Bitrate for low motion

[Tafflad]

[QUOTE=DB83;2417828]

Just check the bitrate in mediainfo. Much quicker than doing maths.

BTW what happened to that program you bought ? Couldn't you make the Blu Ray direct from that ?

Yes it can ... but I don't want to ... I wanted to mix it several mp3 audio tracks, with nice fades, mixes etc. and there are a significant number of separate projects .... and Movie studio is much better for that. (and Sound Forge)

[DB83]

The one problem I see, and I am trying to help here and not hinder as I have helped the OP before, is that Rick has 35 videos.

Are all these vids the same as far as motion is concerned ? If not the bitrate that suits one is not gonna suit 'em all.

And this is not rocket science. If the exercise as you describe, and performed correctly, produce avg bit rate of 1033 kbps, the exercise has failed

Which is why, run length permitting, I still suggest a high bitrate and not fart around with all these intermediate samples.

Even so, for other reasons, I would still request that h264 sample just to be certain everything that should be done has been done.

[Tafflad]

I meant the m2v file that vegas will create. As long as its under 100 meg.

Could you not encode direct to m2v ?. That encoding from mjpeg could lose you quality.

The m2v files only comes out after I have decided what bitrate settings to use ... chicken and egg situation there

There are 3 options open to me (good quality) ... discounted the others, and there is no 1920x1080 support

a) H264/AVC MPEG-4 with high profile (21.6Mbps)
b) MJPEG/MOV file (65.8 Mbs)
c) MPEG-2 (60 Mbps)



On the Sony Vegas forum one guy advised advised MPEG-2 as it does not need re-encoding in Movie studio, .... sort of thinking this may be right option, it fits neatly with Blu-ray m2ts format. Welcome your advice.

Obviously only an intermediate format to input into Movie studio ...

[Tafflad]

The one problem I see, and I am trying to help here and not hinder as I have helped the OP before, is that Rick has 35 videos.

Are all these vids the same as far as motion is concerned ? If not the bitrate that suits one is not gonna suit 'em all.

And this is not rocket science. If the exercise as you describe, and performed correctly, produce avg bit rate of 1033 kbps, the exercise has failed

Which is why, run length permitting, I still suggest a high bitrate and not fart around with all these intermediate samples.

Even so, for other reasons, I would still request that h264 sample just to be certain everything that should be done has been done.

They are all slides with slow pan & zoom, and transition so all videos will be similar.

I could create a sample - certainly, at what Bitrate settings ?

[Tafflad]

Handbrake encodes mpeg2 or H264? You want to get H.264.

You can upload that video you encoded in Handbrake, we know you set quality to 18, those 7.4 MB or so. Just to be sure you encoded H.264 and with right resolution.

Technically you should encode Blu-Ray specs in that handbrake, but I thing it is not going to be easy for you to set all those parametrs correctly. So nevermind, boosting that calculated bitrate a bit would take care of it.

Forget about MediaInfo, calculate it or use Bitrate Viewer for this sort of things.

DB83 - for Christ sake , we are trying to get proper and lowest bitare for his video, that was his original question, he is almost there, of course he will use his Vegas to render his Blu-Ray stream there.

My fault then.

This time same source 60 sec duration AVI file .... set Handbrake to H.264
Resultant file is 23.2MB
23.2/60= 0.287 MBs
0.287 * 8000 = 3093 bps

also loaded the handbrake file into Mediainfo bitate shows as 3,253 Kbps

Still seems a significant disparity

[DB83]

ok. Just upload that 23 meg sample.

[poisondeathray]

Those little tests are not going to be applicable to vegas's encoders anyways either Sony or Mainconcept MPEG2 or AVC (you're going to need a lot more bitrate that what your tests are showing, even if you set it to blu-ray compatible settings - default handbrake settings are not), and you're not going to be using x264 for 1080i 50fields/s because MBAFF is incompatible in DVDA .

So I think you're wasting your time with those tests - just fit it to the disc. No use wasting disc space

[_Al_]

Guys, sure he needs to increase the bitrate for Vegas, Blu-Ray needs more and MainConcept is not that good as well, so he needs a bit more. That is considered, I mentioned that. He does not even know his running time, because he was asking about bitrate (his chicken and egg theorem), so I try make him understand how this works. Anyway, with bitrate 6000 (2x more than he got in handbrake) or so, he'd bother everybody including himself to death watching something like that , 10hour long Blu-Ray. All this is just he KNOWS.

One of his questions was even to encode not to Blu-Ray, so he knows after this , he perhaps can encode 50p with CRF 18 in Handbrake getting 4000-5000 kbps. To encode lossless first 300GB or so, who cares, encode it on extra hardisk, then delete.

[Tafflad]

OK if we are getting too complex and it won't get a suitable result.
Option 2 ... see what will fit.

