Aspect ratio of 1.375? Can Avidemux solve that?

[MovingParts]

Hi,

I actually would just like to copy the file and only correct the aspect ratio, but to me it seems I can only convert to another format, including encoding, if I want to youse the filter, where one can add pxels to the left and right (+8 each?).

Other ideas?

Mpgstreamclip will offer to fix the aspect ratio, but only when encoding a second time eventually loosing quality like in Avidemux.

[jagabo]

Do you realize that 1.37 is a common aspect ratio for movies? So your file may be fine (only off by a tiny bit) as it is.

You cannot change the frame size without reencoding.

You can use a program like My Mp4box GUI to flag the aspect ratio in the header. But not all players will respect the flag.

[MovingParts]

Avidemux disagrees with you. When attempting to convert to DVD-standard, I get an error after the 1st pass "bad width - not suitable for DVD". (I had chosen 4:3 in the "configure" settings, as there was nothing different). I even applied a filter that added 8 pixels l+r. Still didn't like.

I will have a try if Toast or iDVD likes it, when it is re-encoding the original file to DVD standard. I also have a file with 5:4 ratio and will see how the three apps like this.

Other observation:
I have the 1.375 movie from another source in 16:9 as well and when I compare them, it seems they cut part of the picture content to make it fit what they believed was a better ratio. Unfortunately the 16:9 source is in a lower bitrate "(250kbps video) and AVC baseline 2.1 or 1.3, 1 ref frame - audio is 92kbps", while the strange one is "460kbps video, AVC high@3, 5 ref frames - audio is 42kbps".

[jagabo]

Avidemux disagrees with you. When attempting to convert to DVD-standard, I get an error after the 1st pass "bad width - not suitable for DVD".

Nowhere did you mention DVD in the first post. DVD only supports a few frame sizes: 720x576, 704x576, 352x576, and 352x288 for PAL. And DVD only supports two display aspect ratios: 4:3 and 16:9. Any video that isn't one of those aspect ratios will have letterbox or pillarbox bars added to fill out the frame.

You still can't change the frame size without reencoding.

And DVD doesn't support AVC so you have to reencode to MPEG 2 anyway.

[MovingParts]

Yes, of course.

Let me explain my thinking:
1. observation: file is AVC, 1.375 apsect ratio
2. asumption: the end product should be DVD
3. solution search:
Options
a) I copy the AVC with applying 8pixels left+right filter and then encode to DVD (i.e. mpeg2)
b) I rencode to AVC 4:3 (adding no pixels, which can be done with mpegstreamclip) and then encode to DVD (i.e. mpeg2)
c) I encode directly to mpeg2 and assume that encoding it to mpeg2 will in the same run also correct the wrong aspect ratio to DVD standard (i.e. 4:3/16:9)

none of those worked in Avidemux. Mpegstreamclip however would stretch the movie and reencode it to AVC with corrected 4:3. I didn't work further with the mpegstreamclip file, since after getting the aspect ratio right, suddenly the audio was offsync. I also didn't try to use the mpegstreamclip 4:3 file for Avidemux and apply a shift while encoding to mpeg2. Also it would mean I had made a "reprint" of the "reprint".

I will now try using the 1.375 files with Toast and iDVD.

Handbrake now offers mpeg2, too. I forgot about that. What is the compliant PAR Width and PAR Height for PAL? I found out that according to an adobe help desk article that for NTSC it is 4:3 (720x480 with a PAR of 0.9) or 16:9 (720x480 with a PAR of 1.2). Edit: it must be 1.09 for 4:3 PAL according to Wikipedia. Unfortunately I can only type full numbers in handbrakes picture settings.

[usually_quiet]

Something else... Moving Parts neglected to fill out his computer details, but I know from previous threads that has a Mac. He would probably be better off posting in the Mac forum to get appropriate software suggestions and help.

