Win8.1 Wireless Problems

[bevills1]

In my Win8.1 Pro it shows no connections available if I click Connect/Disconnect in Control Panel/Network and Sharing under Change Adapter Settings after I install wireless PCIE adapters. Driver properties in Device Manager show "The device is working properly." Trouble shooting in Windows indicates there may be a problem with the driver, but drivers have been updated that are supposed to work with Win8.1. Strange thing is the adapter is identified with no problem and works fine if a fresh install of Windows 8.1Pro with the card installed, and the wireless connection is detected and works perfectly. The problem with that solution is all apps will need to be reinstalled which is time consuming. I've tried 5 different adapters that are reported to work with Win8.1 (1 with RALink chipset, 2 with Aetheros chipset and 2 with RealTech chipset) all with the same problem. BTW my system is dual boot with WinXP, and all 5 adapters install and work normally in WinXP. Does anybody know a solution for this problem?

Edit: Forgot to mention tech support for current Rosewill card told me there should be a "Manage Wireless" tab in Control Panel/Networki and Sharing, but there is none in my initial Win8.1 install that's about 6 months old now. I noticed during recent fresh install I was prompted to enter during setup info for a Microsoft Account where upon it then asked to choose which wireless network to connect to, and I entered my hotmail account info. However, I think I may have skipped the step to enter Microsoft Account info in my initial install. WinXP has option to add wireless networks, but I find no such option anywhere in current Win8.1 install which leads me to suspect it may be due to the missing "Manage Wireless" tab. Could this be the reason for no "Manage Wireless" tab and inability to connect wirelessly for current Win8.1 install? If it is the cause, is there a way to fix the missing tab in current install, or is fresh install the only way to fix this problem?

[nic2k4]

You don't mention what type of connection you were using before installing the WiFi card. For 5 different cards to behave the same I would suspect that the original connection type is still active and used by default, though on its own that wouldn't explain why you don't see any SSID's. That could be due to the card's WiFi radio being turned off (power saving?). If you installed the drivers that came with the card it probably installed a separate utility that you should use to connect and configure the card (and also turn the radio on/off). If your router has a WPS button you can use that to connect to your network. The soft button in Windows looks like this. Push the button on the router then on the adapter.

Check out this MS tutorial on fixing wireless connection issues.

[bevills1]

Original connection was ethernet. The utility that came with the adapter shows device not ready even after I enter SSID and password into profile and click activate, and it shows Radio is On. I find no WPS button in the router. The first step in the MS tutorial says view and connect to wireless networks, but I see only no connections available.

[Nelson37]

Physically remove PCI card. Uninstall ALL Wireless adapter software. Manually delete ALL related directories. Reboot. Run a registry cleaner, like CCleaner. Verify ALL wireless adapter software and utilities removed. Shut down, install card. Boot.

Two options next. One, allow Win 8.1 to recognize card and install software. Test. If failure, use option two.

Option two is, Cancel windows driver installation. Install software drivers first, then utilities, from NEW download, NOT what you have used so far. Get the very latest drivers, and also the previous versioin, or two. If failure, repeat removal steps and try again with different driver version.

Verify card is fully seated in slot, also that screw is not torqueing it partially out. If installed, use card utility to verify available networks. If card software says device not ready, that is a serious problem. IMPORTANT - Did this message occur on only one card, or more than one? One card only = possible bad card, more than one adapter, then there is something else going on. Try a different slot and use bright light and magnification if necessary to confirm no debris or obstruction or bent pins in existing slot.

"Device not ready" does not mean it can't find a network, it means that the system is not properly detecting that the card is basically operational.

[Bjs]

supposed to work with Win8.1

You have a 60 / 40 chance they will.

The drivers supplied by the manufacturer are the only one's trusted to work, even then not bug free

Upgrading even from trusted sources like ms can cause problems ... and prefer users use as a last resort before reinstalling an os.

Run through this guide for win 8 wifi issues.

After this it's either the os (8.1) fault or wifi adapter / driver not complaint.

