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  1. Renegade gll99's Avatar
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    I asked Baldrick if he had to buy an upgrade disc because I upgraded my original Win8 pro (OEM from disc - effectively retail see note below) to win 10 pro installed on older hardware (LGA775, sataII, usb2.0 technology ) as part of the free upgrade. I'd like to remove it from that PC and reinstall it on a bit newer hardware (LGA1150) sataIII, onboard usb 3.0, 16B ram etc.... Unfortunately it seems if I do that I'll end up back with win8 pro and win8.1 pro after version update.

    NOTE:
    I've said this before but for the few who might argue OEM licenses can't be transferred from the hardware they were installed on you are right except for this release. MS did not sell an official standalone Window 8 pro but released an OEM version with the same license transfer rights which effectively made it the same as a retail version at least in terms of transferring the os. The main difference is the lack of support which is supposed to come from the system builder (me).
    Last edited by gll99; 11th Mar 2017 at 01:21.
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  2. I'm a MEGA Super Moderator Baldrick's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gll99 View Post
    Originally Posted by Baldrick View Post
    I finally upgraded to Windows 10 from Windows 7(just upgrade no fresh install). No problems yet and it also fixed my nvidia graphics driver issues(I couldn't upgrade the drivers).
    Did you have to buy an upgrade disc or is MS still providing a free upgrade from7-8 to 10 like last year.
    I used the free assistive upgrade....
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    Originally Posted by gll99 View Post
    NOTE:
    I've said this before but for the few who might argue OEM licenses can't be transferred from the hardware they were installed on you are right except for this release. MS did not sell an official standalone Window 8 pro but released an OEM version with the same license transfer rights which effectively made it the same as a retail version at least in terms of transferring the os. The main difference is the lack of support which is supposed to come from the system builder (me).
    Maybe this will help: https://www.groovypost.com/howto/transfer-windows-10-license-new-pc/
    Ignore list: hello_hello, tried, TechLord
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  4. Marsia Mariner
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    Forget the free-upgrade nonsense, just buy the damn install disc or USB-stick, problem solved
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  5. Renegade gll99's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by gll99 View Post
    NOTE:
    I've said this before but for the few who might argue OEM licenses can't be transferred from the hardware they were installed on you are right except for this release. MS did not sell an official standalone Window 8 pro but released an OEM version with the same license transfer rights which effectively made it the same as a retail version at least in terms of transferring the os. The main difference is the lack of support which is supposed to come from the system builder (me).
    Maybe this will help: https://www.groovypost.com/howto/transfer-windows-10-license-new-pc/
    Yes thanks I've seen that article before but it doesn't cover my situation . As I read it he's mainly referring to transferring full and retail versions that have been installed or upgraded from purchased win10 media or upgrades from full retail 7 or 8 versions. The part that discusses the free upgrades for others puts oem and volume licenses in the same category as pre-installed OS and he doesn't really say much on those or even indicate that there could be various types of licenses.


    If you upgraded from a retail copy of Windows 7, Windows 8 or 8.1, the Windows 10 license carries the retail rights from which it was derived.
    If you upgraded from an OEM Windows 7, Windows 8 or 8.1 license, these are licenses that come preinstalled on a new computer from a manufacturer, and then your Windows 10 license maintains the OEM rights.
    He then says MS identifies all Win10 upgrade licenses as retail regardless of source so I can't tell how they saw my original key.

    with the release of Windows 10 November Update, 1511, Microsoft made modifications to the channel license. Previously, you could identify the channel from which, the license was derived by issuing a particular Windows command. The November Update, now describes all licenses upgraded, whether full package or OEM as retail. Even though your free upgrade to Windows 10 from an OEM Windows 7 or Windows 8/8.1 is now identified as retail, in spirit, it is still an OEM license.

    This affects the rights to what you can do with the license. If itís retail, you can continue to make hardware modifications to your system such as changing the motherboard or move it to a different computer. For an OEM version, if you change the motherboard, automatically, your free upgrade will be invalidated; meaning, you will have to purchase a new full retail Windows 10 license.

