Loseless Video Capture from Virgin Media V+ HD box

[ezcapper]

If interlaced output is an absolute requirement and you need a standalone box, it might be worth it to invest in the Gozens HDTV Recorder:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271434863079?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I read through the information in your link. That box requires Fat32 formatting on connected drives, which means a 4GB limit on recordings. The link says it accepts input up to 1080i but I found nothing about the resolutions used for recording. In other words, this is yet another device sold direct from China with a lot of unknowns and little in the way of support from the manufacturer. ...and the boxes from AVerMedia (which have good specs available and decent manufacturer support) even cost less!

It does require FAT32 formatting. You can reformat the drive to by right clicking on it in windows. The maximum recording time you can set it to is 14,400 minutes. It records in all standard broadcast resolutions, with interlaced output when there is interlaced input. It is more expensive than the avermedia box because it is better for the purpose of using as a dvr.

Recording in FAT32 with splitting of files makes them much easier to transfer and edit
from their faq:
Q12. If recording long hours will it make 1 file or multiple files that I need to join?
A. multiple files. recorder will join them back with seamless playing back if you want to join them together you can use smartcutter like software to edit the recordings.

[jagabo]

The enclosure usually_quiet posted comes with a power adapter plug, would that be enough to power the 3.5" drive?

Yes. If it comes with its own power supply that supply should be sufficient power the drive you put in it. The power supply is rated at 24 watts (12 volts * 2 amps). The most power hungry drives these days need about 15 watts.

[usually_quiet]

If interlaced output is an absolute requirement and you need a standalone box, it might be worth it to invest in the Gozens HDTV Recorder:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271434863079?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I read through the information in your link. That box requires Fat32 formatting on connected drives, which means a 4GB limit on recordings. The link says it accepts input up to 1080i but I found nothing about the resolutions used for recording. In other words, this is yet another device sold direct from China with a lot of unknowns and little in the way of support from the manufacturer. ...and the boxes from AVerMedia (which have good specs available and decent manufacturer support) even cost less!

It does require FAT32 formatting. You can reformat the drive to by right clicking on it in windows. The maximum recording time you can set it to is 14,400 minutes. It records in all standard broadcast resolutions, with interlaced output when there is interlaced input. It is more expensive than the avermedia box because it is better for the purpose of using as a dvr.

Recording in FAT32 with splitting of files makes them much easier to transfer and edit
from their faq:
Q12. If recording long hours will it make 1 file or multiple files that I need to join?
A. multiple files. recorder will join them back with seamless playing back if you want to join them together you can use smartcutter like software to edit the recordings.

I'm not sure why you think having several segments to re-join makes for easier edits. I've always found it to be a pain in the butt with VideoReDo and other basic editors.

The OP in this thread has a cable DVR and is planning to get a Freeview DVR after his cable contract expires. He doesn't need a capture device with several event timers like a VCR. A basic capture device should be just fine, The two AVerMedia devices I suggested have a duration timer, should he wish to use one.

[ezcapper]

I still think it's a mistake to get the avermedia over the gozen. You said you do not recommend the avermedia device for television. The gozen was designed for television. You plug a decent 16 or 32 gb usb stick in and record. The files are very easy to join using avidemux. You just drag and drop one after the other. Especially with computers that are not very powerful, smaller individual files are easier to deal with.

[usually_quiet]

I still think it's a mistake to get the avermedia over the gozen. You said you do not recommend the avermedia device for television. The gozen was designed for television. You plug a decent 16 or 32 gb usb stick in and record. The files are very easy to join using avidemux. You just drag and drop one after the other. Especially with computers that are not very powerful, smaller individual files are easier to deal with.

I don't and won't use AVIDemux. I did try AVIDemux at one time for editing my TV recordings. Compared to VideoReDo, AVIDemux is rubbish for editing TV recordings. Like many others, I prefer NTFS and working with unified recordings, but if you prefer using an outdated file system and joining multiple files together to have a complete recording, you are allowed to feel that way.

Maybe you should read the thread again and refresh your memory. I said I didn't recommend the Avermedia Live Gamer Portable, and just to be clear, I don't think the LGP Lite version is any better for recording TV than the original. I specifically recommended the AVerMedia EZRecorder 130 and the Game Capture HD II.

How are the AVerMedia EZRecorder 130 and the Game Capture HD II a mistake for copying stored recordings from a DVR? Their manuals have charts indicating they record all normal broadcast resolutions (up to and including 1080i) as is. Both have a duration timer, so someone can walk away once the recording process is initiated. Since the recording process must be started manually, there is no reason to pay extra for multiple VCR-like timers. The AVerMedia EZRecorder 130 and the Game Capture HD II do work best with a hard drive, and by happy coincidence that is what the OP apparently wants to use. He hasn't asked about USB sticks.

