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  1. Hi everyone, i am thinking of creating a new Topic dedicated to Backing up and/or Archiving of your precious video files.

    By this i simply refer to the short term or long term storage of those files for as long as you think you need to keep them (on Optical Disc, Tape Drives, Portable HDD, Servers, Cloud Storage, USB Stick, SD Cards etc etc etc)

    Please note that i am not referring to which format you should convert them to simply because one will make that decision based entirely on their source file type, and on their own individual playback needs or requirements (ie: you are not going to convert a family DVD to 4k h264 are you ? or would you ?)

    I raise this topic because of a very recent Thread where a member asked "what is the best future proof format" and after a very short time, it appeared that some members of the forum ended up taking the Thread off topic with debates and arguments about what is the best way to store videos, and it just became a total joke in the end (as many topics do in this forum)

    So, i fully understand that every man and his dog will have their own preferences and thoughts about this backing up/archiving topic, and i also understand that there will be certain members who will not/cannot accept any other opinion other than their own, but i was thinking of creating a Backup/Archiving Thread myself so members can go there and debate this rather frustrating topic themselves, and not go into other peoples threads and de-rail Topics that have nothing to do with Backing up or Archiving of videos.

    Cheers
    Last edited by glenpinn; 23rd Aug 2015 at 19:54.
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  2. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    By this i simply refer to storage of those files, not which format you should convert them to.

    I raise this topic because of a very recent Thread where a member asked "what is the best future proof format" and after a very short time, the topic ended up on its head and members started debating (arguing) about which Backup medium was the best, and that was not what the Thread creator was asking.
    Because re-encoding them is a stupid idea.
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  3. OK, I'd like to rant about something, but I have no idea what the topic of this thread is .... It suppose to be Backup/Archiving Video Files but we should not discuss Backing up or Archiving videos. Am I lost in Australian English here?
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  4. Please Read this Article regarding Backup and Archiving

    http://searchdatabackup.techtarget.com/tip/Backup-vs-archive

    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    Because re-encoding them is a stupid idea.
    Here we go already, Read what i said above, i DO NOT want anyone making comments or posting stuff in this thread relating to Video Conversions, this is exactly how and why these threads end up in a shit fight, because members refuse to read the Thread topics properly, or take things out of context.

    I am simply raising the idea of creating a new Thread relating to digital video file storage, and asking where such a Thread should be placed in this Forum.

    Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    OK, I'd like to rant about something, but I have no idea what is the topic of this thread .... It suppose to be Backup/Archiving Video Files but we should not discuss Backing up or Archiving videos. Am I lost in Australian English here?
    LOL you clearly have no idea what Backing up or Archiving of Video files (or any other files for that matter) actually means.

    Basically what i am referring to here is how, or where you would store all of your digital files for short term or long term Storage and Archiving, it does not refer to what format you will convert them to.

    There is a huge difference between which Video Format you choose to convert your video files to, and how you actually store all of your Digital Media Files, and that is where you are getting confused.

    I have 300 DV-Avi video files taken from VHS and Mini DV Tapes, i also have those same DV-Avi files edited and converted to mpeg2 video files, i then have around 400 hundred 1080/50p MTS files as well, plus a bunch of Movies that i ripped to mpeg2 format several years ago.

    I am referring to what MEDIUM i will choose to store them on for short term/long term Storage or Archiving to keep them safe, but readily available should i ever need to access them again in the future (on Optical Disc, Tape Drives, Portable HDD, Servers, Cloud Storage, USB Stick, SD Cards etc etc etc)

    You should never rely on keeping just one single copy of any video file, be it on DVD, Bluray, Hard Drive, in the Clouds etc, you should have at least 2 copies of all your Digital files, and have each copy stored in a different location, or on separate devices, so if you lose one copy, you can restore that by accessing your other copy to restore it.
    Last edited by glenpinn; 23rd Aug 2015 at 01:56.
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  5. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    I store my video files on my server hard drives, backed up to Verbatim SL and DL Blu-ray media.
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  6. Originally Posted by redwudz View Post
    I store my video files on my server hard drives, backed up to Verbatim SL and DL Blu-ray media.
    Thanks a lot, we have someone who knows exactly what i am talking about

    Just curious, if you had a favorite DVD Movie that you treasure, would you rely entirely on that DVD disc as your only copy of that movie, or would you rip it to Digital format (mpeg2 or mp4 etc) and store a copy of that away along with your other video files as well.