    As I said I purchased the OEM disc and installed Win8 pro myself. Unlike most oem and VL licenses my disc came with full transfer rights of Win8 pro to another PC if I uninstall it from the current one. The hitch is that MS can continue to honor that warranty but not allow me the free upgrade again since there is no implied warranty of a license upgrade to a newer OS (Win10) for anyone even though they may allow other retail licenses to be upgraded many times they don't have to allow it. They didn't release a retail Win8 pro so I bought the OEM because it had full transfer rights to another PC. If MS decides to dig in their heels all they have to do is allow me to transfer my original Win8 pro to my new PC and allow me to patch it including 8.1 if I wish and they have met their licensing obligation. I'm concerned that the upgrade is entirely at their discretion.

    To his point about identifying license types once win10 is installed: He's right. While the product ID and CD key are different, both the upgraded Win10 pro on my desktop (upgraded from my Win8 pro) and an upgraded laptop originally a Win8 home pre-installed volume license upgraded to win10 home show the source information as "Installed from 'Full Packaged Product' media" when using a key finder. So it doesn't help to see how my standalone Win8 pro OEM will be treated as far as free to upgrade now that we are outside the free period (assistive upgrade option / loophole aside).
    Last edited by gll99; 11th Mar 2017 at 12:34.
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    Originally Posted by gll99 View Post
    Yes thanks I've seen that article before but it doesn't cover my situation . As I read it he's mainly referring to transferring full and retail versions that have been installed or upgraded from purchased win10 media or upgrades from full retail 7 or 8 versions. The part that discusses the free upgrades for others puts oem and volume licenses in the same category as pre-installed OS and he doesn't really say much on those or even indicate that there could be various types of licenses.


    If you upgraded from a retail copy of Windows 7, Windows 8 or 8.1, the Windows 10 license carries the retail rights from which it was derived.
    If you upgraded from an OEM Windows 7, Windows 8 or 8.1 license, these are licenses that come preinstalled on a new computer from a manufacturer, and then your Windows 10 license maintains the OEM rights.
    He then says MS identifies all Win10 upgrade licenses as retail regardless of source so I can't tell how they saw my original key.

    with the release of Windows 10 November Update, 1511, Microsoft made modifications to the channel license. Previously, you could identify the channel from which, the license was derived by issuing a particular Windows command. The November Update, now describes all licenses upgraded, whether full package or OEM as retail. Even though your free upgrade to Windows 10 from an OEM Windows 7 or Windows 8/8.1 is now identified as retail, in spirit, it is still an OEM license.

    This affects the rights to what you can do with the license. If itís retail, you can continue to make hardware modifications to your system such as changing the motherboard or move it to a different computer. For an OEM version, if you change the motherboard, automatically, your free upgrade will be invalidated; meaning, you will have to purchase a new full retail Windows 10 license.

    As I said I purchased the OEM disc and installed Win8 pro myself. Unlike most oem and VL licenses my disc came with full transfer rights of Win8 pro to another PC if I uninstall it from the current one. The hitch is that MS can continue to honor that warranty but not allow me the free upgrade again since there is no implied warranty of a license upgrade to a newer OS (Win10) for anyone even though they may allow other retail licenses to be upgraded many times they don't have to allow it. They didn't release a retail Win8 pro so I bought the OEM because it had full transfer rights to another PC. If MS decides to dig in their heels all they have to do is allow me to transfer my original Win8 pro to my new PC and allow me to patch it including 8.1 if I wish and they have met their licensing obligation. I'm concerned that the upgrade is entirely at their discretion.

