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  1. Member
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    I don't use Win10, but I've found a few links that may be useful:
    The very fact that plenty of Win10 anti spy software is already available speaks of itself. And I'm aware that Firefox (and not only) also talks to their servers however it looks like this time MS went the extra mile with Win10. On top of that now they are trying to push telemetry updates on Win 7 and 8 users as well.
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  2. Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
    I don't use Win10, but I've found a few links that may be useful:
    The very fact that plenty of Win10 anti spy software is already available speaks of itself. And I'm aware that Firefox (and not only) also talks to their servers however it looks like this time MS went the extra mile with Win10. On top of that now they are trying to push telemetry updates on Win 7 and 8 users as well.
    Yes, they've gone 'a bit' too far and they are going even further. As you said: 'On top of that now they are trying to push telemetry updates on Win 7 and 8 users as well'. What I can do on my Win7: turn off WU - a bit drastic, delay WU for a few days and check online info about all new updates what can take quite some time, and apply from time to time scripts from the second link ( https://github.com/WindowsLies/BlockWindows ) hoping the author will keep them up-to-date.
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  3. Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
    The very fact that plenty of Win10 anti spy software is already available speaks of itself. And I'm aware that Firefox (and not only) also talks to their servers however it looks like this time MS went the extra mile with Win10. On top of that now they are trying to push telemetry updates on Win 7 and 8 users as well.
    Who cares Gregg, maybe you and a few other tech savvy people, but like i said before, if you don't want it, don't install it, simple, but there are many who will, and the shelves in all our stores now stock laptops and computers with Windows 10 already, and i can assure you right now that most people who walk into a store to buy a new pc would never know about all this stuff, and none of them care either, and thats why microsoft (and other companies) are doing what they do, because they can, and they know that most people couldn't care less.

    It really gets annoying when i go into forums and a small group of posters keep ranting on about this stuff over and over again.
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    What I can do on my Win7: turn off WU...
    My WU are turned off by default since day one. I do updates only manually and only if necessary. All those scary warnings about keeping your Win constantly updated or about expiring support are exaggerated to say the least. I still have one Pentium 4 desktop running XP SP3 and it still works perfectly if it wasn't for Firefox which now consumes incredible amounts of RAM and CPU but all other software I'm running on that one still works perfectly. So the choice to update or not depends on what you're using your PC for.

    ...and i can assure you right now that most people who walk into a store to buy a new pc would never know about all this stuff, and none of them care either...
    You're perfectly right and the majority even if they know would say "I'm not doing anything wrong so let them spy me" which I don't want to comment.
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    Any help with removing shortcut arrows on Win 10. I have followed the instructions through the regedit and tried directly with blank.ico (dl) and I have done this many times with different ending string value "-,0, 5, 50..etc) regardless of the string every time I reboot the arrow is gone but I have a blank black/white boxes there instead. It is also making my pc unstable, windows are not loading as quick. Granted I added some custom icons, but the ones that came with the programs have the box too. Any suggestions. I am deleting the key for now, and just be a tad annoyed with the arrows.
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    Originally Posted by mlmiller707 View Post
    Any help with removing shortcut arrows on Win 10. I have followed the instructions through the regedit and tried directly with blank.ico (dl) and I have done this many times with different ending string value "-,0, 5, 50..etc) regardless of the string every time I reboot the arrow is gone but I have a blank black/white boxes there instead. It is also making my pc unstable, windows are not loading as quick. Granted I added some custom icons, but the ones that came with the programs have the box too. Any suggestions. I am deleting the key for now, and just be a tad annoyed with the arrows.
    In regedit, go to HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\lnkfile. In the right column, change lsShortcut to XlsShortcut.
    If anyone cares, works well.
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    Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    It really gets annoying when i go into forums and a small group of posters keep ranting on about this stuff over and over again.
    What's annoying to me is how many people are willing to just accept MS' garbage with regards to the spying, I mean "telemetry". MS clearly knows what they are doing is BS because it allows it's enterprise customers to turn off the telemetry, i.e. if you're using Win 7/8/8.1/10 Enterprise you're allowed to turn off all that crap but all other Windows editions do not allow for that.

