How do I burn DVD with custom subtitles and retain text position/font?

[nobodyhome]

Okay, so I've made DVDs with subtitle tracks using DVDStyler and have read about SubtitleCreator, but both (from what my limited DVD knowledge can understand) won't allow different subtitle positions nor different styles.

I've created subtitles in Aegisub with different screen positons and only 2 different fonts. One for captions/signs and one for dialogue.

What do I need to do to make a custom DVD with those subtitles included? I was thinking I could make the DVD including the menu in DVDStyler then somehow insert the subtitles somehow after, but all the applications and various tutorials have me going in circles. Can anybody help iron out what I need to do? Preferably freeware.

Thanks for any help!!

[videobruger]

You can use an Avisynth script in DVDStyler using the ASS subtitles from Aegisub. Like post #5 here. This will hardcode the subtitles.

If you want them softcoded open the ASS in Subtitle Edit and export as IDX/VOBSUB. Mux this together with the video using MKVMergeGUI and use that as input to DVDStyler. (Note you can't select a subtitle from a VMGM menu (Default menu in DVDStyler) - only from a VTS menu. You can "cheat" in DVDStyler by using "Create jumppad" for the project making it appear as if a VMGM menu may be used)

[manono]

As far as I know, the only way to do what you want is to be able to use a text-based subtitle format with styles (meaning either Aegisub or SSA) and then convert them to a graphics-based subtitle format suitable for DVD (SST or SON come to mind). And, as far as I know, the only subtitle creation program that allows for that is MaestroSBT. There may be others but I don't use them (SubtitleWorkshop, Subtitle Edit?). MaestroSBT accepts only SSA input so, if you go that route the first thing to do is convert your ASS subs to SSA.

Also, since DVD subs allow for only 4 colors and one has to be the background color (usually transparent), take that into account. And I much prefer using one of those three remaining colors as an anti-alias color and I don't know what you had planned as far as that goes, since you're using two different fonts.

I was thinking I could make the DVD including the menu in DVDStyler then somehow insert the subtitles somehow after

I do that on occasion - create the DVD without subs and then add them afterwards. Baldrick has a guide for that:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/277950-How-to-add-new-subtitles-to-an-existing-DVD

If you decide to do that, follow his Method 2.

Edit: I see videobruger is suggesting a different way to do the job.

[videobruger]

And Manono post reminds me:

In case you go for softcoded subtitles don't forget to use a palette (Watch @2:30 here) - or do a post-edit with DVDSubEdit. I attach a palette.

[nobodyhome]

@ videobruger
I looking to softcode them. When I tried what you suggested and I must have done something wrong. Not only do the subtitles not show up when I play the iso made in DVDStyler, but the subtitles in the muxed mkv didn't even have the positions or the fonts. When I go to select a subtitle track in my dvd player application it says Track 1, but there's nothing on screen. I also made sure to not add the video to a VMGM menu. I must be messing something up.


@manono
That method sounds more involved and will try that later when I have plenty of time to read all the details. I want to make sure I get it right, but right now I seem to be having trouble with subtitles and the minimal styles.


Basically I want some of the subtitle to be aligned at the top of the screen in a serif font and most at the bottom in a sans-serif font, but when I export to IDX/VOBSUB for some reason they're just plain text.

What am I doing wrong?

[manono]

@manono
That method sounds more involved and will try that later when I have plenty of time to read all the details. I want to make sure I get it right, but right now I seem to be having trouble with subtitles and the minimal styles.

The only difficulty using the method I outlined is MaestroSBT, which has a learning curve. But there are a couple of guides for its use around here. Other than that:

Open the SSA subtitle file in MaestroSBT, export SST subs and then use them in Muxman together with your video, audio, and chapter file to create a menuless DVD. Replace the video in the DVD you created in DVDStyler (or any other authoring program) with the one with subs using PGCEdit. Then while in PGCEdit 'turn on' the subs so you can access them with your remote control (or make them play by default) and choose your colors while you're at it.

I can't help with your 'What am I doing wrong' question as I don't use Subtitle Edit. I'm sure videobruger can help.

