Backing up Videos???

[Vathraq]

Hi All,

I was wondering what is the most sure proof methods of backing up blu ray to dvd, dvd to dvd, mp4 to dvd. Likewise blu ray to mp4, dvd to mp4, or shrink an mp4 to a smaller size?

As to MP4's this is not a required container. I just want whatever has the most compatibility amongst the most amount of devices and players with hishest quality possible in a file that is 1 GB - 1.5 GB in size.

I have been reading lots of guides. I thought for the Blu Rays and dvd's that MakeMKV and AVStoDVD would be all I need, but have been encountering audio sync problems on multiple files and have yet to been able to fix it. I have tried using just about every combination I can think of.

I set HCenc to 2-pass VBR normally. The audio I have tried every encoder option. The audio is still out of sync. So, I decide to just use Wavi+Aften. Untick the "Auto Adjust Delay" option and edit the title and use Avisynth to trim for testing. Once the trim is done. I opened it in VLC and used the "Track Synchronization" tool to manually adjust the audio. I then took the delay from VLC. I set the video back up in AVStoDVD as before and this time when editing the title I used Avisynth to trim and set Audio Delay to the delay I found in VLC. The outcome still had audio out of sync.

I also used MYMP4Box Gui to demux the video and audio. I used ffmpeg line command to change the audio from AAC to AC3. I remuxed with MYMP4Box GUI and tried all the above and still had audio out of sync.

I know you are going to ask. Yes the audio is in sync when I play them with VLC. These videos generally will convert with DVD Flick. DVD Flick takes longer, the video seems to be a slight bit more fuzzy (even with the Video Encoder set to best). The audio has this wierd problem where the background music and stuff is louder than speech which causes me to continuously have to adjust volume during playback, and there is no batch processing natively.

DVD Styler seemed to work quite well. Only problem with it is I did not see any way to batch process with it and it would not convert my mkv that was made from blu ray using MakeMKV.

I am assuming I could use handbrake or vidcoder for MP4's?

Anyhelp would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Vathraq

[newpball]

Sorry but backing up BDs to DVDs and highest quality do not go together.

But I am sure many on this forum disagree with me and will help you to get this "top quality" job done!

[Kerry56]

Try BD Rebuilder to go from Blu-ray to DVD-video output. I've done at least a half dozen this way, with no sync issues. You'll have to change the Mode to Alternate Movie Only Output and remove the check mark for BD or AVCHD compliant output. Then put a check mark in the box for DVD5 or DVD9, depending on which size DVD you want. If you live in a country that uses PAL DVD standards, you will also have to go to Settings-->Setup and put a check mark in the box to assume PAL standards for DVD output.

You will need decrypted Blu ray as input to BD Rebuilder. You can get this using MakeMKV in Backup mode. Or you can import MKV files into BD Rebuilder by clicking File-->Import-->Video files.

I use Vidcoder for making MKV files...never make MP4, but it should be fine for both.

You also mentioned DVD to DVD. Do you just want to compress to a smaller sized DVD-video? If so DVD Rebuilder is the best choice.

[Vathraq]

Kerry56 thank you for the recommendations and the instructions. I have successfully imported 2 mkv's and correctly output the DVD5 structure. The video and audio are synced and look/sound good. Now just some work left for IMGBurn to take care of. I am going to try the batch tool for several videos tonight.

Yes, just taking a normal DVD and backing up to a TYG03 DVD5 +R. Do you just stick with HCenc or is there a place to download free versions of Cinemacraft Encoder and Canopus ProCoder? My searches seem to come up with about $60 for the basic version of each.

Any suggestions on encoding an MP4 from a cell phone, camera, etc to DVD5?

Seems if I want to put those backups on mobile devices etc. Vidcoder would be the tool.

So here is my list of tools it seems from what I have seen so far.

MakeMKV
BD Rebuilder
DVD Rebuilder
Vidcoder

Extra Tools

IMGBurn
Mediainfo

Anything you all would add to the list or that should get most of my encoding done?

Thanks,
Vathraq

[hello_hello]

Sorry but backing up BDs to DVDs and highest quality do not go together.

But I am sure many on this forum disagree with me and will help you to get this "top quality" job done!

Ah...... so this would be the thread that inspired your latest nonsense poll, would it?

