Use Virtual Dub to edit / cut by frame numerically

[loninappleton]

I have a screen cap that has some content which should be snipped for continuity.

The content is in AVI and I can load it in Virtual Dub or (perhaps?) AviDemux.

Please give the steps to snip beginning of file to a designated frame number. I think this was partially answered at a different time but this thread is on the exact topic. I have not done this technique at all in Virtual Dub, only what is available in DVD Shrink for disks.

I have tried in the past to do this with the slider index but have motion problems with my hands.


If there is a guide ready made, advise about that.

[sambat]

In VirtualDub you can use the slider and/or the Right/Left arrow keys to highlight a range of frames.
Also, flag thingies or the Home/ End keys can be used to mark the start or end of a clip.
Easier to select the bits you don't want to keep and remove them with the Delete key.
For frame accuracy, before saving the AVI, use the same compression as the source and Smart Rendering

[loninappleton]

Ok I'll practice with the arrow and home/end keys and report any success.

Also in this job the audio has gone out of sync to a Delay of 800 ms. In viewing, I can adjust that on the fly in VLC using the J and K keys for minus and plus adjustments. Can this be applied to the file?

I've discussed many times my use of an audio process to level audio. Could this be a source of problem
with the delay? In earlier jobs a delay might be shown in the audio (as in myfile delay xxx ms.mp3) -- after demux but I cannot say which program analysis does that. AGK was used here to do the demux and resize desired.

Should I work on the larger original AVI for this edit/cut or does it matter? I realize there are multiple processes with this job. If starting over is advised I can do that. In other words,

make the snip

resize in AGK

level my audio with the tools I use for that.

[jagabo]

Also in this job the audio has gone out of sync to a Delay of 800 ms. In viewing, I can adjust that on the fly in VLC using the J and K keys for minus and plus adjustments. Can this be applied to the file?

Audio -> Interleaving -> Delay AUdio Track By [] ms. Use negative values to advance rather than delay.

[loninappleton]

Just a note to say I'm making progress already.
For others reading, use of Virtual Dub defaults to full stream processing under the video tab.
To avoid making a huge output file, chjange this to Direct Stream at each program load. It also speeds the processing of the edit greatly.

In loading/reloading I made the mistake once already this morning.

I will report further progress

[hello_hello]

If you don't use direct stream copy, you'll be re-encoding the video. Or outputting uncompressed video.
If you change encoder settings, ie to direct stream copy, you can make those settings the defaults. Switch to direct steam copy and use the File/Save Processing Settings menu. Save the file to the same folder as VirtualDub, and call it "default.vcf". Next time you open VirtualDub, direct stream copy should already be selected.

Edit: The info above to get VirtualDub to load the default.vcf file isn't complete. See post #36 in this thread for more details.

And yes, you should use the same delay when muxing the levelated audio as the original. If AutoGK wrote a delay to the original audio's file name, that's what you should have used. If it was originally a DVD video, DGIndex would have written any audio delay to the file name when it extracted the audio (which is retained if it's re-encodes as MP3), and AutoGK would apply that delay when muxing the AVI.

[loninappleton]

An excellent tip. Much appreciated.

[jagabo]

For others reading, use of Virtual Dub defaults to full stream processing under the video tab.
To avoid making a huge output file, chjange this to Direct Stream at each program load. It also speeds the processing of the edit greatly.

In Direct Stream Copy mode you don't get frame accurate edits with inter-frame codecs. Some codecs may go 10 seconds or more between key frames. Use VirtualDub's Smart Rendering feature to re-encode only cut GOPs.

[loninappleton]

Greetings HH,

Glad you joined the discussion.

The original is a screen capture. I put that AVI directly into AGK not knowing how else to get the size down. The size reduction to 73% recorded in the log. AGK temp folder's mp3 demux of the AVI shows no delay.

I'm wary of using full stream for the amount of disk space. If after reading the above you recommend a switch to that, I'll dedicate a small disk to it.

@ Jagabo

What codec packs should I have installed? VLC says you don't need them but perhaps I need a better understanding of using K-Lite or whatevs with Virtual Dub. I recall a CCC codec pack as well. Are there newer ones I'm not aware of?

