Weird judder in encoded mp4?

[LMotlow]

I'd also guess that all you guys use command line encoding (considering you're all well-versed on encoding) rather than GUIs.

Not so. Many do use command line versions of x264 or ffmpeg, but there are front end GUI's for those encoders. Popular GUI encoding apps are SONY Movie Studio and Vegas Pro, TMPGEnc Smart Renderer, TMPGEnc Mastering Works, HCenc, Adobe Premiere Elements and Premiere Pro, Final Cut Pro, and a host of freebies that vary in features and complexity such as TX264 and MEGUI. If you look at a MediaInfo data readout of the technical data for mthe 23.976 mkv I posted earlier, you'll see that it was encoded with a GUI app (TMPGEnc Video Mastering Works 5). I could just as well have used another way, but it happened to be loaded on my desktop and was ready to run.

From that perspective, using the original .vobs might well be the only way to go, but for us lesser folk - loading a number of .vob files into a GUI can cause problems - least of which is the encoding time.

There are free apps that take a bunch of VOBs off disc and copy them into a single MPEG. MPEG is both a codec and a container, and VOBs are MPEG containers as well. Repairing and thus re-encoding a VOB that has problems is one thing, but taking the time to change containers and/or re-encode a decent video is a waste. A DVD VIDEO_TS can be read, decrypted if necessary, and copied intact to a server or hard drive and played as-is, which is a few minutes to copy and zero encoding time. Repairing bad encodes is one thing, but doing it just to say "Hi, now I'm h264 in a mkv container" or "Guess what? Now I'm mpg disguised as mkv!" is a waste of time, and re-encoding is a quality loss -- re-encoding lossy videos for the heck of it loses 15% to 25% of the original data. So to say that the re-encode looks "identical" is nonsense. There's no way a re-encode is identical to the original.

[The.King]

There are free apps that take a bunch of VOBs off disc and copy them into a single MPEG.

Brilliant, would you care to name a good one (or more) like you did about front-end encoders above?

Repairing and thus re-encoding a VOB that has problems is one thing, but taking the time to change containers and/or re-encode a decent video is a waste.

With all due respect - I never even heard of Makemkv until two days ago (let alone used it). I was having a problem loading all the .vob's into a GUI, did a quick search and found a thread where people were saying how good Makemkv was, all .vob's into one .mkv, no hassle, encoded great, blah, blah, blah - so I gave it a try and the results were fine. I certainly didn't have the problem of trying to load all the .vob's anyway. Furthermore, the thread was on this very site somewhere.

Whatever about just loading a .vob onto a PC or laptop and playing it directly; (a) I don't care much for 'menus', 'special features', 'commentary', a second, third, or even fourth foreign language, etc. and as I said before (b) I don't need to be taking up 4.37GB or 8+GB (dual layer) with a load of .vob files when an encode would take up much less space. If you can name a few of the free apps you mentioned above, I'll give them a shot and scrap using Makemkv altogether.

So to say that the re-encode looks "identical" is nonsense. There's no way a re-encode is identical to the original.

I think you might have picked me up wrong? I never said that the encoded file was the same as the original. What I implied was that, an x264 encode from the "Makemkv" single .mkv file was as good (if not slightly better) than the x264 encode I made from the bunch of .vob's. Obviously neither encode was as good as the original .vob's themselves - I never said that. I'm saying of the 2 x .mkv files I got via x264 after the encoding was finished on both counts, the one from the Makemkv source was better than the one from all the .vob's as the source.

[jagabo]

There are free apps that take a bunch of VOBs off disc and copy them into a single MPEG.

Brilliant, would you care to name a good one (or more) like you did about front-end encoders above?

vob2mpg, mpg2cut2. Note that those programs don't decrypt commercial DVDs.

[manono]

I'd also guess that all you guys use command line encoding (considering you're all well-versed on encoding) rather than GUIs.

Not I. I have no interest in command line anything and find AviSynth's scripts much different, if not exactly easier. No, I open AviSynth scripts into encoders (with GUIs) that accept them.

As for your field-blended video, AviSynth is the only way to unblend something like that. You can have a $20,000 piece of software and the free AviSynth will beat it hands down. Of course, professionals using those $20,000 programs don't run up against field-blended garbage.

Brilliant, would you care to name a good one (or more) like you did about front-end encoders above?

If you're reencoding a DVD and using an AviSynth script on it, then you'd have no use for VOB2MPEG and the others because the best way to open your DVD in a script is by making the D2V of the entire thing and using MPEG2Source on it.

