help with file wanting to burn to bluray

[mulliganman]

Newbie here and not sure where to post this question. I have a file recorded in Lagarith lossless format. When checking the file I saw it is 40GB. The bluray blank discs I have are only 25 GB so I have a bit of a dilemma here. I am not sure what should be done to reduce the file size and still keep as high of quality as possible. Add to that I have never burned a bluray disc before and I am sort of at a loss as to what to do. I will need to cut out a little bit but then thinking of trying to use multiAVCH to create menus etc. and then burn using IMG Burn. What would be the best and not extremely complicated option?

Would I have been better off burning in say mp4-h64 and then converting to .m2ts format before burning?

Time taken to help out a newbie here would be greatly appreciated (and please assume I know nothing in any responses. I won't be offended )

[Cornucopia]

Are you:
1. Burning the file as "generic data" to archive/store the file?
or
2. Burning the file to be authored & playable in standard, set-top Blu-ray players?

If #1, your choices are:
A. Get a bigger disc size (50GB Dual Layer, or 66/100/128 BDXL disc).
B. Compress to a smaller format (and lose a little bit of quality) to fit.
C. Split the file (using HJsplit or similar) into 2 sections, putting each section on its own disc (understanding that it must be first put back together to be fully usable). Similar to Zip or Rar disc spanning.

If #2, you MUST first convert/re-compress anyway in order for it to be HDMV (Blu-ray) playback-compatible, and that most likely will bring it down to fit within your capacity constraint. Since Lagarith is roughly ~200-275Mbps and AVC (most common & efficient codec used in Blu-ray playback) is only compliant up to BD's 40Mbps max (for 2D), that means 200/40=5x drop in size. So your 40GB current file would end up being ~8GB.
It will, of course, lose some quality, but because of AVC's efficient psycho-visual lossy nature, it might not be that noticeable.

Since you mention multiAVCHD and menus, I'm guessing the latter is your choice.

Going the mp4/h264 ->m2ts route is OK as long as this doesn't incur and additional generation of re-encoding. And make sure that the parameters you use for the mp4/h264 are ALREADY fully Blu-ray compliant, so the re-wrapping/authoring-to-BD goes smoothly.

Scott

[mulliganman]

Are you:
1. Burning the file as "generic data" to archive/store the file?
or
2. Burning the file to be authored & playable in standard, set-top Blu-ray players?

If #1, your choices are:
A. Get a bigger disc size (50GB Dual Layer, or 66/100/128 BDXL disc).
B. Compress to a smaller format (and lose a little bit of quality) to fit.
C. Split the file (using HJsplit or similar) into 2 sections, putting each section on its own disc (understanding that it must be first put back together to be fully usable). Similar to Zip or Rar disc spanning.

If #2, you MUST first convert/re-compress anyway in order for it to be HDMV (Blu-ray) playback-compatible, and that most likely will bring it down to fit within your capacity constraint. Since Lagarith is roughly ~200-275Mbps and AVC (most common & efficient codec used in Blu-ray playback) is only compliant up to BD's 40Mbps max (for 2D), that means 200/40=5x drop in size. So your 40GB current file would end up being ~8GB.
It will, of course, lose some quality, but because of AVC's efficient psycho-visual lossy nature, it might not be that noticeable.

Since you mention multiAVCHD and menus, I'm guessing the latter is your choice.

Going the mp4/h264 ->m2ts route is OK as long as this doesn't incur and additional generation of re-encoding. And make sure that the parameters you use for the mp4/h264 are ALREADY fully Blu-ray compliant, so the re-wrapping/authoring-to-BD goes smoothly.

Scott

Thank you so much for replying! First let me say this. Right now I am thinking with my recordings I am going to create 2 copies (one for playback within a media player like Kodi/Plex and another on a bluray disc). Now with that being said let me try to first clarify regarding #1 or #2. I am not intending to archive as in to keep for a long time like 20 years or whatever. I am looking to create a bluray disc that can be played in a bluray player and hopefully last a while (and reburn if necessary if the orginal burn to disc goes bad at some point).

