Muxman - 1 file is 704x576, the rest are 720x576

[efc1978]

Hello,
I have a bunch of .VOB's from 2 different DVD's which I have used PGCDemux to separate the audio and video,
I now want to combine the video m2v's together with new audio using Muxman, however just 1 .m2v I have is 704x576 PAL 4:3, and the other 20 or so are all 720x576 PAL 4:3.
So the single .m2v of 704x576 wont mux together with the rest, I though maybe Muxman might fix this as there is a "Force" box which can be ticked, but I couldn't get that to work (it's purpose might not even be for what I was trying to make it do!?).
As the difference between 704x576 and 720x576 is 8 pixels of black bars on each side of the picture I am wondering can this conversion be made losslessly by just adding black bars?
Could somebody please tell me how to do this?, preferably losslessly, but if that's not possible please help me make the conversion maintaining as much video quality as possible.
I can work with either the .VOB or .m2v.
Thanks in advance for any help.

[Baldrick]

You can't mix different sizes in same track. You could try another free authoring software where you can make several tracks for each video like dvdstyler. Then make them play after each other(might be some short break).

Nope, you can't add black bars without reconverting.

[efc1978]

You can't mix different sizes in same track. You could try another free authoring software where you can make several tracks for each video like dvdstyler. Then make them play after each other(might be some short break).

Nope, you can't add black bars without reconverting.

Hi,
Yeah I know you can't mix different sizes, that's why I'm asking how to change it!, I want to mux them all together as the one video with new audio.
If I can't do this losslessly could somebody please recommend a free programme and tell me the correct settings for highest possible quality? (I have no idea of quality settings etc. once it comes to moving away from lossless).
Any help appreciated.
Thanks

[pandy]

Try to concatenate files with ffmpeg - it may work - not sure why this strange limitations about sizes - decent MPEG decoder shall be able to correctly parse MPEG syntax and glitch free switch on GOP boundaries.

[efc1978]

Try to concatenate files with ffmpeg - it may work - not sure why this strange limitations about sizes - decent MPEG decoder shall be able to correctly parse MPEG syntax and glitch free switch on GOP boundaries.

Hi,
I'm new to video editing, is this a lossless process you're referring to?
What do I actually do to my file with ffmpeg?, I don't think I know which function to use, what will it be called?
Thanks

[Skiller]

All you really need is an authoring program that let's you author more than just one Titleset (VTS), in other words almost any other. Muxman (free) cannot do this, it always tries to multiplex everything into the same Titleset but you cannot mix different source attributes in the same Titleset (well, you can probably trick Muxman by patching MPEG headers to 720x576, but it might cause trouble during playback).

Try GUI for DVDauthor (you don't have to create a menu).


Certainly you should not re-encode.

[efc1978]

All you really need is an authoring program that let's you author more than just one Titleset (VTS), in other words almost any other. Muxman (free) cannot do this, it always tries to multiplex everything into the same Titleset but you cannot mix different source attributes in the same Titleset (well, you can probably trick Muxman by patching MPEG headers to 720x576, but it might cause trouble during playback).

Try GUI for DVDauthor (you don't have to create a menu).


Certainly you should not re-encode.

Hi,
How do I try and trick Muxman by patching MPEG headers to 720x576?
Thanks

[poisondeathray]

eg. dvd patcher, restream

[efc1978]

eg. dvd patcher, restream

Hello,
I have attached a screenshot of Restream when I load in my original 704X576 .m2v file.
Could you please tell me what settings I select/deselect, tick/untick, and what to fill in the boxes?
This is lossless correct?
The other 20 m2v's I'm trying to get Muxman to add with this file are 720X576 PAL 25fps 4:3.
Thanks for any help.

[poisondeathray]

Where it says Resolution: 704x576 , change it to 720x576

Yes it's lossless

Open up one of the other 720x576 videos in restream and/or gspot and have a look to see if anything is different too

But as Skiller said earlier, it might cause problems in some programs and players

[usually_quiet]

You would simply change the resolution to 720x576. All you are doing is changing the resolution information in the headers. You are not changing the video itself.

Maybe you will be lucky, but I can tell you from personal experience that not all video players (particularly video player software) will play a video correctly when the resolution in the headers doesn't match the real resolution,

[efc1978]

Thanks guys.
Restream leaves the new video with a distracting green bar the whole way down the right side.
DVDPatcher doesn't have the green bar.
However in Muxman both would not combine with my new PCM WAV audio, it was giving an error because of possible too high bitrate, so I converted the PCM WAV to 384kbps MP2 and that successfully muxed/combined audio and video.
It seems to play fine on my PC... (though the very first fraction of a second I do see a green bar at far right, but it's just a fraction of a second).
Not too happy about having to make PCM WAV lossy MP2 but better than lossy video I guess....
Oh and it was surprising DVDPatcher overwrites the original file on export, rather than export the new file separately!