[LMotlow]

There are DVD decrypters around, some paid, some free, with the paid guys updated more often: AnyDVD and DVD HD, DVD Decrypter, DVDFab HD Decrypter. Folks say they work, but personally I'm against fooling around with copyrighted retail prints so I don't use them. I haven't used the freebie DVD->MPG transfer apps either, it's easier with TMPGEnc MPEG Smart Renderer (aka TMSR) or my trusty old v1 and v3 of their MPEG Editors. They all read more formats than MPEG and also handle those pesky Panasonic VRO recordings made on DVD recorders. TMSR can handle HD formats.

I went haywire couple of years ago and built a little HTPC with the Hauppauge HD PVR in it that makes HD captures off cable TV. All those PVR's capture to oddball AVCHD formats that give a tough time to a lot of software because they're just non-compatible enough not to be smart-renderable sometimes, often have audio sync issues, and are not directly BluRay compliant -- if they were, you can bet your boots that the software would be pulled off the market pronto. Most of those HD's are going into external hard drives anyway for my BluRay players. If TMSR has a problem with 'em (TMSR can be really strict about HD specs), a quick edit run through VideoReDo makes them smart renderable, but doesn't always fix the audio sync problems -- so the VideoReDo 5-minute reorganization goes into TMSR, gets smart rendered with the commercials and other detritus cut out, the audio gets resampled, the video is smart-rendred (not re-encoded) and the result goes onto a hard drive or gets authored to disc with TMPGEnc Authoring Works. A few get the Avisynth treatment, downscaled for DVD and encoded/authored.

I had 4 DVD recorders at one time, two Panasonics and two Toshibas. No I'm not that well heeled, these were half priced factory refurbs. As usual the Pannies didn't live that long, but the Toshibas are still going 12 years later. Dare I say I was recording DVD's off cable day and night, 52 weeks a year? Yes, I dare. And still do, occasionally, for stuff that gets broadcast at the cruel hour of 3:30 AM. The Fair Use Act is still on the books over here these days. No, those cable broadcasts ain't as crisp as retail DVDs, but if you're into classic movies and old TV there are few retail DVD prints out there. The recordings get edited in the recorder with ads and lead-in/lead-out material removed and then authored, and they stay otherwise intact as DVD. Some of them get copied to the PC and joined on dual layer DVD's, without re-encoding. I've upscaled a few of those letterboxed wide screen jobs to HD, but frankly it wasn't worth the trouble with a good recorder, good players, good TV's, and a decent image to begin with. I play them as they are and they look fine, not faultless but as clean as they looked during the original broadcast.

What do I do if I get a crumby DVD like those covered here and elsewhere? Well....I don't get them. Really. I have collections of old flicks with half-size encoding and soft images, but after a while you catch on that "improving" them is an exercise in futility. No, they don't look as borked as some of the stuff we see here because they're at least competently produced and play just fine.

Then there are the godawful old tapes from the 1990's. Okay, not to get into the high end VCR's and other hardware for getting them to the PC, but even with the good stuff VHS is still a nightmare. Avisynth is really the only way to clean up that garbage. They won't look like "DVD", but they won't look like VHS either.

The only timeline "editor" I use is Adobe After Effects, always with lossless media, and encoded with other encoders. If you spend 6 months learning to use AE, you can get terrific Ken Burns style slide shows (and a lot of those pics get resized as needed in Avisynth. AE is pretty good stuff, but Avisynth resizes better). I often use AE for color correction, and have had to make contrast masks and color grading layers to correct things like a tape capture that was stained bluish on one side of the image. AE is used for title work and those kinds of fancy features, for those horrible family tapes people keep sending me, which always have to be cleaned in Avisynth. I don't use budget or popular NLE's for this: the budget jobs are too limited, and even with big names like Adobe and Sony I don't feel like paying for their encoders when I have better ones lying around.

If I have to encode or re-encode a cleanup job, it goes to strict standard DVD or BluRay/AVCHD formats. I don't make them into mp4, mkv, Avi, QuickTime, or anything else. They give me no playback problems. I don't need special players, codecs, or other hardware to use them. Any decent player or TV can handle video processed to documented standards with good encoders and authoring apps.

And since I mentioned smart rendering: Smart rendering apps, most of them paid software, can make frame-specific cuts and joins without re-encoding the whole video. The only re-encoding is in the few GOP's or frames in the cut area. With good encoder engines you'll have a tough time picking out the smart-rendered frames. The smart renderers I use are from VideoReDo and TMPGEnc. Other cutter apps can make cuts and joins, but most cut only on key frames to avoid re-encoding. If you're removing commercials or unwanted scenes from an encoded video and you have to cut only on key frames, you have to live with stuff like the last 11 frames of a commercial that happens to be in that GOP. Some key-frame cutters will produce a pause where the cut was made, depending on how their methods made that cut. If it's one of those long GOP internet downloads, a GOP can go on for several seconds with the wrong kind of cutter.

