What's a 'compete' editing arsenal? (Program collection for Motion graphics

[Crye]

I want to be able to edit both basic flat videos and animate in 3D ...to make things impossible in real life possible on video etc. E.g. If I wanted to edit a film like Clash of the Gods (huge fire man conjoined with a mountain), or say Lord of the rings etc.

- I know there will be plugins etc to add.
- I don't necessarily want to be the best in the world. Just want to catch fun and edit some kind of movies/scenes I write, e.g. A child that morphed into a wall-creeping creature before his mother.

Stuff like that can be challenging, I know, but would you consider the following a 'complete' set for such? Like... if I brag, say I am an editor, would the progs below be like ...okay?? I will do my research. I just need some kind of complete list, a specific list to focus on. Please refine as needed if I have made repetitions or omissions, e.g C4D might (i dunno) do what Blender would do etc. Narrow down as much as you can.


Looking around I often see a particular set of programs/plugs.

Premiere Pro (Started with this)
After Effects (Started with this)
Photoshop
Cinema 4D
3D Max
Blender


Thanks in advance.

[poisondeathray]

There is quite a bit of overlap in the last 3. They do similar things. Also Maya would be more popular for this type of work. Each one has many specific plugins that can help - it would be too numerous to list

"Morphing" realistically in 3D is very very very difficult. If you have to ask... I would say forget about it right now. It's very involved, because it includes not only polygon morphing for the 3D models, but also very difficult 3D compositing challenges with multiple passes, scene lighting, shadows, specular, diffuse, reflections, refractions.

2D morphing is still difficult, but many times easier - you can fake some of the 3d things like shadows , reflections etc.. with compositing tricks

[Crye]

Poison, you're indeed so helpful in this forum. I truly appreciate.

Don't get this wrong, I am grateful for your advice, eg. you just prepped me saying #D Morphing is hard. I know they're difficult, but I just want to have a complete list waiting there somewhere...just in case. I know we can never have a complete list, but we can make up a tool box according to what I would like to do as described. In music that I am more advanced in for example, I would tell you: Get FL Studio or Pro-Tools in Mac, and then some plugins. Music would not take that much number of MAIN programs but a DAW (Digital Audio Workstaion) like FL etc.

I need this bc I can also watch tutorials on them (specifically) to narrow down and, if there's no time, at least to be familiar with their capabilities. You know many of us watch things and have no idea how they get made, e.g in what sort of program. There are many reasons I need this list..not that it will be definitive but coming from a more experienced person would point me to focus. Aha, like that, how you just summed up on all these programs and even more... means you know what u doing, and can suggest a list, like a toolbox - not to worry about the plugs(for video...music would, def); when I start looking into the main programs in the list, I will see many things that were done in them, but using XYZ plug, and then I'll go dig on XYZ from there. E.g. You can't always work on PPro alone but switch to AE etc. Those are the main I mean. If I don't narrow down, it will distract me from the main ones like PPro.

Yeah, I heard about MAYA...see? I was undermining it as I hear more of the others.

Ok, since there's overlapping...


Premiere Pro (Started with this)
After Effects (Started with this)
Photoshop
MAYA

Can these do up to 3D morphing? (which I think is the apogee in editing now). Please just give your choice progs that you'd suggest to a person with these goals. Don't pity me, like saying 3D morphing is difficult. I don't actually know the differences, that's why i describe films you know and probably know what was used...not exact progs but which of these progs would contribute or go far to achieve this morphing. So would 3D morphing be like that wall creeping scene in my other feature script? Imagine that ugly mentor in Star Trek, creeping on a vertical wall and skipping here and there..is that what that is?. Don't worry, I can learn anything if I really want to. My passions are so much more important to me than anything else including money. I just don't want to go search when the time comes, but stay organised, have a list ahead. Thank you so much. Respect.

[racer-x]

Tools are only as good as the craftsman that uses them. The tools on your list have ability, it's just a question of the user's ability.

[smrpix]

Start with Maya and subscribe to a good post-production magazine such as Post. There is no comprehensive list because it literally changes every day. The folks who are really good at this stuff end up writing a lot of their own code for unique behaviors and surfaces, etc. The mindset is to do something no one else has ever done.

[poisondeathray]

For the 3D stuff, you're going to have to spend a lot of time just learning the basics. I would pick one and learn it well. If you start with Maya you can narrow you search down. There are VFX channels for various tutorials . Youtube, vimeo are good to start with

I would add NukeX to the list. There is some overlap in terms of function with AE, but a lot of things NukeX does better.

Have a look at some popular AE tutorials on videocopilot.net. Some of your effects are probably covered either directly or partially. And AE is probably much easier to learn for starting out

[XenonS]

Because you both mention Adobe Premiere and Adobe After Effects, I would like to catch this occasion and ask what's the main differences of the 2 as for the features.
AFAIK, Premiere is more for editing existing videos with lot of correction and fix features, whereas After Effects is a pure video 'creation' tool that would be cumbersome to use for pure editing and managing videos. Do I get this right?