    And make no mistake, it's not only MS I have a problem with, Apple with OSX Yosemite and Ubuntu Linux (up until the newest versions) were alos on the list of Oses I would never use.
    Paranoia- self destroyia- you are getting spied on whether you like it or not, no matter what you edit, no matter what mechanism you are on, get over it, our gov. protects our own, GOOD! Evil exiats everywhere.
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    Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    Originally Posted by mlmiller707 View Post
    Paranoia- self destroyia- you are getting spied on whether you like it or not, no matter what you edit, no matter what mechanism you are on, get over it, our gov. protects our own, GOOD! Evil exiats everywhere.
    But I can minimize the spying, I use Linux, which with the sole exception of Ubuntu proper, does not contain spyware baked into the OS and even Canonical eventually saw the light and removed the spyware from it's distro.

    Your view is like saying "you can't prevent your car from being stolen", which may technically be true but that doesn't mean that I don't lock the doors, have a car alarm, park my car in the garage, park in public garages when I go to the city and avoid parking in high risk areas.
    I don't agree. Your car being stolen is a bad thing, and it is a good thing to prevent bad things from happening to you. I don't know about spyware. Every time I have had spyware or A/V on my computer it caused more problems that it solved. It seems to me that the military built these things a long time before the computer revelation. It seems to me that everything is somewhat regulated. Now if you are talking about something that annoys you and is a hindrance on the computer than that is one thing, but to think you can run from the skies ( which whomever from VA can see whatever they want whenever they want, then you might put your car and pc on Mars, bu they can probably see what you are doing there too. I am just being dramatic, but other than banking info, why does everyone on the net have to be so secretive. How maNY s/n's p/w's and log info do i need. Open your gates to all, and leave the paranoia for the Banks.
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  9. Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    But I can minimize the spying, I use Linux, which with the sole exception of Ubuntu proper, does not contain spyware baked into the OS and even Canonical eventually saw the light and removed the spyware from it's distro.
    Here we go again, more crap being sprouted in a thread that clearly has nothing to do with you, so why don't you piss off and leave everyone else alone you troll baiting so and so.

    You don't want windows, great, leave those who do alone ok.
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  10. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Please keep the posts to windows help,other posts that bash or don't belong here will be deleted.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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    Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    But I can minimize the spying, I use Linux, which with the sole exception of Ubuntu proper, does not contain spyware baked into the OS and even Canonical eventually saw the light and removed the spyware from it's distro.
    Here we go again, more crap being sprouted in a thread that clearly has nothing to do with you, so why don't you piss off and leave everyone else alone you troll baiting so and so.

    You don't want windows, great, leave those who do alone ok.
    How people have to get so offended over computers is beyond my comprehension. What's wrong with you or another's person's opinion that you have to resort to name calling. Not the "t" word. Oh no the forum is going to the dog house b/c someone went outside the box or same old jargon for a change. Do you get all bent out of shape b/c the McDonalds girl gives you .02 less fries than last time? Hook line sinker, here little fishy. Wah
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  12. Originally Posted by mlmiller707 View Post
    How people have to get so offended over computers is beyond my comprehension. What's wrong with you or another's person's opinion that you have to resort to name calling. Not the "t" word. Oh no the forum is going to the dog house b/c someone went outside the box or same old jargon for a change. Do you get all bent out of shape b/c the McDonalds girl gives you .02 less fries than last time? Hook line sinker, here little fishy. Wah
    Because forums are meant to be for those who wish to post up a thread about a specific topic, and seek help or advice about it, not to have idiots come into that thread and totally hijack it with all this BS.

    If you don't like what i have to say, you have the right to just ignore my posts ok, its that simple, otherwise go report me to the moderators.
    Last edited by glenpinn; 21st Nov 2015 at 06:20.
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  13. @John: Just so we're clear, glennpinn is allowed to send me the following abusive and profanity laced PM:

    thanks a f-c-en lot for your bullshit in your post, windows 10 will never self install itself on any computer while the owner is away from it, so shut your mouth next time until you know what you are talking about.

    and FWIW, thanks for contributing to the closure of my thread you moron, you and the other 2 guys who also ****ed it up.

    you lot can go stuff yourself.
    Posts #93, 121, 122, 124 are allowed to talk about Windows 10 spyware BUT if I talk about the Win 10 telemetry, in a Win 10 "help" thread, my posts get deleted and not once, not twice but 3 times?

