Going 4K for the serious amateur

[glenpinn]

There is some camera source 4K footage here at the bottom of this page: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/panasonic-g7/panasonic-g7-shooters-report-part-i.htm

Thanks a lot, but those samples are absolutely horrible to watch to say the least, would like to see something filmed in a much more professional way, maybe shot using a tripod rather than hands free.

The 4k/30p video of the High Octane guys, clearly shot in hand held mode, is almost unbearable to watch (it does my eyes in very badly) because of the insane jerkiness in the video, and clearly seems to demonstrates a massive lack of image stabilization, something i would never be without while shooting hand held video, even if my camera is mounted on one of my custom hand held rigs.

The 1080/50p Rahal pitstop video is hardly any better, and it loses focus in some places, again i understand the conditions that this video was shot under, but there is nothing what so ever to like with any of that video footage, and if i was moving to 4k, i definately want much better than what i saw from the G7, but like i said before, i will never go 4k until i can get a decent dedicated video cam that has built in Stabilization plus shoots in 50/60p mode, and has a decent low light sensor.

Yes i am being picky, but i know what i like from a camera, and i figure i just haven't found anything that really excites me at the moment, or what i have found is pretty much outside my budget for the kind of stuff i shoot, or the camera is too big for my style of shooting.

Cheers

Edit: for what its worth, i absolutely adore the video from the Sony FDR-AX1, and it shoots 4k in 50/60p mode, but it comes with a hefty price tag.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1002485-REG/sony_fdr_ax1_4k_camcorder.html

simply an amazing camera in both 1080 and 4k modes, but i would love it to have a slightly better sensor for low light, but right now this cam would be my choice if i was to splurge a lot of cash.

Shoots in the following modes.
4k XAVC-S @ 50/60p @ 150Mbps
4k XAVC-S @ 25/30p @ 100Mbps
1080 mp4 @ 50/60p @ 50Mbps
1080 avchd @ 50/60p @ 28Mbps

I managed to download a 5 minute 4k/25p XAVC-S sample video clip from this camera (2.5gb @ 100Mbps) and i have cut a short 1.5 minute segment from that video using VRD Pro, and output that to 4k/25p mp4 @ 77Mbps, making a 880mb file, as well as down converting it to 1080/25p @ 18Mbps for support on my own 55" HD tv.

If anyone wants to see either samples, you can grab them from my Dropbox Pro account, but don't try playing in the Dropbox player, it is hopeless.

4k: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3gjcbdmi5js20ux/VRD%204k-25p%20h264%20mp4%20%40%2077Mbps.mp4?dl=0
1080: https://www.dropbox.com/s/n6r5y7pymfxin2k/VRD%201080-25p%20h264%20mp4%20%40%2018.2Mbps.mp4?dl=0

[newpball]

... i will never go 4k until i can get a decent dedicated video cam that has built in Stabilization plus shoots in 50/60p mode, and has a decent low light sensor.

Looks like this one is right up your alley:

Panasonic AG-DVX200 4K Handheld Camcorder

Product Highlights

• Single 4/3 MOS Sensor with 12 Stops DR
• DCI 4K 24P, UHD 4K Up to 60p
• Variable Frame Rate Up to 120 FPS in FHD
• MP4 / MOV Recording in 4K
• Integrated Leica 13x f/2.8 - f/4.5 Lens
• 3 x Individual Lens Control Rings
• 2 x SD Cards Slots (U3 Compatible)
• HDMI 2.0, 3G-SDI Output

Out in October.

And while we are at it the GH4 has a replacement coming, the GX8.

Panasonic is busy to say the least!

[glenpinn]

Thanks a lot for the info, and have to be careful not to confuse it with the HVX200.

4/3" Sensor, up there with the GH4, and a lot bigger than the AX1, so it may well be the cam i am looking for, especially with low light (early evening/sunset/dusk/cloudy weather etc)

Now i just have to hold out until i can get some actual 4k and 1080p sample footage from the camera to play around with (not youtube samples)

Should come in at under $5000 in USA but more likely well over that here in Australia, because unfortunately, we cannot get any electronics at cheap prices USA do because of all the crap taxes, and because the retailers shaft us.

Big problem with cameras, especially video cams is that not many stores will hold these in stock, i know our camera stores where i live wont, they won't even stock the higher end consumer cams because they cannot sell them, most consumers will just buy a sub $500 full HD camera because they do what they want it to do without the price tag.

I do know the local Panasonic rep in my city, but whether he can grab one for demo purposes will be another thing.

Panasonic also has a new consumer cam out as well, the HC-WX970 4K Ultra HD with a single 1/2.3" BSI sensor.