Other folks here use all kinds of stuff for the same work. That's just to let you know, makemkv ain't the only tool around and it's not always the best tool. Depends on what you want to do. There's plenty to keep everybody busy.

[jagabo]

If you're reencoding a DVD and using an AviSynth script on it, then you'd have no use for VOB2MPEG and the others because the best way to open your DVD in a script is by making the D2V of the entire thing and using MPEG2Source on it.

I have a few DVDs with two titles interleaved every few seconds in the VOBs. The only way I've found to easily separate the two titles is to use VOB2MPG. But you are right, normally you just load all the VOBs into DgIndex and produce a single d2v file.

[manono]

I have a few DVDs with two titles interleaved every few seconds in the VOBs. The only way I've found to easily separate the two titles is to use VOB2MPG.

Right, although it's been awhile since I've worked with one of those, DVD Decrypter can decrypt by angle. If it's a more modern film with more advanced encryption, after decrypting PGCDemux can also extract one or another of the angles. Yes, an extra step is often needed in such cases.

[The.King]

Not I. I have no interest in command line anything and find AviSynth's scripts much different, if not exactly easier.

Well this should serve to show you all how little I know about AviSynth and/or command line encoding....... Quite simply, I thought they were both the same thing which from your post, they're obviously not? (P.S., I get that command line encoding is using something like 'cmd.exe' (or old DOS, if you will) to run the process of encoding whereas Avisynth is using an .avs script) but for an FNG, it's pretty much the same thing. i.e. Learning to type instructions in some weird Putonghua dialect and having to learn what each instruction means and how to actually type it without getting 'errors' when the .avs is eventually loaded.)

No, I open AviSynth scripts into encoders (with GUIs) that accept them.

Ok so, here's a couple of Q's for ya...

(1) If I somehow wanted to die of a very slow & painful death by reading everything I can find about Avisynth, I take it that a very good place to start would be to read all of the 243 html's found here: C:\Program Files\AviSynth+\docs\English ?? YES = 243 of them!!!
(2) If there is a better "go to" place for learning Avisynth, i.e. to teach the most commonly used commands most people will typically encounter (and what those commands actually mean in ENGLISH) - then please let me know. The death might not be so painful then?
(3) By "GUI's that accept them", the two I'm familiar with are Staxrip & Hybrid. Staxrip would pose a problem in that the x64 version I was using cannot operate QTGMC because QTGMC is only 32-bit. (It can via VapourSynth or something, but that's just going to confuse the issue for me - so let's leave it.) Hybrid (x86) on the other hand has QTGMC embedded as part of the set-up.exe, so it's one less headache for me and at least if I was to throw a bunch of Avisynth scripts at it (which included QTGMC) then it wouldn't have a problem. So here's the thing........do I just open Hybrid (we'll say), load the source and then skip all the encoding options, just go straight to the command line tab and (a) copy/paste the inner contents of my .avs file or (b) try to somehow point it to the location of the .avs file itself? I assume it would be 'a', but I need to ask.
(4) If not, then what GUI do you use and is the process the same as in '3' above?

As for your field-blended video, AviSynth is the only way to unblend something like that.

This would be the key reason why I might try to die of a slow & painful death with Avisynth. I don't come across that many DVD's anymore ("Thankfully"), but when I do - most of them are always problematic 'field-blended' crap or some other weird concoction which always lends to needing sRestore and that bob() thing. I very rarely come across a straight NTSC interlaced DVD which causes no problems. The downside to living in "PAL Land" no doubt & the crappy 25frames/sec, for even rare DVD's which would have been filmed, edited, produced & marketed locally, still tend to have a weird blend on the released DVD. I vaguely remember years ago, wasting days upon days trying to sort out a botched PAL DVD source without having any success (these were the days before being a member here) and in the end, I had to wait a few months before it was released State-side, buy the NTSC version of it on DVD and encoded it in about 6hrs without any hassle whatsoever!

If you're reencoding a DVD and using an AviSynth script on it, then you'd have no use for VOB2MPEG and the others because the best way to open your DVD in a script is by making the D2V of the entire thing and using MPEG2Source on it.

Thanks for clarifying that. Good to know.

[manono]

(1) If I somehow wanted to die of a very slow & painful death by reading everything I can find about Avisynth...

