The PC is Dead

[usually_quiet]

Well if laptops then have multiple hard drives, upgradable video cards, better cooling, more ventilated casing, etc, well, then they're not so much "laptop" anymore. They become part-desktop, which inherits them such advantages.

Surely though, all things being equal, even though your laptop can "do it", you know a desktop can "do it" just as good or better.

Regardless of how good a laptop might be, it is still a laptop and not actually a desktop pc, hence why i say that if you have the right laptop, it can be used as a desktop computer replacement, and that is primarily what this is all about, just as a Micro ATX desktop system in my opinion is a far better option than building a computer system in one of those stupid full size ATX Cases, and i never saw any logic in doing it like that, but it is personal preference.

And of coarse a Desktop can "do it" just as good as a an equivalent laptop, but certainly not necessarily better, it all depends on what laptop and desktop computer you are comparing, as both would have to be almost identical in Specs for any real comparison to be made.

There are some things that one cannot have in a laptop or a small PC. If someone wants a system built around an i7-5960X CPU, then they will have to get a desktop. There is also no laptop equivalent for most powerful gaming-oriented video cards. If someone wants a GeForce GTX TITAN, GTX 980 Ti, or Radeon R9 card for video gaming, then they will need a desktop. They are also likely to want an ATX motherboard and big ATX case. Some of these cards come with liquid cooling or take up 3 expansion slots or are 13 inches long.

I have 2 MATX systems (a MATX tower and an HTPC), mostly because I have a bad back and decided that I would rather not wrestle with a big, heavy case. However I can fully understand that for some, a large ATX build is the right choice. Some people do need or want more room, more expansion slots, or more drive bays, and a small case is not without drawbacks.

Finding a suitable PSU for a small MATX case can be problematic. When the time came to get a new PSU for the HTPC, there was only one good choice, and it was more expensive than a number of comparable ATX PSUs. Long PSU cables and any cable that isn't being used would be problematic in that case. Even if the cable length were not a problem, many ATX PSUs exceeded the 140mm depth limitation imposed by the case.

I can't install a liquid CPU cooler inside either of my current MATX cases. There is enough room for a fan but not a fan and a radiator. I can't use a big aftermarket air cooler either.

[budwzr]

I passed by "The Hat" over on Garfield and Valley. Got a pastrami dip and a chili cheese fry. Bomb!

[usually_quiet]

I passed by "The Hat" over on Garfield and Valley. Got a pastrami dip and a chili cheese fry. Bomb!

I predict your next post here will be "I farted."

[budwzr]

Very astute observation. Their chili fries are really greasy.

[SameSelf]

Bad, bad numbers: PC sales decline 8.3% in the fourth quarter. Probably the most trenchant comment in Gartner's report:

Holiday sales did not boost the overall PC shipments, hinting at changes to consumers’ PC purchase behavior.

Whoa! Is Gartner hinting at a post-PC era?

http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/3185224

[Tom Saurus]

I can only speak for myself on this issue but I think Windows 7 is excellent but these new versions of Windows from what I have read just are not appealing. So it puts a damper on the desire to get a new computer.

[usually_quiet]

Tablet sales are also down. http://www.cnet.com/news/computer-tablet-sales-grim-forecast-gets-worse/ I guess the tablet is dead too and the smart phone rules the world.

Here is a sane editorial on the subject: http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/buying-pc-death-hype-is-dangerous

[SameSelf]

Tablet sales are also down. http://www.cnet.com/news/computer-tablet-sales-grim-forecast-gets-worse/ I guess the tablet is dead too and the smart phone rules the world.

Here is a sane editorial on the subject: http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/buying-pc-death-hype-is-dangerous

Those are old links. World moves much faster than that now.

[usually_quiet]

Tablet sales are also down. http://www.cnet.com/news/computer-tablet-sales-grim-forecast-gets-worse/ I guess the tablet is dead too and the smart phone rules the world.

