Looking for Noise Reduction Suggestion/Settings

[jaysodyssey]

Hello everyone

SO We have this camera used for a LOW LOW (did I say low yet) budget documentary, it gives off inherent noise at any ISO, we think its just a defect with the camera model. we like the camera and its functions so we are happy to just produce every episode then run a NOISE reduction over each episode before final production

Our NLE does not really provide for NR persay as it focuses on speed of editing

I have heard all sorts of things about AVISynth and other projects, I figured I would post a couple sample clips from the camera to see what you all thought would be the best NR, as you will see the Noise is not to bad, it just looks a bit snowy

thanks in advance

[jagabo]

Is that your source or is it re-encoded? If the latter you should upload a sample of the source that hasn't been reencoded. If the former CCD noise is the least of your problems.

[jaysodyssey]

Well when you mean encoded , the source files are all TRANSCODED before they are entered into the NLE, it's the NLE that creates the intermediary files that we work with

I can find a clip straight out of the camera

What other "problems" are you alluding too?

[smrpix]

"We'll fix it in post" is an old industry joke, not a way to go about making video. Please let us know what camera you're using.

[jagabo]

Well when you mean encoded , the source files are all TRANSCODED before they are entered into the NLE

To a lossless or near lossless codec for editing? If you're using h.264: each transcode with lossy codecs loses more detail and bakes in noise and artifacts -- making them harder to remove.

What other "problems" are you alluding too?

The biggest problem is the low h.264 bitrate in the MP4 file you supplied. That has resulted in a loss of detail and rough edges. There are also block artifacts and posterization.

[jaysodyssey]

I am aware of the old joke, source camera is s Nikon D3200 DSLR

SO FAR I am being told what not to do, if this is the only camera they have (and it is) then all we can do is fix it in POST, ill get you the transcode settings and source footage later this morning

[smrpix]

You can manually adjust that camera. Keep the ISO low and shutter speed slow. Don't let a little bit of grainy noise in low-light situations bother you too much, it's kind of expected.

Right now your issues are overexposed highlights and distracting color balance. Again -- shutter speed, white balance, ISO can all be manually controlled in that camera. Work on those things first.

[newpball]

I can find a clip straight out of the camera

I can't believe that you managed to lose the original camera sources!

Budget is really no excuse here.

[jagabo]

shutter speed, white balance, ISO can all be manually controlled in that camera. Work on those things first.

Of course, he may not be able to shoot the video again. If that's the case filtering the original source clips and saving them with a lossless or near lossless codec for further editing is probably the best approach. Exactly what the filtering entails (in AviSynth or by any other method) will depend on the properties of those sources. As I understand it, most Nikon DSLRs shoot full range rec.601 YUV. It may be possible to recover a little of the blown out highlights and crushed darks.

[jaysodyssey]

I can find a clip straight out of the camera

I can't believe that you managed to lose the original camera sources!

Budget is really no excuse here.

Didnt lose the source clips, i went to bed to get some sleep, I will be posting below with the clip!

I NEVER lose the source footage

[jaysodyssey]

Ok lets address some things

First off thanks for the help so far I mean it, lots of forums sit and stare at posts, with that said lets go over some stuff

# 1. your right a little noise is not the end of the world
#2. Blown out highlights, if your referring to the guy walking up the stairs the actor and camera man got to close with the video lights, the footage I have been sharing with you all is from a semi pro, small crew adult film for a webcam model, I cannot say anymore, only that the budget allowed for pizza and they were using the camera we will be using on the documentary so things will not be perfect in the clips, I wanted everyone to focus on the noise more then anything

#3. Keep the shutter speed slow and ISO low, ( I think I stated originally that no matter what shutter/ISO on that camera ran it produced that artifact in the SOURCE footage, I tried to run the shutter all the way up to 1 second, most of the footage was shot on ISO 100 with a shutter of 1\4000.)

#4. The distracting white balance, again that footage was used for a low budget adult film, all the video lighting had a 3300k warming filter over it to bring out the models skin tones and not seem so harsh.

#5. i am not bothered by the grainy noise, I just wonder if i could remove it

I have attached a FULL source clip shot out of the camera, to my knowledge this clip was shot with the following

Nikon D3200 camera
18-55mm Nikorr lens (24mm f2.8)
ISO 100, shutter 1\4000
Sound is from a external Lapel on models shoulder, run into an off camera preamp then back through the cameras external port, 2 channel audio, 160kb AAC, Video was set at 1080P 29.97 fps, resulting file is contained in a MOV, I think compression is H264

Also for those who were curious all source clips were transcoded into the NLE with the following

SD Media

File Type: AVI Container
Compression: DVCPRO 50

HD Media

File Type: AVI
Compression: Matrox Mpeg422P @HL 50 mbit

Again the file in this post is source straight from camera


thanks again!