[nobodyhome]

The only difficulty using the method I outlined is MaestroSBT, which has a learning curve. But there are a couple of guides for its use around here. Other than that:

Open the SSA subtitle file in MaestroSBT, export SST subs and then use them in Muxman together with your video, audio, and chapter file to create a menuless DVD. Replace the video in the DVD you created in DVDStyler (or any other authoring program) with the one with subs using PGCEdit. Then while in PGCEdit 'turn on' the subs so you can access them with your remote control (or make them play by default) and choose your colors while you're at it.

I can't help with your 'What am I doing wrong' question as I don't use Subtitle Edit. I'm sure videobruger can help.

When explained that way it doesn't sound as complicated as I had anticipated. I'm not the best when it comes to videos, subtitles, and DVDs.

I will give it a shot and thank you.

[videobruger]

What am I doing wrong?

Actually I have a hard time imagine

First step would be the subs from Aegisub. I guess you use 2 set of styles (You could use tags). If you play your video with those subs do they turn up alright?

Next step would be Subtitle Edit. It should look like:


On the right hand side you should recognize the styles used. And then File -> Export -> Vobsub. I don't know which player you are using but in VLC you could add those Vobsub as a subtitle track and confirm they work.

And so they should after muxing to a mkv file.

In DVDStyler the default is to Omit the subtitle so make sure you select to Copy it.

[nobodyhome]

I must be really computer and subtitle challenged...

@manono I did as you instructed, but for some reason when I go to test the muxed dvd after using Muxman in VLC I don't see the subtitles. It says there's a subtitles track and I select it, but there's nothing in the video? Maybe I'm missing something obvious.

@videobruger I did as you said as well and the subtitles are attached, but when I test it in VLC they've lost their positions and styles. Everything is all the same.


I have no idea what's going on with my subtitles.

[videobruger]

they've lost their positions and styles

I don't know if it's any help but I attach a file with ASS, IDX/SUB. You can test the IDX/SUB in VLC.

Perhaps attach your ASS to a post.

[manono]

@manono I did as you instructed, but for some reason when I go to test the muxed dvd after using Muxman in VLC I don't see the subtitles. It says there's a subtitles track and I select it, but there's nothing in the video? Maybe I'm missing something obvious.

So, you managed to create SST subtitles? And you can go to them and see all the BMPs and open them? And when adding them to Muxman, it tells you how many BMPs or lines of dialog there are?

Anyway, like videobruger suggested, if you attach the ASS file I can make some subs for you to add to Muxman guaranteed to work.

[nobodyhome]

Okay, this is driving me nuts. I've attach a quick subtitle file (.ass and .ssa) with the styles I'm trying to use. I've tried everything both of you have suggested and I still can't get my subtitles to show in a muxed dvd or an mkv. I even tried the subtitles videobruger provided and I couldn't get the to play in VLC. I even tried converting them to try manono's method and nothing.

@manono Yes. I created SST and it generated BMPs (tried both uncompressed types) and it generated the image files. I could open them.
When I put everything into Muxman this is what I see:


I thought maybe I needed to use the unicode version of MaestroSBT, but that didn't work either. Maybe I'm missing some setting with the subtitles or when I'm adding them? I know how to get plain subs onto a dvd, but the dvd I'm making will get really confusing really quickly without the different styles/positions.

I'd like to be able to do this myself for future dvds so I'm really interested in how I can fix my problem.

[manono]

I just lost interest. What are CMbumpsLR, CMbumpsLL, CMbumpsUR, CMbumpsUL? Some weird fonts?

Whatever's going on, when I extract them all I get is the intro part and no dialog text at all. Also, you don't convert ASS to SSA by renaming it.

[nobodyhome]

I just lost interest. What are CMbumpsLR, CMbumpsLL, CMbumpsUR, CMbumpsUL? Some weird fonts?

Whatever's going on, when I extract them all I get is the intro part and no dialog text at all. Also, you don't convert ASS to SSA by renaming it.

I didn't just rename it. I read online that if you use Export in Aegisub and use the extension you're after ( file_name.ass -> file_name.ssa) you are essentially converting it. Or so I read. If there's a better way then please tell me.