You obviously have no interest in learning it so what's the point? The best I can do is to suggest the use of programs that use it already and that allow you to choose the filters to use and (maybe, if it's not too difficult for you) edit the scripts it creates for you.
One such program is XviD4PSP, the 5.xx.xxx versions. I use RipBot264, but don't use any of the filters it includes as any filtering I want I've already done. I've never used it but MeGUI is another program that is AviSynth all the way. It has a pretty steep learning curve, though.

...do I just open Hybrid (we'll say), load the source...

The programs that use AviSynth allow you to open an AVS (an AviSynth script file with the extension .avs) just as you would a regular video. They'll also open videos in a variety of formats, create the scripts for you, and then allow you to filter them in various ways, also using AviSynth filters. Studying the scripts that are created is a good way to learn your way around AviSynth.

[The.King]

You obviously have no interest in learning it so what's the point?

That's a bit of an unfair assumption on your part. No, Avisynth doesn't look particularly 'easy' or 'time friendly' to learn for anyone new to it, but perhaps that's because no one has explained it in a clear & concise way? If they did, half of the posts in this forum probably wouldn't exist. We're all different and whether you have a better aptitude or not for learning video encoding than others, you were in my position once upon a time and it's always helpful when people in your position remember that.
Everyone prefers the option of just "throwing the book at you" and expects you to figure it all out for yourself with the aid of some technical jargon. It's always a "follow this link and read all of the info for two days", or "write this script, run it through this program you've possibly never even heard of before and you'll figure out the rest for yourself" kind of thing. I'm sure walking didn't look particularly easy or time friendly at one point in most people's life either, but we got the hang of it eventually with a bit of guidance & encouragement, not by referral - and now we all take it for granted.

The best I can do is to suggest the use of programs and (maybe, if it's not too difficult for you) edit the scripts it creates for you.

There's no need to be condescending here, which is precisely what that was. I didn't specifically ask for your assistance at any stage in the process - you volunteered, so if you can't offer any help without the lure of being patronising - then don't attempt to help. All it does is drag this thread to a lower level, deflects attention away from the issue being addressed by other kind folk and lessens the integrity of this very forum.

One such program is XviD4PSP, the 5.xx.xxx versions. I use RipBot264, but don't use any of the filters it includes as any filtering I want I've already done. I've never used it but MeGUI is another program that is AviSynth all the way. It has a pretty steep learning curve, though.

What's the point in having to learn 1, 2, or 3 new GUI's in addition to learning Avisynth when both of the GUI's I mentioned and am familiar with (Staxrip & Hybrid) also auto-create .avs files, use Avisynth and allow you to edit the .avs scripts (if one knew what one was doing, or understood what each line in the script actually meant, instead of looking like Putonghua dialect?)

Studying the scripts that are created is a good way to learn your way around AviSynth.

Is that another proverbial book being thrown? How could that be? Nine times out of ten, when I've used Staxrip to encode something -> aside from the encoding settings such as (this one is not mine, I just copy pasted from the web).....

abac=1 / ref=4 / deblock=1:-3:-3 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=10 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=32 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=0 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=4 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=23 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=60 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=10136 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00

.....the only Avisynth filters I have ever see in the auto-created .avs file are these...

AVCSource("D:\Downloads\movie\movie temp files\movie.dga")
Crop(0,0, -Width % 8,-Height % 8)
ConvertToYV12()
Yadif()

From the filters I see, I understand what 'cropping' is, I don't have a clue what YV12 is? (thought it was something to do with Chroma - which I assume is colour level or temp.) and Yadif is a basic/quick deinterlacer, so class is dismissed in that case. There's not exactly a lot to learn there in terms of Avisynth filters and no one seems capable of posting or copy/pasting their own list of regularly used Avisynth filters with a brief explanation of what each one means. That would be a much better way to start the process of learning about Avisynth but again, people deflect and throw a book....

[jagabo]

I'd also guess that all you guys use command line encoding

I do. It's actually easier once you learn the basics. I have a batch file on the desktop that invokes x264.exe. I can just drag/drop AVS scripts onto it. I can edit it with Notepad to modify it when necessary. The batch file includes a lot of notes and sample commands so I can quickly cut/paste to customize the command line, but the basic encoder command looks like:

start /b /low x264.exe --preset=slow --tune=animation --crf=18 --sar=1:1 --colormatrix=bt709 --output %1.mkv %1

"start /b /low" starts x264.exe at low priority so the computer is still usable while encoding. x264 has lots of presets which set a bunch of default options. You can also add a tuning option with further modifies some of the settings (most commonly used are animation, film, and grain). You can follow that with your own options to override the preset and tuning, if necessary. Finally is the output filename and the input file. Here the output name is just".mkv" added to the name of the AVS script. So if the script is named filename.avs, the output file will be named filename.avs.mkv (and the container will be mkv).