[jagabo]

Assuming the source file is truly 3.75:1 DAR: You need to resize your source to 720x558 and letterbox to 720x576 by adding a total of 18 lines to the top and bottom of the frame (I'd add 8 at the top, 10 at the bottom). Then encode as MPEG 2, 4:3 DAR for DVD.

It's more likely the original film was 1.37:1 so resize to 720x560 then letterbox to 720x576, etc.

[MovingParts]

Something else... Moving Parts neglected to fill out his computer details, but I know from previous threads that has a Mac. He would probably be better off posting in the Mac forum to get appropriate software suggestions and help.

Well, Avidemux, Handbrake, mpegstreamclip, Roxio Toast are all multiplatform and work very well (those little things that do not work, I guess, are meant to be so by the programmers.)
The only multiplatform Software that was crappy ony my Mac was DVD Styler. I also see that their support forum has not a lot of active members, actually none.

aspect ratio stuff has nothing to do with the Apps being coded for Mac, I'd say.

[MovingParts]

Assuming the source file is truly 3.75:1 DAR: You need to resize your source to 720x558 and letterbox to 720x576 by adding a total of 18 lines to the top and bottom of the frame (I'd add 8 at the top, 10 at the bottom). Then encode as MPEG 2, 4:3 DAR for DVD.

It's more likely the original film was 1.37:1 so resize to 720x560 then letterbox to 720x576, etc.

Of course it is 1.375:1 I never said it was 3.755:1 ??? (You can also see this in my screenshot of mediainfo above).

Hm, in my Handbrake version 0.10.2 there is no DAR, only PAR. I can fill out "PAR width:" and "PAR Height:".
This is the Picture settings window of Handbrake.(see attachment)


To both of you, Handbrake is no curious Mac app, it has been long time around and is really worth a look. I know such a recommendation from someone who fails to know anything, might be laughable, but really trust me. MIND: the advanced options from version 0.9.4 etc. can be activated in 0.10.2, under "Handbrake -> Preferences -> Advanced". Also if you move the mouse over the Advanced options, you will see a small dialog that tells you about the benefits of the certain feature.

[jagabo]

Of course it is 1.375:1 I never said it was 3.755:1 ??? (You can also see this in my screenshot of mediainfo above).

That was obviously a typo on my part. I meant to type 1.375, not 3.75. And if you do the math you'll see the resize dimensions I gave are correct for 1.375:1. You can do all the resizing and letterboxing in AviDemux. If the program doesn't crash on you before it finishes.

I have no use for Handbrake. I do all my filtering in AviSynth and all my encoding with the x264 command line encoder.

Your output from those Handbrake settings will not be DVD compatible. You'll have to go through another resize and another reencode. A waste of time and a further loss of quailty.

[usually_quiet]

Something else... Moving Parts neglected to fill out his computer details, but I know from previous threads that has a Mac. He would probably be better off posting in the Mac forum to get appropriate software suggestions and help.

Well, Avidemux, Handbrake, mpegstreamclip, Roxio Toast are all multiplatform and work very well (those little things that do not work, I guess, are meant to be so by the programmers.)
The only multiplatform Software that was crappy ony my Mac was DVD Styler. I also see that their support forum has not a lot of active members, actually none.

aspect ratio stuff has nothing to do with the Apps being coded for Mac, I'd say.

There can be slight differences between what features are available in multi-platform programs and their bugginess depending on the OS, as well as differences in the amount of effort put into maintaining the various versions. I used to use the Windows version of MPEGStreamclip, but no more. It is now abandonware on that platform.

There are several knowledgeable people who look after the Mac forum. If you want to ignore that resource, it is your loss.

If you don't report the problems you encountered with DVDStyler, they are unlikely to be fixed. Your loss again because apparently the Windows version has a good reputation.

[manono]

When attempting to convert to DVD-standard...

To both of you, Handbrake is no curious Mac app...

Make up your mind. If you're making a DVD, what are you doing using Handbrake? If you're not making a DVD, why even mention that you are? You're making both DVDs and MKVs (?) from your 'sources'?