    I understand that commercial DVD Movies on disc would traditionally last quite a long time, however scratches can be a right pain and cause the DVD to become un-playable.

    I know many used to make a backup copy of their DVD movies onto DVD disc, but i always felt that this is just asking for trouble, and that one should just rip the DVD and store it in digital format on their backup drives ready to burn to disc later if they had to.
    Last edited by glenpinn; 23rd Aug 2015 at 02:06.
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  7. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    after a very short time, the topic ended up on its head and members started debating (arguing) about which Backup medium was the best, and that was not what the Thread creator was asking.
    Your words....not mine.
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  8. Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    after a very short time, the topic ended up on its head and members started debating (arguing) about which Backup medium was the best, and that was not what the Thread creator was asking.
    Your words....not mine.
    I have no idea what you are referring to, the Thread that i was referring to in that Quote was de-railed totally by certain members who ended up discussing what the best form of Backup or storage was, and not the best Format to convert to for future proofing their videos.

    You then simply came into this thread and stated "Because re-encoding them is a stupid idea" which again, had absolutely nothing to do with the topic i am discussing in this forum.

    I just dont get why you people feel the need to NOT read posts PROPERLY and then end up De-Railing threads like that, it just defies logic, at least redwudz managed to respond with exactly what i was asking

    If you still don't get it, go have a read of this link, which you very clearly never looked at before, and please refrain from posting anything if you cannot contribute to the actual Topic at hand, this is NOT about Video Conversions or Video Formats ok ?

    http://searchdatabackup.techtarget.com/tip/Backup-vs-archive
    Last edited by glenpinn; 23rd Aug 2015 at 02:17.
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  9. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    after a very short time, the topic ended up on its head and members started debating (arguing) about which Backup medium was the best, and that was not what the Thread creator was asking.
    Your words....not mine.
    I have no idea what you are referring to
    Editing out your text (Last edited by glenpinn; 23rd Aug 2015 at 05:04. ) does not effect what others(like me) have QUOTED.
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  10. Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    Editing out your text (Last edited by glenpinn; 23rd Aug 2015 at 05:04. ) does not effect what others(like me) have QUOTED.
    What the **** is it that you don't understand ????

    You started this crap by not reading, or understanding my first post properly, you just came into this thread and mention some ******* video conversion bullshit, and i specifically stated in my opening post that this is not about Video Conversion, what is it that you simply do not understand.

    Stay out of this thread if you have nothing to say about the actual topic, its that simple
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  11. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    Editing out your text (Last edited by glenpinn; 23rd Aug 2015 at 05:04. ) does not effect what others(like me) have QUOTED.
    What the **** is it that you don't understand ????
    I'm not alone.
    Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    OK, I'd like to rant about something, but I have no idea what the topic of this thread is .... It suppose to be Backup/Archiving Video Files but we should not discuss Backing up or Archiving videos. Am I lost in Australian English here?
    Your original, unedited post was confusing and contradicted itself.
    If you are indeed starting yet another "best storage" discussion, go back the past 10-15 years and you will get the same exact answers....Verbatim/Taiyo Yuden DVD blanks or an extra external hard drive.
    Done.
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  12. Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    I'm not alone.
    Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    OK, I'd like to rant about something, but I have no idea what the topic of this thread is .... It suppose to be Backup/Archiving Video Files but we should not discuss Backing up or Archiving videos. Am I lost in Australian English here?
    LOL thats because he, just like you, did not read my first post properly, and/or you both did not seem to understand the difference between Backing up/Storing or Archiving digital media as opposed to Converting them for playback, and at no point in my opening post did i alter any reference to what i intended this thread to be all about.