Maybe it requires an explanation for you. The OP asked about backing up up video with a certain file size in mind while maintaining as much quality as possible. That's what we all aim to do to a certain extent, and for most of us file size is still a consideration even if it's not the major factor. If that wasn't true, nobody here would re-encode. Yet here we all are, posting in a forum dedicated to the subject.

If you could back up a video while maintaining a certain file size with any software and the result would be exactly the same each time, there'd be no point to the question, but even Vathraq realises that's not the case.

You remind me of the days when asking a question about converting audio to a lossy format would invariably result in a post similar to yours here, but these days pretty much everyone seems to "get it". I've got video discs here I've re-encoded several times. Using a newer codec, or to fix problems I'd not noticed before etc. Or maybe because I've converted enough video now to know I could do a better job. My point is, the converted video is the copy I use for convenience. Whether it looks like crap or it's a re-encoding masterpiece, I watch the video I encode and the original discs effectively become the backup copy. And guess what...... are you sitting down...... my backup copies are always, without exception, of the highest quality.

[hello_hello]

Anything you all would add to the list or that should get most of my encoding done?Vathraq

I'd try to re-encode only once if possible. Do you need a Bluray/DVD copy or is the ultimate goal a copy for a portable device?
In a perfect world if you wanted two different copies you'd encode the original twice so each one has only a single generation of quality loss, although having said that, for a while I was re-encoding Bluray video to (mostly) 720p while at the same time making a standard definition AVI for the DVD player and portable devices, and after a few tests it became obvious that you loose so much by the time you're down to a SD AVI it doesn't really matter if it's taken from the original or if it's a re-encode of the encode. It still looks the same. If you're aiming for a maximum quality portable copy though....

As all the hardware players in this house play MP4/MKV I don't bother with disc formats. I just convert and save the output as an MKV. For that I aim for maximum quality at minimum file size, which generally means using the lowest resolution possible without being able to see a loss of picture detail and then I re-encode with the x264 encoder with a fairly transparent quality setting. The file sizes vary a lot but as a general rule the quality is high without the file sizes being larger than they need to be.
The MP4/MKV encodes play using any of the portable devices in this house now, including my smart phone, so I rarely make a "portable" copy these days. If I did it'd simply be because transferring large files to a portable device can be painfully slow or to increase the number of files it'll hold, but for me they'd be "throw away" copies so I wouldn't be very fussed about the quality. Viewing high definition on tiny screens seems relatively pointless to me.

I don't know why you should have sync problems with MakeMKV. I don't use it myself but it's not a playback problem is it? The MKVs it produces are out of sync regardless of the playback device being used?

[Vathraq]

I do not have a media player for the tv. Just a blu ray player and a television, but have quite a few mobile devices. I want to preserve the originals and play the copies in the player. Likewise the smaller mp4 for mobile devices. When the family takes that trip out of country to see the inlaws its 24 hours in an airplane or airport. Lots of choice on the mobile devices with numerous ways to charge them just makes it easier. I do hope to move from the blu ray player to some sort of media center in the future. That will be yet another reason to rip the disk. I'll probably try and decrease the file size for that also.

To be clear the mkv's play fine when checked with vlc. When I tried encoding them to dvd5 structure with AVStoDVD is when I saw a sync problem. Have not converted anything for the mobile devices yet, but plan to for quite a few titles.

I had previously been importing videos from the mobile devices into Windows Movie Maker to edit and encode to DVD5. Figured there is probably a better way.

Thanks ,
Vathraq

[_MrC_]

If you get sync issues with A2D, you should post the problems details and project log file in the A2D support thread (see signature). We can find out together how to fix them.



Bye

[hello_hello]

If the Bluray player doesn't have the ability to play video via USB, you can buy media players fairly cheaply these days that'll play just about anything. From something like the player Western Digital sells with a built in hard drive to small devices with a USB input and HDMI/Composite outputs. I can't recommend anything in particular as I don't use one, but there's lots out there. Maybe even look to see what's being sold on eBay. Many portable devices also have a HDMI out (or a USB port that can be used as one..... I'm having a brain dead moment and can't think what they're called) so they can double as media players, but transferring the video to them might be somewhat of a hassle.