Thanks,
XenonS

[poisondeathray]

Because you both mention Adobe Premiere and Adobe After Effects, I would like to catch this occasion and ask what's the main differences of the 2 as for the features.
AFAIK, Premiere is more for editing existing videos with lot of correction and fix features, whereas After Effects is a pure video 'creation' tool that would be cumbersome to use for pure editing and managing videos. Do I get this right?

There is a bit of overlap between the two (for example, you can edit in AE, and you can do some effects in PP) , but in the simplest terms PP is more suited for non linear edits, AE for effects and compositing

I don't know what you mean by "correction and fix features" for PP, and I don't know what you mean by pure video "creation" for AE

[Crye]

@Poison: Thanks. So a good list would be (I'm not still clear which and which you exclude - I said I dunno their capabilities):

Premiere Pro (Started with this)
After Effects (Started with this)
Photoshop
MAYA
NukeX

Please kindly confirm the list.

I know it changes and there's customisation etc, but as of right now. When I'm already in I'll automatically know the trends.

BTW, I'm not clear now, since you just touched MAYA and then added another, NukeX (thankxx!). So how about the others? Say i want to make something like Avengers which incorporates both 3D and flat. Please tell me if that list will go close, that is, if it simulates a typical package. I think 'ToolBox' explains it better.

If you gave me a list I would know, for e.g, if MAYA kicks AE out. Give me a list (so that I will now be sure there aren't any serious overlaps), and I will go and check out their capabilities, having now narrowed down. I think just a list would do, and it can't be a standard, I certainly know that!!

Man, I know when I'll study these. There's a lot we can't discuss here. I know what I'm doing and what's available to me. I just hope I can have a picture of what I MIGHT need get into sometime. I also might not - we propose, God wills! From what I learned in a PPro course, Photoshop for example is a pillar. So since you already know the functions, don't worry if it's hard for me (everything is hard before learning), but just give a list of these programs that could do those. Don't worry about my opinion but dictate. I've not gone far with AE, so if for e.g. MAYA or NukeX would do most things it can, maybe I start there first. I have the software. It gets more confusing when you don't answer directly, and I feel laden like I'm wasting your time. I have pictures in my head, varied and many. It can be hard explaining them all the time, so I'd just ask for something that would fit somewhere. I earlier said I don't want to be the best. Neither do I like it. I want to be the average smart guy who enjoys life...a bit of everything. I don't see anything wrong in getting myself familiar with as many things as I want (e.g. I hope to study Astronomy one day... and maybe medicine. I don't work for nobody. We're all different. Please help me with this list so we can move on. I'm eager to write them down and then head up to Wiki or sth, to see where they fit in my visions and projects. If i tell you I'm sure what you concluded on the list right now, I'd be lying...we've touched diff neighbouring things. Tks!!

Yeah, @XenonS, you're right. You wouldn't take heavy machine guns to a knife fight, though it would work. As I understand, AE - as the name implies - is mainly for dealing with 'bits'. Say you were in PPro editing a movie and there's need for this fatal car accident then you'd go to AE, do it (or do it better) and then come back. As Poison said, there are usually overlaps (these are ingenious apps!) but you'd use a bigger hammer for a bigger stone, right? And Yes, you can correct colour, lighting, texture etc. Many effects and presets, and animation etc too. Just depends on the level of work, then you know when to switch over to AE, which even doubles as a plugin for PPro.

[Crye]

Thanks, smrpix...so I'll start 3D with MAYA, then NukeX. I'll dig on those. How about these...

Premiere Pro (Started with this)
After Effects (Started with this)
Photoshop

?

[poisondeathray]

You still need the other programs for other tasks. They are not pure replacements for each other. You need photoshop (or some image editor equivalent) for some texture manipulation for example. You need PP (or some NLE equivalent) to do the basic video editing (it's a lot slower to do video editing in AE).

NukeX is higher end, and a lot more expensive than AE. It's harder to use, nodal based workflow - you won't find as many tutorials for it as AE. It's not a pure replacement for AE, it's just that certain tasks are better in NukeX - especially camera projections. AE is very popular and has a huge user base. You will find many forums that have users and can help out.

For something that you're describing, you need to matchmove and do 3D compositing (you're combining 3d elements and models into 2D footage). Some of it can be done with AE's 3d tracker and Element3D, some of it with NukeX. Some shots need specialized 3D tracking like PFTrack, Bijou , or 3DEqualizer - But it's unlikely you will need those

A lot of stuff you can "fake" in 2D. I would start with AE for the compositing and some of the effects. Take a look at some popular tutorials on videocopilot . For example, the demon face warp convers many of the concepts that you would need for 2D warping and compositing. At minimum you need to learn about those basic concepts because they will apply to everything that you do

http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials/demon_face_warp/
http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials/sub_surface_skin/
http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials/soul_removal/

[Crye]

Ok, thank you so very much. I watch/download tutorials everyday. That's no prob. I think I even have a similar tutorial of Andrew in my drive...or watched it partly yesterday. It had been him, Andrew Kramer, showing how they did something and he even made a move as to scare us as his face morphed. He's very good this. I also have his earth zoom tut.

So I will proceed like this, in order:

Ppro...AE/Photoshop concurrently...MAYA...NukeX.

Thanks a lot for the links, and AHA, I suspect 'soul removal' can help me in the transfiguration scene in my other thread.