[efc1978]

Hello,
I have attached a screenshot of DVDPatcher when I load in the 704 x 576 m2v, the settings in the screenshot are all left untouched as they were when I downloaded the programme, when I export the only thing I change is in the "Horizontal Size" box I change Pixels to 720, is that the only thing I need to change, to keep lossless?

Thanks

[manono]

You should probably patch the entire file. But, your max bitrate as shown in your earlier picture is still too high so you'll most likely have to use the MP2 audio. Or, better, make an AC3 file.

[efc1978]

You should probably patch the entire file. But, your max bitrate as shown in your earlier picture is still too high so you'll most likely have to use the MP2 audio. Or, better, make an AC3 file.

I have no idea what difference it makes but if you think it's best to patch the whole file I will, better to be safe than sorry, thank you.
Is it OK to leave the bitrate box set at 3.5MBit DVD and not 8.0MBit DVD?, I don't understand how this can be lossless as it's altering bitrate but I'm sure I'm getting the correct advice here.
The original file bitrate says 9,548,800 bits per sec, so isn't the selection box which is selected as 3.5MBit be 3,500,000 bits per sec, which is far less than the original, is that making it lossless?
Thanks

[manono]

I don't understand how this can be lossless as it's altering bitrate...

It doesn't reencode but only changes a figure in the header. It makes no difference in anything. You can leave it alone or fill in anything you like. Many commercial DVDs will say 9800 even though that's not the real max bitrate.

[efc1978]

I don't understand how this can be lossless as it's altering bitrate...

It doesn't reencode but only changes a figure in the header. It makes no difference in anything. You can leave it alone or fill in anything you like. Many commercial DVDs will say 9800 even though that's not the real max bitrate.

Oh yes I see, all of those settings are part of the 'patch'.
Well the output that Muxman now accepts with the other files seems to play fine on my PC, so hopefully this means once I've burned it all to DVD my Blu-ray player won't have any problem with playing that part of the DVD as some have suggested...

[efc1978]

Is there another programme that would mux the m2v and PCM WAV audio without giving a high bitrate error?, I'm pretty sure the error is based on a standard for DVD therefore it will error no matter which programme I use to mux the video and audio?
Thanks

[pandy]

Try to concatenate files with ffmpeg - it may work - not sure why this strange limitations about sizes - decent MPEG decoder shall be able to correctly parse MPEG syntax and glitch free switch on GOP boundaries.

Hi,
I'm new to video editing, is this a lossless process you're referring to?
What do I actually do to my file with ffmpeg?, I don't think I know which function to use, what will it be called?
Thanks

https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Concatenate

https://www.ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg-formats.html#concat-1

Yes, it is purely lossless operation.
You need to create batch file similar to:

ffmpeg -f concat -i mylist_xx.txt -c copy -f mpeg -y xx.mpg

Where you need to prepare second text file named for example mylist_xx.txt with all files you willing to combine are listed inside e.g.

file 'C:\blahblahblah\file1.mpg'
file 'C:\blahblahblah\file2.mpg'
file 'C:\blahblahblah\file3.mpg'
file 'C:\blahblahblah\file4.mpg'
file 'C:\blahblahblah\file5.mpg'

[manono]

Is there another programme that would mux the m2v and PCM WAV audio without giving a high bitrate error?, I'm pretty sure the error is based on a standard for DVD therefore it will error no matter which programme I use to mux the video and audio?
Thanks

IFOEdit will probably do the job, if there aren't too many buffer underflows. It's way more 'forgiving' than is Muxman It might give a warning but should complete the mux. However, I don't believe you can join multiple video and audio files the way you can with Muxman, which is really a nice feature I use often. So, if just muxing the one is enough, you might try IFOEdit (up at the top - DVD Author ->Author New DVD). Otherwise maybe try pandy's suggestion.

[Skiller]

so hopefully this means once I've burned it all to DVD my Blu-ray player won't have any problem with playing that part of the DVD as some have suggested...

I think you are wasting your time. Why not just author a DVD with two Titlesets where all the 720x576 stuff is in VTS_01 and the 704x576 stuff is in VTS_02? It'll play anywhere without issues...

[efc1978]

so hopefully this means once I've burned it all to DVD my Blu-ray player won't have any problem with playing that part of the DVD as some have suggested...

I think you are wasting your time. Why not just author a DVD with two Titlesets where all the 720x576 stuff is in VTS_01 and the 704x576 stuff is in VTS_02? It'll play anywhere without issues...