To that end, I had been told that if I were to do any editing to the video file that after it has been edited to my liking then I need to convert the video to .m2ts format for simple burning to a bluray disc.

As I have been exploring/researching programs, etc. to accomplish that I learned that you could possibly make a disc with a background image and a menu. I ran across a video on youtube of someone showing how they used multiAVCHD to do this a create a pretty nice looking BD menu setup for a football game he had a video file/recording of. So I started considering doing that. I am still deciding if I want to burn a disc with the menus or just a simple burn using IMG Burn without the menu options. I will definitely be using IMG Burn to do the bluray writing for me no matter what I decide about whether to author with menus or not.

Regarding the re-compression I think I may need some clarification. I understand that no matter what I choose it will reduce the file size (which is great news). Is the 8GB estimate still accurate if the original file is converted to .m2ts format?

The mp4/h264 to .m2ts route is probably something I really need additional explanation on. You said it is OK if "it doesn't incur additional generation of re-encoding." I'm not quite sure what that means. Nor do I understand how to "make sure the parameters you use for the mp4/h64 are ALREADY fully bluray complaing, so the re-wrapping/authoring-to-BD goes smoothly." It may be a stupid question but I'm not sure how to do that. Can you explain that please in terms a beginner like myself can understand? The whole question about that conversion method really came about as considering a method of getting a smaller file size for burning while still getting very good to exceptional playback quality on a BD disc. So I am not even sure if that route will provide that. Do you know if it will? I chose to originally record in lagarith thinking the final product would be better after the conversion and burn. The question is if using lagarith for the original recording ends up being noticeably better having the original recording in a different format before converting to .m2ts for burning to BD?

One last question: Is VideoRedo TVSuite that much better than any other options for editing out unwanted footage/commercials/etc. given what I have described above? I simply don't know but do see it seems to be highly rated here. I did notice that Free Video Editor is supposed to edit out without re-encoding.

I hope this all makes sense. I sincerely apologize if anything I have asked is a stupid question. I really just don't know and am trying to learn.

[manono]

Is the 8GB estimate still accurate if the original file is converted to .m2ts format?

I may have missed it but I see no mention elsewhere of 8GB. I'll assume you got this estimate somewhere else. You can make it any size you like. The bitrate chosen determines the final size. If you do a quality-based encode, then there's no way to tell in advance what size you'll get, especially as you have provided no details about the video in question, not even its length. But even that should be way smaller than your source.

You said it is OK if "it doesn't incur additional generation of re-encoding." I'm not quite sure what that means.

He means lossy encoding degrades the final video so do it as few times as possible. If you're going to make an intermediate file (with the edits and anything else you might want to do), make it lossless as well. Otherwise go straight from what you have now to the final format. You won't want to make an MP4 intermediate file. You might want to make one for Plex/Kodi, though, but not on the way to reencoding for Blu-Ray.

"make sure the parameters you use for the mp4/h64 are ALREADY fully bluray complaing, so the re-wrapping/authoring-to-BD goes smoothly."

Use some sort of Blu-Ray template when reencoding for Blu-Ray. If it's not 100% compliant it may not play in your Blu-Ray player. I don't make Blu-Rays myself but assume multiAVCHD will do that job for you.

The whole question about that conversion method really came about as considering a method of getting a smaller file size for burning while still getting very good to exceptional playback quality on a BD disc.

You'll wind up with a much smaller file size given that your source is a lossless AVI.

I can't answer the VideoRedo question. Others can, I'm sure.

[mulliganman]

Is the 8GB estimate still accurate if the original file is converted to .m2ts format?

I may have missed it but I see no mention elsewhere of 8GB. I'll assume you got this estimate somewhere else. You can make it any size you like. The bitrate chosen determines the final size. If you do a quality-based encode, then there's no way to tell in advance what size you'll get, especially as you have provided no details about the video in question, not even its length. But even that should be way smaller than your source.

You said it is OK if "it doesn't incur additional generation of re-encoding." I'm not quite sure what that means.

He means lossy encoding degrades the final video so do it as few times as possible. If you're going to make an intermediate file (with the edits and anything else you might want to do), make it lossless as well. Otherwise go straight from what you have now to the final format. You won't want to make an MP4 intermediate file. You might want to make one for Plex/Kodi, though, but not on the way to reencoding for Blu-Ray.

