"Blade Runner" Criterion Laserdisc

[Cuddly Squid]

Anyone who has either of the Criterion "Blade Runner" Laserdiscs, would you kindly help my research?

The Laserdisc back notes by William Kolb say this:

"In the shooting version of the script, Rachael and Deckard escape in his spinner. From previous clues such as a dream sequence in which Deckard sees a unicorn, a glow in his eyes similar to that of the replicants and the final rooftop exchange with Gaff, Deckard realizes that he, the replicant Batty, and Rachael are the new people, made for this world. He sees a tiny blip on his spinner display screen -- Gaff in hot pursuit -- and his closing line is, ''God help us all!'' This ending, which implies that Deckard is in fact a replicant himself, calls into question the film's explicit premises."
-- from back notes by William Kolb for both the 1987 2-disc CAV Laserdisc (UPC 715515000093) & the 1989 1-disc CLV Laserdisc (UPC 715515000109). Ed. note: It's assumed that "the film's explicit premises" refers to what Kolb cited in a previous paragraph as "the tragedy in Deckard and Rachael's situation".

If the above is true, then it's a 6th version of "Blade Runner" that was released on readily available media (which does not include the additional 3 differring versions, or perhaps 4, that never left film or video tape and were shown as sneak peaks, on television, etc. and that are not on readily available media).

I have read that the Criterion Laserdisc was the International Cut, but I have the International Cut and it does not match what Kolb says above. Criterion released the 2-disc CAV in 1987, and then the 1-disc CLV in 1989. Both have Kolb's statement about the unicorn daydream and I doubt Criterion would twice print it wrong. According to Scott, he filmed the unicorn daydream in 1982, but he claims it didn't appear on media until the Director's Cut in 1991. ...Something's not right.

Do you have either of the Criterion Laserdiscs? Would you, could you help to clear this up once and for all?

Thank You So Much.
CS.

[Krispy Kritter]

Are you trying to confirm a specific scene? Are you limiting your search to only Laserdisc? Unless I'm mistaken, several of the cuts, and all cut scenes were included in the DVD set.

Also, regardless of disc print dates, the actual movie cuts are listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versions_of_Blade_Runner

[Cuddly Squid]

Hi Krispy Kritter,

I have the 5-disc set: 1982 workprint, 1982 U.S. domestic cut, 1982 international cut, 1991 so-called "Director's Cut", and 2007 "Final Cut". It appears that the 1987 & 1989 Criterion Laserdiscs contain yet another version (in addition to various one-off showings and television versions that I'm not including and in which I'm not interested).

Now, I've been at this sort of stuff for a long time, and I expected that when I searched for this:
Kolb Criterion Laserdisc "Blade Runner"
I would find discussion about Kolb's wording... lots of discussion.

But I found NOTHING.

I did find a 482 x 360 youtube video from which I isolated a 476 x 197 video frame. That means that the aspect is 2.42 (not 2.50 as previously reported). The theatrical film was 2.35 aspect. I was always sceptical about the 2.50 aspect reported for the Criterion Laserdisc. BTW, the video was uploaded by someone who goes by the handle: "BreadCrustCouncil". Whoever made the video did a good job and it looks like they did a good analog video recording, so I think the 2.42 aspect is accurate.

After uploading a good recording, BreadCrustCouncil then proceeded to call it "Blade Runner: The Final Cut Special Edition". Oh, my. The older I get, the more careful I get regarding what I believe to be true. It seems a lot of people repeat bogus information, probably because they want to be comprehensive even though they can't confirm what they report.

The Criterion Laserdiscs are supposed to be the international version of the film. I don't believe it. It that were true, then I don't think William Kolb would have written what he wrote on the back of the Criterion Laserdisc packaging.

Do you know anyone who has the Laserdisc and something to play it on?

Ciao - CS.

PS: Half of everything I read on Wikipedia is wrong. - C.

[october262]

here - http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&...rdisc&_sacat=0

[Cuddly Squid]

No thank you. I've already eaten.

[hech54]

There is nothing on YouTube or any other video or fan site that shows the Criterion version?....even just a tiny clip of the difference(s) as proof?
I find that VERY hard to believe.

[Cuddly Squid]

There is nothing on YouTube or any other video or fan site that shows the Criterion version?....even just a tiny clip of the difference(s) as proof?
I find that VERY hard to believe.

Me too! I find it nearly impossible to believe.