Then there are customer support, returns, and RMAs to consider. I have dealt with AVerMedia customer service for a device that failed under warranty. I had no problems with them and sending my device to a US address for replacement wasn't terribly expensive ($9). Returning it to the U.S. based seller if there had been a problem with my order would not have been expensive either. AVerMedia has a business presence in the EU.

Sending an item back to China if there is a problem with the order or the item fails under warranty is considerably more expensive than returning it to a location that is in one's own country.

[ezcapper]

ok you win man, I must have misread your posts. For me, with the aver devices I have slight color issues and I would rather not use a device that does not natively support decoding the hdcp. There is a sign on the ezrecorder that splitter use to bypass hdcp is illegal by law. Also the one file would be a major drawback. But I am sure you can negate those issues, feel free. But I won't waste yours and the OP's time replying to this thread, just threw out a suggestion and what I felt was the best solution. Actually, if it was me, I wouldn't worry about the deinterlacing and get the project done for $75 with a cheap chinese hdmi box.

[usually_quiet]

ok you win man, I must have misread your posts. For me, with the aver devices I have slight color issues and I would rather not use a device that does not natively support decoding the hdcp. There is a sign on the ezrecorder that splitter use to bypass hdcp is illegal by law. Also the one file would be a major drawback. But I am sure you can negate those issues, feel free. But I won't waste yours and the OP's time replying to this thread, just threw out a suggestion and what I felt was the best solution. Actually, if it was me, I wouldn't worry about the deinterlacing and get the project done for $75 with a cheap chinese hdmi box.

Strange that you would recommend the AVerMedia LGP Lite and now claim AVerMedia products are not a good choice because their products have color issues for you.

Funny thing is that cracking the firmware so a device bypasses HDCP because the unaltered firmware won't allow recording HDCP protected content, is also illegal, and yet you don't have a problem with it.

[Master Tape]

Interesting about the colour issues, but if they're only slight then the Aver will still be fine. I would prefer to use a hard drive as the USB stick doesn't have as high a capacity, only up to 128GB, so i'd need several to archive all that's on my V+ box and that would soon become costly.

Also after seeing a recommendation on the HDCP strippers thread, i messaged the buyer of the HDMI splitter on ebay to ask just incase, and she replied 'This item is fully HDCP protocol compliant'.. So now i have to find one that does the job, unfortunately the thread has now been closed.

[jagabo]

Color problems are probably a rec.601 vs. rec.709 playback issue.

[usually_quiet]

Also after seeing a recommendation on the HDCP strippers thread, i messaged the buyer of the HDMI splitter on ebay to ask just incase, and she replied 'This item is fully HDCP protocol compliant'.. So now i have to find one that does the job, unfortunately the thread has now been closed.

I bought this from Amazon in the US when I needed a splitter to use with a Hauppauge Colossus PCI-e capture device: http://www.amazon.co.uk/ViewHD-Powered-Splitter-Supports-VHD-1X2MN3D/dp/B004F9LVXC/

[Master Tape]

I bought this from Amazon in the US when I needed a splitter to use with a Hauppauge Colossus PCI-e capture device: http://www.amazon.co.uk/ViewHD-Powered-Splitter-Supports-VHD-1X2MN3D/dp/B004F9LVXC/

Thanks, ordered.

Just read a review on Amazon about the AverMedia EzRecorder 130 box, that it will have an AverMedia watermark in the top left hand corner after being recorded to the hard drive?! This is something i'd expect from a free trial. Is there a way to get rid of it?

[usually_quiet]

I bought this from Amazon in the US when I needed a splitter to use with a Hauppauge Colossus PCI-e capture device: http://www.amazon.co.uk/ViewHD-Powered-Splitter-Supports-VHD-1X2MN3D/dp/B004F9LVXC/

Thanks, ordered.

Just read a review on Amazon about the AverMedia EzRecorder 130 box, that it will have an AverMedia watermark in the top left hand corner after being recorded to the hard drive?! This is something i'd expect from a free trial. Is there a way to get rid of it?

The watermark feature can be turned on or off with a menu setting in the EzRecorder 130's firmware. Some people like to add a watermark to videos they post to their website or to their contributions to video hosting sites like YouTube.

Maybe it is time you downloaded the manual and read over it. http://avertv.avermedia.com/product/ProductDetail.aspx?Id=593&tab=UserManual. Note that there is link to an Open Source Code Notice on that page which is listed first. The link for the manual is further down the page.

[Master Tape]

The watermark feature can be turned on or off with a menu setting in the EzRecorder 130's firmware. Some people like to add a watermark to videos they post to their website or to their contributions to video hosting sites like YouTube.

Maybe it is time you downloaded the manual and read over it. http://avertv.avermedia.com/product/ProductDetail.aspx?Id=593&tab=UserManual. Note that there is link to an Open Source Code Notice on that page which is listed first. The link for the manual is further down the page.