    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    Your original, unedited post was confusing and contradicted itself.
    Rubbish, there was no contradiction, i made it very clear that i was referring to the Backing up and storage, or archiving of digital media files (read the thread title if you don't understand) and i made it very very clear that it was not about video conversion, you are the one who jumped right in with your comment about video conversion in your first post, so go figure that one out.

    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    If you are indeed starting yet another "best storage" discussion, go back the past 10-15 years and you will get the same exact answers....Verbatim/Taiyo Yuden DVD blanks or an extra external hard drive.Done.
    Yep, now how difficult was that to come up with, see you finally got the message as to exactly what i was referring to, just as redwudz did and i didn't see him making any fuss about all this like you are.

    If Blank DVD disks or external Hdd are your preferred option, then that is great, you have now responded with exactly what i was asking for in my opening post, and you could have easily left out all this other off topic stuff that you started posting earlier (see your first post, that was way off topic for starters, simply because you never read my opening post properly, and there was no confusion about what i originally wrote.)

    Aside from DVD optical media and external HDD, there are several other Mediums that people can use, and this is what this thread is all about, i just want to know what Medium you prefer to use.

    As i stated earlier, you should never ever rely on one single type of Medium to store your files on, nor should you only keep one copy of all your files, you should be keeping at least 2 copies of each file, and have each copy stored on different Mediums (say one on a portable Hdd, the other on optical media or a tape drive, or maybe in the Cloud) so if you lose a copy from one Medium, you can go back to the other Medium to restore from.

    DVD disks fail just like every other Medium can.
    Last edited by glenpinn; 23rd Aug 2015 at 04:02.
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    Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    Originally Posted by redwudz View Post
    I store my video files on my server hard drives, backed up to Verbatim SL and DL Blu-ray media.
    Thanks a lot, we have someone who knows exactly what i am talking about

    Just curious, if you had a favorite DVD Movie that you treasure, would you rely entirely on that DVD disc as your only copy of that movie, or would you rip it to Digital format (mpeg2 or mp4 etc) and store a copy of that away along with your other video files as well.

    I understand that commercial DVD Movies on disc would traditionally last quite a long time, however scratches can be a right pain and cause the DVD to become un-playable.

    I know many used to make a backup copy of their DVD movies onto DVD disc, but i always felt that this is just asking for trouble, and that one should just rip the DVD and store it in digital format on their backup drives ready to burn to disc later if they had to.
    Video DVDs are MPEG2 in a Transport Stream (.ts) and ARE digital. Ripping a DVD or Blu-Ray removes the copy protection (if there is any) and less that protection is an EXACT DIGITAL COPY of the original disc. Any conversion of format is done purely in the digital realm.

    IMHO, the best way to archive a Video DVD is as an .iso rip maintaining the structure of the original and keeping multiple copies on various media; hard drives (ideally SSD) and optical media.

    BTW, commercial DVDs and Blu-Rays are far from perfect sources for archiving. As pointed out in a recent interview with a video compressionist on AVSForum, the typical digital source for movies is ~2TB, meaning a Blu-Ray retains ~2% of the original data and a DVD is ~.02%. In addition, there is the reduction in color bit rate from 10-12bit color reduced to 8bit for current DVDs and Blu-Rays.

    Hopefully, the movie studios have learned their lesson and will make a greater effort to maintain their library and we'll continue to see new and improved releases of even the most obscure releases.
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    Perhaps the best method of ensuring the longevity of any file is sharing with others (within the realms of copyright legality of course).

    My mother recently received a copy of a photo of her parents that I never realized existed. Now, even if the original is lost, we have a copy that we can further reproduce for later generations to enjoy.

    For me, the greatest wonder of the Internet is that videos that were supposedly were lost forever or reportedly never existed are becoming available through the worldwide community. Search, ask and be patient and almost any commercially produced video will appear somewhere, sometime.

    Edit: If it's a personal video that only you possess, assuming it's not extremely personal, share it with others via any physical media you chose or post it somewhere on the internet. As is constantly warned, once ANYTHING is posted on the Internet, it's there forever, somewhere!
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  15. Time for me to mention my own Backup/Storage and Archiving solution, however because i never trust any Medium completely, i use a variety of methods as follows.