On the one hand, we have scores of people writing that the Criterion Laserdiscs are the international cut. On the other hand, we have the back notes written by William Kolb:

"In the shooting version of the script, Rachael and Deckard escape in his spinner. From previous clues such as a dream sequence in which Deckard sees a unicorn, a glow in his eyes similar to that of the replicants and the final rooftop exchange with Gaff, Deckard realizes that he, the replicant Batty, and Rachael are the new people, made for this world. He sees a tiny blip on his spinner display screen -- Gaff in hot pursuit -- and his closing line is, God help us all! This ending, which implies that Deckard is in fact a replicant himself, calls into question the film's explicit premises."

Kolb wrote that 3 years before the workprint was discovered, 4 years before the so-called "Director's Cut". The God help us all!-ending is rumored, but no one that I found states that they've actually seen it. And it appears that the earliest claim that the Criterion Laserdiscs are the international cut are based on the happy ending (identifying a theatrical version) plus the extra violence (blood flowing out of Tyrell's eyes, etc. which rules out the U.S. domestic version), but says nothing about the unicorn daydream. That the international version is the Criterion Laserdisc has been quoted and re-quoted, but is it true? There were VHS & Beta tapes and at least one Warner Laserdisc before 1987. What do they show? I'm pretty sure that the Warner Laserdisc is the U.S. domestic release, but there were also Japanese releases that have been reported to have been different from the U.S domestic version and that preceed the Criterion Laserdiscs. How can the 1987 Criterion Laserdisc be the international cut?

...And we have Kolb's words. No one seems to have commented on those words. I find that to be incredible.

I think it's very possible that the claim that Janus Films created the international cut has been repeated so many times what it has become gospel without anyone actually confirming it. I have seen cases similar to this in which the people who are in the know simply assume that everyone already knows what such-and-such a disc contains. When you ask them, they reply, "Well, everyone knows it." Well, everyone doesn't know it.

I remember the first time I saw the unicorn daydream. I wondered what it was about. 1987 was pre-Internet -- well, there was Usenet, but try to search for stuff that you know was on Usenet, then try to search for something that may have been on Usenet. If in 1987 a version appeared having the unicorn daydream, someone would have commented on it, wouldn't they? Surely someone would have commented on the Criterion Laserdisc regardless of its content.

I know that some people in this forum have one or both Criterion Laserdiscs, and the player with which to view them. I know it because, in my quest, I've read discussion here about the Criterion Laserdiscs that's only a few years old -- from 2009, I think. The scene in which a drunken Deckard plunks at the piano is easy to find. It's at about the 40-minute mark, right after the scenes at the Bradbury in which Sebastian first takes Pris in.

In the back notes, in the paragraph that preceeds the quote above, Kolb also wrote about In an earlier version of the script... But then he writes the above quote about the shooting script. Well, no shooting script that anyone's found has the God help us all!-ending, and no one will see the unicorn daydream for another 3 or 4 years! I reason that the shooting script to which Kolb refers must be the actual Laserdisc, and that he assumes that it was the shooting script. That's the only explanation that makes sense. The alternative is that Kolb was wrong about the shooting script, and that someone at Janus Films simply stuck something they thought was appropriate into the back notes. But I find that to be hard to believe for 2 reasons: It was repeated 2 years later when the 2nd Laserdisc came out, and no one that I have found has ever commented on Kolb's words.

At the very least, this is a mystery about which no one has previously commented.

I've uploaded a scan of the back of the Laserdisc. I found it at a site... maybe an Ebay site.

[aedipuss]

the criterion laser disc version was the "international version", it's well known. the version with "extra scenes" not on any known commercial release was - "A San Diego Sneak Preview was shown only once, in May 1982, and was almost identical to the U.S. theatrical version but contained three extra scenes not shown in any other version, including the 2007 Final Cut." may have been what the liner notes refer to.

[Cuddly Squid]

Thanks, aedipuss, but I don't believe it. I don't believe in Santa Claus either. The San Diego Sneak Preview was not the final shooting script to which Kolb refers. And Kolb would hardly write about an audience test print on the back of a production Laserdisc.

Do you have a Criterion Laserdisc? Have you watched either of the Criterion Laserdiscs?