Excellent, love that it comes with it's own editing suite built in. Looks like a great piece of kit, will now order. Many thanks for the manual.

[Master Tape]

Was about to order the hard drive enclosure you recommended, but when i got out to checkout the shipping was over £20 (a bit more than the item itself!)

Having a look round i found this. Will it be upto the job?

http://www.cclonline.com/product/76328/DB35S/External-HDD-Enclosure/CiT-3-5-USB-2-0-Du...osure/HDD3442/

[usually_quiet]

Was about to order the hard drive enclosure you recommended, but when i got out to checkout the shipping was over £20 (a bit more than the item itself!)

Having a look round i found this. Will it be upto the job?

http://www.cclonline.com/product/76328/DB35S/External-HDD-Enclosure/CiT-3-5-USB-2-0-Du...osure/HDD3442/

Wow. I didn't think to check the shipping price since the the website was supposed to be for Newegg in the UK. I guess it ships from one of their other locations, like the USA or China.

Based on reviews for the CiT enclosure at http://www.amazon.co.uk/CiT-inch-Dual-SATA-Enclosure/dp/B00647ARJ2 I am a little leery of it.

Maybe your original choice with no fan will be OK. Laptop drives run cooler, and if it has a few minutes of inactivity between recording sessions that could be enough.

The watermark feature can be turned on or off with a menu setting in the EzRecorder 130's firmware. Some people like to add a watermark to videos they post to their website or to their contributions to video hosting sites like YouTube.

Maybe it is time you downloaded the manual and read over it. http://avertv.avermedia.com/product/ProductDetail.aspx?Id=593&tab=UserManual. Note that there is link to an Open Source Code Notice on that page which is listed first. The link for the manual is further down the page.

Excellent, love that it comes with it's own editing suite built in. Looks like a great piece of kit, will now order. Many thanks for the manual.

I think editing on a PC will work better, but you might as well try both.

[Master Tape]

Ah.. i've already ordered a 2TB HDD. I'll just get this http://www.amazon.co.uk/USB3-0-Enclosure-Caddy-WINDOWS-VISTA/dp/B0042JOQZK Seems decent enough and will do the job of keeping the single hard drive cool. It would work out as the same price if i bought a 2TB Transcend model anyway, only with the addition of a cooling fan

[LMotlow]

Ah.. i've already ordered a 2TB HDD. I'll just get this http://www.amazon.co.uk/USB3-0-Enclosure-Caddy-WINDOWS-VISTA/dp/B0042JOQZK Seems decent enough and will do the job of keeping the single hard drive cool. It would work out as the same price if i bought a 2TB Transcend model anyway, only with the addition of a cooling fan

Hmm. Used. Amazon UK also sells brand new fan-cooled enclosures, but I just looked at the UK prices. The similar and very popular Rosewill fan-cooled USB 3.0 and USB 2.0 models sell new over there for 5 to 6 times the U.S.A. price in dollars. The USA price in terms of UK currency would be about 18 to 20 pounds. But I saw the same Rosewill unit selling at Amazon UK for about 118 pounds. Yikes, that would be $185 USD instead of the average $25 to $30 seen over here.

[usually_quiet]

This is the next best enclosure I could find at a reasonable price: http://www.amazon.co.uk/computers/dp/B003F5NS9W/

[Master Tape]

Having a problem with the Avermedia EzRecorder 130 box. I captured some footage yesterday and deleted it from the V+ box soon after, but thought it looked a bit smooth and soon realised it had been captured as 50 fps. No idea why or how it's doing this, but the footage should be 25 fps. Is there a way to set it to the correct amount on frames on the box, and with the already captured footage, can the number of frames be corrected in a video editing program, by changing it from 50 frames to 25?

[usually_quiet]

Having a problem with the Avermedia EzRecorder 130 box. I captured some footage yesterday and deleted it from the V+ box soon after, but thought it looked a bit smooth and soon realised it had been captured as 50 fps. No idea why or how it's doing this, but the footage should be 25 fps. Is there a way to set it to the correct amount on frames on the box, and with the already captured footage, can the number of frames be corrected in a video editing program, by changing it from 50 frames to 25?

Some programs (VLC is one) erroneously report twice the actual number of frames per second for interlaced video. Also, sometimes the notation 1080i50 is used, which counts the number of fields per second. There are two fields per frame, so the frames per second works out to 25.

Download the zip file containing latest MediaInfo portable from the direct link on MediaInfo's page in VideoHelp's tools section. Note that if you use the installer version from the author's website instead, you must be careful to avoid installing adware and toolbars too.

Post the MediaInfo report for this capture, which will provide more accurate information. Open the file with MediaInfo. Select View->Text. Cut and paste from the resulting report.