    For my old VHS and Mini DV Tape videos (300 files now exist) these were all transferred in DV-Avi format for editing, then a copy re-converted to DVD Compliant mpeg2 for Authoring to DVD if anyone wanted them.

    I would then retain the Mini DV Tapes for Archiving, as these were massively huge files (13gb per 1 hour) and back in those days, Hard drives were very expensive, and it was impossible to store many of my DV-Avi files on DVD Disks because the files were often too big, and i never fully trusted DVD optical disks anyway.

    The mpeg2 files were stored on my local Hard Drive in my computer, with another copy stored on an external Hard drive, and as someone wanted a copy of a video, i simply authored and burnt a copy for them from the mpeg2 file.

    A few years ago i decided to transfer around 50 of my most valuable DV-Avi videos from the DV Tapes back onto a storage drive in my editing pc, and from those, i re-converted a copy in MP4 (h264) as well as retain the mpeg2 version as well.

    For the past 7 years i have been shooting 1080/50p AVCHD video using a variety of Panasonic Cams, shooting for clients as well as for my own family and friends, so i have now got a collection of around 400x edited 1080/50p MTS family videos of various durations, ranging from 10 minutes up to around 1 hour (average is 15 minutes each) which now takes up a total of around 1.1tb in storage space, so a copy of all 400 of these videos are stored on 2x 2tb portable Hard Drives (usb3) along with a copy of all my other mpeg2 and mp4 family videos from those DV Tapes, and i then have a copy of all those files stored on a 3tb Hard Drive in my off line File Server as well.

    The edited 1080/50p MTS files are also Smart Rendered to 1080/50p MP4 for playback support on most devices (not all devices support MTS files) and it is those files that i give to other people on a usb drive to plug into their HD TV or external media players to watch on TV.

    For clients Videos, they get a copy of all their files stored on a 500gb portable usb3 Hdd at their cost ($60) or they can provide their own portable drive.

    They get a folder on that Drive containing the the original MTS files straight from my camera sdxc card, plus they get their completed Video, or Videos in 1080/50p mp4, a copy re-converted to 720/50p mp4, and if they happen to want a copy for Bluray, i would also do the Bluray conversion and give them the Bluray folder on that drive so they can burn a copy whenever they like.

    Clients are told to store their files away safely, because the only copy that i retain for 1 year is the completed 1080/50p MTS file, after that it gets deleted from my 3 Backup storage systems.

    Finally, i currently have a 1tb Dropbox Pro Online storage Account which i use primarily for storing and sharing my own Family related Videos and Photos, which all my own family members can access (upload or download from) using a shared unique family user name and password.

    I also have another Pro Account for my own personal family files as well as for storing some of my important clients Videos and photos on as well.

    Late Edit: What about Storage of 4k video @ 100 to 150Mbps now that is something else, and something i myself will have to deal with once i get my new 4k Video Cam.

    For me, DVD or Bluray optical media for storage has never been an option, i never trusted it at all for long term Storage, but with the 1080/50p videos, and 4k video into the future, it will certainly never be an option, even if it was proven to be reliable.
    Last edited by glenpinn; 23rd Aug 2015 at 06:32.
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  16. Not sure why are you irritated that someone did not understand the topic, you could say: What the proper medium is to store our videos onto for archiving" ,you were not clear enough before you edited your post.
    I put it all into HDD's , neatly sorted out, chronologically with unique names
    ---HDD's with DV avi originals and project files (premiere, vegas), pictures, no background music - would not be needed again
    ---HDD's with HD video originals, pictures and project files(vegas) as well, no music
    ---(networked ready but today they all are) HDD's or NAS's with edited and compressed files or VIDEO_TS directories as well
    ---optical disc copies I do not think of as a back-up, it is simply a delivery thing

    those HDD's or NAS units must be backed up three times and and they should not be in the same place, cannot be plugged all at the same time etc.
    Adding to those is not a problem because usually I have to migrate from 1t to 2T , then 4T etc. anyway. Having optical discs I have no idea how would I practice migration en masse periodically, I simply do not believe optical disc longevity, for me this fragmented storing is weird, not practical, that's all. I can imagine a person doing it, not trusting HDD on the other side, but multiple back ups and migration after some time eliminates that fear.
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  17. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    Just curious, if you had a favorite DVD Movie that you treasure, would you rely entirely on that DVD disc as your only copy of that movie, or would you rip it to Digital format (mpeg2 or mp4 etc) and store a copy of that away along with your other video files as well.