[aedipuss]

i had a version that was labeled "criterion" but it was identical to the international release and deleted it. afaik the international release is the only one that has the final scene with them flying away, but no "god help us all". no i never had a laser disc player so i can't deny it's "possible", but i've been collecting oddities for a long time and never have i seen a ld release of blade runner. unlike the star wars ones that were done because they were different than other releases. i can ask around but ld people are hard to find now....

[lingyi]

I have the 2 disc Criterion LD and just fired it up to satisfy my own curiosity.

The ending line is "I didn't know how long we had together. Who does?".

[Cuddly Squid]

...i can ask around but ld people are hard to find now....

Thanks, Mr. Aedipuss, You'll be "Rex" to me if you can help. Check this out: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/173582-JVC-DR-M10SL-user-s-thread-techniques-and-ti...l=1#post963344 Do you happen to know this fella? -- it's the best lead I have.

Regards,
CS

[Cuddly Squid]

I have the 2 disc Criterion LD and just fired it up to satisfy my own curiosity.

The ending line is "I didn't know how long we had together. Who does?".

Wonderful! Here's the test (if you will be so kind):

The scene in which a drunken Deckard plunks at the piano is easy to find. It's at about the 40-minute mark, right after the scenes at the Bradbury in which Sebastian first takes Pris in. The scene in Deckard's apartment begins with a view of a rhinocerous statue. It pans left & pulls back to show Deckard leaning over a piano keyboard plunking at keys. He's drunk, but not too drunk, and only inferred as drunk by his spaced out condition. As he absently taps a key, he has a unicorn daydream. Do you see that unicorn daydream on the Criterion Laserdisc? If not, then what Kolb wrote on the back of the Criterion Laserdisc can be completely discounted.

Thanks in advance. Thanks for your service.
CS.

[lingyi]

Just checked and no unicorn sequence.

I do recall seeing a verision with the unicorn sequence and no voiceover. Since I've never seen Blade Runner on videotape or DVD, I probably have the Director's Cut LD somewhere.

As for Kolb's comments, IIRC, there were reports of other Criterion releases with incorrect info (though I can't think of any right now).

[Cuddly Squid]

Thank you so much, lingyi. I'm satisfied that the Criterion Laserdisc is the international cut. Perhaps in the future, people in doubt after reading Kolb's notes will find this post and realize that Kolb's notes are bogus.

Regarding Criterion releases, I became leary of Criterion when it started releasing Michael Bay films.

[filmboss80]

A shooting script is simply a screenplay with added scene-by-scene, shot-by-shot production notes, and the shooting script can go through many revisions itself. Kolb never asserted that everything he described in the shooting script was actually filmed. It just seems he was offering an interesting production anecdote, and not making some sort of promise that such scenes would be included in the laserdisc.

[Cuddly Squid]

Well, you are right of course. The fault actually lies with whoever pasted Kolb's notes into the "Blade Runner" Laserdisc artwork. By "bogus", I meant "not applicable", not "not true". My fault there. I should be more careful. You were right to call me out on that point.

Disclaimer: From the git-go I realized that some media distributers write total garbage in the notes found in media artwork, but this is Criterion we're talking about here. Oh, well, I guess I'll grow up and take off the rose-colored glasses and realize that Criterion is just another distributer.

[Cuddly Squid]

2.50 Aspect for the "Blade Runner" Criterion Laserdiscs?

Just for completeness for the people who have been following this thread, I strip-saved the frames from these BRLD captures by member gshelley61 and from these BRLD captures by member vhelp. Correcting the aspect of vhelp's "fat-face" 704 pix/line images for PAR (=8/9), I got the following aspects:

From gshelley61's captures: 2.375 (i.e., 620x261), and
from vhelp's captures: 2.307 (i.e., 609x264, after PAR correction).
Neither of these are anywhere near 2.50 aspect.
However, 683x264 is 2.587.
So, what is 683x264? It is vhelp's 704x480 captures, but before PAR correction.
...I believe these uncorrected captures (or something like them) are the basis for the reports that the "Blade Runner" Criterion Laserdiscs are 2.50 aspect.
It's not true. They are close to 2.35 (i.e., the actual aspect of the 35mm projection images, after anamorphic expansion).

Oh, disclaimer: Being analog technology, Laserdisc sampling is subject to ...certain variabilities, so the aspect close to 2.35 is about the most accurate statement I can make. That said, both gshelley61 & vhelp are competent video samplers (engineers? I don't know that, but they seem really in-the-know). I think their captures are good captures.