Login to router and check wifi sig is being broadcasted ... check for additional wifi sources (neighbors etc) ... if cross over channels found change you broadcast channel to other (win8 gets confused where 2 or more wifi use same channel) ... to fix this you must delete all wifi connections win8 system has discovered and or connected to.

[nic2k4]

The first step in the MS tutorial says view and connect to wireless networks, but I see only no connections available.

I meant to specify to jump to step 2, but I figured going through the whole thing would be better. Anyway, the intro mentions to check your connection after each steps, once you get connected you're done else go to the next step.

If the utility says the adapter is not ready and device manager shows the card is there with no red or yellow marks, you have to assume the card is working and the reason the utility complains is that Windows has taken over management of wireless networks. In win 8 you'll find the wireless connection in the charms bar, it looks like signal strength bars.

What's your router? Pretty much every router that came out in the last 7 years has a WPS button.

[bevills1]

Physically remove PCI card. Uninstall ALL Wireless adapter software. Manually delete ALL related directories. Reboot. Run a registry cleaner, like CCleaner. Verify ALL wireless adapter software and utilities removed. Shut down, install card. Boot.

Two options next. One, allow Win 8.1 to recognize card and install software. Test. If failure, use option two.

Option two is, Cancel windows driver installation. Install software drivers first, then utilities, from NEW download, NOT what you have used so far. Get the very latest drivers, and also the previous versioin, or two. If failure, repeat removal steps and try again with different driver version.

Verify card is fully seated in slot, also that screw is not torqueing it partially out. If installed, use card utility to verify available networks. If card software says device not ready, that is a serious problem. IMPORTANT - Did this message occur on only one card, or more than one? One card only = possible bad card, more than one adapter, then there is something else going on. Try a different slot and use bright light and magnification if necessary to confirm no debris or obstruction or bent pins in existing slot.

"Device not ready" does not mean it can't find a network, it means that the system is not properly detecting that the card is basically operational.

The card shows in Device Manager as soon as Windows is started after installing the card and shows the device is working properly. I've tried installing manufacturer's drivers as well as trying a different PCIe slot with same results. I also tried doing a fresh Win8.1 install without the card in the PC and then install the card, and this results in the exact same problems. The card works fine if I do fresh install with the card already installed, and it works in WinXP when I tried that which means there's nothing wrong with the card.

The router is a Trrendnet TEW-432BRP which came out about 2005 if memory serves. Tech support for the card told me I'm missing the "Manage Wireless" icon in Windows, and I've seen a "Connect to Wireless Network" tab under Network and Sharing in Control Panel in some Google searches which I'm missing in my Win8.1 for some reason. I think recreating that function in Windows would be the solution, but I can find nothing relating to doing that.

[Nelson37]

The Device Manager indicator is not AT ALL reliable. Tells you there is a device physically present and electrically active, but nothing about actual functionality. Is the card specifically identified here, with correct model and/or chipset numbers? Be VERY alert for a slight variation here in model or chipset number, version number, anything at all.

Sorry I mis-read some of your original post the first time and had something else on my mind.

The missing function tab is a key, but not re-creating it, but WHY is it not there. Is this tab present on a fresh install with the card already physically in the system? When the card is functional in Win 8.1, do you see this tab?

Works in XP, works on fresh install with card already physically installed. Does NOT work on fresh OS install with card physically installed afterwards. Interesting.

Is ANY other software installed, anything of any kind, in either fresh OS install scenario? Updates, is the system connected to the Internet, AV, other drivers or hardware, USB items connected, anything? There are few differences between a driver install during OS install, and one done very shortly thereafter.

Something is causing an incomplete install. My suspicion would be a MS update, or possibly AV software. I have seen particular updates cause something very similar. BUT, not with 5 different cards with three different chipsets. My initial suspicion was that the multiple driver sets were conflicting. Was the fresh install scenario the same with the other cards?

The router and WPS crap is not even in the picture yet, though maybe later. You just want to detect an SSID to indicate a working radio. Is the router set to not broadcast the SSID, by any chance? Not a big problem, just a complication. Connection could fail due to an encryption problem. For diagnostic purposes, I usually turn SSID broadcast on and ALL encryption OFF, temporarily and for testing. Simplify the scenario.