The more there is to do the slower my responses may be. I need time to absorb things. Then I'll put it into a series of repeatable steps like I did for leveling jobs.

[loninappleton]

@HH

I've been on a new hardware hunt and wondered if you made your upgrade of hardware and Win7?

My hardware interest has gone to Xeon matched pair chips that are available in the used market. Apparently those server chips can perform what are called single thread operations faster. I've made no decision on it.

[poisondeathray]

My hardware interest has gone to Xeon matched pair chips that are available in the used market. Apparently those server chips can perform what are called single thread operations faster. I've made no decision on it.

No , xeons of the same processor generation and class will be slower for single threaded tasks. and about 3-4x more expensive than their desktop counterparts. They are clocked slower - that's the simple reason, and their ram is slower (registered DIMMS). They need more expensive motherboards and ram, and usually cannot overclock (or very mildly with some hardware mods). They are for better suited for enterprise workloads, massively multithreaded , and virtualization

For the tasks you are doing in vdub, editing and encoding, it will be much more expensive (probably 6-8x when you factor in the suitable workstation parts like compatible memory, mobo, PSU etc..) and significantly slower with a dual socket setup than a desktop setup even at stock speeds. Even the single socket xenons (that don't have QPI links enabled, and cannot work with 2 sockets) are about 30-40% more expensive and the same speed as the desktop counterpart. Supposedly they are "binned" higher but there is no proof of that - they perform the same or worse (because of slower memory, lack of overclocking)

[jagabo]

What codec packs should I have installed?

None. You should download and install only the codecs you need. If you're looking for fast lossless codecs for screen capture, and work with VirtualDub, try huffyuv or ut video codec.

[hello_hello]

The original is a screen capture. I put that AVI directly into AGK not knowing how else to get the size down. The size reduction to 73% recorded in the log. AGK temp folder's mp3 demux of the AVI shows no delay.

I assumed you were just editing with VirtualDub, in which case direct stream copy would keep the original video (no re-encoding) but if you want to reduce the file size you'll need to re-encode. I'd edit first, then encode the edited version. If the original is already some sort of lossless format, it should make accurate editing easier.
As far as I remember, AutoGK doesn't automatically apply any audio delay when encoding AVIs.
Check the original AVI with MediaInfo (html view). If there's no delay in the audio section you're done.
If there's a delay specified, check the encoded version. It might show the same delay because some muxing programs add junk data to the audio stream instead of a delay, and that should be carried over to the new AVI, assuming you didn't re-encode the audio.
If the original AVI has an audio delay and the encoded version doesn't, you'll probably need to open the encoded version with VirtualDub and add a delay yourself. Resave it using direct stream copy.

What codec packs should I have installed? VLC says you don't need them but perhaps I need a better understanding of using K-Lite or whatevs with Virtual Dub. I recall a CCC codec pack as well. Are there newer ones I'm not aware of?

K-Lite installs ffdshow and it'll take care of decoding most formats. Are you having problems displaying a video with VirtualDub? If you're referring to codecs for encoding that's a different matter.

[loninappleton]

Lots of different things flying around again.

First No Full Stream Processing for Lon. It's too aggravating even when I cleaned off half a disk.

Next Snip first or change size (downward) first?

Then fix my audio in the usual way?

For this message the only thing I am going to do, hopefully is set Virtual to Direct Stream processing
so I never have to worry about wrecking a disk again.

[loninappleton]

An error encountered.

I made the change to direct stream processing.

I saved at default.vcf.

It does not auto load.

I have to select load from the File/load preference menu.

It's an extra step I have to put in my notes and is as easy to miss as setting it manually unless there is
another method.

[jagabo]

direct stream processing.. It's an extra step

Once you understand what it means its use is obvious: It means simply copy compressed frames from the input file to the output file -- without decompressing and recompressing them. If you don't want to reencode you want to Direct Stream Copy.

[loninappleton]

To save time I'm going to proceed with editing.

I have made Part II (of the two parts in this job) with an original part two before any
AGK resizing.