The CMbumps are the different styles in Ageisub. One for each corner position (I was dumb and just did that). CM = commercial and I'm sure you know what a commercial bump is. The only fonts used are Tahoma and Times New Roman. The dialogue text is just "test1, test2, test3..." and so on. I thought maybe there was something wrong with my full subs so I made some quick ones from scratch instead of typing it all out again.

I have admitted that I don't know exactly what I'm doing and don't mind chalking it up to just that.

[manono]

Okay then, how about the 'real' subs? In ASS format. I can convert them properly myself. I use SubResynch which is part of the VobSub package. Your SSAs say:

[Script Info]
; Script generated by Aegisub 3.1.3
; http://www.aegisub.org/
Title: Default Aegisub file
ScriptType: v4.00+
WrapStyle: 0
ScaledBorderAndShadow: yes
YCbCr Matrix: TV.601
Last Style Storage: Default
Aegisub Video Zoom Percent: 0.500000
Aegisub Scroll Position: 0
Aegisub Active Line: 7
Export Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8)
PlayResX: 720
PlayResY: 480
Audio URI: VTS_01_1.mp4
Video File: VTS_01_1.mp4
Aegisub Video Aspect Ratio: c1.777778
Aegisub Video Position: 408

[V4 Styles]
Format: Name, Fontname, Fontsize, PrimaryColour, SecondaryColour, TertiaryColour, BackColour, Bold, Italic, BorderStyle, Outline, Shadow, Alignment, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, AlphaLevel, Encoding
Style: Dialogue,Arial,20,16777215,255,0,0,0,0,1,2,0,2,40, 40,40,0,1
Style: Signs,Times,18,16777215,255,0,0,0,0,1,2,0,6,40,40, 40,0,1
Style: OP,Times New Roman,18,16777215,0,0,0,0,0,1,2,0,6,40,40,40,0,1
Style: ED,Times New Roman,18,16777215,7631990,0,0,0,0,1,2,0,6,35,35,18 ,0,1
Style: CMbumpsLR,Times,18,16777215,255,0,0,0,0,1,2,0,3,30 ,30,30,0,1
Style: CMbumpsLL,Times,18,16777215,255,0,0,0,0,1,2,0,1,30 ,30,30,0,1
Style: CMbumpsUR,Times,18,16777215,255,0,0,0,0,1,2,0,7,30 ,30,30,0,1
Style: CMbumpsUL,Times,18,16777215,255,0,0,0,0,1,2,0,5,30 ,30,30,0,1

[Events]
Format: Marked, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:00.00,0:00:05.00,Dialogue,,0,0,0,,te st1
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:05.00,0:00:07.00,Signs,,0,0,0,,test2
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:07.00,0:00:09.00,OP,,0,0,0,,test3
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:09.00,0:00:11.00,ED,,0,0,0,,test4
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:11.00,0:00:13.00,CMbumpsLR,,0,0,0,,t est5
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:13.00,0:00:15.00,CMbumpsLL,,0,0,0,,t est6
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:15.00,0:00:17.00,CMbumpsUR,,0,0,0,,t est7
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:17.00,0:00:19.00,CMbumpsUL,,0,0,0,,t est8


while they should say (note the differences at the very top):

[Script Info]
; This is a Sub Station Alpha v4 script.
; For Sub Station Alpha info and downloads,
; go to http://www.eswat.demon.co.uk/
; or email kotus@eswat.demon.co.uk
;
; Note: This file was saved by Subresync.
;
ScriptType: v4.00
Collisions: Normal
PlayResX: 720
PlayResY: 480
Timer: 100.0000