Sometimes I copy this prototype batch file to a folder for a particular video when I'm working on it. You can also put the batch file in your Send To folder and send any AVS script to it by right clicking on the script and selecting Send To -> batchfilename.bat.

Yes, you have to learn what some of the command line options are and what they do. But you largely have to do that with a GUI too.

x264 presets: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/351126-Encode-50p-clip?p=2202086&viewfull=1#post2202086

[LMotlow]

Learning to type instructions in some weird Putonghua dialect and having to learn what each instruction means and how to actually type it without getting 'errors' when the .avs is eventually loaded.)

Who types? Mostly I just copy Avisynth from text files of templates and statements I use over and over. I might have to change one of the parameters or values sometimes to suit the situation, but how much trouble is that?

(1) If I somehow wanted to die of a very slow & painful death by reading everything I can find about Avisynth, I take it that a very good place to start would be to read all of the 243 html's found here: C:\Program Files\AviSynth+\docs\English ?? YES = 243 of them!!!

LOL, who reads Avisynth docs that way? Why not go to the All Programs list, find the Avisynth program item, expand the folder and click on "Avisynth documentation". You get the Getting Started page, where on the left-hand side is a panel that HMTL folks called the TOC panel (Table of Contents). Click one of those items and go directly to what you want. As for 243 commands and functions, you won't use all 243. 50 at most, probably less. How many times would you need the cosine or TCPServer functions? For the kind of work most of us do, the answer is Never.

I made a desktop shortcut out of that "AVisynth documentation" program item and just click on the shortcut.

(2) If there is a better "go to" place for learning Avisynth, i.e. to teach the most commonly used commands most people will typically encounter (and what those commands actually mean in ENGLISH) - then please let me know. The death might not be so painful then?

Like many here I learned this stuff by following threads in the Restoration section and others. There are years of threads in there -- so many that I followed this forum for 5 or 6 years and searched it on Google, but finally had to sign up to make searching a lot easier.

I can think of three sources. None is perfect. Some of it hasn't been updated in a while. Much of the information hasn't changed, and the basics are still basic. Tell the truth, though, they get into complications and obsolete plugins that confuse newcomers, even going into old-timers like VirtualDubMod. AfterDark.com has an Avisynth guide, but you'd be perplexed to see that the tutorials don't start with Avisynth at all. They start with a Digital Fundamentals section that gets into frame structure, colorspace, lossy compression issues, and all that. It's not really a detour. It's stuff you should know, whether you use Avisynth or not.

Then it goes into Avisynth and talks about stuff like scripting, opening sources, basic interlace operations, cropping and borders, resizing, inverse telecine....for what you're doing, you'll use some of that but certainly not all of it. They also mention some editors that are more complicated than they're worth, and stuff like AvspMOD which is too buggy and klutzy IMO, and if you don't know Avisynth to begin with it's a big hassle to master. Which leads me to this:

(3) By "GUI's that accept them", the two I'm familiar with are Staxrip & Hybrid.

I don't use any of the popular "GUIs" to run Avisynth scripts. I run Avisynth in VirtualDub, which is a GUI. It's not a do-everything piece of work, but it's a video reader and processor in its own right with over 200 filters available. No, it doesn't come with a timeline or built-in encoders although you can add decoders, encoders, and compressors if you want.

Lots of folks get backed into corners by using all-in-one GUIs. Really, there's no GUI or all in one that does everything, and many of them don't get much of it right in the first place. The PC industry has seduced the average user into gimmicks like wizards and one-stop-shopping NLE's, marketing them as flawless read-my-mind shortcuts for everything. I've used a bunch of NLE's and free GUIs, but they're either gone or just sit unused. With most of them you don't (can't) learn anything about what you're doing. And if you do all the time-consuming processing from source to final encoded output in one stream but change your mind about any one step or make a mistake, you have to sit and run the whole thing all over again. The usual converters and transcoders are pretty popular, but transcoding and re-encoding seldom improve anything. It's a popular kick now to re-encode DVD to h264 because people have been sold on the myth that h264 is "better" than anything else, which is point by point either partially true, completely untrue, or just nonsense.

This statement got me:

I vaguely remember years ago, wasting days upon days trying to sort out a botched PAL DVD source without having any success (these were the days before being a member here) and in the end, I had to wait a few months before it was released State-side, buy the NTSC version of it on DVD and encoded it in about 6hrs without any hassle whatsoever!

Why? Re-encoding good retail DVD is a destructive waste of time. And making copies of retail DVD for your buddies is against the law. I'm surprised you admit it in broad daylight.