    I would like to log a formal complaint against the way you moderate this forum and the abusive and insulting PM I got from glennpinn, how do I go about doing that?
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  14. Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    @John: Just so we're clear, glennpinn (get the name right next time) is allowed to send me the following abusive and profanity laced PM:

    thanks a f-c-en lot for your bullshit in your post, windows 10 will never self install itself on any computer while the owner is away from it, so shut your mouth next time until you know what you are talking about.

    and FWIW, thanks for contributing to the closure of my thread you moron, you and the other 2 guys who also ****ed it up.

    you lot can go stuff yourself.
    Posts #93, 121, 122, 124 are allowed to talk about Windows 10 spyware BUT if I talk about the Win 10 telemetry, in a Win 10 "help" thread, my posts get deleted and not once, not twice but 3 times?

    I would like to log a formal complaint against the way you moderate this forum and the abusive and insulting PM I got from glennpinn, how do I go about doing that?
    Great, how bloody childish, i sent that to you a long time go, and now things are not going your way, you want to use it to have me removed from the forum.

    At least i did it in private and not in one of these threads, and you deserved it, so you go and dob on me and have me banned, i don't care, because guys like you (and the others) F--k it up for those who try to do the right thing by posting troll baiting rubbish, and post totally misleading bullshit in the Forum, just like you did about Win 10 self installing on someones computer.

    Finally, if you want me banned, just send the mods a private message, or hit the REPORT button in the bottom left corner of one of my posts, and see if i care, i don't need to be part of a forum that is full of cry babies like you.
    Last edited by glenpinn; 21st Nov 2015 at 09:09.
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  15. I'm a MEGA Super Moderator Baldrick's Avatar
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    Please try and stay away from personal insults. We are not even discussing politics here...but I would like to bring up Ben Carson....
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  16. Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    At least i did it in private and not in one of these threads, and you deserved it, so you go and dob on me and have me banned, i don't care, because guys like you (and the others) F--k it up for those who try to do the right thing by posting troll baiting rubbish, and post totally misleading bullshit in the Forum, just like you did about Win 10 self installing on someones computer.

    Finally, if you want me banned, just send the mods a private message, or hit the REPORT button in the bottom left corner of one of my posts, and see if i care, i don't need to be part of a forum that is full of cry babies like you.
    I don't want you banned, I want equal treatment, John has deleted my posts now 3 times when posts with abusive and profane language are permitted, as your post quoted above does, and other posts that talk about Windows spyware are also allowed.

    A thread dedicated to Win 10 help should have a discussion of the built in spying that can't be turned off in the non-Enterprise versions,

    And for the record, Win 10 WILL self install:

    https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2015/10/29/making-it-easier-to-upgrade-to-windows-10/

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/06/16/why-windows-10-upgrades-automatical...and-windows-8/

    https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2015/09/14/microsoft-downloads-windows-10-to-your-com...t-want-it-yet/

    https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2015/10/29/making-it-easier-to-upgrade-to-windows-10/

    Just so we're clear, depending on your Windows Update settings, such as if you have "install recommended updates automatically", Win 10 will install itself without any prompting from the end user because MS plans on reclassifying Win 10 as a recommended update, meaning that Win 7 and 8 user may find that they come home with Win 10 installed on their system, whether they want it or not.
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    Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    At least i did it in private and not in one of these threads, and you deserved it, so you go and dob on me and have me banned, i don't care, because guys like you (and the others) F--k it up for those who try to do the right thing by posting troll baiting rubbish, and post totally misleading bullshit in the Forum, just like you did about Win 10 self installing on someones computer.

    Finally, if you want me banned, just send the mods a private message, or hit the REPORT button in the bottom left corner of one of my posts, and see if i care, i don't need to be part of a forum that is full of cry babies like you.
    I don't want you banned, I want equal treatment, John has deleted my posts now 3 times when posts with abusive and profane language are permitted, as your post quoted above does, and other posts that talk about Windows spyware are also allowed.

    A thread dedicated to Win 10 help should have a discussion of the built in spying that can't be turned off in the non-Enterprise versions,

    And for the record, Win 10 WILL self install:

    https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2015/10/29/making-it-easier-to-upgrade-to-windows-10/

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/06/16/why-windows-10-upgrades-automatical...and-windows-8/

    https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2015/09/14/microsoft-downloads-windows-10-to-your-com...t-want-it-yet/

    https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2015/10/29/making-it-easier-to-upgrade-to-windows-10/

    Just so we're clear, depending on your Windows Update settings, such as if you have "install recommended updates automatically", Win 10 will install itself without any prompting from the end user because MS plans on reclassifying Win 10 as a recommended update, meaning that Win 7 and 8 user may find that they come home with Win 10 installed on their system, whether they want it or not.
    I love Windows 10, I love a good troll, , and I think we owe the world to Xerox.
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    I install all updates manually after finding that the Windows 10 installer (a 3 GB file) will now be automatically downloaded to Windows 7 and 8.1 systems (just like security patches), and seeing a few reports that some PCs have apparently been upgraded to Windows 10 without deliberate user intervention. My PCs function as HTPCs and I need to keep Windows Media Center to have the ability to record programming flagged copy-once until an alternative for recording copy-once material becomes available.

