Export settings for 1920x1080 footage edited in 720x576 DV PAL.

[Crye]

To be honest I'm yet to be clear the implications of all these settings (PAL/NTSC, frames etc) on editing and its flow and output etc generally.

I have a wedding I covered as my first ever project. I captured 1920x1080, 25fps with my Sony NEX VG20 camera.

In Adobe PPro CS6 I have edited everything using sequence settings/preset: 720x576 25fps in DV PAL mode, 16:9 widescreen. I guess this scaling down had been advised as a way to counter the low performance computer on this heavy project. This made the images cropped on editing. I would just right-click a clip and take "scale to frame size" if I really wanted to see the fullness of that clip. But when I copy over to a 1920x1080 sequence (that matches raw footage) I see full frames, it's fine.

Now I'm done with the alignments etc on timeline. I want to export or burn to CD/DVD to get optimal quality output from the footage. So...

- I can't finally export using 720x576? And I don't know if this scaling down affects image quality and video file size? Or should I export from the 1920x1080 instead and use a corresponding export setting?
- How will all this affect my output in terms of size? I exported just a 43sec patch as avi and God, it gave a 172MB file already!! I have a 1hr10min sequence here.
- Must I export to a file first (such as MP4 or avi etc as we download films) or I can burn straight to DVD? Really, I have high quality films I downloaded that only weighed like 900MB. How did they achieve that? Bc this is my first ever project I'd love to retain a copy as a file, not as DVD. But I will need burn the project to CD/DVD to hand to the sponsors. Please, what should I do generally? It will be screened at home, in Cameroon (i.e. not for TV etc. I know there are other considerations there. Just a private vid).
- And should I use preview files on exporting, does it affect quality? Remember I rendered the previews in the 720x576 sequence.

What should I do? What are the considerations? I'm excited to export this thing quickly and get it out of the way, bc the couple is getting anxious.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[LMotlow]

Looks like your best bet is to hand the 1080 footage over to someone who knows what they're doing.

[_Al_]

Does not Premiere have something like choosing preview with draft quality or similar? You set project to the same properties as your clips are. Just set something that preview is not rendered with 100% quality if your computer is not fast.

Export 1920x1080 same as original, sure scaling down affects quality. Imagine video 10x10 pixels, you would not make out anything on the screen, so 720x576 would be something in between. And 172MB and 43 s, that's about right for 1920x1080 video. It is camcorder video footage, not movie. You cannot compare encoding movie and camcorder footage. That goes for mp4. For DVD you export again from your timeline directly. If your original is interlaced, then DVD quality would be barely alright making it in Premiere but not sure if you'd manage to make DVD outside of Premiere with some lossless footage etc. But you can make longer times making DVD or just downscaling to similar dvd resolution.

Quality mp4, 1920x1080 , handed down would take about 100MB per minute (bare minimum) , so forget DVD delivery if content is longer than say 30-40 minutes etc.

[Crye]

Thanks, Al. This is much helpful info in just a minute.

Yes, PPro has monitor panel menus to view previews in 1/4, 1/2 and Full resolutions. But my PC is not so strong to fully benefit.

So if you were me at this point, what would you do? I want to get this out of the way as fast as possible so I could focus on learning more of these things with the experience so far. Someone also said using the 720x576 DV PAL preset degraded quality, but I was thinking at the end of editing 1080 footage in lower 720x576 DV PAL sequence preset I'd just copy timeline to a 1080 sequence. I did, and this is not still a way out on quality? (the frames became full though). I was basing my actions on this being 'non-destructive' NLE.

How should I now export (and deliver) it to sponsor, to safeguard quality and weight? DVD was just my thinking, since the sponsor has no USB or storage. I just want them to be able to use a deck or computer to play the media.

NOTE: If I can export to a 30gig file and burn to a single CD/DVD for example, it's fine with me. The issue is how to now proceed, and to deliver in a compact disc to watch on TV or computer. I just don't want to keep a 30gig wedding file in my PC.

[_Al_]

It looks like you would benefit recording those weddings with good DV camcorder and just export simple DVD. You do not want to edit it in High definition, you do not want to deliver it and even keep it in high definition.

You keep talking about quality but not wanting it at the same time.