Are you certain your Bluray player can't play MP4/MKV files if you burn them to disc? Before USB inputs became the norm, that's how they did it (assuming they could).

h264 has a system of profiles and levels to use when encoding, and devices should clearly state (or at least give you a fair idea) what they support. Aside from Apple devices which I think are still limited to stereo AAC unless you use a third partly player, the type of audio supported should also be stated.
There's a list of the levels here and what each supports in respect to resolution and frame rate etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Levels

These days, except for the lower end of the portable device scale, High Profile Level 4.1 seems to be a de-facto standard. TVs with built in media players and USB Bluray players pretty much all play it, as far as I know the newer ipads support it, and even my two year old phone happily plays it, but if you looked at the devices you currently use you could encode using a profile and level that'll keep the "lowest common denominator" device happy (as long as it's not overly restrictive) and all your other devices should play the encoded video too.

I only mention all that in case a bit of planning and a small investment can save you work re-encoding multiple times. I'd be trying to aim for a high quality copy and I'd use it as the master for creating additional copies for portable devices and not fuss about them too much. You could re-encode them with quite fast encoder settings at a reduced resolution (if need be) and for a small screen they'd no doubt look fine.

To be clear the mkv's play fine when checked with vlc. Its not until I tried encoding them to dvd with AVStoDVD that I saw a sync problem.

It's probably an Avisynth decoding issue. mpeg2 video in MKVs can sometimes be problematic when re-encoding. It's a long story but..... ideally you could try ripping with something that keeps the original DVD format and that should convert okay. Maybe something like DVDShrink. It won't handle some of the newer copy protections but if it can rip a disc you can tell it to "shrink" as it rips. The quality isn't as good as re-encoding (DVD Shrink transcodes which is different) although that can also depend on how much shrinking it needs to do. Often when you rip a DVD if you don't include the menus or extras or unnecessary audio, what's left will fit on a DVD5 disc without re-encoding. Or you can use DVDShrink for ripping and if it's configured for a large target size (ie DVD9 or larger) it'll just rip without shrinking anyway.

For your existing MKVs you could try opening one with TSMuxer and re-saving it as a TS file then use the TS file for re-encoding and that might be more successful, although if MakeMKV did something odd when it ripped it mightn't change anything. You can only try.

[Kerry56]

Kerry56 thank you for the recommendations and the instructions. I have successfully imported 2 mkv's and correctly output the DVD5 structure. The video and audio are synced and look/sound good. Now just some work left for IMGBurn to take care of. I am going to try the batch tool for several videos tonight.

Yes, just taking a normal DVD and backing up to a TYG03 DVD5 +R. Do you just stick with HCenc or is there a place to download free versions of Cinemacraft Encoder and Canopus ProCoder? My searches seem to come up with about $60 for the basic version of each.

Any suggestions on encoding an MP4 from a cell phone, camera, etc to DVD5?

Seems if I want to put those backups on mobile devices etc. Vidcoder would be the tool.

So here is my list of tools it seems from what I have seen so far.

MakeMKV
BD Rebuilder
DVD Rebuilder
Vidcoder

Extra Tools

IMGBurn
Mediainfo

Anything you all would add to the list or that should get most of my encoding done?

Thanks,
Vathraq

Glad you got things working well going from MKV to DVD-5.

Despite your problems with AVStoDVD, it would still be my first choice when converting an MP4 file taken from your cell phone or camera to DVD-video. You can also do this with BD Rebuilder.

Regarding the choices of encoders in DVD Rebuilder, I'd stick with HCenc. It really is a very good quality mpeg2 encoder. You will get much better results with DVD Rebuilder compared to DVDShrink, but you do have to start with unencrypted DVD-video when using DVD Rebuilder. If you need a free decrypter for DVD's, you might look at the TDMore Free DVD Copy program.

There are lots of other tools to consider, most of them free, but for conversions, your list will serve you well. If you run into a specific problem, the folks in here will be able to steer you to the right tool/solution.

[Vathraq]

I am researching how to normalize audio if I use BD Rebuilder to import the video files. I am also trying to figure out whats the easiest way to add subtitles.

Found this thread.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/277950-How-to-add-new-subtitles-to-an-existing-DVD

Not sure it's the easiest way to go about it in the scenarios we are talking about. Anyway.

Thanks,
Vathraq

[Vathraq]

Found The DRC setting in BD Rebuilder. Curious how it works. Guess, I will just have to test it. Need to figure out the subtitles now.

Thanks,
Vathraq

[Kerry56]

If you rip your movies with MakeMKV and output to MKV format, it is easy to add subtitles using mkvmergeGUI (part of MKVToolnix). Then convert to DVD-video using the other tools discussed in this thread if that is your intended target. You will lose the original menus from the discs doing this of course.