With that I loaded it into Goldwave (drag and drop) which will demux.
I saved a .wav and added volume at 150% from a Goldwave preset.
I used that for the level process.

Ran the Levelator (a free program from The Conversations Network which only takes .wav)

Then I used the new LEV wave with the Video in direct stream process. Because the .wav was used as audio
the Part II is now pretty huge-- from 1.67 to over 2 GB.

That's just so I can watch it. A brief peek showed no out of sync problems at all.

No editing was done,
no resizing done.
Just working with the audio.

Tomorrow I will try the editing keys for the needed snip.

[jagabo]

You know, VirtualDub can change the volume of audio.

[loninappleton]

I actually just saw that today.

Virtual dub is one of those programs I've shied away from for years.

I just take a nibble here and a nibble there even now.

[hello_hello]

An error encountered.

I made the change to direct stream processing.

I saved at default.vcf.

It does not auto load.

I have to select load from the File/load preference menu.

It's an extra step I have to put in my notes and is as easy to miss as setting it manually unless there is
another method.

Try looking in Options/Preferences under Startup to see if the directory that's set for configuration files is correct.

You could always use VirtualDubMod. It'll still edit and mux just as well and it has an setting in it's options for specifying the default video processing mode. The VirtualDub default.vcf file should work though....

[loninappleton]

An error encountered.

I made the change to direct stream processing.

I saved at default.vcf.

It does not auto load.

I have to select load from the File/load preference menu.

It's an extra step I have to put in my notes and is as easy to miss as setting it manually unless there is
another method.

Try looking in Options/Preferences under Startup to see if the directory that's set for configuration files is correct.

You could always use VirtualDubMod. It'll still edit and mux just as well and it has an setting in it's options for specifying the default video processing mode. The VirtualDub default.vcf file should work though....

I am using VirtualdubMod 1.5.10 whatevs beta installed from Videohelp software.
This, by the way, shows streams list but Virtual 1.7 the newer one does not. It's all confusing.

I put the default.vcf in the root directory for Virtual Dub Mod 1.5.10... beta.
It does not change the full stream processing.
In Preferences there is no "Startup" anything and I don't know how to move the pcf there if there was.

Maybe a screen shot would help. I'm not being thick (as is usually imagined.) But I don't want to be tested either.

Why is the mode "full processing" the default in the first place where a new user can make such
an egregious mistake and changing it takes all these steps?

[hello_hello]

I am using VirtualdubMod 1.5.10 whatevs beta installed from Videohelp software.
This, by the way, shows streams list but Virtual 1.7 the newer one does not. It's all confusing.

The latest VirtualDub is 1.10.5, not 1.7, not to be confused with VirtualDubMod 1.5.10.2

There were a few modified versions of VirtualDub years ago, each adding different features the original program didn't support, and VirtualDubMod became a version that combined those additional features into a single program. It's no longer developed but it still supports some things VirtualDub doesn't, such as AC3 audio (although there's now a plugin for that) and multiple audio streams. That's one reason it has the Streams menu, because there can be more than one audio stream, and it's probably also why AutoGK used it. Plus it'll add chapters and comments. I don't think VirtualDub can.

I put the default.vcf in the root directory for Virtual Dub Mod 1.5.10... beta.
It does not change the full stream processing.
In Preferences there is no "Startup" anything and I don't know how to move the pcf there if there was.

If you'd mentioned the "mod" thing previously I wouldn't have suggested using a default.vcf file because I don't think VirtualDubMod automatically loads them, but you only mentioned VirtualDub, so I assumed that's what you were using.

Maybe a screen shot would help. I'm not being thick (as is usually imagined.) But I don't want to be tested either.

Just pointing out I have mentioned it.

You could always use VirtualDubMod. It'll still edit and mux just as well and it has a setting in it's options for specifying the default video processing mode.....

VirtualDubMod:

Why is the mode "full processing" the default in the first place where a new user can make such
an egregious mistake and changing it takes all these steps?

VirtualDub is designed for video capture and processing, so I guess being able to use it as a muxer and lossless editor is kind of an added bonus.