    I understand that commercial DVD Movies on disc would traditionally last quite a long time, however scratches can be a right pain and cause the DVD to become un-playable.

    I know many used to make a backup copy of their DVD movies onto DVD disc, but i always felt that this is just asking for trouble, and that one should just rip the DVD and store it in digital format on their backup drives ready to burn to disc later if they had to.
    I convert my BD/DVDs to MKVs for ease of playback and keep them on my servers and keep a copy of the MKV on BD for archiving. The original DVD/BDs are also stored.
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  18. Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    Not sure why are you irritated that someone did not understand the topic, you could say: What the proper medium is to store our videos onto for archiving" ,you were not clear enough before you edited your post
    Regarding the bit in my quote where you said that i could have said "What the proper medium is to store our videos onto for archiving" well that is not what i intended this topic to be about either, because i am not interested in what people think is the "Proper" Medium to Store or Archive their media files on, because there is no such thing as "proper" because everyone will do it in different ways, be it good or bad, that is not the point.

    All i want is for members to tell us their own Backup/Storage/Archiving methods for all their digital media, and that's it, and now it appears that you have now given us your methods as well, so thank you.

    Cheers

    Originally Posted by redwudz View Post
    I convert my BD/DVDs to MKVs for ease of playback and keep them on my servers and keep a copy of the MKV on BD for archiving. The original DVD/BDs are also stored.
    Thanks for the info, much appreciated.
    Last edited by glenpinn; 23rd Aug 2015 at 12:15. Reason: Added new Quote and reply
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  19. Hard drives and Blu Rays for the time being (-- even though this is specifically what you asked us NOT to discuss in your original post.)

    Camera originals are maintained as clones of the original media in its original file structure. Proxy media mostly gets tossed. High quality graphic renders are stored in their own folder as are audio mixes. These days I rarely backup the final high resolution output as it can be reconstituted from the camera originals in short order. Almost all my finished work is posted to my Vimeo account or my clients' online account so there is a decent quality version available for viewing anytime.
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  20. How is the redwuz response different than mine, I'd like to know. This is most intriguing for me what you actually want to hear. In my answer there is everything you want to here, is it not? What else do you need to know?
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  21. The following 3 groups of text have been removed from the opening post as i now see why some of you got confused.

    So i ask, which forum sub-section would i create such a thread in ?

    And please, lets keep This Thread free from starting any debates or arguments about Backing up or Archiving videos, lets leave that for such a thread if/when it is created.


    EDIT: If one of the Moderators would like to move this Thread to the appropriate Sub-Forum for discussion, then this will become the official Thread dealing with this particular Topic, and i will amend this Post accordingly so the discussion or debate can begin

    Just to clarify, if you read the very first line in my first post, it clearly states that i was intending to open a new thread about Backing up/Archiving, and followed that by explaining what such a new thread would be all about.

    It was not my intention for this thread here to be the actual thread that would be open for discussion about Backup/Archiving, all i was trying to do was to let people know that i wanted to create a new thread about this topic, and i was simply asking moderators which section of the forum such a new thread can be placed, i even ask where to put the new thread,

    That is why i stated in one of my comments to please not start any debates about this topic yet in this thread, as it was meant to be for enquiry only, but i can see now why some of you may have got confused, so i apologize for any confusion.

    Anyway, now that everyone has started commenting, i figure we just continue the discussion here.

    Originally Posted by smrpix View Post
    Hard drives and Blu Rays for the time being (-- even though this is specifically what you asked us NOT to discuss in your original post.)
    No, you are spot on, i just originally never wanted members to start posting their replies yet in this thread until i created the proper discussion thread in the proper section of the forum.

    Cheers
    Last edited by glenpinn; 23rd Aug 2015 at 20:10.
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