Will see if i can hunt down some sample video, and check out the actual shooting modes with bitrates as well.

And while we are at it the GH4 has a replacement coming, the GX8.

Not going there, never going to shoot video with any interchangeable lens DSLR type camera, don't care how much cheaper they are, those things require too much hand holding as far as selecting the right lens, they are ergonomically painful to use, and they just don't suit my roaming style of video.

Cheers

[newpball]

Panasonic also has a new consumer cam out as well, the HC-WX970 4K Ultra HD with a single 1/2.3" BSI sensor.

That one will not give you your most desired 50/60p, in fact that one does not even do 24p.

Also there is yet another model, announced two days ago the which will do UHD as well. The LUMIX DMC-FZ330 with a fixed lens and will be priced under the G7.

Panasonic is busy, real busy.

Not going there, never going to shoot video with any interchangeable lens DSLR type camera, don't care how much cheaper they are, those things require too much hand holding as far as selecting the right lens, they are ergonomically painful to use, and they just don't suit my roaming style of video.

I figured that! It's OK, to each his own, you are not that kind of creativity guy who wants to play with lenses to get different effects like depth of field and bokeh stuff.

I on the other hand love it, a video camera with a fixed lens is too limiting for me.

You like handheld, I on the other hand hate it (and no I am not talking steady cam or shoulder rigs, but completely in the hand), I think it creates the most awful videos, stabilization or not.

When it comes to artistic issues we all have our own inclinations !
And that's all right!

[glenpinn]

That one will not give you your most desired 50/60p, in fact that one does not even do 24p.

Forget about 24p in a consumer camcorder, aint gunna happen, nor do i want it, nor am i going down the consumer path again with cams such as that, and of coarse it is not going to do 50/60p @ 4k, it will only be confined to 25/30p, the 50/60p will be in 1080 mode only.

The Sony AX100 for around $2000 gives a superior quality 4k/25p video than the HC-WX970 4k/25p gives out for around $1000.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IV0IbDgQIw

The panasonic HC-X1000 was the other 4k/50p camera i was considering along with the Sony AX1, and is cheaper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WSBpZfA2AA

Now the DVX200 is here, with bigger sensor, it would have to be the camera of choice out of these 3.

Also there is yet another model, announced two days ago the which will do UHD as well. The LUMIX DMC-FZ330 with a fixed lens and will be priced under the G7.

I was considering the FZ1000 earlier on, but once i got some sample footage (4k/25p) it proved to be not what i expected it to be, although it did shoot beautiful 1080/50p video.

I figured that! It's OK, to each his own, you are not that kind of creativity guy who wants to play with lenses to get different effects like depth of field and bokeh stuff.

I on the other hand love it, a video camera with a fixed lens is too limiting for me.

You and I are obviously very different with our specific needs when it comes to shooting video, and if you shoot the type of roaming video that i do (car shows and lots of travel related video) with some tripod work as well (events) you would probably have a completely different opinion to that, but that does not mean that i cannot be artistic or creative with my video, far from it as a matter of fact, and i have friends who shoot weddings with dedicated video cameras (in manual and AF mode) and they can shoot the most amazing video when they want to, you just need to know and understand your camera to be able to do it, and do it without needing to change lenses, some even shoot their weddings in 50p, some shoot in 25p, for me i cant shoot anything in less than 50p because it suits my style of shooting.

As i have already mentioned, i need the best built in Auto Focus and Image Stabilization systems i can get for my needs, and if you don't need these features, then great, you stick with your your artistic needs and shoot with what you do.

You like handheld, I on the other hand hate it (and no I am not talking steady cam or shoulder rigs, but completely in the hand), I think it creates the most awful videos, stabilization or not.

Yes, i already mentioned in another thread that i don't shoot any video in "hand held mode" as in holding the camera with my hands, i use my own Rigs and monopod, but i have had a few scenarios where i had to remove the camera from a rig to shoot some video because of confined space, especially in crowded places.

Cheers

[newpball]

An evening test shot with the Panasonic Lumix G7 in UHD 2.40:1

[glenpinn]

I dont watch videos in the youtube website to guage video quality, even if i attempt to watch them in 4k (as your video is) on the asdl2 internet connection we have, i cant watch it anyway, just keeps buffering all the time.

I prefer to download the video at its highest possible resolution, but for some reason i am not able to download your video from Youtube so i can at least see it in the lower bitrate that youtube drops it to.

[newpball]

I dont watch videos in the youtube website, i prefer to download the video at its highest possible resolution, but for some reason i am not able to download your video from Youtube so i can at least see it in the lower bitrate that youtube drops it to.

