Any way to improve vid quality from DVD discs?

[Miramar239]

Hi!
I´ve converted family vhs old videos to dvd discs.Quality is good,on some of them less good. Now as technology improves all the time,is there any chance to improve even more quality of films recorded on discs.I don´t have vhs tapes any more so I can not re-do the transferring process again with maybe any better vhs pro player.I have tried several different softwares such as Cyberlink Power Director,Sony Vegas,Corel studio,AVS editor...but still I think it could be a bit better. So my question is:
-As DVD discs are counted as a originals now-is there any software what can handle it much better way than those I mentioned?(maybe any ripping dvd?)
-Or that´s it!-There is no way to do anything anymore with discs?
Any tips highly appreciated-is it Worth to search for solution or the subject is closed and no space for improvment?
---->I´he read different posts but can´t find similar question to mine<----

[hech54]

A rip or "ripping" is an exact copy of what is on the disc.....there can be no improvement doing that.

[jagabo]

Some things can be improved with advanced filtering, others not. You'd have to post a sample of what you want to fix. And you'll probably have to learn AviSynth.

[Miramar239]

OK,so no point to learn AviSynth if there are things what can´t be fixed.
I can´t put samples `cause there are several issues I had to copy transferring old vhs tapes,so no point.
Just generally wanted to know if there is any use of software what can improve discs quality.
I understand that information what´s lost is lost forever?

[jagabo]

OK,so no point to learn AviSynth if there are things what can´t be fixed.
I can´t put samples `cause there are several issues I had to copy transferring old vhs tapes,so no point.

Just because some things can't be fixed doesn't mean there's no point. Some things can be fixed. Whether it's worth the time and effort depends on what's wrong.

Just generally wanted to know if there is any use of software what can improve discs quality.

Disc quality? Or video quality?

I understand that information what´s lost is lost forever?

If it's completely gone, yes. But if there's a little information left you might be able to restore some of it.

[johnmeyer]

OK,so no point to learn AviSynth if there are things what can´t be fixed.
I can´t put samples `cause there are several issues I had to copy transferring old vhs tapes,so no point.
Just generally wanted to know if there is any use of software what can improve discs quality.
I understand that information what´s lost is lost forever?

That response doesn't seem to make much sense: anyone can post samples on MediaFire or half a dozen other sites. More to the point, there are so many problems that your video might contain, some of which can be fixed, and others which cannot, that it is totally and completely impossible to provide any advice without seeing a sample of the video.

For instance, if you got the levels wrong (bad contrast), that can be fixed. If you need to do color correction (e.g., video taken outdoors, but with the indoor color balance settings), that can be (mostly) fixed. If the video is shaky, that can be fixed. If there is lots of analog video noise, that can be partly fixed, although it will depend on how well you did with the encoding to DVD.

However, if you trying to fix TBC errors, those cannot be fixed without re-transferring the now-lost original tapes. If you have large dropouts, those can't be fixed. Some audio problems can be fixed, others can not.

I can go on, but it is pointless to speculate further since you have, for some reasons, decided not to post any samples.

Whatever you do, NEVER throw out any remaining tapes. You cut yourself off, forever, from the possibility of a better transfer. I am just about to re-transfer my family's Super 8 film that was originally transferred to VHS in 1991, and the difference between those transfers and what I can do now is like the difference between SD and HD video.

[newpball]

Whatever you do, NEVER throw out any remaining tapes. You cut yourself off, forever, from the possibility of a better transfer. I am just about to re-transfer my family's Super 8 film that was originally transferred to VHS in 1991, and the difference between those transfers and what I can do now is like the difference between SD and HD video.

Excellent advice!

Throwing away family treasures is an extremely dumb thing to do!