You can try the AfterDawn guide if you like. Take it with a grain of salt, but it does have a lot of basic info you could use. http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/using_avisynth.cfm

From the filters I see, I understand what 'cropping' is, I don't have a clue what YV12 is? (thought it was something to do with Chroma - which I assume is colour level or temp.)

DVD and BluRay are encoded using a YV12 colorspace. It is a system for storing video luma and chroma information. Like most YUV color schemes, YV12 stores luma (aka luiminance or brightness to you and me) and chroma or color data separately. This is in contrast to RGB, which is used for display hardware and stores luma and chroma data for each pixel in the same storage bits.

[jagabo]

YV12 is a different way or representing color video. It is based on the way TV signals worked. When there was only black and white TV only a greyscale brightness signal was transmitted. When color TV was developed they needed a way to broadcast a signal that was compatible with all BW TV. So the color signal consists of a greyscale brightness plus two chroma signals. A color TV would added/subtracted the chroma signals from the greyscale signal to give a final color picture. YUV is basically a rotation and scaling of the RGB axis. You can see a picture of the RGB cube inside the YUV cube here:

https://software.intel.com/en-us/node/503873

The model that's used for digital video is depicted under "RGB Colors Cube in the YCbCr Space".

[The.King]

LOL, who reads Avisynth docs that way? Why not go to the All Programs list, find the Avisynth program item, expand the folder and click on "Avisynth documentation". You get the Getting Started page, where on the left-hand side is a panel that HMTL folks called the TOC panel (Table of Contents). Click one of those items and go directly to what you want.

That's exactly where I'm at. I may have taken a different route, but I'm on that page with the TOC. It still doesn't take away from there being 243 HTML's in the docs folder.

Like many here I learned this stuff by following threads in the Restoration section and others. There are years of threads in there -- so many that I followed this forum for 5 or 6 years and searched it on Google, but finally had to sign up to make searching a lot easier.

I appreciate that and a lot of the other paragraphs you've written but, (and without taking this the wrong way) I just don't have the time. Sorting out a couple of videos and converting stuff from 5GB-8GB DVD down to something more manageable (and something that will play on devices which won't accept .vob) is something I only need to do a few times a year. I have a career and I'm not even in the country half of the time. Then there's family, a wife, kids, a new baby, mates, and "life in general". Who has the time to sit down at a PC for days on end anymore trying to figure this kind of stuff out? Yes I'd like to convert video without screwing up frames or ruining the end result (and most of the time this IS the case, even with an automated GUI's like Staxrip or Hybrid that none of you folk seem to use), but seriously - I'm not doing this for a hobby or to make a living, and that's precisely why I never got into the major technical jargon, writing codes/scripts and/or using command lines. As much as I like to do it when I get the time, the reality is 'life's too short' and there's a million other things to do. Perhaps what you can do today with encoding (and your extensive knowledge about it) might only take you a few minutes to set up, change a script, whatever, and then run it - but all you folk need to take stock, think about it for a second and remember what it was like when you were in my shoes once upon a time. Then add a wife, career, kids, new baby, etc. to the mix and see how you feel about it then.

This statement got me:
Why? Re-encoding good retail DVD is a destructive waste of time. And making copies of retail DVD for your buddies is against the law. I'm surprised you admit it in broad daylight.

(a) For the reasons I've already mentioned a few times now. (b) Perhaps where you come from it is, but it's a silly accusation for you to make. I'm not making illegal copies of anything for anyone - including my 'buddies'. The law in my country states that as the owner of such material, I am entitled to make a back-up copy of it (in the event of damage etc.) but without distributing it. Of course it's a grey area, but I have no problem with it because I am not taking advantage of it. And furthermore, the DVD in question was a documentary, exempt from classification, was aired on the TV over here several times (where anyone with a VCR or DVD Recorder could have copied it and done as they pleased with it) and it had no macro/copy protection on it. It's not like it was some feature film - but even if it was, I am still permitted to take a backup copy of it if I know how.

Anyway, we are gone a little off topic here and the thread is being dragged along with copious amounts of intricate details & technical jargon. I will bow out now and will leave by expressing my sincere thanks to everyone in this thread for your valued time, wisdom, information and help. I genuinely appreciate it and I would never have figured out the issue (or gotten as many headaches in the process ) if it wasn't for you guys. So sincere thanks to: LMotlow, jagabo, poisondeathray, blud7, and manono (despite the condescending tones) and anyone else I may have forgotten. You guys are the reason why I always come back to this forum when I run into trouble. (If you could just find a way to upload your knowledge, that would be great )

Ooooh, and thanks for that diagram jagobo, but it looked like a Maths question. Nearly had an aneurysm just looking at it and it reminded why I always hated school. I prefer this....

