MM and began editing the scenes together with the music.

Again with the arguments. Yes, you could have. You could have said you didn't know how, but instead you said it's not possible.

I was correct. In MakeMKV, what I used to rip the scene from the disc with, there was no way to grab only one part of a scene. You have the choice to choose chapters only. Not anything within the scenes themselves.

One way is to open the VOB containing the extra in DGIndex

Except I don't have this DGIndex. I have the MakeMKV program which I used to grab that scene from. I really don't understand why you have to argue with me.

You seem to be married to these programs which sometimes aren't the right tools for the job.

No, I seem to be someone who isn't that advanced in the know-how of how a lot of this stuff works.

I want to use MM because it's easy and I like the layout of the editing template. I can see my work as it progresses. If there's a superior program that does much better and has the same format and transitions, please do let me know. Oh and it being free would really help. MM came free with my Windows OS.

Nice screenshot of the Bonnie & Clyde scene. Crystal clear quality. It's not that bad of a copy. I used MakeMKV.

I've been in and out all weekend and I probably won't get a chance to really do anything until Monday I think. So then I will look into trying to fix this problem.

[Muze Twelve]

Are you getting pillarbox bars on the sides of the image? (DS1 again.mkv)

That's because the file is from the full-frame 35mm negative which has a ~4:3 aspect ratio. In normal theatrical projection the top and bottom of the frame would be cropped off to 1.85:1. No important information is in the top and bottom of the frame (and sometimes that area might contain microphones and lights which are not meant to be seen.)

Crop away if you like. You're not ruining the creator's intentions.

The full frame version would often be used on old tv broadcasts.

Thanks, I will grab that when I can and take a look.

[Muze Twelve]

Well apparently there is a "custom setting" to Movie Maker. So I put in the 23.976 fps option and such. I haven't tested the one Bonnie & Clyde scene with it though. Maybe it just might work. I'll have to get back to you all on that.

[ZikO]

You seem to be married to these programs which sometimes aren't the right tools for the job.

No, I seem to be someone who isn't that advanced in the know-how of how a lot of this stuff works.

The level of patience that manono has given you is incredible. I am surprised he still wants to help. Anyway, everyone here was in this situation like you. You either need to follow the suggestions and make your hands dirty with trying, testing, making errors / mistakes and using different programs, but learning or simply stick to a program which will do everything for you. If MovieMaker doesn't help you, don't you think you need something else? When manono said nobody uses MM, he meant it and I understand why because it does weird things behind scenes!

I want to use MM because it's easy and I like the layout of the editing template. I can see my work as it progresses. If there's a superior program that does much better and has the same format and transitions, please do let me know. Oh and it being free would really help. MM came free with my Windows OS.

Nice screenshot of the Bonnie & Clyde scene. Crystal clear quality. It's not that bad of a copy. I used MakeMKV.

I've been in and out all weekend and I probably won't get a chance to really do anything until Monday I think. So then I will look into trying to fix this problem.

There is Any to Video (the link). Even free version can convert almost from anything to everything. I haven't tried it. My friend has and he's happy.

[Muze Twelve]

Ziko, you don't need to be snarky. Okay. I'm not holding a gun to anyone's head. I didn't tell him what to do. His contribution is totally up to him. It's not like I'm forcing him to help me with anything. And I have tried lots of his suggestions. This is just a weird sort of situation because it isn't all one disc. There is a reason why I'm using MM. It might be doing weird things, but I have heard time and time again that there are ways around that. Further, give this a look; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFJiE0MlxDo

And I have explained why I'd rather use it, than look for something that just won't do what it does. It's not about getting "hands dirty" and trying different things. I would if there existed a program for free that does what MM does and when I have an excellent rip of something, it actually does quite an exceptional copy. There's a way to customize it as well, as I am figuring out.

With all this in mind, I wish you and that guy would understand where I'm coming from.

My topic here, is about cropping something. As I have the second deleted scene perfectly but cannot remember how I did the trick. Both scenes are from the same disc, with the same specs. He says there are no black bars on it, but in MM they do show up.

I was, as I was saying, able to get the one scene without the bars blended right in with the rest of the main movie scenes. It's just that other one I'm trying to get fixed.

And I have that AnyDVD converter already. I don't know if the link you have there is an updated version, but back in August I got that program from Staples. I had to order it and it came in a link to my email. It was not the AnyDVD program that I thought it was. But anyway, I have the one you linked to. It has the same icon/logo and everything.

And for some reason, the cropping tool on it isn't working for me. I don't know why.

So, to cover all the bases here. I want to use MM because I know it can do well. I know it does weird crap behind the scenes but with the right footage, those things hardly matter if I get a great picture as can be expected depending on the disc's original quality. I wish they would update it and make it better and let you have control over what is being encoded and what isn't. They may yet do this type of update. So maybe I can wait it out? It just seems like that would be an option. Not a good one, but something to have in the back of my mind.