    To his point about identifying license types once win10 is installed: He's right. While the product ID and CD key are different, both the upgraded Win10 pro on my desktop (upgraded from my Win8 pro) and an upgraded laptop originally a Win8 home pre-installed volume license upgraded to win10 home show the source information as "Installed from 'Full Packaged Product' media" when using a key finder. So it doesn't help to see how my standalone Win8 pro OEM will be treated as far as free to upgrade now that we are outside the free period (assistive upgrade option / loophole aside).
    Since nothing in this article or any other reference you have read covers your situation to your satisfaction, I expect you will have to try installing the license obtained via the upgrade on your new machine to know for certain what happens.

    I plan to buy a new Windows 10 license regardless because I only qualified for Win 10 Home 64-bit via the update and would prefer Windows 10 Pro 64-bit on my new machine, when I get around to building one.
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    ohhh..... just give it a while.....
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    Originally Posted by joecass View Post
    ohhh..... just give it a while.....
    I don't expect that there will be a lot of problems resulting from using Windows 10 Pro on a Kaby Lake or Coffee Lake system, and I'll be doing a fresh install. Plus, it isn't as though Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 are good alternatives for that hardware. ...and Linux isn't an option for the software that I want to use.
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  9. Renegade gll99's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post

    .......Since nothing in this article or any other reference you have read covers your situation to your satisfaction, I expect you will have to try installing the license obtained via the upgrade on your new machine to know for certain what happens.......
    I can't risk that since from what I read it requires a call to MS to activate the license on the new PC and they might kill the Win10 license to ensure it's invalid on the old PC. If I'm unsuccessful on the new PC and try to reactivate the old I could be out of luck in both cases.

    Every lead I follow on MS sites confirm the rights of transfer that come with the standalone Win8 pro OEM with the "For Personal Use" provision that wasn't available with Win7 and Win 8.1 OEM versions but it stops short when it comes to the free upgrade path to Win10 on a new PC for my version. When it comes to Windows 7-8.1-10 There seems to be mainly 2 link paths to follow. One speaks of full retail installations and upgrades and the other is those concerning the "OEM Partner Center" where most of the discussion concerns volume license info and upgrade paths. They mention Win 8 pro licensing as being different but don't discuss the upgrade path since obviously it doesn't apply to those manufacturers, builders and vendors.

    Unless someone breaks ground, posts it and I see it, I won't gamble. I am keeping the old PC which originally had XP on it which I don't mind re-using if I can have Win10 on the new one. I know I won't lose the Win 8 pro license but I don't really want to lose the upgraded Win10 license and put Win 8 pro on the new PC unless I have to. I just wish MS was clearer on that license given that they never released retail Win 8 and Win8 pro standalone versions but instead invented the "For Personal Use" provision which they kind of left hanging as an in between that never gets sufficiently explained when discussing the upgrade path.
    Last edited by gll99; 11th Mar 2017 at 20:48.
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  10. Here is the thing about Windows licenses. Not even Microsoft can tell you whether a certain configuration will activate properly. Their licensing rules are that complex. Here is a conversation that happens everyday:

    Company A: How many Windows licenses do I need?
    MS: Not sure.
    Company A: Will 100 be enough?
    MS: Maybe.

    So who knows what sort of rules are attached to the "upgrade" version of W10. You are not willing "risk" it, but seem quite comfortable asking someone else to "risk" it. What are you six? Grow a pair and "risk" it. I never understood the logic of people willing to spend money on hw but not sw. Maybe it is because most $60 crapware is just thatócrap. But I wouldn't put Windows in that category. And if the cost of Windows is that distasteful, there is always Linux.

    Do I love W10? meh. I have been OS agnostic for more than a decade. Do I love that it was/is free for W7/8 users? Absolutely! I was forced to upgrade last year due to some software issues for a key program I run everyday. But I was ready because I had downloaded the upgrade several months prior just in case.
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  11. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    gll99,

    This may or may not apply to your situation, but as a general principle I think it is essential to have a good boot partition image (I like to go a step further, adding an entire cloned boot HDD to the mix), for a recent, working condition replica of the OS, with all of its installed apps, user customizing, etc. That way you have a fallback, should something go very wrong. (And things do go wrong: I just had W7U get trashed again by a MS update. Hardly a first for that !) This would be for any OS I relied upon.