Well the 704 file patched to 720 with DVDPatcher and also tried Restream muxed with the main 720 files and looked fine playing on my computer, but once burned to DVD my Blu-ray player made it unwatchable, the whole screen looked like a bazillion pixels!

I've looked at GUI for DVD Author but can't even get anything to load into it?!

I don't know how to make separate tilesets without having pauses in between, the video joins I make are during music which needs to run seamless (as it does when joining the m2v's with Muxman), I don't know how to author DVD as I usually only work with audio projects, so I have no idea how to make the 704 files separate tilesets without pausing in between where they are joined with the 720 files... (well they're simple to losslessly combine as a DVD in DVD Shrink, but there's a pause at the joins, which I can't have during the music).

[manono]

Then reencode the 704 one to 720 with black bars. No big deal.

[efc1978]

Then reencode the 704 one to 720 with black bars. No big deal.

How do I reencode losslessly?

I'm currently trying to work out how to use FFMPEG which Pandy sugegsted, but having a little trouble!

[efc1978]

Is there a way I could demux all the original DVD .VOB's (both 720x576 and 704x576) and then combine as lossless without any patches or conversions by making .mkv instead of DVD?
Would the 704 and 720 files be able to join, or at least play seamlessly if I made .mkv instead of DVD (m2v for DVD).

[usually_quiet]

Is there a way I could demux all the original DVD .VOB's (both 720x576 and 704x576) and then combine as lossless without any patches or conversions by making .mkv instead of DVD?
Would the 704 and 720 files be able to join, or at least play seamlessly if I made .mkv instead of DVD (m2v for DVD).

There is no guarantee that ANY file is going to play correctly on a hardware or software player if part of it has a different resolution than the rest. This idea came from pandy didn't it? pandy is on my ignore list, so I have to ask. He proposed something like this before, a few years back in another thread, which is how I know it does not work reliably.

Forget about "lossless" encoding. In this situation you need to re-encode and accept a slight quality loss, if you want something that plays reliably in any suitable player and does not have any noticeable audio hesitation.

[efc1978]

Is there a way I could demux all the original DVD .VOB's (both 720x576 and 704x576) and then combine as lossless without any patches or conversions by making .mkv instead of DVD?
Would the 704 and 720 files be able to join, or at least play seamlessly if I made .mkv instead of DVD (m2v for DVD).

There is no guarantee that ANY file is going to play on a hardware or software player if part of it has a different resolution than the rest.

Forget about "lossless" encoding. In this situation you need to re-encode and accept a slight quality loss, if you want something that plays reliably in any suitable player and does not have any noticeable audio hesitation.

This came from pandy didn't it? pandy is on my ignore list, so I have to ask. He proposed something like this before, a few years back in another thread, which is how I know it does not work reliably.

No Pandy didn't suggest trying to mix both 704 and 720 as .mkv instead of a DVD format, that was my own idea / question if it would work...
Pandy did suggest concatenating (joining?) the 704 and 720 files in FFMPEG, it's about the only suggestion (besides re-encoding) I haven't tried yet, FFMPEG is not simple to figure out (I usually only work with audio so this is one of my first few real video projects). I'm holding on to hope I can figure it out as it's the last suggestion for a lossless edit I've heard that I haven't yet tried), but it's a little over my head at the moment...

I know re-encoding would be reasonably simple, but I know so little about 'video' editing I wouldn't know what programme to use, and more importantly what settings to use for highest possible quality preservation.
I really need something that would output .VOB, or .m2v, as I need to demux and mux with Muxman to add my new audio.
Thanks

[usually_quiet]

Is there a way I could demux all the original DVD .VOB's (both 720x576 and 704x576) and then combine as lossless without any patches or conversions by making .mkv instead of DVD?
Would the 704 and 720 files be able to join, or at least play seamlessly if I made .mkv instead of DVD (m2v for DVD).

There is no guarantee that ANY file is going to play on a hardware or software player if part of it has a different resolution than the rest.

Forget about "lossless" encoding. In this situation you need to re-encode and accept a slight quality loss, if you want something that plays reliably in any suitable player and does not have any noticeable audio hesitation.

This came from pandy didn't it? pandy is on my ignore list, so I have to ask. He proposed something like this before, a few years back in another thread, which is how I know it does not work reliably.

No Pandy didn't suggest trying to mix both 704 and 720 as .mkv instead of a DVD format, that was my own idea / question if it would work...
Pandy did suggest concatenating (joining?) the 704 and 720 files in FFMPEG, it's about the only suggestion (besides re-encoding) I haven't tried yet, FFMPEG is not simple to figure out (I usually only work with audio so this is one of my first few real video projects). I'm holding on to hope I can figure it out as it's the last suggestion for a lossless edit I've heard that I haven't yet tried), but it's a little over my head at the moment...