    [Edit] I think I can trust Forbes to a greater extent than any self-proclaimed Windows 10 expert belonging this forum: http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/06/16/why-windows-10-upgrades-automatical...and-windows-8/
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 21st Nov 2015 at 16:27.
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  19. Yes, we are all careful now updating older Windows, thanks to those who contribute in threads like these about Microsoft preemptive strikes to treat windows update as a regular upgrade , so are welcomed those contributors trying to describe advantages of new Windows 10.

    So it is up to anyone to sort this out. Possibly make new arrangements if handling win10. Both sides should not attack the other, it makes no sense. I would react the same sometimes, only reading the thread a month later thinking why I was on edge then, that it made no sense. Folks that decided to read threads like this are not stupid, they usually sort out what was said by anyone in anyway.
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  20. There are only 2 advantages to Win 10, namely DX12 and support for AVX-512, which will not be supported by any older Windows version. But that comes at a very steep price, at for me, namely all the included spyware or what MS likes to call telemetry. Clearly MS knows that this isn't a good idea because in the Enterprise version of Win 10 and the Enterprise versions of Win 10 server they allow telemetry to be completely turned off.

    Let me be clear about this, if you plan on upgrading to Win 10 make sure to get the Enterprise version.
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  21. Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    Just so we're clear, depending on your Windows Update settings, such as if you have "install recommended updates automatically", Win 10 will install itself without any prompting from the end user because MS plans on reclassifying Win 10 as a recommended update, meaning that Win 7 and 8 user may find that they come home with Win 10 installed on their system, whether they want it or not.
    This is what i was referring to before, so what i like to know is where, in any of those links you posted, does it say anything about Windows 10 Installing the upgrade all by itself (self install) onto your system (especially while you are not there) and do it without your permission, or any prompting from you ????????????????

    There is big difference between automatically Downloading the package onto your PC via a windows update, and actually Installing the upgrade onto your PC without your permission, especially self installing it while you are not at your PC while it happens.

    Depending on how you have configured your Windows updates, there is a very good chance that unwittingly, the required update for the download package will be installed on your system, and at some time, the 3gb Windows 10 package will automatically be downloaded onto your system, and the installer package will sit on your system until you manually trigger the upgrade, and that's how it works, if you want it, you trigger the upgrade installation from the task bar, which by the way, works in almost the same way that a custom installation works, but without your hard drive being wiped and formatted, as it will install the Win 10 over the top of your previous windows, in the same partition, and throw your old windows into a folder called windows.old which stays on your computer for 30 days so you can revert back to it if you don't like Win 10.

    If you don't want to install windows 10 via the upgrade offer, you just do nothing, you just put up with that nagging Upgrade icon in your taskbar, but there is a way to remove that icon, as well as remove the 3gb downloaded installer package too, just do a google search, you will find it.

    Just for the record, Microsoft cannot move you over without your permission (legally or otherwise) especially if you paid for a previous windows version, and you are happy with it, and no version of windows can self install itself onto any computer without anyone being present at the computer, simply because installation absolutely requires input from the computer owner all the way thru the process, and the upgrade path allows you to select from 3 different types of installations, so how can Microsoft allow a "self installation" without you being there when you need to select the upgrade path from the list before it continues, the same as every other step requires your input, so it is not an automatic process, and it never will be.

    1. Keep Personal Files and Apps
    2. Keep Personal Files Only
    3. Nothing (basically this is a complete from scratch custom install)

    To backup what i have said about how the Upgrade actually works and requires your complete input during the process, i ask you to take a look at the following 35 screenshots taken from one of my laptop upgrades, and you will clearly see that there is no way Windows 10 can be "self installed" onto any computer, and do it without your explicit permission.