And since your 'sources' are downloaded, there's no way to tell what the aspect ratio is really supposed to be, even if we know the name of the movie because there's no way to know what the encoder cropped away already.

[usually_quiet]

DVD only supports a few frame sizes: 720x576, 704x576, 352x576, and 352x288 for PAL. And DVD only supports two display aspect ratios: 4:3 and 16:9. Any video that isn't one of those aspect ratios will have letterbox or pillarbox bars added to fill out the frame.

Just a small clarification: The DVD spec only allows 16:9 display aspect ratio to be used with D1 resolutions. For PAL DVD, D1 resolutions are 720x576 and 704x576.

[usually_quiet]

Assuming the source file is truly 3.75:1 DAR: You need to resize your source to 720x558 and letterbox to 720x576 by adding a total of 18 lines to the top and bottom of the frame (I'd add 8 at the top, 10 at the bottom). Then encode as MPEG 2, 4:3 DAR for DVD.

It's more likely the original film was 1.37:1 so resize to 720x560 then letterbox to 720x576, etc.

Of course it is 1.375:1 I never said it was 3.755:1 ??? (You can also see this in my screenshot of mediainfo above).

Hm, in my Handbrake version 0.10.2 there is no DAR, only PAR. I can fill out "PAR width:" and "PAR Height:".
This is the Picture settings window of Handbrake.(see attachment)


To both of you, Handbrake is no curious Mac app, it has been long time around and is really worth a look. I know such a recommendation from someone who fails to know anything, might be laughable, but really trust me. MIND: the advanced options from version 0.9.4 etc. can be activated in 0.10.2, under "Handbrake -> Preferences -> Advanced". Also if you move the mouse over the Advanced options, you will see a small dialog that tells you about the benefits of the certain feature.

jagabo and manono know far more than you do about this stuff. I would pay attention to their advice were I you.

Handbrake may have the ability to output MPEG-2 now, but it doesn't have a DVD profile. The requirements for DVD compatibility go beyond MPEG-2 video and the list of permitted resolutions, display aspect ratios, and frame rates. For example, there is no way to specify the GOP size and composition in Handbrake. If handbrake doesn't make the right choices by default, there is nothing you can do about it.

[MovingParts]

Of course it is 1.375:1 I never said it was 3.755:1 ??? (You can also see this in my screenshot of mediainfo above).

That was obviously a typo on my part. I meant to type 1.375, not 3.75. And if you do the math you'll see the resize dimensions I gave are correct for 1.375:1. You can do all the resizing and letterboxing in AviDemux. If the program doesn't crash on you before it finishes.

I have no use for Handbrake. I do all my filtering in AviSynth and all my encoding with the x264 command line encoder.

Your output from those Handbrake settings will not be DVD compatible. You'll have to go through another resize and another reencode. A waste of time and a further loss of quailty.

Sorry, my mistake: since your answer about "DAR" was after my screenshot of the Handbrake window AND because told you that Avidemux would end up saying "bad width for DVD - no muxing possible" (when I tried to correct the ratio via encoding to mpeg2-PS and selecting 4:3 and 16:9 and in a third attempt adding 8 pixels each side), I thought you were referring to the Handbrake window (remember Avidemux said, it doesn't want to fix the ratio for me).
[QUOTE=usually_quiet;2411142]

1. There can be slight differences between what features are available in multi-platform programs

2. There are several knowledgeable people who look after the Mac forum. If you want to ignore that resource, it is your loss.

1. ok, I see that
2. I thought you were saying I should leave this forum and go to a Mac forum, I didn't know you mean the Mac subforum of this forum.

1. Make up your mind. If you're making a DVD, what are you doing using Handbrake? 2. If you're not making a DVD, why even mention that you are? 3. You're making both DVDs and MKVs (?) from your 'sources'?