    Win 10 is a non-starter for me, though. Come the product's EOL in 2020, I may be running a Win-7 VM inside of Linux . . . or who knows what ?
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
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  12. Originally Posted by Seeker47 View Post
    boot partition
    barf, what is this, the 1990s?

    +1 on advice to image os though (hopefully an ssd, if not, time to get one)

    Originally Posted by Seeker47 View Post
    Win 10 is a non-starter for me, though.
    That is a luxury you obviously enjoy. Many sw firms don't bother updating their programs for w7/8 any longer.
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    Originally Posted by SameSelf View Post
    Originally Posted by Seeker47 View Post
    boot partition
    barf, what is this, the 1990s?

    +1 on advice to image os though (hopefully an ssd, if not, time to get one)

    Originally Posted by Seeker47 View Post
    Win 10 is a non-starter for me, though.
    That is a luxury you obviously enjoy. Many sw firms don't bother updating their programs for w7/8 any longer.
    Obviously coming from someone who has drunk the 10 Koolaid. I'm sure there must be programs like this, and likely more as time goes on, but I can't think of a single app I have which has been rendered obsolete or unusable in this way. Or which had an update I needed but could not apply. My Video Apps folder must have over 40 programs in it, the Audio Apps folder around 20, and there are several other category folders. PDF Tools, etc. etc. (I like having a well-stocked toolbox !)
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
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  14. You "can't think of a single app". So you admit to being wrong?
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    The truth is that regardless of whether someone upgrades to a newer version of Windows or not, they may be unable to use some hardware or software that they want to use.

    Those who update their system to a newer version of Windows often find that some of their existing software/hardware either won't function correctly or won't function at all afterwards. On the other hand those who don't update find that as time goes on, more and more new software/hardware is incompatible with their older version of Windows.
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    There's been heaps of controversy associated with Microsoft's latest operating system Windows 10 since it was launched, but the latest issue takes the cake Ė apparently Windows has been quietly logging every single keystroke users make on their keyboards from the beginning. Even better, that data is being constantly sent to Microsoft's servers on a regular basis.

    https://www.yahoo.com/tech/windows-10-keylogger-stop-microsoft-172607174.html
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    Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
    There's been heaps of controversy associated with Microsoft's latest operating system Windows 10 since it was launched, but the latest issue takes the cake Ė apparently Windows has been quietly logging every single keystroke users make on their keyboards from the beginning. Even better, that data is being constantly sent to Microsoft's servers on a regular basis.

    https://www.yahoo.com/tech/windows-10-keylogger-stop-microsoft-172607174.html
    I think that was an known Windows 10 "feature" from the beginning. Here is an article from 2015: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2974057/windows/how-to-turn-off-windows-10s-keylogger-y...l-has-one.html
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  18. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Among some powerful good reasons not to get on board this train . . . .
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    I think the key logger only applies if you search using Cortana/ Edge and/or voice commands. I beg to differ with the Yahoo article. On the Win 10 Pro machines I've set up, all the Privacy settings are set to "off". It takes a while to go through each and every one, and, from what I've seen, the settings remain intact after the monthly Win 10 updates. So far I don't see any great advantage to upgrading, but eventually we'll all have to use Windows 10 unless Microsoft decides on a Windows 11 or 12.....
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    There's already articles that seem to point to that the next windows os
    Will be a cloud based system. Sorta like chromebook.
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  21. A while back somewhere in this thread, someone posted about O&O's free Win10 Shut Up utility. Simple solution to the telemetry boogieman. Maybe some licensing issues/cost deploying it in an IT setting, but for the home user, gold.
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  22. Microsoft is readying a Windows 10 Creators Update for April 11. I guess this will supersede the Anniversary Update which came out last summer.