Here is a sane editorial on the subject: http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/buying-pc-death-hype-is-dangerous

Those are old links. World moves much faster than that now.

You are grasping at straws. They are not that old. One of those links is an editorial published in July 2015. That is 6 months old, and it's an editorial! The other was published in August 2015 and is predictive based on year to date sales. ...but here is one for October 2015 that says the same thing. http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20151006PD208.html

Everybody else participating in this thread but you seems able to understand that a decline in sales is to be expected in a mature product category when the market becomes saturated, innovation slows, and the product does not wear out within a couple of years. TV sales have slowed considerably, but the TV is not dead and innovation continues.

[hello_hello]

Bad, bad numbers: PC sales decline 8.3% in the fourth quarter. Probably the most trenchant comment in Gartner's report:

Holiday sales did not boost the overall PC shipments, hinting at changes to consumers’ PC purchase behavior.

Whoa! Is Gartner hinting at a post-PC era?

http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/3185224

Wow.... people didn't specifically buy PCs at holiday sales times this year. Holiday sales didn't boost PC sales. It didn't say holiday sales caused PC sales to decline either. The PC must be dead though.

LOL! Did you pop back to quote numbers at people after spending most of the thread ignoring anything anyone posted that didn't suit you?
Have a look at post #84, one of the many that you ignored. It includes links to Intel's comments about skipping a desktop CPU release and the short term carry over effect they admitted it'd have on desktop sales. You know..... the desktop CPU cycle they skipped and you confabulated into a theory about Skylake being the last desktop CPU refresh for a long time.

You ignored the fact that it's Intel's mobile division that loses money.

Do you think the release of Win10 might have had some effect on PC sales?

Tablet sales are also down. http://www.cnet.com/news/computer-tablet-sales-grim-forecast-gets-worse/ I guess the tablet is dead too and the smart phone rules the world.

Here is a sane editorial on the subject: http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/buying-pc-death-hype-is-dangerous

Those are old links. World moves much faster than that now.

The world obviously moves faster than you. You've been ignoring similar links for the entire thread.
You really should take discussing the subject more seriously, or just give up, unless you're aiming for a comedic effect. If you are.... well done.

[SameSelf]

You are grasping at straws. They are not that old. One of those links is an editorial published in July 2015. That is 6 months old, and it's an editorial! The other was published in August 2015 and is predictive based on year to date sales. ...but here is one for October 2015 that says the same thing. http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20151006PD208.html

Everybody else participating in this thread but you seems able to understand that a decline in sales is to be expected in a mature product category when the market becomes saturated, innovation slows, and the product does not wear out within a couple of years. TV sales have slowed considerably, but the TV is not dead and innovation continues.

Grasping at straws, lol. I am citing the latest industry data covering fourth quarter 2015, and your response is to dig up six month old links. That is a non-sequitor. Why don't you hit me over the head with something from two years ago while your at it.

Also, invoking the crowd adds nothing to your argument.

Is this really about a maturing product category? OK, TVs, indoor plumbing and a handful of other technologies from 50 years ago still inhabit the average consumer home. But, land lines and VHS's don't. See how easy that was? So again I ask, what is Gartner intimating when they say, "Holiday sales did not boost the overall PC shipments, hinting at changes to consumers’ PC purchase behavior." That sounds like a lot more than a "mature product category" in a "saturated market". Most people when their TV breaks replace it. I am not so certain the average user will do the same when their PC breaks. And that is the fundamental point on which we will just have to agree to disagree.

[SameSelf]

Wow.... people didn't specifically buy PCs at holiday sales times this year. Holiday sales didn't boost PC sales. It didn't say holiday sales caused PC sales to decline either. The PC must be dead though.

LOL! Did you pop back to quote numbers at people after spending most of the thread ignoring anything anyone posted that didn't suit you?
Have a look at post #84, one of the many that you ignored. It includes links to Intel's comments about skipping a desktop CPU release and the short term carry over effect they admitted it'd have on desktop sales. You know..... the desktop CPU cycle they skipped and you confabulated into a theory about Skylake being the last desktop CPU refresh for a long time.