"make sure the parameters you use for the mp4/h64 are ALREADY fully bluray complaing, so the re-wrapping/authoring-to-BD goes smoothly."

Use some sort of Blu-Ray template when reencoding for Blu-Ray. If it's not 100% compliant it may not play in your Blu-Ray player. I don't make Blu-Rays myself but assume multiAVCHD will do that job for you.

The whole question about that conversion method really came about as considering a method of getting a smaller file size for burning while still getting very good to exceptional playback quality on a BD disc.

You'll wind up with a much smaller file size given that your source is a lossless AVI.

I can't answer the VideoRedo question. Others can, I'm sure.

Mano,

Thanks for responding! The 8GB came from the 2nd post on an estimate from that user about what would the size be taking the Lagarith recording now and converting to .m2ts. If you tell me exactly what I need to do to give you the information you asked about the file in question I will be happy to do it. The recording was right at an hour. I can check the details if you tell me what to do when I get home from work.

[manono]

Oh, it was from Cornucopia's post. I wasn't checking that when trying to figure out where the 8GB estimate came from. His will certainly be a 'ballpark' figure.

An hour-long video will have no problem fitting on a 25GB Blu-Ray disc at top quality. I'm not entirely sure multiAVCHD will accept a Lagarith AVI as input, but you'll never know 'till you try. It doesn't seem to have a quality-based mode (although I could be wrong), so you'll fill in the final size you want yourself. 8,000 or 10,000 MiB should be good. Good luck.

[mulliganman]

Is the 8GB estimate still accurate if the original file is converted to .m2ts format?

I may have missed it but I see no mention elsewhere of 8GB. I'll assume you got this estimate somewhere else. You can make it any size you like. The bitrate chosen determines the final size. If you do a quality-based encode, then there's no way to tell in advance what size you'll get, especially as you have provided no details about the video in question, not even its length. But even that should be way smaller than your source.

You said it is OK if "it doesn't incur additional generation of re-encoding." I'm not quite sure what that means.

He means lossy encoding degrades the final video so do it as few times as possible. If you're going to make an intermediate file (with the edits and anything else you might want to do), make it lossless as well. Otherwise go straight from what you have now to the final format. You won't want to make an MP4 intermediate file. You might want to make one for Plex/Kodi, though, but not on the way to reencoding for Blu-Ray.

"make sure the parameters you use for the mp4/h64 are ALREADY fully bluray complaing, so the re-wrapping/authoring-to-BD goes smoothly."

Use some sort of Blu-Ray template when reencoding for Blu-Ray. If it's not 100% compliant it may not play in your Blu-Ray player. I don't make Blu-Rays myself but assume multiAVCHD will do that job for you.

The whole question about that conversion method really came about as considering a method of getting a smaller file size for burning while still getting very good to exceptional playback quality on a BD disc.

You'll wind up with a much smaller file size given that your source is a lossless AVI.

I can't answer the VideoRedo question. Others can, I'm sure.

So when you said "If you're going to make an intermediate file (with the edits and anything else you might want to do), make it lossless as well" is making the cuts then putting it into .m2ts format for burning "lossless"? I'm not sure what I should be looking to convert to after editing? I am just asking about the .m2ts because I was told it was easy to burn to bluray using IMGBurn after your files are in that format.

Couple other questions here. Does anyone know any other formats I could record in using LiteCam HD that would also create a very good bluray copy but be smaller file says than the Lagarith codec? And finally, anyone out there got any suggestions about editing software? Is the VideoRedo TV Suite that much better than any other alternatives? I haven't looked very closely yet but had seen that Free Video editor is supposed to be able to edit without losing any video quality but don't how it compares to the Videoredo. If neither of these are a good option for what I will do please share. In addition, any you think would

[manono]

So when you said "If you're going to make an intermediate file (with the edits and anything else you might want to do), make it lossless as well" is making the cuts then putting it into .m2ts format for burning "lossless"?