If you are starting with decrypted DVD-video, and don't care about any menu it currently has, you can import it into AVStoDVD and add subtitles there. AVStoDVD won't re-encode compliant streams (check the video and audio preferences to make sure), so the audio and video should just pass through unless you have the output set to a smaller size than the original. You can add the subtitle by right clicking on the video once it shows up in the main window of AVStoDVD.

[pepegot1]

A one shot deal, but it costs - VideoRedo. Simple, quick and efficient.

[usually_quiet]

A one shot deal, but it costs - VideoRedo. Simple, quick and efficient.

Not in the OP's case.

Also there are two Video ReDo consumer products, VideoReDo Plus and VideoReDo TVSuite H.264. Neither can decrypt Blu-Ray discs or DVDs. VideoReDo Plus is just an MPEG-2 editor. VideoReDo TVSuite H.264 can author DVDs as well as edit.

I would not recommend VideoReDo TVSuite H.264 for anyone who wants subtitles, because VideoReDo TVSuite H.264 does not have any subtitle support, only closed caption support. ImgBurn is still the best burner around.

[sophisticles]

Ah...... so this would be the thread that inspired your latest nonsense poll, would it?

I tend to side with him on this issue, to me "backing up" means making a copy for safekeeping that is the same as the original. I can walk into a Staples and buy a 5tb USB3 external hard drive for $150, that means I can get 10tb of backup storage for $300+tax, I see no reason to transcode to a smaller format.

Yes this is a forum dedicated video issues, including transcoding and there are valid reasons for transcoding a video, such as playback on a portable device for use during travel or by the kids but not for "backing up". In the past I have done some consulting work for a content creation service and when we said "backup" that is exactly what was done, we would backup the masters to a massive array that was at 72tb and growing.

It doesn't make sense to "backup" to any format today when in a year or two we may likely have more efficient and higher quality codecs, like perhaps VP10, Daala or perhaps some wave based compression format.

[newpball]

Glad to read those quality conscious statements!

Frankly I am stunned how the few video hackers on this forum, those folks who indiscriminately cut resolution, transcode and degrade videos and even cut parts of videos because they don't like an aspect ratio get so much support over here.

[Vathraq]

I tried using AVStoDVD to add subtitles to the the dvd after encoding with bd rebuilder, but it gave me a 4 gig file of the first vob with subs. Not sure why just the one. If I use backup with MakeMKV it would preserve the subtitles and they would be included in the encode in BD Rebuilder, I assume. I already had some MKV with just movies only. No menus, no subs, and no extras. My wife wanted the subtitles back. I was just trying to do it without running the disk back through MakeMKV, then re-encoding with BD Rebuilder with the subs. Anyway, I will tst out AVStoDVD again since its already been encoded with BD Rebuilder.

Thanks,
Vathraq

[Kerry56]

When you import a DVD into AVStoDVD use the VTS_01_0.IFO file as input. Let it index the movie with DGIndex.

[usually_quiet]

Ah...... so this would be the thread that inspired your latest nonsense poll, would it?

I tend to side with him on this issue, to me "backing up" means making a copy for safekeeping that is the same as the original. I can walk into a Staples and buy a 5tb USB3 external hard drive for $150, that means I can get 10tb of backup storage for $300+tax, I see no reason to transcode to a smaller format.

Yes this is a forum dedicated video issues, including transcoding and there are valid reasons for transcoding a video, such as playback on a portable device for use during travel or by the kids but not for "backing up". In the past I have done some consulting work for a content creation service and when we said "backup" that is exactly what was done, we would backup the masters to a massive array that was at 72tb and growing.

It doesn't make sense to "backup" to any format today when in a year or two we may likely have more efficient and higher quality codecs, like perhaps VP10, Daala or perhaps some wave based compression format.

Why are you feeding a troll?

If you read Vathraq's explanation of what he is doing and why, you should understand he used the wrong term. He does not mean "back up" in the usual sense. He is not making digital copies as insurance in case something happens to the originals. He wants his original discs stored away for safekeeping and is making copies for his family to use.

[newpball]

He wants his original discs stored away for safekeeping and is making copies for his family to use.

So he buys Blu-ray movies, stores them away, and makes standard definition DVDs of it so his family can see the movies.....



Sure, that eh, makes total sense.

[sophisticles]

He wants his original discs stored away for safekeeping and is making copies for his family to use.