You ignored the fact that it's Intel's mobile division that loses money.

Do you think the release of Win10 might have had some effect on PC sales?

The world obviously moves faster than you. You've been ignoring similar links for the entire thread.
You really should take discussing the subject more seriously, or just give up, unless you're aiming for a comedic effect. If you are.... well done.

I ignore what I choose. For example, sure Intel is losing money in the mobile division, but that has nothing to do with PC sales. It is all about them losing the battle to ARM. But I have said all that before......

[SameSelf]

From 2015:

http://www.wired.com/2015/02/In Less Than Two Years, a Smartphone Could Be Your Only Computer

[hello_hello]

I ignore what I choose.

And I choose who I take seriously, mostly based on what they choose to ignore. For example, this thread has you on my "don't take seriously" list.

[hello_hello]

From 2015:
http://www.wired.com/2015/02/In Less Than Two Years, a Smartphone Could Be Your Only Computer

“Increasingly, more activities can be completed by using a smartphone,” Jones told me over email, “but for many it won’t replace the larger device with physical keyboard for productivity tasks.”

Who's going to inform those "many" that the PC is dead?

[usually_quiet]

You are grasping at straws. They are not that old. One of those links is an editorial published in July 2015. That is 6 months old, and it's an editorial! The other was published in August 2015 and is predictive based on year to date sales. ...but here is one for October 2015 that says the same thing. http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20151006PD208.html

Everybody else participating in this thread but you seems able to understand that a decline in sales is to be expected in a mature product category when the market becomes saturated, innovation slows, and the product does not wear out within a couple of years. TV sales have slowed considerably, but the TV is not dead and innovation continues.

Grasping at straws, lol. I am citing the latest industry data covering fourth quarter 2015, and your response is to dig up six month old links. That is a non-sequitor. Why don't you hit me over the head with something from two years ago while your at it.

Speaking of non-sequitors, oh master-debater. If my figures are horribly out of date and much newer figures are available, then why have you not posted them, especially if they prove I'm wrong? Assuming you do find some, I doubt that more recent figures will demonstrate that overall tablet sales have not declined, and declined nearly as much as PC sales. Chip makers were already cutting production in the pre-holiday period based on lackluster tablet sales predictions.

Is this really about a maturing product category? OK, TVs, indoor plumbing and a handful of other technologies from 50 years ago still inhabit the average consumer home. But, land lines and VHS's don't. See how easy that was? So again I ask, what is Gartner intimating when they say, "Holiday sales did not boost the overall PC shipments, hinting at changes to consumers’ PC purchase behavior." That sounds like a lot more than a "mature product category" in a "saturated market". Most people when their TV breaks replace it. I am not so certain the average user will do the same when their PC breaks. And that is the fundamental point on which we will just have to agree to disagree.

A change in PC buying habits or a response to the current economic uncertainty? Holiday spending was down in general. Have you not been paying attention to that part of the news?

[SameSelf]

And I choose who I take seriously, mostly based on what they choose to ignore. For example, this thread has you on my "don't take seriously" list.

Do you have any other lists I can get on?

[hello_hello]

And I choose who I take seriously, mostly based on what they choose to ignore. For example, this thread has you on my "don't take seriously" list.

Do you have any other lists I can get on?

You're already on them.

[SameSelf]

A change in PC buying habits or a response to the current economic uncertainty? Holiday spending was down in general. Have you not been paying attention to that part of the news?

You should then definitely send Gartner an email. They disagree.

[SameSelf]

You're already on them.

Which ones?

[hello_hello]

You're already on them.

Which ones?

All the "don't take seriously", "can be fun to humour him now and then", type lists.

A change in PC buying habits or a response to the current economic uncertainty? Holiday spending was down in general. Have you not been paying attention to that part of the news?

You should then definitely send Gartner an email. They disagree.