[jaysodyssey]

To a lossless or near lossless codec for editing? If you're using h.264: each transcode with lossy codecs loses more detail and bakes in noise and artifacts -- making them harder to remove.

To my knowledge all the transcoding was using a Pro level codec, not h.264

See post above!

The intermediary transcoded files were HUGE!

[newpball]

What kind of light and white balance did you use while recording?

[jaysodyssey]

What kind of light and white balance did you use while recording?

As stated above the cameras balance was set to auto, the white balance was controlled by 3300k external filters placed over the lights, the lighting was provided by two off camera softgels , a fill box for shadow control, and an on camera video light mounted on the hot shoe, or during scenes with movement mounted to the bracket on a steadicam rig

[newpball]

...most of the footage was shot on ISO 100 with a shutter of 1\4000.

Eek!

Why would you do something like that? If you don't know what you are doing use the 'double the framerate' rule of thumb.

Please don't throw straight light into someone's face (1/4000 and ISO 100 should give you a clue!) unless you perhaps want to make some kind of a Twilight Zone documentary.

Finally, never ever use auto white balance!

It is easy to while balance and if budget or eye sight is an issue get a bloody A4 piece of paper and while balance on that!

Sorry, I do not want to be too negative but your lighting is beyond awful.

[jaysodyssey]

...most of the footage was shot on ISO 100 with a shutter of 1\4000.

Eek!

Why would you do something like that? If you don't know what you are doing use the 'double the framerate' rule of thumb.

Please don't throw straight light into someone's face (1/4000 and ISO 100 should give you a clue!) unless you perhaps want to make some kind of a Twilight Zone documentary.

Finally, never ever use auto white balance!

It is easy to while balance and if budget or eye sight is an issue get a bloody A4 piece of paper and while balance on that!

Sorry, I do not want to be too negative but your lighting is beyond awful.

No its ok it was for a low budget film, they did not care about the lighting, I will admit I am no lighting genius, but I was not in charge of it anyway. I am also not a PROFESSIONAL video guy, I used to shoot pro photo (the other side of the coin here) but video still escapes me, care to enlighten a video dummy on what happened with the shutter ISO, Did I create the noise all by myself?

Thanks for being so blunt I DO appreciate it!

[newpball]

No its ok it was for a low budget film, they did not care about the lighting...

Sorry but that is not an excuse! You should care because it is your work!

Thanks for being so blunt I DO appreciate it!

Thanks for that!

Some 'socialites' would have told you "good job" whatever you produced but that honestly is not going to help you improve!

...care to enlighten a video dummy on what happened with the shutter ISO, Did I create the noise all by myself?

ISO 100 on the Nikon (arguably 160 on the Canon) will already give you the lowest noise. And again, noise is really not the main issue on your video.

With respect to lighting coming from a photography background the principles are the same. Only in video it is a bit more complex because the camera can be in motion in scenes, natural lighting changes in time and you got to think about continuity when you take multiple shots. But the basics are the same.

[jaysodyssey]

Ok I KNOW the lighting sucked, I get that, ok, but I WAS NOT the lighting guy, I only had one of those mounted to my rig, and I did not adjust it, it was a separate department (the guy in the t shirt and sunglasses lol)

I was hoping to be edumacated on the "framerate shutter rule, I am ignorant to that stuff, A simple link to a tutorial would be awesome , I can absorb that stuff no problem

As for the lighting Ill slap the guy IF I ever see him again!

Since I will be reusing this camera on a worldwide documentary I figure its best to figure this stuff out now!

[jaysodyssey]

Lets remember the focus of this THREAD was NEVER about the quality of the production, that was a shit show from the start, it was about removing noise, which still has not even been answered yet!

[newpball]

I was hoping to be edumacated on the "framerate shutter rule, I am ignorant to that stuff, A simple link to a tutorial would be awesome , I can absorb that stuff no problem

It is actually very simple. If you record 24p use a shutter speed of 1/50. If you record 30p use 1/60, if you record 60p use 1/125 etc.

Now those are rules of thumb and starting points. In film terms this doubling approach it is called 180 degree shutter.