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sbma7sg3f8y0l3i/AACzs9Q8EAhTM7OKfcOLtAFba?dl=0

    The only difference with the way i did mine was i already had the Windows 10 on a bootable USB stick, so rather than initiate the upgrade via the icon in the task bar, i chose to start it from the setup file on the USB stick (images 01, 02, 03 and 04) but in every upgrade, it has to be started from within your current windows desktop, and the first phase that takes place before your PC restarts and installs the upgrade is downloading some critical files, and also the setup will dial back to the Microsoft activation service to validate your current version of windows is actually legitimate, otherwise it will not do the upgrade.

    Once this part has completed, your PC will restart and begin the user controlled upgrade (images 05 onwards)

    https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2015/10/29/making-it-easier-to-upgrade-to-windows-10/

    Early next year, we expect to be re-categorizing Windows 10 as a “Recommended Update”. Depending upon your Windows Update settings, this may cause the upgrade process to automatically initiate on your device. Before the upgrade changes the OS of your device, you will be clearly prompted to choose whether or not to continue. And of course, if you choose to upgrade (our recommendation!), then you will have 31 days to roll back to your previous Windows version if you don’t love it.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/06/16/why-windows-10-upgrades-automatical...and-windows-8/

    In an effort to streamline the process, we will automatically kick off the upgrade process once you have made a reservation. Before the upgrade changes the OS of your device, you will be clearly prompted to choose whether or not to continue. And of course, if you choose to upgrade, then you will have 31 days to roll back to your previous Windows version if you don’t love it.

    This is a 3GB download and it will sit dormant on your PC until its official July 29th release date. You will then be prompted to upgrade – great news and minimum effort.

    https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2015/09/14/microsoft-downloads-windows-10-to-your-com...t-want-it-yet/

    Although you don’t have to install the update, Windows 10 hogs up a bunch of disk space (3.5 to 6 GB), and it’s apparently rather difficult to get rid of the files.

    You can get rid of the 3gb installer package, you just need to know where to locate it, just like you can remove the Win 10 upgrade prompt in your task bar.

    EDIT: Please ring Microsoft and ask them if Windows 10 will, at any time, be allowed to "automatically install onto your PC without your permission" and they will tell you that they have no legal right to do so, even if you did install that windows update, and the package was downloaded onto your computer.

    Here in Australia, Microsoft will tell you they cannot do it, you must initiate the upgrade installation, it cannot, and will not be forced on you.

    Finally, and just for the record, i am a fully qualified computer/laptop tech, been doing it for 15 years, and i hold Microsoft specialist certification for windows 7 and windows 8 desktop, and have almost completed my certification for windows 10 desktop devices, amongst other things.

    Cheers
    Last edited by glenpinn; 21st Nov 2015 at 20:37.
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    It is easy to say that others should not find the nag on their task bar annoying and should not find having an unwanted 3GB file on their hard drive annoying and should not find an extra 3GB per PC counting against their Internet data cap annoying, and it is no trouble to uninstall, when it is not your ox that is being gored.

    I removed the installer and the task bar reminder on one PC twice, before turning off all automatic updates, which is two more times than I wanted to have to bother with it and one more time than I should have had to bother with it.

    The first time was when they were delivered via an optional update. The second time was when they were delivered as a recommended update. I hid the optional update and uninstalled it. I thought that would be the end of it. Later of course Microsoft decided that putting the installer and reminder on someone's PC was as important as a security patch, and I found the installer and reminder on my PC again. At that point I decided to only update manually in case Microsoft decided to change the patch number and sneak the installer onto my PC again.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 21st Nov 2015 at 23:28. Reason: corrected terminology. I hid the update rather than disabling it
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  23. Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    Finally, and just for the record, i am a fully qualified computer/laptop tech, been doing it for 15 years, and i hold Microsoft specialist certification for windows 7 and windows 8 desktop, and have almost completed my certification for windows 10 desktop devices, amongst other things.
    Well that explains everything, you have a financial interest in MS success with it's new OS, so we need to take everything you say with a huge grain of salt. I kind of suspected that you had some connection to MS, either an employee, a paid spokesman tasked with creating positive buzz and countering any criticism of MS or a former employee with a MS pension or someone with a stock portfolio with MS holdings.