M2TS isn't lossless, but it's your final format. Or had better be. You just don't want to make a lossy file that is then reencoded for your M2TS, if you can avoid it. You're making your edits using something and I said it might be best to save it out as another lossless file, before then reencoding for your final Blu-Ray video. If you can make your edits and export as Blu-Ray compliant video (which I don't believe you can using your current methods), then fine.

I can't help with your editing software questions as all my work is done using AviSynth. Others can help, though, if they're so inclined.

[mulliganman]

So when you said "If you're going to make an intermediate file (with the edits and anything else you might want to do), make it lossless as well" is making the cuts then putting it into .m2ts format for burning "lossless"?

M2TS isn't lossless, but it's your final format. Or had better be. You just don't want to make a lossy file that is then reencoded for your M2TS, if you can avoid it. You're making your edits using something and I said it might be best to save it out as another lossless file, before then reencoding for your final Blu-Ray video. If you can make your edits and export as Blu-Ray compliant video (which I don't believe you can using your current methods), then fine.

I can't help with your editing software questions as all my work is done using AviSynth. Others can help, though, if they're so inclined.

O.K. So it looks like taking my lossless 1 hour recording I mentioned in the beginning of the thread and converting it to .m2ts format using Video to Video Converter brought the file size down to 2.96 GB. This was without any editing first. I just converted to see what kind of file size I could expect when converting from a Lagarith lossless recording to .m2ts in preparation for burning to bluray.

I could still use suggestions from anyone regarding an editor that will allow me to edit and keep the edited version in a lossless format. Suggestions are welcome!

[mulliganman]

Please ignore most of what has come before in this thread for simplicity's sake. I think I should be able to record with LiteCam HD with Lagarith, edit (hopefully without a loss in quality), and then convert to .m2ts and then burn using IMG Burn (with no bluray authoring software). The container for the lagarith recordings i believe is avi

But lets say I do want to author from the lossless Lagarith recordings, are there any suggestions regarding steps to follow in getting to the bluray disc creating with IMG Burn (i.e. what software to use for what in a chronological order to follow)?

[manono]

But lets say I do want to author from the lossless Lagarith recordings, are there any suggestions regarding steps to follow in getting to the bluray disc creating with IMG Burn (i.e. what software to use for what in a chronological order to follow)?

Isn't that what multiAVCHD does?

[mulliganman]

But lets say I do want to author from the lossless Lagarith recordings, are there any suggestions regarding steps to follow in getting to the bluray disc creating with IMG Burn (i.e. what software to use for what in a chronological order to follow)?

Isn't that what multiAVCHD does?

Yes it does create menus if that is what you are asking. My question may have been confusing. I gathered from comments earlier that what I suggested doing (taking recording in lagarith>editing without loss if possible>then converting that file to .m2ts >then loading into a bd authoring tool like AVCHD was wrong based on some comments earlier (I thought you were saying that what I was discussing wouldn't work because of program limitations or incompatibilites because of recording format or some other reason). So that is why I asked if there is better progression sequence/modification to what I described in this paragraph that would be better if I do decide to do authoring with menus. Once I know that, then I need assistance/suggestions regarding the right editing tool and authoring for the menu creating, etc. (it appears there aren't a lot of guidance on the use of multiavchd so i would like to know good alternatives that will work the formats i will be dealing with)

[manono]

Yes it does create menus if that is what you are asking.

No, but by 'authoring' I'm assuming you mean both conversion/reencoding of both video and audio to be Blu-Ray compliant, then followed by the actual authoring, either with or without menus. That's my understanding of what multiAVCHD can do. You don't just 'author' a Lagarith AVI for Blu-Ray, not without converting it first. I mentioned I'm not entirely sure whether or not it'll accept a Lagarith AVI as input, but it claims to be able to use an AviSynth script (AVS input) so, if necessary, that's one way to get it to accept the Lagarith AVI. But I've never created a Blu-Ray disc in my life, so what do I know?

[hogger129]

Authoring it to Blu-ray? Drop it into mkvmergegui and then import the .mkv file into BDRB for burning to disc. Set it at the lowest speed setting for the most quality, set it for BD-25 output, let it run overnight.