Newbie wanting help to convert VHS to DVD (copyright)

[silky951]

Hello. im new and not sure where to put this post.

I have 2 VHS to DVD recorders. one is a Panasonic DMR-EZ48V and the other a slightly older Sanyo Progressive Scan unit. Im converting some home made VHS tapes to DVd and having no issues however Im trying to convert a old VHS tape I bought at a school play where my child was acting. Im trying to copy it to DVD but im getting a copyright message and neither recorder in current default settings will let me copy the vhs tape. Ive looked through the Panasonic manual but nothing clear in there but not looked through a Sanyo one as do not posess a manual.

Im hoping someone can help me through this conversion if possible.

Thanks

[newpball]

Capture the video with a capture card and then convert it to a format you can burn on a DVD.

[usually_quiet]

If copy protection prevents a DVD recorder from recording the tape, the most common cause is false or real Macrovision detection. The cure is a video clarifier/stabilizer like the XDIMAX Grex, but it may darken the picture a little. Note that it is very likely that a capture device would have the same problem as most are designed to react negatively to Macrovision.

[Edit] Your Panasonic EZ48V is VCR/DVD recorder combo, which uses an internal connection for dubbing from VHS to DVD. Since the video stabilizer must be connected between the VCR and the DVD recorder, you probably need to play the tape in another VCR and record with the Panasonic DVD recorder, or play the tape on the Panasonic's VHS deck and record with the Sanyo DVD recorder.

[Cornucopia]

Rarely does a "clarifier" fully reform and rejuvenate the signal. What's really needed to take care of the problem is a full-frame TBC. In doing its processes, it strips the vertical interval signals (which includes Macrovision) and generates a new, clean VI signal in its place, thus creating both a more stable timebase AND one that is unhindered by MV's overbearing "protections".

Scott

[silky951]

I dont want to be spending more money on devices to convert one vhs tape. Isnt there a way to use my 2 machines to get the tape to DVD?

[silky951]

If copy protection prevents a DVD recorder from recording the tape, the most common cause is false or real Macrovision detection. The cure is a video clarifier/stabilizer like the XDIMAX Grex, but it may darken the picture a little. Note that it is very likely that a capture device would have the same problem as most are designed to react negatively to Macrovision.

[Edit] Your Panasonic EZ48V is VCR/DVD recorder combo, which uses an internal connection for dubbing from VHS to DVD. Since the video stabilizer must be connected between the VCR and the DVD recorder, you probably need to play the tape in another VCR and record with the Panasonic DVD recorder, or play the tape on the Panasonic's VHS deck and record with the Sanyo DVD recorder.

I have another VHS player which I guess I could connect to the panasocin somehow, but how would i copy from those 2? Im not sure i understannd how to copy a vhs tape through another medium.

[usually_quiet]

Rarely does a "clarifier" fully reform and rejuvenate the signal. What's really needed to take care of the problem is a full-frame TBC. In doing its processes, it strips the vertical interval signals (which includes Macrovision) and generates a new, clean VI signal in its place, thus creating both a more stable timebase AND one that is unhindered by MV's overbearing "protections".

Scott

There is a problem when using a full-frame TBC with a DVD recorder. It prevents the DVD recorders built-in line TBC/frame syncronizer from doing its very important job.

[usually_quiet]

If copy protection prevents a DVD recorder from recording the tape, the most common cause is false or real Macrovision detection. The cure is a video clarifier/stabilizer like the XDIMAX Grex, but it may darken the picture a little. Note that it is very likely that a capture device would have the same problem as most are designed to react negatively to Macrovision.

[Edit] Your Panasonic EZ48V is VCR/DVD recorder combo, which uses an internal connection for dubbing from VHS to DVD. Since the video stabilizer must be connected between the VCR and the DVD recorder, you probably need to play the tape in another VCR and record with the Panasonic DVD recorder, or play the tape on the Panasonic's VHS deck and record with the Sanyo DVD recorder.

I have another VHS player which I guess I could connect to the panasocin somehow, but how would i copy from those 2? Im not sure i understannd how to copy a vhs tape through another medium.

Connect the VCR's composite out to Grex composite in, then connect the Grex composite out to the DVD recorder's composite in.

[usually_quiet]

I dont want to be spending more money on devices to convert one vhs tape. Isnt there a way to use my 2 machines to get the tape to DVD?

