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  1. Member
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    I have a quite a significant media collection on my Custom Built NAS.. 8TB+ Anime (Both 8bit and 10bit), 2TB+ Movies and 4TB+ TV series on my NAS.. Im planning on migrating them to HEVC cause im running out of Disk space in my storage.. IF HEVC can save me at least 10% or 20%, thats already huge if u have 15TB media.. Would like some people here to help me and answer this questions.. Quality is not a problem cause Most of my content (80 - 90%) are from BD and few hard to find ones are downloaded from the net mostly 1080p.

    1. Is x265 ready to replace x264? Or to be more specific, can x265 save me 10 to 20% space for the same quality or small tangible loss of quality?

    2. Do have I have gather back my BD Disk and encode them back again or should i just reencode the already encoded ones? Its tedious to gather boxes of my BD Collections to encode one by one soo hoping the already Encoded ones would suffice..

    3. Should I encode all my media to x265 10bit? or stay 8bit on a 8bit source?

    4. I checked the x265 changelog and all I see are AVX2 optimizations, should getting a CPU with AVX2 give me substantial speed or should I stay on my i7-3930K (Sandy Bridge-E) CPU?

    Planning on upgrading my NAS from Sandy Brigde-E to any future Intel i7 Extreme CPU (Skylake-E maybe) or AMD Zen CPU's in the future.. Encode times wont be a problem cause my NAS is OPEN 24/7. All of my encodes are x264 CRF=18 Slow Preset. Still waiting for the 10TB Drives come down to at least $200+ price range, till then 6x3TB is still ok for me..
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  2. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    Try an encode to X265. See if the time spent is worth the quality you see at a smaller size. I didn't think so myself.

    I wouldn't re-encode from a X264 file, but you can try that also. I think you will have a major hit in quality.
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    Hi!
    Immediately start to recode through hevc 10bit (visually winnings reach ~ 35-40%).
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  4. Will HEVC 10bit go mainstream ? Outside of computer sphere.
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  5. Member racer-x's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RazorBurn View Post
    I have a quite a significant media collection on my Custom Built NAS.. 8TB+ Anime (Both 8bit and 10bit), 2TB+ Movies and 4TB+ TV series on my NAS.. Im planning on migrating them to HEVC cause im running out of Disk space in my storage.. IF HEVC can save me at least 10% or 20%, thats already huge if u have 15TB media.. Would like some people here to help me and answer this questions.. Quality is not a problem cause Most of my content (80 - 90%) are from BD and few hard to find ones are downloaded from the net mostly 1080p.

    1. Is x265 ready to replace x264? Or to be more specific, can x265 save me 10 to 20% space for the same quality or small tangible loss of quality?

    2. Do have I have gather back my BD Disk and encode them back again or should i just reencode the already encoded ones? Its tedious to gather boxes of my BD Collections to encode one by one soo hoping the already Encoded ones would suffice..

    3. Should I encode all my media to x265 10bit? or stay 8bit on a 8bit source?

    4. I checked the x265 changelog and all I see are AVX2 optimizations, should getting a CPU with AVX2 give me substantial speed or should I stay on my i7-3930K (Sandy Bridge-E) CPU?

    Planning on upgrading my NAS from Sandy Brigde-E to any future Intel i7 Extreme CPU (Skylake-E maybe) or AMD Zen CPU's in the future.. Encode times wont be a problem cause my NAS is OPEN 24/7. All of my encodes are x264 CRF=18 Slow Preset. Still waiting for the 10TB Drives come down to at least $200+ price range, till then 6x3TB is still ok for me..
    Only you can answer that question. Asking for someone else's opinion is a total waste of your time. Therefore this post is a total waste of time.........

    Learn to test on your own and you will benefit greatly for it. That's my take on it. Good Luck!
    Got my retirement plans all set. Looks like I only have to work another 5 years after I die........
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  6. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    ...And while it may not be natural to you, it is a good thing to do tests on SHORT DURATION segments (say 10-15 sec for consistent-motion shows and 2-5min for widely varying-motion shows). Once you've got a good setup, save it as a preset/template so you can reuse (even if re-adjusting later).

    Scott
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    Originally Posted by racer-x View Post
    Originally Posted by RazorBurn View Post
    I have a quite a significant media collection on my Custom Built NAS.. 8TB+ Anime (Both 8bit and 10bit), 2TB+ Movies and 4TB+ TV series on my NAS.. Im planning on migrating them to HEVC cause im running out of Disk space in my storage.. IF HEVC can save me at least 10% or 20%, thats already huge if u have 15TB media.. Would like some people here to help me and answer this questions.. Quality is not a problem cause Most of my content (80 - 90%) are from BD and few hard to find ones are downloaded from the net mostly 1080p.