If there is another editing program, free and has the layout similar to MM and has the same features and allows you to work on something and see what you're doing and that doesn't reencode anything from the raw MakeMKV files ripped from a movie, by all means...let me know. I will gladly try that out.

[ZikO]

I watched the video. My impression is the guy works for Microsoft. Therefore, he couldn't really criticised MovieMaker--it is a Microsoft product, isnt it? However, i did not sense he would strongly encourage to use this program. He defended it and said what he must have said meaning with correct settings MM will provide a good quality video which I believe is true.

I have a final general suggestion regarding cropping and I know you will argue about it but my feeling is there is no better choice in terms of free programs than AviSynth framework and free tools that accept it.

At the beginning, you will find a lot of troubles with it. However, once your footage is handled by AviSynth, you will gain absolutely FULL control over everything you need. In AviSynth, you can trim, crop, add black bars and pilars, apply filters, scale, upsize, shrink, change colors, anything and everything. There are multiple free programs that can read AviSynth scripts and show the processed footage, such as VirtualDub. They are self contained programs. Another one is AvsPmod, an AviSynth editor, but it has to be installed. Most AllInOne converter will accept AVS scripts and convert such prepared footage into anything you want.

I really cannot give you more than this as you have already chosen something I am not even trying to touch. Hope you get what you want.

[Muze Twelve]

Why would I argue with a link to a free program? I have tried every single program that people have given me links to, like MakeMKV for example. You got me all wrong and you're assuming what my take on free progs are. I will try anything that works. That's why I'm here. To get help with this stuff. I just don't have anything near as well to use for video editing as I do with MM. That's not to say that I won't try other software. Chill.

And btw MM does not crop. So I'm not sure what you mean by I really cannot give you more than this as you have already chosen because the issue I'm having with this thing currently is a cropping issue, yes. Not an editing issue. It's just the footage have those black bars on it. I don't know how I did the other scene but at the time I was testing Vegas Pro. I don't have it installed now, I uninstalled it and saved the app for later on in case of an emergency. The reason being is that it won't let you have it longer than a month.

[ZikO]

Why would I argue with a link to a free program?

I don't know. Why would you? I referred to general approach, not a single application.

I have tried every single program that people have given me links to, like MakeMKV for example.

You clearly haven't tried the right one and MM or MakeMKV do not seem to work for you! Perhaps you should ask different question in a new thread. How about that?

You got me all wrong and you're assuming what my take on free progs are. I will try anything that works. That's why I'm here. To get help with this stuff. I just don't have anything near as well to use for video editing as I do with MM. That's not to say that I won't try other software. Chill.

I think the only person who loses one's temper here is you. So it's not me who should Chill. You have already been given a suggestion on video editing. You either fail to read or just refuse to accept it.

And btw MM does not crop.

Does it not? Well, it probably does the opposite!

So I'm not sure what you mean by I really cannot give you more than this as you have already chosen because the issue I'm having with this thing currently is a cropping issue, yes. Not an editing issue. It's just the footage have those black bars on it. I don't know how I did the other scene but at the time I was testing Vegas Pro. I don't have it installed now, I uninstalled it and saved the app for later on in case of an emergency. The reason being is that it won't let you have it longer than a month.

What I meant by I really cannot give you more than this as you have already chosen is exactly what it says in the previous post including the whole context.
As to editing problem, you should read my previous post again or even better the whole thread. You have a lot of info here.

[smrpix]

Vegas starts its clock running when you initially install it. Unless you reformat your hard drive or install the trial of a newer version you can't "bank" your trial period.

But Vegas is a good choice here -- even the $40 movie studio version will do what you need.

[Muze Twelve]

I don't know. Why would you? I referred to general approach, not a single application.

It was a rhetorical question. And obviously you seem to think I would be against trying new software for free. You sure have some issue with my using MM, that's for sure.

You clearly haven't tried the right one and MM or MakeMKV do not seem to work for you! Perhaps you should ask different question in a new thread. How about that?

Wrong. MM and MakeMKV do work for me. My topic here is about cropping which neither MM or MakeMKV do. Do you get that now? I have a file in MM right now that has one of the scenes already done perfectly from those two scenes. I was making this topic about cropping. Not about MM or MakeMKV. Do you not get that?

And...

Make another thread about cropping even thought this one is about cropping? What exactly is this? What exactly is your issue with me?

You got me all wrong and you're assuming what my take on free progs are. I will try anything that works. That's why I'm here. To get help with this stuff. I just don't have anything near as well to use for video editing as I do with MM. That's not to say that I won't try other software. Chill.

I think the only person who loses one's temper here is you. So it's not me who should Chill. You have already been given a suggestion on video editing. You either fail to read or just refuse to accept it.