4. And since your 'sources' are downloaded, there's no way to tell what the aspect ratio is really supposed to be, even if we know the name of the movie because there's no way to know what the encoder cropped away already.

1. because Avidemux said "bad width for DVD - no muxing", I thought I could instead of producing an mpeg2 file with Avidemux, I could produce it with Handbrake. Trying, if that fixes the apsect ratio. (Mind mpegstreamclip would do it easily, but only via first encoding to mp4, which would be and aditonal step).
Why convert to mpeg2, when I need TS_folders with .vob files for the DVD? Because in the guide for DVD Styler it said, first create mpeg2 file with Avidemux, then import to DVDStyler. (I thought, since Avidemux fails to correct the ratio, I can do the first step with Handbrake. At that point not knowing, that Handbrake can't).
2. I mention, because I am doing a DVD
3. I am doing mkv as a step in between, since obviously (as it looked to me) the Applications couldn't go directly from AVC to mpeg2-DVD (remind Avidemux didn't like the width). That this step in between would be a further loss of quality and makes less sense, is totally clear to me, hence I said "the reprint of a reprint" - and it was not desired by me.

DVD only supports a few frame sizes: 720x576, 704x576, 352x576, and 352x288 for PAL. And DVD only supports two display aspect ratios: 4:3 and 16:9. Any video that isn't one of those aspect ratios will have letterbox or pillarbox bars added to fill out the frame.

Just a small clarification: The DVD spec only allows 16:9 display aspect ratio to be used with D1 resolutions. For PAL DVD, D1 resolutions are 720x576 and 704x576.

Well, why does Avidemux and Toast then offer 4:3 and 16:9 for PAL DVDs? Oh, you mean "display aspect ratio", where 16:9 is stored 4:3 on the media itself and then strechted upon playback by the standalone player. but, if the computer says 1.375 is nearer to 4:3 and 4:3 (unsqueezed) is supported on DVDs, too, why not use 4:3? (those stuff about anamorph and so on, I remember, but since it is a 4:3 that is just missing 8 pixels left and right, it should be fixed to 4:3, I thought...

1. jagabo and manono know far more than you do about this stuff. I would pay attention to their advice were I you.

2. Handbrake may have the ability to output MPEG-2 now, but it doesn't have a DVD profile. The requirements for DVD compatibility go beyond MPEG-2 video and the list of permitted resolutions, display aspect ratios, and frame rates. For example, there is no way to specify the GOP size and composition in Handbrake. If handbrake doesn't make the right choices by default, there is nothing you can do about it.

1. I didn't mean to behave improper or pissing in anyones faces. I the Apps, do not allow me to do, what they advice me. My sentence about "Handbrake is no crappy Mac software", was because, I realized in the past that few PC usrs know the app, although it is pretty much straight forward (at least for the other formats. I see). Secondly, because I thought you were implying that since Mac is not the best for video production and I should consult a Mac forum, that you conclude, that since Handbrake is probably a Mac App, it is crappy, too and worth no look. (again, I didn't know, if this application is know to the users here, since I experienced, that a lot of PC users do not know it).
2. already explained in 1.


Again, I know ME is the stupid a-hole person and I didn't pretend anything different, I just told what I encountered with the Apps. There was no intent to offend/insult the elderlys, by me, as sort of a clichee child who thinks he is a know-it-all and trols the internet.


BACK TO TOPIC:
- the next I say is not gonna solve the problem, but I share it with you, since I think it is an interesting observation.

I threw the AVC files as is on Toast (I picked all different ratios I have, because I wanted to see, what Toast behaves like).

I had:
a) 5:4 (1.25)
b) 1.357
c) 4:3
d) 16:9
material

the result was (after Toast forcing DVD compliancy on the media).

a) now has 1.222
b) got 4:3
c) 4:3
d) 16:9


THANKS TO ALL. I will now discuss the problem in the Mac Subforum, as per your advice.
and sorry, if I hearted your minds.