In either case, describe if the cards software from the mfgr is installed, or not, and specify if both working and non-working scenarios are the same.

[bevills1]

The backup image of the initial install with all apps is currently restored, and I didn't know to check for that tab for the fresh install as I didn't find it from my Google search until after the backup image was restored. I'll have to repeat the fresh install to check for the tab.

Initial install was 6 months ago, and updates for the 6 month period were installed as well as MS Word, Quickbooks, antivirus, firewall and a few other apps. Problems are same whether SSID broadcast is on or off.

In the case of the existing initial install I tried with mfgr software installed and uninstalled it. The mfgr software doesn't work at all as all its tabs are greyed out and non functional. With mfgr uninstalled a wifi tab shows under "Change Adapter SettingsP in Control Panel/Netwrok and Sharing, and it can be disabled or enabled but shows no connections available when Connect/Disconnect is clicked.

In the case of the fresh install I never tried the mfgr software because networks are immediately detected on first boot to Windows, and all that's needed is to select the SSID for my router and select its encryption type and enter pass phrase. Everything simply works as it should with no problems and little effort required.

I'm wondering if omitting the creation of Microsoft Account during initial Windows install could have caused this problem if I did omit that step. I really can't recall if I omitted that step or not since it was 6 months ago, but I think it may have been omitted. If that might be the cause of this problem, it's a very dumb way for Microsoft to engineer Windows setup to enable and configure wifi in that fashion and then make it impossible post Windows install if no Microsoft Account was entered during Windows setup.

[Nelson37]

OK. When it worked, on the fresh install, SSID broadcast was ON, right? It showed the network by name? Then, you had to SELECT the encryption type? This should have been automatically detected.

I very emphatically recommend turning ON SSID broadcast, and disabling ALL encryption. I have seen MANY occasions where the card and router are not compatible on encryption types, or terminology. Remove several complications to the connection for testing purposes. You can change it back later. Definitely and absolutely these settings can mask or prevent detection of an otherwise working card.

I ever use the MS Account unless customer requested and have never had a problem with wireless card detection and driver install. SFAIK this only affects the login process and has no bearing whatsoever on hardware detection and driver install. Complete red herring and waste of time, IMO.

The fresh install, with Garden-Variety MS drivers and software works, with hardware present prior to OS install.

What doesn't work is hardware placement into an existing system and OS.

Now, an OS with 5 different similar card installs, complete with drivers and utilities, failing? Yep, highly increased odds on that one. All this is gone on the fresh install.

Either in the Windows software or the Mfgr's software there is a tab or checkbox to allow the alternate program to be functional. Sometimes this simply doesn't work, or it works with a registry tweak but not thru the software. When the Mfgr's software appears non-functional, and especially when it says "Device not ready", highly unlikely the hardware will do anything at all.

You also stated earlier that while a fresh OS install with the card already physically installed works, you did a fresh OS install, with card removed, then installed the card and it still failed. What I am attempting to determine is the shortest, least convoluted distance between the two points of what DOES work, and what DOES NOT. Format a drive, install 8.1, and DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE, shut down, physically install card, reboot, and IT FAILS? I don't think so. I think AV software was installed, or a hard-line Ethernet cable allowed a Windows update, or something else was done. I think this because there is no reason it should fail if none of these things was present. The detection and install process is the same, IF repeat IF no changes happen to the system. This is the simplest, most basic, and easily reproducible test between the working and the non-working. The answer to the problem will be found in this area.

It is worth noting that in the working condition, SSID broadcast was apparently ON, and it is currently OFF. That would be a change in the environment. Go back to what is KNOWN GOOD, and do NOT mess with it until the main problem is resolved. Do NOT introduce a complication to the Wifi connection which is known to cause some problems and prevent detection of others, until you have the problem resolved. To be blunt, that is stupid. Stupid annoys me.