No. If Macrovision is the cause of you problem, you can't correct it without buying a device capable of removing Macrovision.

[Edit]If it is just one non-commercial tape, it might cost less to have the tape converted to DVD by a service like this one, which is better than the drug store/chain retailer transfer services: http://www.digitalfaq.com/services/video-conversion-tape-to-dvd.htm One of the employees at Digital FAQ is a member here.

[Cornucopia]

Rarely does a "clarifier" fully reform and rejuvenate the signal. What's really needed to take care of the problem is a full-frame TBC. In doing its processes, it strips the vertical interval signals (which includes Macrovision) and generates a new, clean VI signal in its place, thus creating both a more stable timebase AND one that is unhindered by MV's overbearing "protections".

Scott

There is a problem when using a full-frame TBC with a DVD recorder. It prevents the DVD recorders built-in line TBC/frame syncronizer from doing its very important job.

Haven't ever encountered that with any other DVD recorders...hmmm.

Scott

[usually_quiet]

Rarely does a "clarifier" fully reform and rejuvenate the signal. What's really needed to take care of the problem is a full-frame TBC. In doing its processes, it strips the vertical interval signals (which includes Macrovision) and generates a new, clean VI signal in its place, thus creating both a more stable timebase AND one that is unhindered by MV's overbearing "protections".

Scott

There is a problem when using a full-frame TBC with a DVD recorder. It prevents the DVD recorders built-in line TBC/frame syncronizer from doing its very important job.

Haven't ever encountered that with any other DVD recorders...hmmm.

Scott

If you say so, but lordsmurf says otherwise. According to him, the line TBC must precede the full-frame TBC, and a full frame TBC interferes with a DVD recorder's ability to correct tearing.

These DVD recorder "TBCs" tend to only be good at one thing: removing tearing (sometimes called "flagging" because the video waves like a flag in the wind) that can sometimes be seen on the top of a VHS signal, a visual distortion on the uppermost portion of the screen. You'll have to disable the VCR TBC and often remove the standalone TBC, to get benefit of this feature, as needed.

Read more: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/2251-tbc-time-base.html#ixzz3dWmGJjbS

[Cornucopia]

That's talking about the DVD's on-board processing. If you have a good VCR with on-board Line-based TBC flowing into a good/pro Full-frame TBC flowing into a DVD recorder, there should no longer be any "flagging/tearing" to fix up, as the upstream processes should have fully & completely taken care of that (and more). That's how I used to do it (quite successfully). In a sense then the DVDRec's "TBC" (which is really a buffer/frame-synch as part of the A->D process) is redundant/superfluous. Don't know if they can be actually turned off.

Scott

[usually_quiet]

That's talking about the DVD's on-board processing. If you have a good VCR with on-board Line-based TBC flowing into a good/pro Full-frame TBC flowing into a DVD recorder, there should no longer be any "flagging/tearing" to fix up, as the upstream processes should have fully & completely taken care of that (and more). That's how I used to do it (quite successfully). In a sense then the DVDRec's "TBC" (which is really a buffer/frame-synch as part of the A->D process) is redundant/superfluous. Don't know if they can be actually turned off.

Scott

Now that you and newpball are best buddies, have you suddenly forgotten that sometimes people have to sacrifice a bit of quality for economic reasons?

The OP is plainly trying to do this on the cheap with minimum equipment outlay. He does not have a good VCR with a line based TBC. Those are hard to find in good condition and cost a small fortune. He has two DVD recorders and a regular VCR, which may or may not be in good shape. A TBC costs far more than a video clarifier and would likely prevent the DVD recorder's frame synchronizer from doing any picture correction.

[Cornucopia]

As if.

There's doing it right/optimally/professionally and there's doing it enough to get it done, and there's a whole range in between. If the OP cannot afford the full TBC but other devices that are affordable yet helpful enough to satisfy him can be gotten, go for it. I'm not about to demand nor denigrate, just demonstrate and defend. As long as the OP knows the score.