[jagabo]

It still doesn't take away from there being 243 HTML's in the docs folder.

You should be glad there are 243 html files. It's an indication that AviSynth is fairly well documented and that that documentation is reasonably well organized.

Yes I'd like to convert video without screwing up frames or ruining the end result (and most of the time this IS the case, even with an automated GUI's like Staxrip or Hybrid that none of you folk seem to use)

Then you have to live with what they can give you. For backup purposes you don't need to convert at all. You could just rip to VIDEO_TS folders. Or to MPG file. Or MPEG 2 in MKV or MP4. Decent players can handle all of those and will play them just as well as the original DVD on a DVD player.

Ooooh, and thanks for that diagram jagobo, but it looked like a Maths question. Nearly had an aneurysm just looking at it and it reminded why I always hated school. I prefer this....

[Attachment 33626 - Click to enlarge]

Actually, it essentially is that. Just in three dimensions, not two.

[The.King]

Just when I thought I'd start with a clean slate & begin to learn about Avisynth scripts - this happens...

So I've re-imaged my entire rig over the weekend (long overdue, was getting very slow, etc.) and I now have a very quick 'like new' machine with nothing on it except the OS. I've been installing all required software from scratch and now I've come to installing video converters/encoders/avisynth/codec packs/etc.

So - sticking with a 32-bit version of things (even though my PC/OS are 64-bit) I downloaded the latest Avisynth 2.60 and installed it. It sits on my C-drive here: C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth. Also added my codec pack (K-Lite_Codec_Pack_1140_Mega) and standard stuff like DGMPGDec, VirtualDub, etc. I haven't even gotten to QTGMC yet, but I know from earlier that it too goes at the above (red) path - well the .avsi & html files do.

Having installed the main things, I just created a bog standard .avs script to see that Avisynth was installed - i.e. version(). When I try to play this through MPC (like I've done a load of times over the last few weeks) I keep getting a message to say: 'cannot render the file'?

I've uninstalled Avisynth, run C-Cleaner, cleaned my reg (even though it's a brand new re-image) and installed it again. Still get the same error?

Also (this will show (a) how little I know about Avisynth and (b) how long it's been since I last installed programmes associated with it), but shouldn't there be a plugin pack for Avisynth or something??

I can't remember from the last time I did it - but I do recall there being a tonne of .dll's, HTML, folders, .avsi's, etc. in the Avisynth plugins folder, whereas now - after a fresh install - there's practically nothing in there??? What about the likes of MT mask tools 2.6, nnedi, add grain, remove grain, and all those other plugins?? Shouldn't they be in the Avisynth plugins folder after a fresh install? I quickly searched for a 'plugins pack' but the search results was a bit like opening Pandora's box.

See photos attached for the 'path' and contents of path which is looking a little anorexic.

Has anyone an idea of (1) what I'm doing wrong - i.e. in order for version() to actually show Avisynth 2.60 and (2) how I go about obtaining the right plugins pack instead of having to download things individually?

Finally, can I also ask - when it comes to the likes of DGMPGDec, VirtualDub, etc. - should these all be in their own folders within C:\Program Files (x86)\, or should they be added to the Avisynth folder / plugins folder somehow?

Thanks.

[jagabo]

I just created a bog standard .avs script to see that Avisynth was installed - i.e. version(). When I try to play this through MPC (like I've done a load of times over the last few weeks) I keep getting a message to say: 'cannot render the file'?

Did you use 32 bit MPC? 64 bit players can't use 32 bit AviSynth. Try opening your script with 32 bit VirtualDub.

[The.King]

Nope, using a 32-bit version of everything.

Just for clarity, my PC & OS are 64-bit, but EVERYTHING for the sake of converting/encoding etc. is entirely 32-bit. Everything.

how I go about obtaining the right plugins pack instead of having to download things individually?

can I also ask - when it comes to the likes of DGMPGDec, VirtualDub, etc. - should these all be in their own folders within C:\Program Files (x86)\, or should they be added to the Avisynth folder / plugins folder somehow?

[jagabo]

can I also ask - when it comes to the likes of DGMPGDec, VirtualDub, etc. - should these all be in their own folders within C:\Program Files (x86)\, or should they be added to the Avisynth folder / plugins folder somehow?

You can put them wherever you want. But if you want them to auto load every time AviSynth starts you put the dll and AVSI files in AviSynth's Plugins folder. Under 64 bit windows and 32 bit AviSynth that would usually be: "C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\Plugins." If you don't put them there you will need to manually load them in your script with:

LoadPlugin("c:\path to\plugin.dll")
Import("c:\path to\filename.avsi")

[The.King]

But if you want them to auto load every time AviSynth starts you put the dll and AVSI files in AviSynth's Plugins folder.