I know re-encoding would be reasonably simple, but I know so little about 'video' editing I wouldn't know what programme to use, and more importantly what settings to use for highest possible quality preservation.
I really need something that would output .VOB, or .m2v, as I need to demux and mux with Muxman to add my new audio.
Thanks

If you post MediaInfo reports (View->Text) from one of the 720x576 VOBs and the 704x576 VOB, someone should be able to tell you how to re-encode the problem file. It is late here, so chances are that person won't be me.

[efc1978]

Is there a way I could demux all the original DVD .VOB's (both 720x576 and 704x576) and then combine as lossless without any patches or conversions by making .mkv instead of DVD?
Would the 704 and 720 files be able to join, or at least play seamlessly if I made .mkv instead of DVD (m2v for DVD).

There is no guarantee that ANY file is going to play on a hardware or software player if part of it has a different resolution than the rest.

Forget about "lossless" encoding. In this situation you need to re-encode and accept a slight quality loss, if you want something that plays reliably in any suitable player and does not have any noticeable audio hesitation.

This came from pandy didn't it? pandy is on my ignore list, so I have to ask. He proposed something like this before, a few years back in another thread, which is how I know it does not work reliably.

No Pandy didn't suggest trying to mix both 704 and 720 as .mkv instead of a DVD format, that was my own idea / question if it would work...
Pandy did suggest concatenating (joining?) the 704 and 720 files in FFMPEG, it's about the only suggestion (besides re-encoding) I haven't tried yet, FFMPEG is not simple to figure out (I usually only work with audio so this is one of my first few real video projects). I'm holding on to hope I can figure it out as it's the last suggestion for a lossless edit I've heard that I haven't yet tried), but it's a little over my head at the moment...

I know re-encoding would be reasonably simple, but I know so little about 'video' editing I wouldn't know what programme to use, and more importantly what settings to use for highest possible quality preservation.
I really need something that would output .VOB, or .m2v, as I need to demux and mux with Muxman to add my new audio.
Thanks

If you post MediaInfo reports (View->Text) from one of the 720x576 VOBs and the 704x576 VOB, someone should be able to tell you how to re-encode the problem file. It is late here, so chances are that person won't be me.

Hi,
Here's the "video" info from Medianinfo.
There are 2 videos I have which will need re-encoding as they are both 704, the other 20 videos I have are 720.
I will post the Medianinfo for the odd 704 files, plus the 720 files which I want either side (before and after) the odd 704 files.
The order of 1,2,3 is the order I wish to mux them together eg. the odd 704 file is in the middle with the 720 files first and last.
So the first set of 3 screenshots is 720 + 704 + 720, the last set of 3 screenshots is 720 + 704 + 720.

Some info which might be useful, these are the selections/lengths I want to keep for my project, I cut them out of full length DVD's using DVD Shrink in lossless (no compression), so they are individually in their own DVD folders (VIDEO_TS).
Any help would be greatly appreciated, obviously I would prefer to demux them all losslessly to m2v and then mux them all together but it won't work, if re-encoding the middle (odd 704) files to highest quality is the only option I have then I guess I have no other choice... But I would really need all the help I can get to do that, including which free programme to use and recommendations for all the correct settings, and obviously I would need to export as .VOB (which includes .IFO as PGCDemux works with the .IFO), or .m2v.
Thanks
Here's the first set of 3 (with the odd 204 file in the middle of the 2 files I wish to have either side).






And here's the second set of 3 files, once again the middle one is the odd 704 file.
(it's actually only about 24 seconds).

[pandy]

I said it may work (or not) but definitely it is simplest, lossless and if DVD follow H.262 standard legal.
Excerpt from H.262 http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-H.262-201202-I/en :

D.14 Concatenated sequences
Sequence concatenation occurs when an elementary stream contains a sequence ending with a sequence_end_code that is
followed by another sequence starting with a sequence_start_code. Any parameter including but not limited to profile,
level, VBV buffer size, frame rate, horizontal size, vertical size, or bitrate, which is not allowed to change within a single
sequence may change from sequence to sequence.
The behaviour of the decoding process and display process for concatenated sequences is not within the scope of this
Recommendation | International Standard. An application that needs to use concatenated sequences must ensure by
private arrangement that the decoder will be able to decode and play concatenated sequences.
Applications should ensure that decoders will have an acceptable behaviour when parameters change. For example
changes to the
– frame size;
– frame rate;
– field parity of the first displayed field of the new sequence versus the field parity of the final displayed
field of the previous sequence;
– buffer status,
amongst others may cause problems.