    1. Is x265 ready to replace x264? Or to be more specific, can x265 save me 10 to 20% space for the same quality or small tangible loss of quality?

    2. Do have I have gather back my BD Disk and encode them back again or should i just reencode the already encoded ones? Its tedious to gather boxes of my BD Collections to encode one by one soo hoping the already Encoded ones would suffice..

    3. Should I encode all my media to x265 10bit? or stay 8bit on a 8bit source?

    4. I checked the x265 changelog and all I see are AVX2 optimizations, should getting a CPU with AVX2 give me substantial speed or should I stay on my i7-3930K (Sandy Bridge-E) CPU?

    Planning on upgrading my NAS from Sandy Brigde-E to any future Intel i7 Extreme CPU (Skylake-E maybe) or AMD Zen CPU's in the future.. Encode times wont be a problem cause my NAS is OPEN 24/7. All of my encodes are x264 CRF=18 Slow Preset. Still waiting for the 10TB Drives come down to at least $200+ price range, till then 6x3TB is still ok for me..
    Only you can answer that question. Asking for someone else's opinion is a total waste of your time. Therefore this post is a total waste of time.........

    Learn to test on your own and you will benefit greatly for it. That's my take on it. Good Luck!
    Im only asking for some opinions, if u see this as waste of time why reply? This site is videoHELP.com not videoforexperts.com.. Im not an expert in video encoding, i just know how to. An opinion from experts here would be great help to me..

    BTW ive already did some test on small clips from original BD disk source, comparing x264 = CRF 18 to x265 = CRF 22.. Gives me 20% max to as little as 5% size reduction while very acceptable quality.. Need more test i guess.. Only tested on my anime contents..

    Its the 3rd and 4th questions that i really need some opinions.. Dont have a CPU with AVX2 to test the speed optimizations..
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    Originally Posted by RazorBurn View Post
    IF HEVC can save me at least 10% or 20%, thats already huge if u have 15TB media.
    So basically you are willing to degrade the quality of all your videos to save about $80 of storage?

    Last edited by newpball; 20th Jun 2015 at 22:45.
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  9. Originally Posted by newpball View Post
    So basically you are willing to degrade the quality of all your videos to save about $80 of storage?
    Personally I'm done trying to talk any sense into all these guys that ask questions along this line, from now on I'm going to encourage every one of them to re-encode multiple times, with as little bit rate as possible, while scaling the source down to a smaller resolution.

    @OP: I say GO FOR IT! Re-encode everything you have with x265+crf 30, you will save a ton of space, don't worry about the quality, it's really not that important anyway and don't worry about the time you will spend or the electricity you will waste re-encoding everything, it will be well worth it

    To everyone else: If you guys ever wonder why I am vehemently against taking a Blu-Ray and re-encoding it to a lower bit rate for use in an environment like the OP has, his first post is exactly why. Codec technology constantly moves forward and what may be the best today won't be so tomorrow.

    This guy will be back in 2-3 years asking about re-encoding his collection to VP10 or the Daala or whatever the hot new codec is at the moment.
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    Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    @OP: I say GO FOR IT! Re-encode everything you have with x265+crf 30, you will save a ton of space, don't worry about the quality, it's really not that important anyway and don't worry about the time you will spend or the electricity you will waste re-encoding everything, it will be well worth it
    This may just be a start, before you know it 'experts' will rush in and recommend to lower the resolution to 720 as 'nobody sees the difference anyway' and do some sharpening and noise reduction to turn it into a cartoon, oh and while we are at it, let's cut everything to 16:9 proportions, 'no more black nasty bars'. But, and this is important, let's recommend a lossless intermediate, we certainly we want people to know that quality comes first for us.

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  11. Member stax76's Avatar
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    I would like to point out that there is a comparison tool in StaxRip that was designed for codec and filter comparisons, it can be found at Tools/Advanced/Comparison Tool.
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    First of all not all people want high quality.. In my case, Im streaming from plex, In Plex streaming a media with subtitles (all anime) will always force transcoding.. Second i watch some medias in my 7in Lenovo Tablet with 1000+ x 600+ res or something cant remember.. Having a high quality is waste of space in my NAS and Battery on my Tablet.. And if ever I want the all the quality i need, i can always MakeMKV all my media again.. Electricity wont be a problem cause i already have Solar Panels on the roof dedicated and wired to my setup..
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  13. Member racer-x's Avatar
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    How much are you saving on your Solar Panels? Just curious, I see them popping up all over.