As an illustration of possible problems, I once had a customer router that had a WPA/WPA2 setting, and a card with both WPA and WPA2 listed separately. Neither worked, had to use WEP on both, the card couldn't deal with multiple choice. Both separate settings worked with a different test router.

[bevills1]

The SSID broadcast was actually turned off during fresh install while card was physically installed, and I didn't try turning it on until after the fresh install without the card installed followed by the backup image being restored. I had SSID turned off initially because I thought it's more secure that way. Once I installed a wifi adapter in a WinXP machine that would detect the connection only if SSID broadcast is on and would fail if SSID broadcast was off. You're correct about Windows setup detecting encryption type, and all that was needed was to enter pass phrase.

Since Win8 and Win8.1 are closely related, I wonder if Windows setup to install the OS might begin as Win8 and update to Win8.1 during the setup process, and perhaps the network setup and recognition of the connection is completed in a Win8 environment prior to update to Win8.1 by completion of install. What brings this possibility to mind is that the Windows setup screen actually shows "Windows 8" but the system shows Win8.1 on completion of the install. That could explain the difference in behavior which would likely mean the wifi card drivers are actually Win8 drivers that somehow continue to work after Win8.1 setup is complete. Could this be the possible difference and the reason Windows fresh install with card physically in place works but fails when card is not physically in place during Windows install?

[Nelson37]

It is very difficult to diagnose a situation remotely when I am given inaccurate information to work with. You clearly indicated SSID broadcast was on, and that you had to specify encryption type. This was apparently not true. What else do I have to guess about, and waste my time contemplating non-applicable scenarios?

The 8 to 8.1 Scenario is possible, but more likely the install disk is actually 8.1 to start. I do believe that an MS Windows update is quite probably the cause. As stated earlier, I believe this because I have seen a similar scenario, and also because an update is one of the very few changes that is probable during the most limited and direct failure scenario. The disk should be marked, most display screens are generic and don't list version numbers. Look for SP1 or Service Pack 1 on the disk, but this is not really important.

Now, I asked before, and the first paragraph makes it much, much more obvious that I need to ask again, and demand some specific information. I dislike using all caps, but if you were standing right in front of me I would be speaking very loudly. During the fresh install, both with and without card physically installed, was the PC connected to the internet by hard line, or in any other way? The update scenario can be ABSOLUTELY, CATEGORICALLY ELIMINATED by repeating the process, both with and without the card physically installed, BOTH WAYS because I need to VERIFY that the card FREAKING WORKS in the first place. UNPLUG THE FREAKING ROUTER AND THE FREAKING MODEM so that there is NO POSSIBLE FREAKING WAY any updates can happen. Also, DO NOT INSTALL ANY OTHER SOFTWARE, DON'T PLUG IN A PRINTER OR USB STICK, DO NOT MOVE THE PC, DON'T FREAKING ! BREATHE ! on it, AFTER verifying the card works with a fresh install with card physically installed, shut down, remove card, reboot, format and install windows, shutdown, install card, reboot, test. If card is basically recognized, then turn on ROUTER ONLY with internet outside line physically removed. Wireless test only, and the FREAKING SSID better be on and all encryption off.

There are some other possibilities, and I still need to know detail about FIVE DIFFERENT card that also apparently failed in some way, which is, to put it mildly, EXTREMELY FREAKING UNLIKELY. Unfortunately, I don't think you can handle that many questions and you don't seem able to dispense useful, accurate information when it is slightly complex, so we will stick with the format and re-install scenario, varying ONLY the physical install and MS Update elements of the testing environment.

Make an effort to be clear, precise, and above all accurate in your feedback. When it gets to the point where if you said "The sky is blue", I feel a need to stick my head out the window and look up in order to verify, any further attempt to remotely diagnose your problem becomes a waste of time, and such things tend to make me mildly annoyed.

[bevills1]

I didn't say whether SSID broadcast was on or off until you posed the question "OK. When it worked, on the fresh install, SSID broadcast was ON, right?" in your reply #10 which I answered in my reply #11, but my memory did fail me regarding encryption type. My memory isn't a sharp as it used to be, and it's difficult to recall every detail of all the steps I've tried to fix the problems. In my reply #3 I stated "Original connection was ethernet" which means that's the way I connected to the internet originally. The PC is now moved to another room, and I couldn't connect to the router now without moving it back to router location.