    Unfortunately for you, I too have a decent tech background and I can conclusively prove that you lied. You stated:

    no version of windows can self install itself onto any computer without anyone being present at the computer, simply because installation absolutely requires input from the computer owner all the way thru the process
    This are you exact words, are they not? And you also stated:

    i am a fully qualified computer/laptop tech, been doing it for 15 years, and i hold Microsoft specialist certification for windows 7 and windows 8 desktop, and have almost completed my certification for windows 10 desktop devices, amongst other things.i am a fully qualified computer/laptop tech, been doing it for 15 years, and i hold Microsoft specialist certification for windows 7 and windows 8 desktop, and have almost completed my certification for windows 10 desktop devices, amongst other things.
    By your own admission you hold MS certifications and you have 15 years experience AND you clearly state that no version of Windows can install itself on any computer without anyone present at the computer, so then you can't claim ignorance of the following:

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/314459

    Windows has had the ability to perform unattended installs since back in the NT days and I have performed many of them over the years.

    There are reports of network admins that had their domains configured a certain way as to centrally manage all Windows updates finding that the systems they were responsible for had been "upgraded" to Win 10 without their interaction, you know something that you claim can't possibly happen.

    As for the the legality of it, that is covered by the EULA, something that MS can change with the issuance of a required update.

    http://www.techworm.net/2015/10/microsoft-once-more-forcing-windows-7-users-to-upgrade...indows-10.html

    People have read what you have to say, they have read what I have to say and they know that you make your living in part thanks to MS products and so have a vested interest in seeing Microsoft's "latest and greatest" succeed.

    It would have been more ethical of you to disclose this fact before you started the mudslinging and Win 10 apologizing but I guess better late than never.
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  24. Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    Well that explains everything, you have a financial interest in MS success with it's new OS, so we need to take everything you say with a huge grain of salt.
    Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    Windows has had the ability to perform unattended installs since back in the NT days and I have performed many of them over the years.

    There are reports of network admins that had their domains configured a certain way as to centrally manage all Windows updates finding that the systems they were responsible for had been "upgraded" to Win 10 without their interaction, you know something that you claim can't possibly happen.
    This is just another case of you manipulating things to meet your own end goal, how on earth can i hold some kind of financial interest in Microsoft, just because i have Microsoft desktop environment certification for Windows 7 and 8, plus gaining it for Windows 10 ???

    This has nothing to do with my certification or experience, this has everything to do with the Facts, and i am talking specifically about the Windows 10 desktop environments, and the free windows 10 upgrade being made available to the public, and having to launch that upgrade from within the current users desktop.

    This has nothing to do with network admins configuring domains a certain way, this has nothing to do with mass volume installations and auto unattended installations, so why are you even bringing this subject up in here, most people would have no idea what you are talking about.

    I still call BS on your comment that states that the free windows 10 upgrade will install Automatically on a users computer without them knowing about it, or giving consent by accepting the terms and conditions of use, again this is for the free upgrade being made to the general population.

    Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    As for the the legality of it, that is covered by the EULA, something that MS can change with the issuance of a required update.
    Yes, but as it currently stands, Microsoft cannot, without your express acceptance and initiation, automatically self install the current free windows 10 upgrade onto any desktop computer, even if they registered interest and the 3gb install package was downloaded onto their computer, and i have not seen any proof of any case where a member of the public has had this happen to them without them initiating the upgrade from their current desktop, as far as my own upgrades are concerned, when you initiate the upgrade, you can elect how and when to do it, and you accept the terms of use prior to it starting.

    If Microsoft want to change the rules in the future, they can, but they run the risk of a massive backlash, so my prediction is they would not have the guts to even try it on the general public, but time will tell, and this is just my opinion, so you can take it any way you like.

    Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    People have read what you have to say, they have read what I have to say and they know that you make your living in part thanks to MS products and so have a vested interest in seeing Microsoft's "latest and greatest" succeed.
    LOL i don't make any living from doing any kind of involvement with using microsoft product, so get your facts right before posting such rubbish.
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  25. Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    As for the the legality of it, that is covered by the EULA, something that MS can change with the issuance of a required update.

    http://www.techworm.net/2015/10/microsoft-once-more-forcing-windows-7-users-to-upgrade...indows-10.html
    Still says nothing about the Free Windows 10 upgrade being "self installed" without you knowing, and without your permission, it just states that Microsoft is apparently"forcing" people to upgrade by installing an update that downloads the installer package, and that is not quite correct, just because they install updates and download the installer package onto your computer, isn't actually "forcing" the user to do the upgrade, if you don't want it, you do not have to install it, and they have no right to install it behind your back, and that is what i have been saying all along, its that simple.