    Go ahead and encode everything to what you want (that's your prerogative) as long as you're able to play them at the full framerate on all your devices......
    Got my retirement plans all set. Looks like I only have to work another 5 years after I die........
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    Originally Posted by _Al_ View Post
    Will HEVC 10bit go mainstream ? Outside of computer sphere.
    Sure! And will shift from the Ultra-BD with 12bit. To the output of 4k video discs will be ripen Daala, PERSEUS, VP10.
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    Originally Posted by racer-x View Post
    How much are you saving on your Solar Panels? Just curious, I see them popping up all over.

    Go ahead and encode everything to what you want (that's your prerogative) as long as you're able to play them at the full framerate on all your devices......
    The solar panels is the the first product I bought after sellling my bitcoins after mining 4 years ago when gpu mining was still lucatrive..

    After much testing last night.. I've decided to leave alone the encoded x264 as its too much hassle to reencode them again. But also decided to encode on x265 10bit on future medias as there currently no h264 10 bět hardware acceleration capable mobile soc but mediatek and most mobile soc companies have announced that their soc will support hardware H265 10bit acceleration on future soc..

    Mobile SOC that can decode 10bit h265 in Hardware
    PowerVR D5500 (SOC mostly used in Iphone) http://blog.imgtec.com/powervr-video/powervr-d5500-decoding-hevc-in-10-bit-colours-at-4k-resolutions
    Rockchip RK3288 SoC
    ARM Mali-V550
    and many more coming..
    Last edited by RazorBurn; 21st Jun 2015 at 11:17.
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  16. Originally Posted by newpball View Post
    Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    @OP: I say GO FOR IT! Re-encode everything you have with x265+crf 30, you will save a ton of space, don't worry about the quality, it's really not that important anyway and don't worry about the time you will spend or the electricity you will waste re-encoding everything, it will be well worth it
    This may just be a start, before you know it 'experts' will rush in and recommend to lower the resolution to 720 as 'nobody sees the difference anyway' and do some sharpening and noise reduction to turn it into a cartoon, oh and while we are at it, let's cut everything to 16:9 proportions, 'no more black nasty bars'. But, and this is important, let's recommend a lossless intermediate, we certainly we want people to know that quality comes first for us.
    If, when this subject has come up in the past and you've been shown examples of how little difference lowering the resolution does make at times..... depending on the amount of detail in the 1080p source, naturally...... and you hadn't ignored them because they contradict your generalisations, then maybe you'd have a tiny bit of credibility.

    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/369485-960x540-HD?p=2367728&viewfull=1#post2367728

    Here's another one for you. The 1080p version followed by the same frame after it's been resized to 720p and back. Check the image info and you'll see they're both saved with jpeg's 100% quality. Check the file sizes and you'll see the resized version is just a little smaller than the original, indicating there's probably less detail to compress, but can you see the difference?

    What it is about the "it depends on the source" concept that eludes you and forces you to apply the same generalisations to everything?

    Click image for larger version

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    Click image for larger version

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  17. ^^^^Hate to break this to you but you can easily see a loss of detail and quality in the resized version, most easily seen in the patterns on the dresses of the 2 women.

    Of course, your test is flawed, no one in their right minds would downscale a 1080p source to 720p just to upscale it to 1080p again.
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    Originally Posted by hello_hello View Post
    The 1080p version......
    That one is already bad!

    Is that straight from your blu-ray?

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  19. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sophisticles View Post
    ^^^^Hate to break this to you but you can easily see a loss of detail and quality in the resized version, most easily seen in the patterns on the dresses of the 2 women.

    Of course, your test is flawed, no one in their right minds would downscale a 1080p source to 720p just to upscale it to 1080p again.
    Actually, EVERYBODY in their right mind would do that (to show a test comparison). It mimics what the process will be in playback ([1080p file -> HDMI -> 1:1scan 1080p Display] vs. [1080p file -> 720p downscaled file -> HDMI -> Upscaled to 1080p Display] or [1080p file -> 720p downscaled file -> GFX card upscale to 1080p -> HDMI -> 1:1scan 1080p Display]). And it is a proper round trip comparison of apples (1080p) to apples (1080p) to allow for exact differencing.

    And speaking of differencing, over 93-95% of the pixels are identical, leaving only the bottom few percent being different. A Photoshop difference overlay shows nearly all black, and is only even somewhat visible when the contrast is highly expanded.

    Of course, the example is slightly flawed, as a lossless PNG stills should have been provided to avoid blocking errors (which ARE visible in the High Contrast difference view). Also, I didn't check, but I think there's a very slight gamma shift between the 2 that needs to be accounted for.