I had already planned to repeat the fresh install without the card in the PC, power off the PC after OS install, insert the card and power on again. That was done this morning resulting in the card working properly this time. This time I did have to select the encryption type and enter pass phrase, but it works as it should after doing that. I have no clue why it failed on the first fresh install done in the same manner.

This seems to indicate possible update problem as you suggest, and I tried uninstalling all Windows updates except for 8 that wouldn't uninstall for some reason. That probably means 1 or more of the uninstallable updates is the problem, or an installed app is the problem. Either way looks like I'm relegated to doing the fresh install and install all apps anew. Why would Microsoft design its OS in such an asinine way? I have a second PC currently connected to the router via ethernet, and I've no doubt I'd need to start from fresh install if I ever want to use it via wireless connection.

[Nelson37]

In your first five words, you state "showed no connection", which indicates SSID was expected to be on. Later in that post you state networks WERE detected with a fresh OS install, indicating SSID was ON. In your second post you state you entered in the SSID manually, indicating that it was turned off on the router. This was at the same time you effed up on whether or not you had to specify the encryption type. In case you lost count, that is three times before I posted at all. If you do not clearly remember a detail, say so. Wrong guesses are FAR WORSE than no information at all.

Do a batch of MS updates, but do them manually or in small batches, testing functionality at each point. Change nothing else. Best diagnostic procedure would require removing encryption at the router, but I think telling you to do something 5 or so times is enough, plus at this point is the absolute rule to minimize changes. However, if it fails after updates, then turn off the damn encryption like I told you and test, MAKE NO OTHER CHANGES, and don't yet install any applications. Having to specify the encryption type is an indication of an absolute issue. It it works, no big issue, but then, you don't have one of those, do you?

At this point I would bet money that you have either an SSID problem, OR a failing router, OR a compability issue. Also that at a minimum, at least 3 and probably all 5 cards were and are perfectly functional. If I had this box in my hands, I would guarantee I could determine the problem and the best solution within an hour or there would be no charge for my professional services. Would even bet a small amount of cash against the bill on less than 15 minutes. The very first action I would take would be to disable all encryption at the router, and make certain SSID broadcast is on, and during initial testing, reboot the router several times and check to make certain these settings are maintained, because yes, they can change on their own with no user input. Rare, but so is your problem. Would test it on my router at the same time.

Might even bet a third of my bill on 5 minutes after getting the PC setup and turned on. Would need the existing OS + apps image on the drive.
It is just not possible for five straight cards to fail so that means it is either the router and/or its settings, or something the stupid human is doing.
But then, I also have to consider whether or not the "5 failed cards" information was remembered accurately. Have actually pretty much dismissed it, betting on stupid human, or router, or a combination of the two.

FWIW, wired Ethernet, and wireless Ethernet, are both referred to as Ethernet, so, if a specific question is asked as to whether a connection is wired, or wireless, an answer of "ethernet" is remarkably un-informative.

Do you happen to be using Avast anti-virus, or Norton, and have you checked the network card driver section for any entries related to either, or similar, program entries? If so, uninstall the AV program. Easy to re-install and takes little time.

[bevills1]

Your statement " Later in that post you state networks WERE detected with a fresh OS install, indicating SSID was ON" is not correct. Networks were detected with SSID OFF and always have been in WinXP and other Windows versions I've used including Win8.1 fresh install.

Further testing discovered booting to Windows install disk, selecting repair and choose "Reset PC" also results in the adapter working properly, However, "Reset PC" also results in need to reinstall all apps. Then I proceeded to install all apps after fresh install but do no Windows updates at that time to be sure if updates was the cause of problems, and the problem was still present after all apps were installed.