[Miramar239]

"Throwing away family treasures is an extremely dumb thing to do!"
REALLY?! Did you know that 25 years ago? Did you know that engineering and technics will develop that much? Did you know that internet will exists?So tell me what will happen in next 25 years so I´will prepare myself for that Point in Life.No Point to be rude or sarcastic since nobody knows what future brings! I had over 200 tapes and when we moved that was simply too much to carry-3 big boxes so we had to make decision.So please don´t lecture me now `cause I´m angry with myself for throwing those tapes,no need to remind me that.I have still about 50 left so at least those I can save ,make transferr again.
Just wanted to know if there is any chance to enhance even more some clips.I appreciate any tips and leads but asking generally.There is no problem to upload files and I will do if you ppl Think can help but question-once again-is in general about improvements.General issue is sharpnes and color.
Or maybe I have asked wrong question....Maybe should ask-what a quality difference is between VHS tape and DVD disc,and how to improve it?
And again-tapes were in very bad shape for number of reasons so I´m very happy that I could transfer them to DVD anyway.
Then again difference between analog and digital-there is a limitation of information analog way what maybe can´t be digitalized anyway.

[Miramar239]

Link to sample,no sound(is OK),only video:

http://www.mediafire.com/watch/x9qj1pq12jai8v6/1_xvid.avi

This is already digitalized and copy of dvd disc,original vhs tape was even worse.
What is possible to do?

[davexnet]

Link to sample,no sound(is OK),only video:

http://www.mediafire.com/watch/x9qj1pq12jai8v6/1_xvid.avi

This is already digitalized and copy of dvd disc,original vhs tape was even worse.
What is possible to do?

unable to download, mediafire says it violates their terms of service.

[Miramar239]

Don´t know...just downloaded without login-in,no probs.

[jagabo]

Your link doesn't work for me either. But an xvid avi is not what you should upload. You should use a tool like mpg2cut2 or dgindex to extract a short clip from the DVD VOB file-- without any reencoding. Then upload the mpg or m2v file. This site accepts up to 500 MB -- use the Upload Files button below the edit boxes.

In general, sharpness cannot be improved by much. Colors, brightness, contrast can, unless they are totally blown out.

[Miramar239]

I don´t use above mention programs.I converted short clip into AVI to show what the issue is not to bother about format,btw.its quicker ´cause its only 41MB and MPEG-2 is 530MB.
Loaded on here:
http://nitroflare.com/view/573AEB8F4E0587A/1_xvid.avi

[theewizard]

always ..always keep your source files
even if the tapes were falling apart. keeping the original capture files INTACT would have made this job easier

[johnmeyer]

I have still about 50 left so at least those I can save ,make transferr again.

That was the point of making the statement: if you have any remaining tapes, then don't throw them out, not even after you re-transfer them.

Also, in answer to your other comments: even though none of us could anticipate digital video and the restoration marvels it can provide, what we DID know back before digital video was that any copy of the original was going to be degraded dramatically. 2nd gen VHS is absolutely horrible compared to the original.


Then, by the time burnable DVD came along (around the year 2000) we did have DV video and the ability to digitize VHS without having to go through the VHS-to-VHS transfer. If you did your transfers at that point, then you should have (or could have) known about tools and techniques for getting better quality. But if you did the transfer before, going first to another VHS tape, they you also should have known (because the quality decline was obvious) that the original tape was always going to look better.

BTW, your first link didn't work, and while the second one is going to work (I think), it is -- by far -- the most annoying download site I've ever used. In the future, may I suggest you use Mediafire instead, or simply upload to Dropbox. Both give you plenty of free space.

I'll take a look at the video and give you an idea of what can and cannot be done.

[johnmeyer]

Having just re-read your post while waiting for this absurdly slow site to give me the file, I noted that you said you converted a 500+ MB MPEG-2 file to a 40 MB XVID video file. If you really did a 10x compression on an MPEG-2 file, I probably won't be able to tell you much, because that large compression ratio will introduce a huge number of additional visual problems. The right way to do it is to simply cut 20-30 seconds from the MPEG-2 file and post that. Alternatively, if you don't have a tool which can do a lossless MPEG-2 cut, then take the 20-30 seconds that you think is most representative of the problems you are trying to fix, and encode that using XVID, but with settings that will not reduce the file size from the size that a 20-30 second clip from the original MPEG-2 file would consume.