If you want to edit footage in DVavi , then you'd need to encode those clips to DVavi before you start editing, not sure if Premiere has that feature. It is called proxy editing. Look at its manual. Then Premiere would encode those files to DVavi (or other format that is easy to decode0 and only after you are done with all editing, you'd switch those clips to original clips on your timeline and export whatever you want.

[glenpinn]

Your camera shoots 1080/25p avchd (MTS) @ 28Mbps, so edit the video in 1080p and output that to 1080/25p in an mp4 container, which can be played back on most HD TV's, because most HD TV's now have a built in media player so you just have your video on a usb stick or a portable Hdd and plug that into the USB port on the TV and watch it.

You could drop it to 720/25p mp4 @ 10 Mbps and still retain very good quality, and the video file size will drop to around 50% from the original, but to drop it to 720x576 Pal DVD would be a crime against quality, and why would you want to output to DVD just to get rid of the 30gb 1080p file.

These days Hard Drives are so cheap to buy, so for me, keeping a 3ogb 1080p video would be nothing, i even have some clients wedding videos that are up to 45gb (4 hours long) after editing has been done (these are the master copies which i retain for archiving)

[_Al_]

And what about his major problem, editing that HD footage.

[smrpix]

And what about his major problem, editing that HD footage.

As I understand it, the editing is done. Now all he needs to do is export it as a reasonable sized 1920x1080 25p mp4 and burn it to a data disk for playback.

Crye, be sure to delete all your 720x576 renders and re-render them at full resolution before exporting.

[aedipuss]

unless what's wanted is a "DVD" disc that plays in a dvd standalone player hooked up to a TV? then you need 720x576 interlaced mpeg-2 for authoring to dvd specs.

[glenpinn]

And what about his major problem, editing that HD footage.

He says that his video is about 70 minutes duration, which would be around 14gb in size, and he apparently had already edited the 1080p video in CS6, but was unsure what to export it to, because he is confused, which is why i told him to edit in 1080p and output back to 1080p @ 24Mbps in an MP4 container for playback support on most, if not all devices, and he should be retaining this file as his Master for Archiving.

If i was editing that video using my Video Redo Pro, that 1080/25p MTS Video would just be Smart Rendered to 1080/25p mp4 after editing, so it loses nothing in quality, all it does is places the Video from an MTS to an MP4 container.

If he can Smart Render the video after editing, he can use any computer to do this, because the only bits that are encoded are the titles, transitions (if there are any) and a few frames around any cuts in the video, and if it was downscaled to DVD format you don't need a super duper editing PC for this either, a reasonable dual core pc or laptop can easily do this type of editing/encoding work.

I never used any Adobe software for editing, so i am unsure if it can actually Smart Render video after editing, maybe someone here can clarify this for me.

He also says that he prefers to deliver a File based video rather than a DVD, which is what he should be doing, but the File based video should be the edited 1080/25p mp4, so all he has to do is then burn the 1080/25p mp4 video file to a single layer Bluray disc and let his sponsor work out how to play it, as the disc can be played in a BD player connected to his tv, and i would also get a 16gb USB Stick and put a copy of the video on that to play on his computer, or play it on his HD TV if it has a USB port with a built in media player.

This is not rocket science here, and if he wants to give his sponsor a copy on DVD then i am sure Adobe can do that for him using the 1080/25p mp4 as the source file, but the DVD version will never be close to the original 1080/25p video in quality, so i suggest that he stop thinking about DVD format completely, because it would be criminal to have such nice quality in 1080p and then present it in lower quality DVD.

Looks like your best bet is to hand the 1080 footage over to someone who knows what they're doing.

Yes, this is an option if it gets too much for him to work out for himself.

[usually_quiet]

This is not rocket science here, and if he wants to give his sponsor a copy on DVD then i am sure Adobe can do that for him using the 1080/25p mp4 as the source file, but the DVD version will never be close to the original 1080/25p video in quality, so i suggest that he stop thinking about DVD format completely, because it would be criminal to have such nice quality in 1080p and then present it in lower quality DVD.

You are starting to sound like a former member whose user name I will not mention.

Although the OP wants to keep a copy of the finished video for himself, this is apparently a wedding video, and the sponsor may have asked for a standard PAL DVD that plays on a regular DVD player. (It is hard for me to tell for sure what the sponsor wants on the DVD, based on the initial post in this thread.)

Don't forget that there are still many people who don't have a PC or any other devices capable of playing HD video at home, but do have a DVD player. Cameroon just switched over to digital TV broadcasts in June, so many of its citizens may not yet have an HDTV.