[Master Tape]

Thanks. Here is a screenshot of the report.

[jagabo]

Some programs/devices are starting to flag interlaced mp4 files with the field rate, not the frame rate. But if you examine the timestamps of the frames you'll find that the true frame rate is half the number MediaInfo reports. You can use ffprobe (comes with ffmpeg) to display frame properties:

"C:\Program Files\ffmpeg\bin\ffprobe.exe" -threads %NUMBER_OF_PROCESSORS%*1.5  -v quiet -pretty -print_format json -show_entries "frame=coded_picture_number,pkt_pts_time,width,height" -select_streams v:0 %1 > %1.json

Here's what ffprobe shows for a similar MP4 file from a Sanyo HD1000GX camcorder:

{
    "frames": [
        {
            "pkt_pts_time": "0:00:00.000000",
            "width": 1920,
            "height": 1080,
            "coded_picture_number": 0
        },
        {
            "pkt_pts_time": "0:00:00.033367",
            "width": 1920,
            "height": 1080,
            "coded_picture_number": 1
        },
        {
            "pkt_pts_time": "0:00:00.066733",
            "width": 1920,
            "height": 1080,
            "coded_picture_number": 2
        },
...
        {
            "pkt_pts_time": "0:00:01.001000",
            "width": 1920,
            "height": 1080,
            "coded_picture_number": 30
        },
...
        {
            "pkt_pts_time": "0:00:37.437400",
            "width": 1920,
            "height": 1080,
            "coded_picture_number": 1122
        }

Note that the timestamps increase at 33.367 ms per frame. One second is reached at frame 30. The entire 37.44 second video has 1122 frames. Ie, the video is 29.97 fps. MediaInfo shows this file as 59.94 fps interlaced.

[usually_quiet]

Thanks for the explanation jagabo. I have never encountered this situation before.

To actually capture 50 interlaced frames per second from a 1080i 25 fps source, the AVerMedia EzRecorder 130 would have to duplicate each interlaced frame, which would serve no purpose.

[jagabo]

A lot of players will attempt to play the video at 50 fps, displaying each frame twice. When bob deinterlacing they will output 100 fields per second. But since interlaced frames were duplicated before bobbing you get very fast back-and-forth motion. Ie, instead of fields being played back in order, 1, 2, 3, 4... at 50 fields per second you get 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 3, 4... at 100 fields per second. That's fast enough that it just looks blurry and flickery. And most players can't bob to 100 fps (or 120 fps for NTSC) so you get jerky playback as frames are skipped in an attempt to keep the running time.

This confusion comes about because marketing people renamed 25i to 50i (and 30i to 60i) just because it sounds better. Then, probably because users started complaining that their "50i" camcorder produced files that MediaInfo (and other programs) reported as 25i, they started marking the actual video files 50i.

[usually_quiet]

I'm probably the only member here who never uses MP4. LOL Do you know of a way to correct the flag to show 25 frames per second? This question may come up again. In fact it has already come up here.

[Master Tape]

Thanks for the info, so despite what codec information from several sources state, it's always been in it's original 25fps. So am i alright to continue capturing from my V+ box? I would assume i can deinterlace then encode at 1080p/25fps for Youtube videos, and leave the interlaced footage as is, for future viewing on my tv.

[usually_quiet]

Thanks for the info, so despite what codec information from several sources state, it's always been in it's original 25fps. So am i alright to continue capturing from my V+ box? I would assume i can deinterlace then encode at 1080p/25fps for Youtube videos, and leave the interlaced footage as is, for future viewing on my tv.

You don't have much of a choice at this late date but to go ahead and capture with the device you already have. I'm hoping jagabo might come back with a way to correctly flag your captured video as 25 frames per second to ensure it will be processed correctly.

The question is can your preferred video players and encoding software handle your captures when they are flagged with the wrong frame rate? Based on what jagabo wrote, it is possible some players and encoding software might be confused by video that is flagged as 50 frames per second even though it is really 25 frames per second. Assuming your encoder can handle your captures, YouTube allows uploading 1080p50 now, if you would like to re-encode your video that way.

[jagabo]

When using such a source in AviSynth I override the frame rate with

ffVideoSource("filename.mp4", fpsnum=25000, fpsden=1000)  # or 30000, 1001 for NTSC

You may also have to specify AssumeTFF() or AssumeBFF().

I've used My MP4Box GUI to demux the audio and video streams, then remux them with the frame rate set to 29.97 fps. That works for most players. Some may still get the field order backwards. I haven't found an mp4 header editor that lets you change the flagged frame rate.

[usually_quiet]

Just to avoid any possibility of confusion, in Master Tape's case he would set the frame rate to 25 fps when remultiplexing with my MP4Box GUI.

[Master Tape]

Was working fine before, but i now keep getting this error.