This lead me to conclude the problem has to be due to 1 or more of the apps or 1 of the processes started by an app at Windows startup. By running msconfig all startup processes were stopped 1 by 1 to see if that could be the cause, but the problem persisted after all apps startup processes were disabled. This can only mean 1 of the apps is the root of problems and not just its startup processes, and I began uninstalling apps 1 at a time to determine the culprit. The problem persisted after Avast anti-virus was installed. Next Zonealarm was uninstalled, and bingo! Wireless was automatically detected by Windows, and all need be done was to enter pass phrase for the network to connect to the internet. Then Zonealarm was reinstalled, and everything works as it should. You'd think the wireless adapter makers would put something about this issue in their install instructions or that their tech support would at least be aware of it, but they seem to be oblivious to the issue and how to fix it.

To some this may seem like a lot of effort and that it may be easier to just do fresh install and start anew, but I needed to find the cause and fix so I could create a backup image that will work after it's restored when it's needed. Now I can restore an image, uninstall Zonealarm, get wireless setup, reinstall Zonealarm and be done. This requires much less time than doing fresh install or PC Reset and reinstall all apps and Windows update. I hope someone else may find this info helpful for those who experience similar problems.

[Nelson37]

i would ask for your explanation of exactly how YOUR wireless network was detected with YOUR SSID turned off, but, frankly, I no longer give a crap.

For others who also do not understand how SSID works, if broadcast is OFF on the router, the network will not be detected. Other networks in the area might, but yours won't. That is why this is sometimes used as a security measure.

Your failure scenario of card physical install after fresh OS install was apparently incorrect, you either screwed up, installed zonealarm at that time, or had SSID off, regardless, you were unable to re-create this effect, as you did something different and failed to mention it. I specifically and clearly asked for details of additional software installed at that time. Nobody with the brains god gave a walnut would install a finicky firewall program at that time in such a situation.

If the future, I will waste no further time on someone who is unable to follow directions, or adequately describe exactly what they have done, or answer simple questions. Simply too frustrating and life is too short. I have better things to do and this exchange was entirely worthless to me, due to inaccurate, incomplete, and misleading statements from the OP.

Congratulations, you've made the list.

[nic2k4]

Just to clarify, even when SSID broadcast is disabled the station still shows up in the list of wireless networks although the name is blank; this is true with Windows and Android (my memory is fuzzy on OSx and IOS). No dis Nelson37, in fact kudos on your attempt at solving his problem. The worst part is that had he gone through the guide you posted, the last step is to disable the AV! Zonealarm has always been a bugger for doing that to new network connections, including wired. It used to be a nice firewall, but when they started messing with the interface and dumbed it down it lost its advantage over the competition.

[bevills1]

Good to hear. I have neither appreciated nor enjoyed responding to FREAKING replies anyway. The network was detected with SSID turned off as it always has been, exactly as nic2k4 states in reply #17.

[Nelson37]

Nick, I disagree with what you are saying. SFAIK, and a few quick searches verify,in three different places, with screen shots of the list, the network does NOT show up on the list with SSID turned off. You have to manually connect. Possibly AFTER the manual connect it shows up, will have to set up a card and verify this. However, IIRC there is no identification whatsoever and no way to verify the specific net in the case of more than one unidentified net.

A network sniffer WILL detect a non-SSID broadcast wireless, but XP and Win7 do not indicate its existence. Multiple problems with SSID off also verified at three different places, this agrees with my experience. Have not verified detection behavior with Win 8, I just never, ever turn off SSID as it is a far more negative effect than positive. Nearly worthless as a security measure and known to cause connectivity problems with multiple failure scenarios. Bad idea, and stupid to insist on keeping it during a non-functional scenario.

In the case of someone unable to connect, possibly with five different cards, SSID confusion should be eliminated.

ZoneAlarm is a prog that I would Never, Ever install on a customer's box. It too often is a reported cause of non-functional networks, like Norton and most screensavers, I remove it on sight on any impaired PC.

[nic2k4]

However, IIRC there is no identification whatsoever and no way to verify the specific net in the case of more than one unidentified net.