[V4 Styles]
Format: Name, Fontname, Fontsize, PrimaryColour, SecondaryColour, TertiaryColour, BackColour, Bold, Italic, BorderStyle, Outline, Shadow, Alignment, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, AlphaLevel, Encoding
Style: CMbumpsUL,Times,18,&Hffffff,&H0000ff,&H000000,&H00 0000,0,0,1,2,0,5,30,30,30,0,1
Style: OP,Times New Roman,18,&Hffffff,&H000000,&H000000,&H000000,0,0,1 ,2,0,6,40,40,40,0,1
Style: Signs,Times,18,&Hffffff,&H0000ff,&H000000,&H000000 ,0,0,1,2,0,6,40,40,40,0,1
Style: CMbumpsUR,Times,18,&Hffffff,&H0000ff,&H000000,&H00 0000,0,0,1,2,0,7,30,30,30,0,1
Style: Default,Arial,18,&Hffffff,&H00ffff,&H000000,&H0000 00,-1,0,1,2,3,2,20,20,20,0,1
Style: CMbumpsLL,Times,18,&Hffffff,&H0000ff,&H000000,&H00 0000,0,0,1,2,0,1,30,30,30,0,1
Style: Dialogue,Arial,20,&Hffffff,&H0000ff,&H000000,&H000 000,0,0,1,2,0,2,40,40,40,0,1
Style: CMbumpsLR,Times,18,&Hffffff,&H0000ff,&H000000,&H00 0000,0,0,1,2,0,3,30,30,30,0,1
Style: ED,Times New Roman,18,&Hffffff,&H747476,&H000000,&H000000,0,0,1 ,2,0,6,35,35,18,0,1

[Events]
Format: Marked, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:00.00,0:00:05.00,Dialogue,,0000,0000 ,0000,,test1
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:05.00,0:00:07.00,Signs,,0000,0000,00 00,,test2
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:07.00,0:00:09.00,OP,,0000,0000,0000, ,test3
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:09.00,0:00:11.00,ED,,0000,0000,0000, ,test4
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:11.00,0:00:13.00,CMbumpsLR,,0000,000 0,0000,,test5
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:13.00,0:00:15.00,CMbumpsLL,,0000,000 0,0000,,test6
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:15.00,0:00:17.00,CMbumpsUR,,0000,000 0,0000,,test7
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:00:17.00,0:00:19.00,CMbumpsUL,,0000,000 0,0000,,test8

I don't know. Maybe the differences don't matter, but your SSAs showed no lines of dialog after being opened in Substation Alpha and the ones converted using SubResynch show the eight lines. However, both seem to open and work well in MaestroSBT with the subs at different parts of the screen and a few different fonts. I do think you could have chosen better fonts, though. There are some threads here about the best fonts to use for DVDs that you might want to search out.

These are all going to be the same color then, right? The reason I ask is that I always assign an anti-alias color but if you're planning on using two different main colors, then there's nothing to use for an anti-alias color. Two different main colors is the max. Up to four are allowed and one will be an outline color (black, usually) and the other the usually transparent background color. And I highly recommend having an anti-alias color for DVD subs, which will limit you to only one main color. Your call.

[nobodyhome]

Good news and bad news. Good news: Got the subtitles to load into Muxman the way they should. Bad news: When I test the VIDEO_TS file in VLC the subtitle are delayed and primary red and primary blue (which makes my eye bleed). When I replaced the video with PgcEdit the subtitles are all black. They're there and they have their styles/positions, but they're totally black.

I've gotten closer thanks to you. I'm hoping the colors and the delay are an easy fix?

I plan on making the subtitles all one color. I'll look around the forum for the posts you mentioned. I'm sure there's something about assigning an anti-alias color as well. My main this was being able to have the positions and styles. At least one different font from the dialogue font.

[manono]

The colors are easy to fix. You have to understand that the colors are allowed to be chosen from only 16 very basic colors. The colors you see when playing the DVD are overlaid on top of the colors you're seeing. Earlier videobruger mentioned using DVDSubEdit for 'fixing' the colors. Or use the palette he generously made available. I know PGCEdit allows for the import of a palette. I haven't used DVDSubEdit for that, but maybe it can too.

As for the timings, are they delayed by the same amount all the way through? Or do they start off fine and get worse as the movie goes along? If the latter, and if these are for an NTSC DVD, and if you made SST subs for Muxman, then you didn't check the 'Drop Frame' box in MaestroSBT.

The second picture below shows where and how to set it up for an antialias color.