How did you confabulate that theory from a simple statement that holiday sales didn't boost PC sales? I wonder how holiday sales having a limited impact on PC sales in the US this year shows a world-wide trend for a dying PC?

From your link.

Notes: Data includes desk-based PCs, notebook PCs, and ultramobile premium.

Or are ultramobiles not mobile devices?
I guess it doesn't matter. PC or mobile device, or mobile PC, people bought less of them too. Yet isn't the argument for the death of the PC based on the availability and purchase of more powerful mobile devices? The ones people are apparently buying less of?

“Holiday sales had a limited impact on PC sales in the U.S. market,” Ms. Kitagawa said. “Notebooks were off the top wish list of holiday gifts. Unlike 2014 holiday sales, there were not many holiday mega deals for laptops, especially in value segments. At the same time, consumers’ interest shifted to other consumer electronics devices such as TV’s and wearables. “

Wow. People bought 4K TVs this year during holiday sales because they're new. The PC must be dead.

[SameSelf]

You're already on them.

I am more interested in hearing what other lists I am on.

[hello_hello]

You're already on them.

I am more interested in hearing what other lists I am on.

I don't doubt it. A new reason to ignore the topic for you to latch on to.

All the "don't take seriously", "can be fun to humour him now and then", type lists, but you should start a new thread for such a lengthy topic. I'm sure most people here have similar lists.

[SameSelf]

I needed some insight into to how to read your posts in this thread because the discussion was beginning to turn personal and ugly. But I assume based on your response it is all in good fun and none of the vitriol extends beyond this thread.

[hello_hello]

Are you asking if I'll take you seriously in other threads based on the way your participated in the discussion here? Aren't we going around in circles now?

[usually_quiet]

A change in PC buying habits or a response to the current economic uncertainty? Holiday spending was down in general. Have you not been paying attention to that part of the news?

You should then definitely send Gartner an email. They disagree.

Gartner used a weasel-word, "hinting", so their analysis can't be proven faulty if PC buying increases a little later. A hint isn't definitive.

If consumers are tightening their belts and holiday spending is down in general, one would expect holiday sales for most higher priced merchandise, including personal computers, to be more affected by it than sales of lower-priced items.

[Gregg]

http://www.wired.com/2015/02/In Less Than Two Years, a Smartphone Could Be Your Only Computer

I think this is too "optimistic". PC sales could be declining but PC will never be dead because it's just better for certain types of work to be done. If you enjoy staring at that 6, 7 or whatever inch smartphone display that's entirely your problem. I accidently noticed that everything looks much better on a 22" screen... Go figure.
All those 4k video capabilities and stuff are just tricks to make you buy the next model smartphone and are just absurd if you think about that.
I already ordered what is now known as an "anti smartphone". Being around PCs all day long (with 22" and bigger screens!) I don't need all those extras in my phone (phone being a secondary or tertiary function now). I hate texting and I don't share anything so let the kids have fun with those things.

[SameSelf]

Are you asking if I'll take you seriously in other threads based on the way your participated in the discussion here? Aren't we going around in circles now?

I don't think that this forum is unlike a lot of forums on the web where a handful of "gatekeepers" work hard to shout out dissent. Apparently, I am a rogue on a lot of issues, and my attitude has earned me a few enemies. I have been accused of being the doppleganger of a banned poster (forget the profile name). Certain individuals who used to always provided great answers to my questions haven't posted in my threads in a couple of months. No worries. I'll keep coming back here because I still have some unanswered video questions. At least until Baldrick or whoever is in charge bans me.

[fritzi93]

If consumers are tightening their belts and holiday spending is down in general, one would expect holiday sales for most higher priced merchandise, including personal computers, to be more affected by it than sales of lower-priced items.

This past year looks like the weakest since 2009 for retail sales:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-15/retail-sales-in-u-s-decrease-to-end-...ear-since-2009

[ndjamena]

Is this relevant?

http://www.cnet.com/au/news/playing-games-on-the-pc-is-making-a-comeback/