    Scott
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 24th Jun 2015 at 16:46.
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    And speaking of differencing, over 93-95% of the pixels are identical, leaving only the bottom few percent being different. A Photoshop difference overlay shows nearly all black, and is only even somewhat visible when the contrast is highly expanded.
    Which simply means that the "1080p" is crap to begin with.

    Heavy processed:
    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by newpball; 24th Jun 2015 at 17:52.
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  21. Originally Posted by newpball View Post
    Originally Posted by RazorBurn View Post
    IF HEVC can save me at least 10% or 20%, thats already huge if u have 15TB media.
    So basically you are willing to degrade the quality of all your videos to save about $80 of storage?

    I assume this is more than additional 2TB HDD but also reasonable setup - 8TB HDD cost more than 80$ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822178748
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  22. Also the difference in something like photoshop is larger because hello_hello didn't fix the horizontal shift . He probably used nnedi_rpow2 without cshift

    He chose that to demonstrate that some retail BD sources don't really have that high of actual resolution (in terms of resolvable details) . While some certainly do, many certainly do not .
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    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    ...some retail BD sources ...
    So you honestly think that's a retail BD source?

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  24. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by newpball View Post
    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    And speaking of differencing, over 93-95% of the pixels are identical, leaving only the bottom few percent being different. A Photoshop difference overlay shows nearly all black, and is only even somewhat visible when the contrast is highly expanded.
    Which simply means that the "1080p" is crap to begin with.

    Heavy processed:
    Image
    [Attachment 32303 - Click to enlarge]


    Therefore: IT DEPENDS (on your source quality)!

    Thank you for finally admitting this, even if by accident.

    Scott
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  25. Originally Posted by newpball View Post
    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    ...some retail BD sources ...
    So you honestly think that's a retail BD source?

    There are many retail BD's a lot worse than that


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    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    Originally Posted by newpball View Post
    Originally Posted by poisondeathray View Post
    ...some retail BD sources ...
    So you honestly think that's a retail BD source?

    There are many retail BD's a lot worse than that


    Undoubtedly not due to stuffy old mastering engineers?

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  27. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    No. Probably due to think-they-know-it-all-and-don't-follow-best-practices young mastering corporate artistes.

    Scott
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  28. Originally Posted by RazorBurn View Post
    2. Do have I have gather back my BD Disk and encode them back again or should i just reencode the already encoded ones? Its tedious to gather boxes of my BD Collections to encode one by one soo hoping the already Encoded ones would suffice..
    I think everybody will agree that it is better to encode directly from the BD, if you have it with you. Not re-encode it from an already encoded file.
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  29. Originally Posted by RazorBurn View Post
    I have a quite a significant media collection on my Custom Built NAS.. 8TB+ Anime (Both 8bit and 10bit), 2TB+ Movies and 4TB+ TV series on my NAS.. Im planning on migrating them to HEVC cause im running out of Disk space in my storage.. IF HEVC can save me at least 10% or 20%, thats already huge if u have 15TB media.. Would like some people here to help me and answer this questions.. Quality is not a problem cause Most of my content (80 - 90%) are from BD and few hard to find ones are downloaded from the net mostly 1080p.

    1. Is x265 ready to replace x264? Or to be more specific, can x265 save me 10 to 20% space for the same quality or small tangible loss of quality?
    In my personal experience, yes - HEVC can encode at slightly lower bitrates, for the same visual quality. (If you are encoding from the same source, of course - in your case, the BD.) The catch being that HEVC encoding is painfully slow, as of now. If you have a beast of a processor, then it would be worthwhile to use HEVC to save on storage space. But the electricity consumed has to be taken into account, if you are worried about cost.
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  30. Originally Posted by RazorBurn View Post
    I have a quite a significant media collection on my Custom Built NAS.. 8TB+ Anime (Both 8bit and 10bit), 2TB+ Movies and 4TB+ TV series on my NAS.. Im planning on migrating them to HEVC cause im running out of Disk space in my storage.. IF HEVC can save me at least 10% or 20%, thats already huge if u have 15TB media.. Would like some people here to help me and answer this questions.. Quality is not a problem cause Most of my content (80 - 90%) are from BD and few hard to find ones are downloaded from the net mostly 1080p.

    1. Is x265 ready to replace x264? Or to be more specific, can x265 save me 10 to 20% space for the same quality or small tangible loss of quality?
    In my personal experience, yes - HEVC can encode at slightly lower bitrates, for the same visual quality. (If you are encoding from the same source, of course - in your case, the BD.) The catch being that HEVC encoding is painfully slow, as of now. If you have a beast of a processor, then it would be worthwhile to use HEVC to save on storage space. But the electricity consumed has to be taken into account, if you are worried about cost.

    If electricity costs and time to encode are a concern for you, I would suggest waiting for x265 to be further optimized.
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