[jagabo]

Why is the mode "full processing" the default

Because remux-only editing is a very small part of what the program can do. Just because it's what you want to do doesn't mean it's what everyone else wants to do.

[loninappleton]

I was frustrated today but did get some results.

Other times I have asked is there a printed key for the navigation buttons? For instance-- a simple graphic that tells what the buttons do. At least on my copy, hovering does not work at all. Plus seeing the functions at a glance would be helpful.

As mentioned I have arthritic problems with my hands. But I was able to do a couple of snips.

[loninappleton]

Also thanks for the screen shot. I'll see what I can do with it. You have to admit this kind of thing is buried pretty deep.

[hello_hello]

The tool tip should work if you're a bit patient. Something like two or three seconds without mouse movement. It's not instant, I assume so it's not constantly popping up in the way.

I can capture the tool tip, or the cursor, but apparently both together is expecting too much.



From the far left:
Stop, play input, play output, back to beginning, back one frame, forward one frame, forward to end,

Then the beginning with the buttons with the yellow keys on them (they do look like keys if you use your imagination):
Back to previous keyframe, forward to next keyframe, scan back to last scene change, scan forward to next scene change

And the last two:
set beginning point, set end point.

Lots of shortcut keys, but unfortunately I don't think you can change them.

[loninappleton]

I get overwrought and patience is a problem. Apologies to those who are helping here.
Also apologies for not being clear about the program in use. I have 1.7 and the 1.5.0 beta.

Maybe it's my imagination but I swear I saw a graphic that I didn't save (years ago) of the
button functions such as you have above but all of them. Afterdawn or someplace.

I will print the description you have given and that will be something.

Also noticed that this Vdub 1.5.0 beta I am using failed to show the image I am working with or couldn't keep up. In other words, I should be able to Arrow Key right and see the image progress but in one of the modes all I see is a blank screen. This was also frustrating. But I made timing notes and worked on the edit that way.

It's still a jumble and may need some redoing. The content has an introduction which I put in a separate file. Then part one and part two of a live drama. I took what I could from various copies when the program "was working" and I was getting a bit of progress. I went through a lot of time today where I was having difficulties. Bad 'saves' and the like.

[loninappleton]

Back on this job I am trying to get everything just right.

I have my snipped/edited file as the original subject was about. And I'm catching up on installing Huffuv etc.

My snip messed up something. This is an AVI and trying to resize the edited content in my 'part two'
gives an unrecognized file type error by Auto Gordian Knot. I goes through it's analysis and stops.

For this reason ( which may be backwards) I have worked on a new copy of what was the original screen cap
and made my audio adjustments to that. Will this method of working on the original help to have the file recognized to make the size smaller? What alternative tools are available?

In the meantime I'm going to re-read the thread for any clues. But this one has me stumped. I also noticed that I get the VBR/CBR error prompt where it asked about 'headers.' My old notes say to just say "no" to that request to change headers.

[hello_hello]

In the meantime I'm going to re-read the thread for any clues. But this one has me stumped. I also noticed that I get the VBR/CBR error prompt where it asked about 'headers.' My old notes say to just say "no" to that request to change headers.

At one stage variable bitrate MP3 audio in AVIs was considered by some to be evil. A hack (although I'm not 100% sure that's true). Therefore VirtualDubMod offers to re-write the VBR MP3 header as constant bitrate (if it detects VBR MP3). If the MP3 is actually CBR with a VBR header, which is possible, but unlikely, selecting "yes" shouldn't do any harm. If the MP3 is actually VBR though, selecting "yes" will likely effect the audio/video sync quite badly. Therefore, you should select "no".

VirtualDub also has a similar warning, but I think it was eventually realised the sky isn't falling and VD has an option to disable it in it's preferences.

AutoGK can re-encode audio as VBR MP3. I've never had an AVI not play using any sort of player because the audio was VBR. If it was a "hack" it's a universally supported one, so if the audio is already VBR MP3, just leave it as it is (select "no").

[loninappleton]

The screen shot given above to change to direct stream worked.

It is a direct program change rather than something that can be added in to the program directory.

This will save many keystrokes and errors.