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/upcoming-features
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  23. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    I have little use for W-10, and will be numbered among the "to the bitter enders" with Win-7, but on occasion I am forced to deal with it -- so far, mainly on systems other than my own. (During 2017, I manged to kill W-10 on a couple rigs here, where it became unbootable, and I've not personally ventured back into the water since.) But, as I said, other systems -- elsewhere.

    An immediate major annoyance and set of roadblocks is the way MS periodically feels compelled to rename and relocate basic components that you formerly knew how to use. (At least, coming from W7. W7 was nowhere near as much of a departure from the UI of XP. And as we all know, W8 was a total botch.) As a result of this, any productivity on my part slows to a crawl. What is it called now ? Where the hell is it ? Why can't I still ____ like before. (Fill in the blank.)

    O.K., it's not called Windows Explorer anymore (the built-in Win file manager, not the old browser), but something else. That's just the beginning.

    I did a Google search for "Windows 10 cheat sheet+name or location changes from Windows 7", and got some promising PDF or article links. They go into a fair amount of detail, which is fine. But, in the most immediate term, what I could really use is a basic cheat sheet I could print out, with maybe a couple of opposing columns:

    Old Name / Location < -- > New Name / Location
    ----------------------- -----------------------------

    Basic, but not overly skeletal. The references I've seen don't seem to bother doing this. If I have to go rummaging around in the Index of "Win 10 For Dummies" -- as I have done, repeatedly, maybe finding what I was looking for but often not -- I'm just wasting a lot more time. Have you come across something like this at-a-glance chart ?

    I have not read through the 13 pages of this thread, as yet.

    One of the links I collected headlined itself as "How to Make W10 look like W7", or something along those lines. I'll be taking a close look at that. Of particular interest would be things such as any differences that may exist in making and configuring desktop shortcuts, the Start Menu, or pins to the taskbar. And system-wide settings.
    Last edited by Seeker47; 2nd Dec 2018 at 15:59.
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    My beefs with most recent W10:
    1) Involuntary upgrade.
    2) Silenced my audio on desktop PC, forced to seek solution on internet (solved).
    3) Broke the dual cameras on my tablet (quit seeking solutions). Only 1 cam is accessible.
    I canít express enough my desire to take Billy Gates out behind the woodshed and strike him repeatedly with a keyboard.
    That also applies to that FB dink and the Google wench.
    I gotta build a woodshed first but you get the point.
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    Originally Posted by Barrythecrab View Post
    My beefs with most recent W10:
    1) Involuntary upgrade.
    2) Silenced my audio on desktop PC, forced to seek solution on internet (solved).
    3) Broke the dual cameras on my tablet (quit seeking solutions). Only 1 cam is accessible.
    I canít express enough my desire to take Billy Gates out behind the woodshed and strike him repeatedly with a keyboard.
    That also applies to that FB dink and the Google wench.
    I gotta build a woodshed first but you get the point.
    That's of a piece with things I keep hearing. You did not include the constant spying and reporting back (*), turning users into data-mining commodities.

    Also from what I've heard, the only way to avoid the forced upgrades is through LTSB -- now called LTSC -- editions, which I think must be at the 'Enterprise' level. That reportedly gets you a couple years worth of stability per version. Costs more, of course.

    [* I'm also curious to read up on reviews of products like Spybot Anti-Beacon -- probably at CNET, InfoWorld, PC Mag. Online, etc. When these first came out there were some dire warnings published, to the effect that using them would hobble and then completely trash Win-10. Supposedly, if it can't "phone home" to blab about your computer activity, Game Over. More self-serving twaddle from MS and its apologists ? I'd like to find out. Then again, I have direct personal experience with (inadvertently) trashing W-10, which did not involve any 3rd.-party products or doing anything out of the ordinary or risky.]

    btw, if you believe coverage on news programs like "60 Minutes", Billy has moved on to philanthropic pursuits and ceased having much hands-on involvement with MS some time ago.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
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