Reduce the speed wrt the framerate and the video will become more 'dreamy', increase it and it becomes more 'fragmented'.

Here is a sample vid that show what I am talking about:


However 1/4000 is totally unnecessary.
Actually are you sure you recorded ISO 100 at 1/4000 with that lens in that environment?
That number indicate you have an awfully sensitive camera

By the way, I think there is no reason to make excuses, we are here to help not to condemn!

Since I will be reusing this camera on a worldwide documentary I figure its best to figure this stuff out now!

I can guarantee that after the 'shocker barrage' you just got you will never forget lighting again!
And that's a good thing!

[jaysodyssey]

However 1/4000 is totally unnecessary.
Actually are you sure you recorded ISO 100 at 1/4000 with that lens in that environment?

Pretty pretty circles lol, well NO I cannot be 100% sure, that is what the camera readout gave me though, I am still trying to find that info in the file, I cannot locate it like I do in a photo to save my life

Oh btw FYI My documentary will be shot entirely at 720P 60 Fps, so if you have a good shutter speed for that recommended I am all ears

I will attempt to check the source file for the info you requested once again!

[newpball]

Oh btw FYI My documentary will be shot entirely at 720P 60 Fps, so if you have a good shutter speed for that recommended I am all ears

Well basically you will be grasping for light because your lens is extremely basic. For documentaries I actually recommend 24p. Not only do I like the film look you get more light in the camera because you can get away with a slower shutter speed.

But if you insist on 60fps your shutter speed should be at least 1/125. And while I do not have your Nikon with that lens and that shutter speed your indoor shooting is going to be an issue if you want to use low ISO.

Pretty pretty circles lol, well NO I cannot be 100% sure, that is what the camera readout gave me though, I am still trying to find that info in the file, I cannot locate it like I do in a photo to save my life

Exiftool might give you that info provided Nikon records it.

http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/

[jaysodyssey]

Well basically you will be grasping for light because your lens is extremely basic. For documentaries I actually recommend 24p. Not only do I like the film look you get more light in the camera because you can get away with a slower shutter speed.

But if you insist on 60fps your shutter speed should be at least 1/125. And while I do not have your Nikon with that lens and that shutter speed your indoor shooting is going to be an issue if you want to use low ISO.


Exiftool might give you that info provided Nikon records it.
]
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SO you think I should stick with 1080p at 24 fps

I did not see it in the file SHOOT!

[newpball]

SO you think I should stick with 1080p at 24 fps

It is really a personal choice, but as I wrote before 24p does have an advantage exposure wise.

I record only 24p except when I record sports (and even then I sometimes use 24p) or want to use slow motion.

Slow motion from 60p to 24p is great!

I did not see it in the file SHOOT!

Nope, looks like your Nikon does not record it.

Nikon often uses Nikon NCTG 0x0013 for this.

[jaysodyssey]

so getting back to the beginning of this thread, any Noise reduction settings recommendations for footage from this camera!

[jaysodyssey]

Nikon often uses Nikon NCTG 0x0013 for this.

What????

[newpball]

Nikon often uses Nikon NCTG 0x0013 for this.

What????

It's the hex code for their custom tags.
Look in the txt you uploaded, there are several NCTG tags but the 0x0013 is missing.

[jaysodyssey]

So NewpBall, would you just leave the noise in the video?

[newpball]

So NewpBall, would you just leave the noise in the video?

Well first I would never use the video to begin with but if it had to be used I would probably leave it alone noise wise and solely focus on color (but it is probably too bad to correct it in a meaningful way). It is not that noisy to begin with and second noise suppression is no panacea, often it just cuts effective resolution.

Of course some of those folks who like overly sharpened cartoonized videos will love noise suppression.

To each his own!

Edited to add:

Seems to me the noise from the outside shot is high ISO noise and it is indeed pretty bad.

Doing some white balancing makes the video a bit better but it is basically too far off already:

NRTEST(1).mp4

[jaysodyssey]

It is not that noisy to begin with and second noise suppression is no panacea, often it cuts resolution.

Of course some of those folks who like overly sharpened cartoonized videos will love noise suppression.

To each his own.

I was just asking because I will use the same camera and lens to shoot the documentary, which will have lots of stationary interviews, also some B roll of surrounding location shoots, Not to mention we will be using a "go pro ish" camera for the action sequences!

Honestly I do not mind a little "noise " in it, but I was curious, its obvious the noise will not be going away!