...

Ah, as I wrote that, the file finally finished ... let's see what you've got ...

... OMG, that is possibly the worst transfer I've ever seen. The levels are totally shot. You can sometimes recover details from underexposed video, but once you have blown out the highlights, there is nothing that can be done because there are zero pixels that the restoration software can "grab onto" and manipulate.

If this is what your original video looks like, there is absolutely nothing that can be done.

For others, here is s snapshot of the video. The aspect ratio is how it looks (I didn't squish it):

[manono]

...cause its only 41MB and MPEG-2 is 530MB.

Then cut a smaller piece. We don't need much to figure out if some things can be improved. 10 seconds is usually enough. I thought you were asking for help, not trying to start arguments.

And I agree with johnmeyer about the download site you've chosen being absolutely horrible. 11 minutes for a 41MB download? And that's after having to jump through hoops to even get the download started?

[Miramar239]

For my defence I can only say that I accidentaly Before our moving got hands and info that it is possible digitalize vhs tapes,so I did as good as I could without any bigger further knowledge. Those clips are most broken and show the biggest issue.Most of them are OK but maybe still could need some improvements.
Thanks guys for all help and valuable tips,will inwestigate some software you recommended.

[manono]

I agree with johnmeyer. Although the aspect ratio screwup can be fixed, because the high whites are all at the same level, about all that can be done is to lower them to a light grey so it's less painful to watch. The detail is forever gone.

Yadif(Mode=1)#Just to get it progressive for a picture
Crop(100,2,-100,-8)
LanczosResize(640,480)
Tweak(Sat=0,Bright=-10,Cont=0.85,Coring=False)

[johnmeyer]

I'm sorry we couldn't help more. And don't feel bad: most of my early attempts at editing and restoring video seem pretty crude to me when I come across some of the stuff I did before I knew any better. It's the same for all of us.

[edit]Nice job making it look a little better, Manono.

[newpball]

I had over 200 tapes and when we moved that was simply too much to carry-3 big boxes so we had to make decision.

Carry three (3) big boxes?

Ah, now we all understand!
And they must have been very heavy!
And we have not even mentioned all the space it would have taken to store them!
And all that for family videos!

Nope, solid decision to throw away those old family videos.......

[theewizard]

the first digitizing session
PC ? or vhs/DVD combo recorder
if you did PC, there is a chance at improvement IF you kept the digitized PC files

[Miramar239]

@newpball Why are you so arrogant and laughing at somebody´s mistake? Did you even read my previous post to understand or is it beyond your brain capacity?
I DID AS GOOD AS I COULD,based on informations I had then and was convinced that dititalizing vhs vids into dvd recorder will make them good quality digital-I simply didn´t know better and I´m not professional in that area.Which word don´t you understand?
Ppl here trying to help and I appreciate every tip of it but you just looking for arguing or whatever and not bringing ANY useful information to this post,so why you bother? Don´t you have any better to do in your Life? Please stay away ´cause you looking ridiculous right now with your sarcastics.
As @johnmeyer says we all made mistakes in the beginning.If I knew any better I´d have kept all tapes and waited for better times,better hardware,better software.
But those tapes got broken-most of them-so i simply didn´t see a point to preserve them,just didn´t know better.I was happy that I could transfer them even that way!
Try to understand and stop your comments...or reading is also beyond your capacity?

@theewizard I converted VHS into DVD recorder directly and burned on DVD discs.
@manono What program did you use to create that aspect ratio?

Here one more bad shape file in mpeg-2,how to stabilize color? or whatever I could do with it to improve? It´s only 5MB:

http://nitroflare.com/view/CA937D4DA50DFBB/2.mpg

@manono,@johnmeyer,if you could look and say your opinion?
What program/-s you guys recommend for that kind of job?

[manono]

@manono What program did you use to create that aspect ratio?

I showed the AviSynth script with the crop and resize values earlier. I opened the script in VDub to make the picture.

What program/-s you guys recommend for that kind of job?

I don't do that kind of job. And I will never download another video from that place, no matter how small it is. johnmeyer has already suggested MediaFire.