[glenpinn]

You are starting to sound like a former member whose user name I will not mention.

Please don't insult me with that sort of crap, as i was only trying to help, and my suggestion was very valid given the confusion displayed in the opening post.

Although the OP wants to keep a copy of the finished video for himself, this is apparently a wedding video, and the sponsor may have asked for a standard PAL DVD that plays on a regular DVD player. (It is hard for me to tell for sure what the sponsor wants on the DVD, based on the initial post in this thread.)

There you go, i tell him to edit in 1080p and retain that as the Archive copy, but what about the bit where i mentioned to down convert the 1080p video and output that to DVD if that is what the sponsor wants ??????

This is not rocket science here, and if he wants to give his sponsor a copy on DVD then i am sure Adobe can do that for him using the 1080/25p mp4 as the source file

I had no idea about the lack of devices or backwards TV broadcast in Camaroon (i am not a bloody mind reader) and the opening post was somewhat confusing as well, so i will bow out and let you lot sort this stuff out for the thread creator.

[usually_quiet]

You are starting to sound like a former member whose user name I will not mention.

Please don't insult me with that sort of crap, as i was only trying to help, and my suggestion was very valid given the confusion displayed in the opening post.

Although the OP wants to keep a copy of the finished video for himself, this is apparently a wedding video, and the sponsor may have asked for a standard PAL DVD that plays on a regular DVD player. (It is hard for me to tell for sure what the sponsor wants on the DVD, based on the initial post in this thread.)

There you go, i tell him to edit in 1080p and retain that as the Archive copy, but what about the bit where i mentioned to down convert the 1080p video and output that to DVD if that is what the sponsor wants ??????

This is not rocket science here, and if he wants to give his sponsor a copy on DVD then i am sure Adobe can do that for him using the 1080/25p mp4 as the source file

I had no idea about the lack of devices or backwards TV broadcast in Camaroon (i am not a bloody mind reader) and the opening post was somewhat confusing as well, so i will bow out and let you lot sort this stuff out for the thread creator.

It was a joke (hence the emoticn?) not insult. Sorry you took it the wrong way.

[glenpinn]

It was a joke (hence the emoticn?) not insult. Sorry you took it the wrong way.

My Apologies, i did see the emoticon, and i did wonder if it was just a joke or not, but i have had a real shitty day where nothing has gone right, and i probably just over reacted, so please ignore it.

Cheers

[Crye]

Hello guys. Thank you for all the input. I have now pasted the 720x576 timeline to a 1080 and everything looks fine as smrpix said, and I can now even painlessly use Warp Stabilizer.

Yes, as someone mentioned, Cameroon is not yet as advanced in digital TV. Just need something simple. Sponsor's not vetoing, but I decided to at least give him the highest "low" quality on CD-like media to play on their TV with a deck/player, and then offer him like a week to collect the heavy digital file if he wants to later burn to the true HD quality. So given that, what do I do now, export full quality and mediocre quality to see what happens with size? But first....

@smrpix (or anyone):

"export it as a reasonable sized 1920x1080 25p mp4 and burn it to a data disk for playback." --- I don't quite understand. Pls can you give approximate figure? ...and "burn" to data disk==>to VCD?

"Crye, be sure to delete all your 720x576 renders and re-render them at full resolution before exporting. " --- I did, bro.

[usually_quiet]

Hello guys. Thank you for all the input. I have now pasted the 720x576 timeline to a 1080 and everything looks fine as smrpix said, and I can now even painlessly use Warp Stabilizer.

Yes, as someone mentioned, Cameroon is not yet as advanced in digital TV. Just need something simple. Sponsor's not vetoing, but I decided to at least give him the highest "low" quality on CD-like media to play on their TV with a deck/player, and then offer him like a week to collect the heavy digital file if he wants to later burn to the true HD quality. So given that, what do I do now, export full quality and mediocre quality to see what happens with size? But first....

@smrpix (or anyone):

"export it as a reasonable sized 1920x1080 25p mp4 and burn it to a data disk for playback." --- I don't quite understand. Pls can you give approximate figure? ...and "burn" to data disk==>to VCD?

"Crye, be sure to delete all your 720x576 renders and re-render them at full resolution before exporting. " --- I did, bro.