Your download software may not support 4k.

Check for a program called 4k video downloader.

[glenpinn]

Check for a program called 4k video downloader.

it does, believe me, i use Free Youtube Downloader, current version, downloaded many 4k vids so far, usually when i get this problem the uploader has set their videos so they cannot be downloaded.

EDIT: its ok, i was uploading a video into my dropbox when i tried to download your video, and the youtube downloader was lagging, so i thought it failed to work.

Got it now.

[newpball]

A birdy.....custom colored.

[newpball]

The average broadcast HD bitrate today is less than 6Mbps.

Netflix is reportedly streaming 4k at 15.6Mbps today.

Netflix rocks and is more popular than ever:

http://gazettereview.com/2015/07/netflixs-popularity-is-at-an-all-time-high/

I suspect that the old broadcast guard will soon start to take the old "granny" out of the closet and ask the government to do something about it. In 10 years all that will be left is some government mandated 14,400 modem emergency broadcast signal for those who prefer to live under a rock!

[newpball]

Music for Beaches:



Direct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGUP-dnPoYI

[PowerFalcon]

Are there any cameras under $500 that can shoot 4K using ProRes ? I say under $500 as I won't be shooting much video, up to :30 min to an hour !

[smrpix]

You can get a GoPro for close to that price, but you aren't going to get ProRes out of it.

[PowerFalcon]

What can I get to which I will get ProRes for the price range ?

[smrpix]

What can I get to which I will get ProRes for the price range ?

In 4K -- nothing.

[PowerFalcon]

What is the best price range for 4K video with ProRes ?

[smrpix]

What is the best price range for 4K video with ProRes ?

Blackmagic without a lens starts at $3000.

[glenpinn]

Its a shame the Black Magic Pocket Cinema Camera doesn't shoot 4k, but they are one hell of a 1080p ProRes camera with the right lens.

[PowerFalcon]

I suppose I'm stuck with MP4 or a Black Magic Pocket Cinema 1080p camera with ProRes

[smrpix]

I suppose I'm stuck with MP4 or a Black Magic Pocket Cinema 1080p camera with ProRes

You absolutely can shoot 4K prores. You just can't do it for $500.

[glenpinn]

You absolutely can shoot 4K prores. You just can't do it for $500.

$2500 is about the cheapest Black Magic camera that shoots 4k is it not ???

[PowerFalcon]

I suppose I'm stuck with MP4 or a Black Magic Pocket Cinema 1080p camera with ProRes

You absolutely can shoot 4K prores. You just can't do it for $500.

I know, why I said my only option for under $1K is 1080p; I suppose it's better then nothing unless anyone has any other suggestions ? I have a 4K camera but it only can save to MP4.

[glenpinn]

I know, why I said my only option for under $1K is 1080p; I suppose it's better then nothing unless anyone has any other suggestions ? I have a 4K camera but it only can save to MP4.

Why do you want ProRes ?

My son had BMPCC with about 5k worth of camera gear and lenses, and it shot beautiful 1080/25p ProRes, but he had to Color Grade it, because it is very flat when shot by the camera.

I was going to get the same camera, but once he showed me all the work involved with Color Grading and editing, i quickly decided against it, and i will now get a 4k camera that shoots 4k/50p XAVC-S at 150Mbps, such as the panasonic DVX200, which has a 4/3 sensor, and can shoot 1080/50p ALL-Intra @ 200Mbps

All i have to do is work out the best way to edit XAVC-S and ALL-Intra video at those bitrates.

[PowerFalcon]

I won't be doing alot of recording. I want an almost RAW format; that is my main concern. I'd be surprised if I shot an hour worth on average, that is how little I'd be shooting, probably up to 20 minutes tops..

[glenpinn]

I won't be doing alot of recording. I want an almost RAW format; that is my main concern. I'd be surprised if I shot an hour worth on average, that is how little I'd be shooting, probably up to 20 minutes tops..

Why not just 1080p, and what are you going to be shooting anyway.

nothing wrong with good 1080p, its not going to die for a very long time yet, and do you have the ability to edit 4k video, and then play it back.

[PowerFalcon]

I did decide on 1080p

What do you mean I have the ability to edit 4K video, then play it back ?

[glenpinn]

I did decide on 1080p
What do you mean I have the ability to edit 4K video, then play it back ?

My apologies, i missed the bit about deciding on 1080p, just ignore the other bit about having the ability to edit 4k and watch it on tv as it doesnt apply to you now.

Been a bit hectic at the moment in the forum, sometimes i mis-read parts of posts in my haste to reply elsewhere, and get my editing work done as well.