WTF???? Really are you just trolling here? Where are you getting that I lost any temper here? If someone expresses frustration at being misunderstood like you clearly have done here, that's not the same thing and you have some problem with the fact I'm using MM as I mentioned above. Why? You're the one who got snarky with the comment about someone else having patience. As if I was making someone post here. You're the one having some kind of problem with my using MM and there's absolutely no reason for you to do that. No, you need to chill. You come across as someone who was angry that I wasn't ditching MM. You need to accept that I'm using that program because it does work for my editing needs. Why can't you understand that?

Does it not? Well, it probably does the opposite!

Oooookay. So what value was that? Was that input really necessary? You're just posting here to ramble on.

What I meant by I really cannot give you more than this as you have already chosen is exactly what it says in the previous post including the whole context.
As to editing problem, you should read my previous post again or even better the whole thread. You have a lot of info here.

And yet what? What info have you given me? You came here and started off with a snarky comment which was meant to belittle me. Then proceeded to just give me a link or two. Then you hassle me about MM.

I don't really have any info from you because all you did was give me a hard time, number one about using MM, which I happen to like how it edits and the transitions and the features there. The link you gave me to AnyDVD is also the cheap knock-off software, not the actual AnyDVD I was hoping that Staples was selling. As another member can be quoted as saying;

It would appear that the people using that title succeeded in misleading you, they way they had hoped by wording the name of the title of the software "Any DVD Converter Professional DVDConvPro". AnyDVD is a decrypter as orsetto stated and has no conversion intentions built in.
I do see that "Any DVD Converter Professional DVDConvPro" is listed on the Staples site, but I believe you were mislead by the title.

You linked me to the Slysoft program which is not on par with the AnyDVD program that I was originally looking for back in August. So you basically linked me to a program that someone else already informed me was a cheap knock-off program inferior to the AnyDVD by (I think) Sony. And since I do already have that program I can definitely attest to the fact that it is not all it's cracked up to be.

Now please take your anger with me and leave the topic since you don't know that it's a cropping issue here. Not a MM issue. And can you please just accept the fact I will be using MM until I can find something to works better and does the same things this program does. I have tried other editing software and MM is just something I happen to like the way it functions, even though it has its flaws. I really don't know how much clearer I can make myself about this. You've already basically come in here and got all indignant with me, accused me of losing my temper and misreading everything I say. I think you've lost your cool when you decided to jump in the middle with all feathers flying and got on my case. I have been calm and explained my position. My reasons. My situation. If I had lost my temper, I'd just have said screw you all. I never once did that and tolerated your giving me stuff that really isn't productive here. So I say, yes, do chill.

To reiterate; my reasons for using MM is because...

#1 It's a free program that came with Windows on my laptop. I like free stuff. Who doesn't?

#2 I have used it, found it simple to operate and learned new techniques and honed my skill in music videos with timing to the music and film.

#3 I know that it can put out excellent film footage when I burn to DVD. How do I know? Because I've seen it with my own eyes. Depending of the disc itself, and the quality of said disc, I have noted that I get almost a perfect copy even with all the edits, transitions, etc. I just happen to have some other issues with other stuff. Like cropping, which is why I created this subject.

#4 I have tried other editing software and it was too confusing, it wasn't as precise, and it didn't make any copy onto DVD better than MM. It was about the same if it was a shitty disc. My husband and I will sometimes buy cheap DVDs from stores like Big Lots and some of my videos do come from that place so I know not every disc is going to be the same quality as a disc from a special order from somewhere like a shop that deals only in movies.

Now, I have given, again, my reasons for using MM. I know it can do the job. I just needed a crop of one little deleted scene. That's all. Stop hassling me.

[Muze Twelve]

Vegas starts its clock running when you initially install it. Unless you reformat your hard drive or install the trial of a newer version you can't "bank" your trial period.

But Vegas is a good choice here -- even the $40 movie studio version will do what you need.

Thank you, smrpix. Your post is helpful. I appreciate it. I am so glad that not everyone feels a need to question, argue, berate me for my issue I have here with a cropping of a scene. Also Vegas Pro, they have other versions. But I did uninstall it, and put it back on and it started back at the 30 days statement. Then I uninstalled it again. So maybe it reset it somehow? But I saving the original link so I can use it again. If Staples or Office Depot sells this program that would also help. But I've never seen it in any of those stores and I have gift cards for both those stores. I have gift cards from last xmas that I didn't spend all of the amount on them (mainly because they didn't have anything I wanted at the time) and I would hope they would sell those programs.

Anyway, I thank you for being helpful.

[ZikO]

You linked me to the Slysoft program ...

You are very mistaken. I have never given you any link to AnyDVD by Slysoft. The link I provided was to AnyToVideo Converter (AVC), a commercial product in the end, which converts between video formats for free. It's completely different program and your whole argument on that about me is flawed.

That means there is some problems with understanding or reading posts here. You realise it takes time to read posts and then give an answer. I am going to leave this topic not because I am angry or anything you have just mentioned, I am leaving it because I don't like waisting my time.