Again, a TBC would DO the picture correction, so the DVDrec just needs to record at that point.
If a TBC cannot be had inexpensively, and the VCR has no line TBC and is iffy, that IS fighting an uphill battle, even with a DVDrecorder.
Depending on how much material needs to be converted, maybe the OP should look into a transfer service (Lordsmurf, anyone?). Also now that I think it through, a "tape bought at a school play" does not sound like something that would have macrovision. Maybe there are other issues (LP mode? Azimuth need adjustment/realignment?). All the more reason to let a pro deal with this.

Scott

[usually_quiet]

Depending on how much material needs to be converted, maybe the OP should look into a transfer service (Lordsmurf, anyone?).

That is why I pasted a link to the transfer service page at Digital FAQ in an earlier post in this thread. So far it is just one tape.

Also now that I think it through, a "tape bought at a school play" does not sound like something that would have macrovision. Maybe there are other issues (LP mode? Azimuth need adjustment/realignment?). All the more reason to let a pro deal with this.

Yes, real Macrovision is unlikely. False Macrovision is still a distinct possibility. A fair number of people show up here asking why their DVD recorder or capture device won't record one of their home-recorded TV shows on VHS tape or home movies on VHS.

[Cornucopia]

One tape!! Oh, yeah, missed that. Heck, not worth buying any equipment for just one, IMO.

Scott

[orsetto]

silky951, don't be put off by the extensive technical info you've been given: thats par for the course around here, we tend to swat a fly with a blowtorch. What it boils down to is: DVD recorders are equipped with a circuit that detects the anti-copy signal on commercial VHS tapes, and prevents record mode from engaging when such tapes are the source.

Ordinarily, all you would need to work around this is a simple old-school VHS filter, still available from web dealers for approx. $25. The "Grex" costs about $90 and is usually overkill for VHS, its higher cost includes additional filtering for non-VHS sources. A full-fledged "TBC" revamps the entire signal, so is the top dog cure, but in the process can trigger other issues (the one remaining consumer TBC costs $229 and seems to be made on the same Chinese assembly line as Nike knockoffs, with about the same mfr quality control).

As others have suggested, your child's performance tape probably falls into the extremely annoying "false protection trigger" category. It isn't commercial, so it doesn't contain a true anti-copy signal. But something else is wrong with it that is destabilizing the video just enough to trick a DVD recorder into thinking it must be a protected commercial tape. Solving this can be a royal PITA, requiring you try several filter boxes and/or TBCs until the recorder agrees to dub the tape. Even then, with such weird tapes the gear used to clear the false anti-copy syndrome tends to exaggerate other hidden problems: you get to dub the tape to DVD, but the DVD looks horrendous. Rather than put yourself thru that, I'd agree with the recommendation you send the tape out to a specialized VHS transfer service (that already has all possible hardware/software configurations, and knows how to best apply them).

*********

As a side note, much of the VHS conversion advice posted on this and other forums is well meaning but hopelessly dated in terms of what is practical in 2015. Many of us bought the necessary gear 5, 10, even 15 years ago when it was still available either new or mint condition used, and reasonably priced. Today, most of the go-to gear we talk about is simply no longer available to the average newcomer. The high-end VCRs with built in TBC/DNR are long since discontinued, many are nearing 20 years old, they're in beater condition, and finding a good VCR repair tech is harder than finding a good family doctor. Prices of old top-grade VCRs are outrageous given the age and mileage on them. Same applies to some of the classic top-grade DVD/HDD recorders. A good number of the PC video cards discussed are no longer available, they've been arguably replaced by various USB dongles. The Grex is still available new, with decent quality control, but the same cannot be said for TBCs. The only TBC you can still get new is the AVT-2710 for $229: it used to be very good, but quality control slipped years ago to the point many new units cause more problems than they solve. Not many dealers are willing to exchange them multiple times until you find a "good" one. Used TBCs are even worse: professional units are huge, heavy and usually ineffective. Used AVT-2710s are a crapshoot. Used DataVideo TBC-1000s are also a roll of the dice (their built-in splitter wiring tends to break down).

Today, the quick-n-dirty method is the only practical option for most people (DVD/VHS combo, or standard VCR + a standard DVD recorder, or standard VCR + PC USB video dongle). Anything "better" will require wading into a sea of sometimes overpriced, often defective, second-hand hardware. Unless you plan to make VHS conversions your life's work, or have a huge personal library to convert, most people should just ruthlessly narrow down to a handful of their most-prized tapes, then hand them off to a professional digitizing service.