Thanks, I'd prefer for them to load automatically every time, so I'll put the .dll & .avsi file where you suggested.

In the event of DEMPGDec though, there is no .avsi file? (There is only a .exe file, a .dll file, 4 x html's, 3 x txt files & a .vfp file.)

(a) So do I only put the .dll file into the Avisynth plugins folder and (b) where do I put all other remaining files?

What about all other plugins (or a plugin pack) for Avisynth? As I mentioned initially, I recall having loads of files in the Avisynth plugins folder before, whereas now I have practically nothing?

[sum_guy]

get rid of this - k-lite codec pack

all you need is LAV Filters

[jagabo]

In the event of DEMPGDec though, there is no .avsi file? (There is only a .exe file, a .dll file, 4 x html's, 3 x txt files & a .vfp file.)

(a) So do I only put the .dll file into the Avisynth plugins folder and (b) where do I put all other remaining files?

Only the dll needs to be in the plugins folder. You need to use DgIndex.exe to build an index file -- put it anywhere that's convenient. The rest is documentation and can go anywhere.

What about all other plugins (or a plugin pack) for Avisynth? As I mentioned initially, I recall having loads of files in the Avisynth plugins folder before, whereas now I have practically nothing?

It's pretty much the same with all plugins. If you want them to automatically load put them in the plugins folder. If not, put them elsewhere and load them manually in your script. The benefit of putting them in the plugins folder is that they autoload. The down side is that they autoload -- taking more time to start AviSynth and increasing its memory footprint (loading plugins you may not be using).

There is one popular filter that is different, Yadif. It's a dll but it will not autoload and requires a special command to load, Load_Stdcall_plugin("c:\path to\Yadif.dll"). I have that line in an AVSI script in the plugins folder so it autoloads Yadif.

Another exception is fftw3.dll which is used by many plugins. That dll is a system plugin and goes in the C:\Windows\SysWOW64 folder on 64 bit Windows.

[poisondeathray]

Nope, using a 32-bit version of everything.

Just for clarity, my PC & OS are 64-bit, but EVERYTHING for the sake of converting/encoding etc. is entirely 32-bit. Everything.

The screenshot for MPCHC in post #76 says x64 version

[The.King]

The screenshot for MPCHC in post #76 says x64 version

So I posted the wrong photo. I tried it in 32-bit MPCHC, got the same result.

[jagabo]

Nope, using a 32-bit version of everything.

Just to be sure: after starting MPC check Task Manager's Process tab. 32 bit programs will have "*32" at the end of the name.

[The.King]

It's definitely 32-bit. Jeez, I just uploaded the wrong photo. Believe me, everything is 32-bit.

[poisondeathray]

Go back to version() in version.avs

Did you actually save it ? Close the version.avs file and re-open it in notepad

[The.King]

Eh?

(1) I have a new .avs file.
(2) Inside this .avs file is the line:
version()
(3) The file is saved.
(4) I then reopened the file to check it was as it should have been.
(5) When I open up the file with MPC-HC *32, I get the same message as per post #76?

(I fully, fully appreciate that I am a novice when it comes to encoding/converting and all things Avisynth, QTGMC, scripts & command lines etc.) but seriously folk, if we're going to assume that I'm one third of the Three Stooges when it comes to a simple file - what's the point? I've build my own PC from scratch, assembled all hardware components, re-imaged about a million PC's & laptops and built my own Smarthomes network using Control4. I've also used the likes of Staxrip/Hybrid for years now & read up on plenty of encoding settings over the years, so I know a few basic not just about the likes of "cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:-1:-1 / me=umh / subme=10 / psy=1 /" etc., but more importantly what they mean.

So without giving me an aneurysm with the technical & intricate details of the things I don't know, can we at least get past the point where we're continually questioning my ability to open a file, create a script, or whether I'm using 32-bit or 64-bit programmes?

Thanks.

[poisondeathray]

Avisynth isn't working for you. You need to get version() working, because it's the simplest script, relies on nothing (no plugins) except avisynth. That is the first step

I was asking about (4) because, I've done that many, many times, where I make a bunch of edits and forget to save it. Debugging starts with the simple, common things first. Common things are common, like human error - we all make those little simple mistakes. You made a simple mistake by posting the wrong image for example

Just to be sure, you should be running as administrator when you install avisynth.

[jagabo]

Look in C:\Windows\SysWow64. Do you see avisynth.dll there? Right click on it, select Properties, go to the Details tab. Does the information look right?