So he buys Blu-ray movies, stores them away, and makes standard definition DVDs of it so his family can see the movies.....



Sure, that eh, makes total sense.

Exactly, it's laughable. If he's that concerned about the original blu-rays then he should invest in a cheap BD burner and some cheap BD media and actually make a copy for his family, it will be faster and still have the original quality.

Honestly, threads like this and most of the responses just don't make much sense.

[hello_hello]

I see no reason to transcode to a smaller format......

Yes this is a forum dedicated video issues, including transcoding and there are valid reasons for transcoding a video....

Okay, which is it?

It doesn't make sense to "backup" to any format today when in a year or two we may likely have more efficient and higher quality codecs, like perhaps VP10, Daala or perhaps some wave based compression format.

Aside for the "valid reasons for transcoding a video" you referred to?
Does it really make sense for most people to have a "convenience" copy, one that's often almost full quality at a much smaller file size, a fully sanctioned sophisticles, no quality loss backup copy, and an original copy, when the original copy can double as a backup? We all know it's possible to create zero quality loss backups but it doesn't negate the point I was making. Do people generally re-encode their Bluray/DVD collection and throw the original discs away?
That's the thing when making a "backup" copy, or a "convenience" copy, or a "whatever you want to call it" copy, as long as you still have the original doubling as a full quality backup, you can always make another copy from it using a more efficient, higher quality codec at a later date.

Glad to read those quality conscious statements!

Frankly I am stunned how the few video hackers on this forum, those folks who indiscriminately cut resolution, transcode and degrade videos and even cut parts of videos because they don't like an aspect ratio get so much support over here.

Who here "indiscriminately" does anything? You're just putting words into other peoples mouths to give yourself something to argue about.

He wants his original discs stored away for safekeeping and is making copies for his family to use.

So he buys Blu-ray movies, stores them away, and makes standard definition DVDs of it so his family can see the movies.....

He quite clearly said in the opening post he's "backing up" Bluray to Bluray and DVD to DVD, so why are you making stuff up?

[Kerry56]

Oh good grief people. Who gives a shit what you think of the OP's intended target and use of HIS movie? He has asked specific questions and if you do not want to answer him, stay out of the thread. The name of the site is Videohelp, and if you don't want to help in this particular case, there is no reason for you to butt in. (not directed at you hello_hello)

His reasons for conversions are just that...his reasons. He doesn't have to explain himself to you snobs. So go hold your noses up in the air somewhere else.

[Cornucopia]

He wants his original discs stored away for safekeeping and is making copies for his family to use.

So he buys Blu-ray movies, stores them away, and makes standard definition DVDs of it so his family can see the movies.....



Sure, that eh, makes total sense.

Actually, from a long-term investment strategy it makes perfect sense: If he can't afford shelling out BD players for everybody, and doesn't want to spend the inordinate amount of time encoding HD for gen media player use (as everyone here should KNOW that encoding HD takes much longer than encoding SD), and he doesn't want to have to buy a DVD now and then go out and buy the BD again a few years later when everybody has finally gotten up to HD speed, this is the best option.

You guys sure have short-sighted, tunnel-vision, my-way-or-the-highway attitudes. There's a phrase: "putting yourself in another man's shoes" - try it sometime. There's no need to insult, even by way of "cutesy, picture- & emoji-laden" snarky asides.
Sure, every veteran here knows you ought to "retain the highest quality possible given the circumstances", but what's possible and what the circumstances are will be different for different people and their different life priorities. If they are doing something that would ultimately drastically deteriorate their experience, given their situation, there's no problem with polite education of how things work (or don't) or what discerning eyes/ears would notice, without all the over-hyped vitriolic condescension.

Scott

[Vathraq]

It was not my intention to ruffle any flowers. Only reason I am using dvd is I have a quite a few Taiyo Yuden DVD5+R. Since I already own these, its much more economical to use them versus buying new media. The other conversions just to allow me to put them on mobile devices. Its interesting that some people do not have to consider cost. My TY DVD cost me 39 cents a disk while a Verb Blu Ray cost $1.24 a disk. At 3 times the cost for a blu ray I will use up the DVD5's I already own.

Thank You all for your help. I have managed to convert/re-encode/transcode the titles I wanted and managed to add a few subtitles for my wife, whose first language is not English.

Thanks Again,
Vathraq

[addseo1115]

Your all posts are useful for me.
Thanks for posting the interesting contents here.
nice to be here.