The total run time is 132' 2" I put those numbers into BitRateCalc .... it shows 23450MB available, does that allow for disc file structure overhead ... and what about menus ? .... is there a guide number of MB I need to allow ?

The numbers show as per screen grab ....


If I take a further 100MB off for menus the bitrate drops to 24629 kbps ....... should I look at using 24,000,000 bps as a suitable value .... this will be my first BluRay so no experience.

[DB83]

Well you hardly need 24 mbps and 100 meg is possibly too small for the menus.

Think between 15-20 mbps. I know its just a figure plucked from the air but it's enough for that run-length.

[poisondeathray]

And you wouldn't use a "normal" bitrate calculator for a BD target, because there is a lot more muxing overhead for transport streams, typically around 5-8% .

[Tafflad]

I only used this BitRate Calc as I was pointed to it in previous thread on Blu-ray .... the dropdown menu does have option for Blu-ray disk (which is what I selected .. 23450 MB )..... if there is a more appropriate BitRate calc to you can you point me to one ... happy to use an alternative.

[_Al_]

OK if we are getting too complex and it won't get a suitable result

In what sense, your test is telling you that perhaps 10000kbps is more than enough. After this exercise you can use to generate non Blu-Ray content, that you were thinking of as well and where size is more important than just fill Blu-Ray, whatever bitrate..

Btw. You can post here you uncompressed 2-3 GB video but in 10-20MB zip, easily .
You can just post zip of your Vegas *.vf project (or just that rough minute) and particular images involved.

[Tafflad]

what video do you want me to upload the video output from ProShowGold ? ... I don't have any output file form Movie Studio (yet) that was where this post started what bitrate do I set in order to create the render.
Let me know what bitrate and I will do the render ... not trying to be awkward just not sure which rate you mean.

I can also upload the original ProShowGold file if you want both

[_Al_]

I do not need to see any upload, also you were talking about Vegas, not sure where that ProShowGold is coming from now, and you seem to be doing a Blu-Ray now with bitrate that fits 2 hours or so. So you are fine. You can use any bitare between 10000 and even a bit more than 20000 basically.

[PuzZLeR]

Technically you should encode Blu-Ray specs in that handbrake, but I thing it is not going to be easy for you to set all those parametrs correctly.

You could easily set the parameters in the advanced tab, but until HandBrake allows you to encode and output raw streams, there is no way to encode to 100% blu-ray compatible H.264.

As I mentioned in a guide, muxing/demuxing a stream through MP4/MKV will delete vital data such as IDK, delimiters, HRD, SPS, etc, necessary for blu-ray compatibility, particularly any calculations/data pertinent at the container level.

Sure it can work, even if you properly mux it into M2TS or author to a blu-ray structure, but it has no guarantee.

[_Al_]

I started to response regarding to investigate that "needed on bases" bitrate mostly because he was mentioning to produce a non Blu-Ray product as well. Yes it is not exact and a bit off to compare Blu-Ray stream and non Blu-Ray stream and even different encoders would be involved, but it is a start. It is irrelevant at the moment, if you think about 2hour Blu-Ray, than any bitrate could basically fit. Also I see perfect set up in his case to produce 50p video with CRF settings, but that is not a topic for him now, he creates Blu-Ray at the moment, maybe it gets to it later again. But it seems that folks do not want to cross all that fuss to get proper bitrate anyway, even pro's do not do it. Getting out 25Mbits does not matter what.

[Tafflad]

I do not need to see any upload, also you were talking about Vegas, not sure where that ProShowGold is coming from now, and you seem to be doing a Blu-Ray now with bitrate that fits 2 hours or so. So you are fine. You can use any bitare between 10000 and even a bit more than 20000 basically.

The input files for Movie Studio come from the output of ProShowGold (1920x1080, 50i MPEG2) ... sorry if mentioning them confused things.

[_Al_]

ok, so you encode two times, that's not optimal as well

[DB83]

^^ Sorry to interrupt again.

Rick, you seem confused. You showed me the source stream (PM) and that was 50p Mpeg2 NOT 50i.

[Tafflad]

DB83 - Typo ... sorry the MPEG2 source files are progressive ... originally I was using H264/AVC MP4 which was 50i ... now swapped to MPEG2

Al - don't see I have any option ?

[_Al_]

I do not know what ProShow Gold can export, what formats, bitrates , why you need it to load in Vegas etc.

[Tafflad]

I posted the ProShow gold options in post #33 above.

Using MPEG-2 seems to be the best option, the bitrate used on this is 60,000 ... I could dial it down, I used this value as it was suggested on Sony Vegas forum.

I need these files to go into Vegas for editing ... adding music sync'd to tracks, commentary, captions ... etc.

[_Al_]

That intermediate 60,000 seems alright.