Ignore newpball. He's like that with everyone.

[Miramar239]

OKI,thanks for your reply. Loaded to MediaFire,hope you can download or open it, ´cause some guys earlier said the link didn´t work....works for me,no probs:

http://www.mediafire.com/watch/sa0517nxd3vik3f/2.mpg

Any suggestions/solving color probs?

[jagabo]

The colors of the bottom field are very messed up. The colors in the top field are clean except for flickering at the top. Here I've separated the two fields and stacked them rather than weaving them:



One way to address this is to throw away the bottom fields and resize the top fields:

SeparateFields()
SelectEven() # keep the even fields
Spline36Resize(width, height*2) # resize back to full height

But that will leave you with less smooth motion and some aliasing artifacts. A better method is to apply the colors of the top field to the bottom field. But the bottom field colors will be displaced when there is motion. Note how the colors don't line up on the baby's feet:



A way around that is to motion interplate colors from the top field, then apply those colors to the bottom field:



Motion interpolation like this doesn't work well when motions get large or complex. But this clip doesn't have a lot of motion.

The colors are over saturated so they need to be toned down. I decreased the saturation and brightness to get them mostly legal without washing them out. I also sharpened the chroma channels and shifted them to better register better with the luma.

Mpeg2Source("2.d2v", CPU2="xxxxxx", Info=3) 

SeparateFields()
evn = SelectEven()
odd = SelectOdd()

chr = evn.DoubleFPS2().SelectOdd() # generate motion interplated colors from the even field
odd = MergeChroma(odd, chr) # and apply them to the odd field

# put the even and odd fields back into interlaced frames
Interleave(evn,odd)
Weave()

ColorYUV(gain_y=-40, off_y=-4, cont_u=-100, cont_v=-100, opt="coring") # tone down saturation, brightness

QTGMC(preset="fast") # smart bob for progressive MKV
MergeChroma(last, aWarpSharp(depth=30)) # sharpen colors
ChromaShift(c=-2, l=-2) # shift colors 2 left, 2 up

You might also stabilize the colors with a temporal filter. But I don't see an easy way to fix the flickering, and lack of, colors at the (mostly) top of the frame. And I haven't addressed other issues like the aspect ratio.

[johnmeyer]

Jagabo,

That is brilliant stuff. Well done.

[edit]
Some things I might do differently (no wrong or right way):

1. I would leave the clip interlaced. This is VHS video, and it is destined for DVD. The chain is interlaced, so why change? Thus, I would not use the QTGMC code.

2. I probably would not use the sharpening, although that is entirely a matter of personal taste.

Thus, I would not use the last three lines of the script, especially for encoding to a DVD.

3. The original DoubleFPS2 function used MBlockFps() to interpolate frames. Would MFlowFPS produce better results?

I don't know the answer to my own question, but it might be worthwhile comparing the results.

[Miramar239]

OK.Thanks again for your effort.Downloaded AviSynth and will try to investigate how that software works.
Your result is simply Amazing.I understand that not Always there will be such result but that improves video quality significantly.
How about programming/scripts? Is it any ready to use somewhere on the net or each one needs to learn it slowly?
Will loook at guides but this scripting is totally new stuff for me.
Once again big thank for all your help guys!

[theewizard]

as i recall
there is a script editor prg for avisynth
with a gui interface
you pick your filters, de-interlace, feild swapping, color changing etc.. from the list
and it writes the script, you can edit/change some of the parameters (numbers)
then you save the script , open avisynth and run the script
but yes, there is learning involved,
learn what happens when different filters (actions) are applied, when and how to use them
but always save the NEW file to a different location and keep the old files (source) intact
and you can practice all you want till you have it right.. with no changes done to the source
i don't use it very often..these guys are beyond my level

[jagabo]

3. The original DoubleFPS2 function used MBlockFps() to interpolate frames. Would MFlowFPS produce better results?

I haven't played with MFlowFPS in quite a while. Back when I did I found MVTools worked better. I haven't bothered to compare again lately.