If the sponsor has a DVD player, it will be much easier to create an authored video DVD than a VCD. Most of the VCD/SVCD authoring software in VideoHelp's software section has not been updated for at least 10 years and some probably doesn't work on a PC running Windows 7.

DVD video and audio would also be better quality than VCD. I don't use Adobe's products, but there is probably a profile available to use for exporting DVD-compatible video and audio. (16:9 576p25 MPEG-2 video and AC3 audio). It isn't hard to find good free and paid DVD authoring software. You may already have Adobe Encore.

If what I wrote above about authoring DVDs is new to you and time is short, then you really should consider turning the production of discs over to someone more experienced than you are.

MP4 is a popular container file format that is often used for H.264 video with AAC audio. I believe smrpix is suggesting that you use a DVD for storing the resulting HD MP4 file, not a CD. I don't use Adobe Premiere, but maybe smrpix can tell you what settings to use.

[Crye]

Hey usually_quiet...

Thank you abundantly for your time!

Ok, yeah, these processes often have easy wizards and Encore is there, and all these are almost always straightforward; you just need know what you're doing (settings desired streaming medium etc). I'll do that, but rem, 1080, not 576p. I moved to a 1080 sequence to match my footage. Ok, I have a DVD-R, 16x, 4.7GB disc. I'll just export with settings 16:9 (square pixels), 1080, 25p, MPEG-2 video and AC3 audio, right? Then be checking down there to see the output size. If a good 1080p preset can go for the 1hr 10min, then fine. Or I just split into 2 discs for better quality. I just hope this all sums to something!

I don't want to give this to an expert at this point, first bc the learning is indeed more to me than the job at this particular stage. 2ndly, it will be a terrible hassle carrying these files around. It's not like only the .prproj will be needed by the other guy. Except that I might be troubling you, I have no problem going through this on my own.

[LMotlow]

1080p square pixel can't be authored to DVD.
1080p square pixel can't be played by DVD players.
Are you ready to buy your client a BluRay player?

[usually_quiet]

Hey usually_quiet...

Thank you abundantly for your time!

Ok, yeah, these processes often have easy wizards and Encore is there, and all these are almost always straightforward; you just need know what you're doing (settings desired streaming medium etc). I'll do that, but rem, 1080, not 576p. I moved to a 1080 sequence to match my footage. Ok, I have a DVD-R, 16x, 4.7GB disc. I'll just export with settings 16:9 (square pixels), 1080, 25p, MPEG-2 video and AC3 audio, right? Then be checking down there to see the output size. If a good 1080p preset can go for the 1hr 10min, then fine. Or I just split into 2 discs for better quality. I just hope this all sums to something!

I don't want to give this to an expert at this point, first bc the learning is indeed more to me than the job at this particular stage. 2ndly, it will be a terrible hassle carrying these files around. It's not like only the .prproj will be needed by the other guy. Except that I might be troubling you, I have no problem going through this on my own.

A PC will play 16:9 (square pixels), 1080p25 MPEG-2 video, but if this is intended to be something your sponsor can play on his "deck", the "deck" had better be a recent Blu-Ray player able to play files burned as data. DVD players and VCD players cannot play HD video.

[Crye]

I can confirm they don't have such a recent player, but a normal DVD player. What do I do now? Burn to what? I need to burn, not give files. The priority is for them to be able to watch 'normally' on an average DVD player. If they want, they can get the heavy files for viewing on a PC. I also have 45gb of their raw footage here and the project file, if they want to do more. For now, I just need deliver what anyone can watch.

[Crye]

LOL @LMotlow...Ok, I just told you everything, what I have and the whole situation.

- I have a 1080, 25p sequence.
- Sponsor only has a normal DVD player.
- I have a DVD-R 16x, 4.7GB/120min.

And from what usually_quiet says, it looks like we need forget about HD now? So how would you deliver this? Scale sequence down?

[LMotlow]

PAL DVD is 720x576, 25fps.
DVD players cannot read HD video. Period.

[_Al_]

Sequence settings regarding resolution and scaling down is one thing, but that is only for editing and it should be set for clip properties, so 1920x1080. Other thing is setting preview window and also other thing is export setting, it is something else. Forget about sequence settings, you leave it 1920x1080. You only export to DVD and give it while exporting (you or Premiere) proper resolution.