    Like i said before, in all my discussions about windows 10, it only has relevance to the Free Upgrade being made to the general public via windows updates, and nothing else, so my certifications are for general Windows 7, 8, and 10 Desktop environments only, and nothing more.

    I am not a system Admin, i am not a volume installer or OEM builder, or any other type of tech, so i don't have the relevant certification for any of that, all i have dealt with is general desktop computers that the general public uses on a day to day basis.

    Edit: If you want to introduce all this other stuff into your arguments that is not related to desktop users, then you can, but it is not relevant to anything that i am talking about.
    Last edited by glenpinn; 22nd Nov 2015 at 01:52.
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  26. Originally Posted by glenpinn View Post
    This is just another case of you manipulating things to meet your own end goal, how on earth can i hold some kind of financial interest in Microsoft, just because i have Microsoft desktop environment certification for Windows 7 and 8, plus gaining it for Windows 10 ???

    LOL i don't make any living from doing any kind of involvement with using microsoft product, so get your facts right before posting such rubbish.
    Before we go any further, you said that you have Win 7 and Win 8 MS certs and are currently working towards your Win 10 cert, correct? I'll admit it's been a while since I looked at the cost of the MS certifications but as I recall MCSE certs were not cheap. I did find reference to a Windows 7, Enterprise Desktop Support Technician certification that costs $150, I'm assuming that a Win 8 and a Win 10 cert would cost a similar amount.

    I doubt that you are spending the money on these certifications as part of a hobby, I have to assume you make a living with them, somehow? Do you work in help desk or some similar environment? If so you have a financial interest in Microsoft's success, you make a living supporting their products. If people stopped using MS Oses, if your company said tomorrow we're moving to a Ubuntu environment you're certs wouldn't do you any good. Likewise you need people to "upgrade" to Microsoft's latest and greatest, because as time passes people get more and more experienced with the current crop of OSes and have less and less need of someone with certification in those older OSes.

    A perfect example would be Windows Server 2008, by now everyone knows how to administer Server 2008, as everyone know how to administer Win XP and Win 7, in fact the Win 7 cert becomes deprecated at the end of this year according to MS. You show up for an interview or ask for a raise and the company is still using Win 7 or Server 2008 you can't leverage your experience because by now everyone has similar experience.

    But, you talk your current employer into "upgrading" to Win 10 for the desktop and you happen to have a Win 10 cert, you now become one of a few that can administer the new OS and thus you can demand a higher salary and or ensure that you can't be replaced.

    At least be honest with yourself, if you can't be honest with us, you need MS' new OS to be widely deployed, because it puts money in your pocket. If people decided to leave Windows and switch to PC-BSD that wouldn't be good for you, now would it?

    If you're going to sit here and recommend that people switch wholesale to Win 10 and try and downplay any real concerns about the built in keyloggers, data collection, built in spyware, then at least be man enough to say from the get go that you have the certs you say you have, are working on getting a Win 10 cert and that it's in your best interest for people to switch to Win 10.

    Your posts border on being sponsored content, in a Win 10 thread, you object to anyone mentioning Win 10 issues such as telemetry (which is nothing more than built in spyware), you, with the help of a mod that i strongly suspect also has a similar vested interest in Win 10 taking a broad foothold, have managed to get posts deleted that pointed out concessions one has to make when they switch to Win 10 and you have become hostile and abusive when anyone has said anything other than glowing praise for Win 10.

    You make your money from Windows, just admit it.
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    And for the record, Win 10 WILL self install:
    No, it won't IF turned your automatic updates completely OFF.
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  28. Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    Before we go any further, you said that you have Win 7 and Win 8 MS certs and are currently working towards your Win 10 cert, correct? I'll admit it's been a while since I looked at the cost of the MS certifications but as I recall MCSE certs were not cheap. I did find reference to a Windows 7, Enterprise Desktop Support Technician certification that costs $150, I'm assuming that a Win 8 and a Win 10 cert would cost a similar amount.

    I doubt that you are spending the money on these certifications as part of a hobby, I have to assume you make a living with them, somehow? Do you work in help desk or some similar environment?

    You make your money from Windows, just admit it.
    you know what, you are just a pretender, you made a blatant claim that the Windows 10 upgrade can, or will, Self Install itself while the computer is unattended and without any input by the user, and that is absolute and utter rubbish, then you called me a liar for saying that no windows can self install itself, when you know i was referring to the current Windows 10 upgrade for the general public, and because you can't come back at me for both those points, you now want to turn this debate completely on its head once again (as you have been doing all along) and now make accusations about me that are absolute blatant lies.

    Certifications are not expensive, they are actually quite cheap, and i hold just 2 of them, almost finished the third one, and i only do them because i want to, and i know lots of other guys who also completed certifications, many actually have well over 10, and none of them works in the computer or IT industry.

    I have never worked for any company as a computer tech or in any kind of IT role, and my only career paths have been as a building contractor, and now as a videographer for the past 8 years, and the only work i do with computers and laptops are for family members, friends of family, and my own friends, plus i look after and maintain all the computers and laptops that belong to my kids friends, and i do volunteer work helping and teaching elderly people to use their laptops and get on the internet, and all of this is unpaid work, and i personally don't care if you believe that or not, but you have no right to make these claims about me when you have no way to prove them.

    You don't have to work in the industry just because you gain certifications, i do it purely for the knowledge and interest, the cost is nothing, its cheap, and i can afford it.

    As i said before, it is still BS that the windows 10 upgrade will self install onto a computer while the user is not there, the upgrade installation has to be manually triggered by the user, and you have to be at your computer for it to work, i proved that with my folder of screenshots of the actual process.

    Again, the windows updates might trigger the download of the installer package for windows 10 upgrade, but the upgrade will not self install itself, as you, and i believe others have claimed, and if you don't believe that, ring microsoft and ask them.

    Also, Your posts border on being sponsored content this is absolute and utter BS, and you know it, and if you wish to make these kinds of accusations about me, then best you be ready for what will follow.

    I support nobody, and i do not get sponsored by anyone for anything i say in a forum, all i am doing is responding to some of the Crap that is being said by you about windows 10, and i have every right to do or say what i like, just as you have, so back off and stick the topic of the thread.

    EDIT: oh, btw, if the windows 10 upgrade does, or will "self install" itself while you are away from your computer, and you return home to find a brand new windows 10 desktop on your computer, can you please tell me which of the 3 types of installations it will do by default,

    1. will it wipe everything (your files and apps) and do what is basically a clean install
    2. will it leave just your Files and wipe the Apps
    3. or will it leave your Files and Apps there and just upgrade the operating system.

    I would really love to know the answer to this, because when i do the upgrade manually, i have these 3 choices to choose from.
    Last edited by glenpinn; 22nd Nov 2015 at 17:04.
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  29. Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/314459

    Windows has had the ability to perform unattended installs since back in the NT days and I have performed many of them over the years.

    There are reports of network admins that had their domains configured a certain way as to centrally manage all Windows updates finding that the systems they were responsible for had been "upgraded" to Win 10 without their interaction, you know something that you claim can't possibly happen.
    What on earth does a link describing an unattended installation of Win200 from a CD have to do with the Win10 upgrade installing without first asking?
    And how are you managing to confuse an unattended installation with some sort of automatic installation? Even an unattended installation doesn't happen by magic. It has to be initiated by the user and in the case of Win200 (and probably newer versions to) it requires the user to create an answer file. Then it'll install without requiring further input.

    Any evidence of the "reports from networks admins" you referred to?
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  30. Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
    Any evidence of the "reports from networks admins" you referred to?
    Google stopped working on your computer? Maybe you can get "Glenn" with his Windows Certs to help you.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/07/windows_10_auto_injects_itself_into_windows_7/

    http://www.ghacks.net/2015/10/15/windows-users-report-windows-10-upgrades-are-enforced...their-systems/

    Reports are coming in that Windows 10 upgrades seem to be enforced on some systems without users explicitly giving permissions beforehand to download and install the upgrade to Microsoft's newest operating system.

    Update: A Microsoft spokesperson confirmed that the enforcement was a mistake, and that Microsoft removed Windows 10 from Windows Update for users who have not reserved a copy of Windows 10
    http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/213979-microsoft-thinks-youll-love-windows-10-so-mu...without-asking

    We at ET havenít seen this behavior directly ó Iím still on Windows 7 myself, and my Windows Update history shows no sign of repeated failed Windows 10 installs ó but one of our staffers, David Cardinal, has had his own unusual experience with Windows 10. According to David, he left on a two-week trip with an HTPC box running Windows 8.1U and came back to find it running Windows 10. Windows Update was configured to install automatic updates, and Microsoft has flagged Windows 10 as an important update ó so itís at least theoretically possible that the box automatically installed the new operating system.
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