You have three choices to author DVD,
1. Using proper DVD authoring program like DVD Encore, read manual, you can basically load the whole Premiere timeline into DVD Encore , and that software makes DVD. Of course you need to read manual how to work with DVD Encore. At the end you put DVD into your DVD drive and Encore will make DVD that you can play in any DVD player.

2.Export proper video from Premiere with DVD specs. Load that or separate video stream (m2v, 720x576) and audio stream (AC3) into any DVD authoring program and that program will make DVD that you can play in any DVD player. This , not sure if you can manage, it is a bit advanced.

3.Export DVD directly from Premiere's timeline, I think there is option for that. If not someone correct me. Premiere makes everything automatically, perhaps audio would be PCM but that is OK, 1hour 10 minut is fine with PCM audio (PCM audio gives larger files because it is uncompressed)


There is another solution to put your video onto DVD but playable only in computer, not DVD player. You just export mp4 video file from Premiere so file would be less than 4.2 GB and burn it on DVD as data. Of course DVD player would not play it, only computer, so it might be not a good solution BUT it you would deliver a bit better quality you keep talking here. Export mp4, you say video is 1hour 10 minutes, so set video to 960x540 (maybe even 1280x720 if content is clean, lit, and you keep camera steady) give it average bitrate 7500kbps, make sure you set 2pass VBR (variable bitrate), 25fps, audio set to 128kbps. If you do not understand this, get manual and read something about how to export mp4, what it involves etc.
Then you'd need to burn that mp4 onto that DVD disc, using Windows burner or something. You do not necesarily need to burn that mp4 to DVD. At this point perhaps thumbdrive would work as well.

[Crye]

Sequence settings regarding resolution and scaling down is one thing, but that is only for editing and it should be set for clip properties, so 1920x1080. Other thing is setting preview window and also other thing is export setting, it is something else. Forget about sequence settings, you leave it 1920x1080. You only export to DVD and give it while exporting (you or Premiere) proper resolution.

You have three choices to author DVD

That's pretty much it, thank you! ...

Now I understand sth new: You have diff quality sequences (which you enjoy during editing) output-able to diff quality/res - hence deliverability in low-res (non-HD) which DVD players can run - but same pixel dimensions or frame size (if that's correct). Meaning there can be low-res "1920x1080" video on any disc but not on the TL (well, monitor/preview res aside, and not proxies used). The low res has fewer colours/saturation, hence lighter.

I think this can all be sort of likened to FL Studio or those other music DAWs where we program sounds and choose say uncompressed .WAV (for further processing, say) or washed out .MP3 exports. I always say these things are cousins, each with its own genius.

I'll try your list top-down with size/quality strong in mind. I'm really grateful for your patience. Even though not much, I'm more familiar with theory (such as with authoring with encore) than practical experience. I even know my TL markers will automate some entries upon DVD authoring. It's actually my very first exporting experience, so...

[Crye]

Hey guys, here's update:

Building a DVD (720x576) from my 1080 footage in Encore and premiere itself exported no sound.

Research then pointed me to go by using the Mpeg2-DV preset with my 1080 sequence to give a vid and audio file (separate) and link later.

PROB:

The export has finally ended after over 35 hours and now I find "Media offline" around the end of the vid, over Title clips in TL, and I'm sure this is because the clips didn't match the sequence setting?? (NOTE: I had copied from a 720x576 to a 1080 sequence before the export. I didn't bother to render the 1080 TL since I had already checked through in the source 720x576 sequence that was fully rendered. I didn't 'use renders' upon exporting).

Now is there a way to rectify just that part and export just the video and then go link with the main large vid?


So...one thing to the other, then the next and then another. This matter never ends?? Is this how it will be?

[smrpix]

Try simply dropping your 720x576 timeline into Encore. Don't render, don't export, just drag and drop the timeline straight from Premiere. Scroll through in Encore and make sure everything's there. Let Encore worry about making DVD compliant files.

[Crye]

Ok I'll try that. I was just worrying after a long wait sth might happen again. I exported this vid with highest render settings and bitrate etc, so I was looking not to waste it. Since the bad part is in closing titles, I could just patch somehow instead of starting a blind walk all over. I badly need to hand over this crazy project bro.... then I can settle to use some files to learn this and make my presets for future.

I already rendered the 720x576. I suspect this isn't a problem under your suggestion. I don't like using renders since you don't know which ones get used. Long file names etc, you can't find them.