This is what I was trying to get across. I always set SSID broadcast off, so I'm used to seeing unidentified stations in the list (Win8.x too). I'll grant you that this is not going to stop hackers, but it keeps opportunists looking elsewhere; not too many kids walking around with a Backtrack CD in their pocket. It's true it can be an issue with some devices. Mostly, I've seen problems with Android devices (older than KitKat) and embedded Linux. When there's a problem connecting SSID broadcast gets turned back on.

[Nelson37]

The encryption password is far, far harder to defeat, a hacker prepared to do that will have no problem whatsoever retrieving the SSID, this is, in fact, broadcast by the receiving PC once a successful connection has been achieved. A program like NetStumbler can detect routers with SSID turned off.

My primary point is this - There is NO repeat NO initial network detection, in the windows available wireless network list, of a router with SSID turned off. Zero, zip, zilch, nada. Once a connection has been established, which must be done manually, it does (IIIRC) show up on the list in some fashion, honestly not sure of this, but positive that on a freshly formatted PC, with no record of any previous connection to the same network, there would be no visible indication of any kind showing a router which had SSID turned off. Initial connection must be made by manually entering the SSID.

If such lack of detection is used as an indicator of card functionality, this would lead to a false positive. Or a false negative, depending on how you look at it.

To emphasize your last point, it is ridiculously stupid to leave SSID turned off in the case of a problematic connection. Problems I read included not just many tablets and phones, but also multiple reports of connection dropping, and failure to properly re-connect without substantial configuration changes. Generally not reliable in addition to not being effective security.

[bevills1]

Multiple problems with SSID off also verified at three different places, this agrees with my experience. Have not verified detection behavior with Win 8,

Well perhaps it's because of Win8.1 or either my wireless adapter or router configuration. but the network is detected with SSID off just as described in reply #17. After uninstalling Zonealarm, the network was detected with SSID off. I selected the connection for which SSID was blank (4 other networks with names appeared in the network list), clicked connect and was prompted to enter SSID name followed by prompt for its pass phrase. Maybe more study is due for Win8.1 network detection.

[Nelson37]

Is the sky blue where you're at?

[bevills1]

Sky is blue, SSID broadcast is off, and wireless connection is working perfectly. All is good!

[Nelson37]

Have verified the following in Windows 7:

The only way you see your router identified by name, with SSID off, is to either make an active connection to it since your last reboot, OR, create a profile and turn on "connect even if SSID broadcast is off". If you turn on that switch, there is no active detection of any kind, the network shows up with router power unplugged. Flip the switch on is all you need to do to "see" a network that does not exist.

If you create a profile and fail to correctly make one of three settings, to agree with the router, the connection will fail, with the single exception of all encryption settings being turned off on the router. Then it works even if the profile security is incorrect. You do have to correctly type the SSID.

If you do not turn on that switch, or do not make a profile, the network will identify as "other network". There is one other router in my area with SSID off, shows 2-3 bars on strength, and also one nearby that shows 5 bars just like my router but he has SSID on, so I can separate my router from his by name. However, the single "other network" shows only two bars with my SSID off and no profile. No way to separate it from my router by name or signal, in fact strength would seem to indicate this is NOT my router. Connection is successful with specifying only SSID and password. If my router failed or was unplugged there would be no way to know, as the only identifying factor on the displayed list already indicates my router is NOT detected, else "other network" would have 5 bars. The display of "other network" is the same whether my router exists or not, UNTIL I have made a successful connection.

If my 5-bar neighbor had his SSID off, I'm not sure if my login attempt would go to both either in succession or at the same time, or if purely by signal strength I might never be able to connect to my router in such a case. I will plug in a second router and attempt to determine by simple distance what will happen, though I have no sensitive meter to allow for variations in each router's broadcast strength.

SSID turned ON, and all encryption OFF, should be seen to obviously eliminate multiple possible failure modes. This is not an operational policy matter, but a straightforward simplification of the testing environment. A clear elimination of several area of human or situational error. A gathering of more information about what is actually happening and removal of guesswork.

With SSID on, you see your network by name, and positively identify that it is active. Also positively identify that your card is receiving data. Click on it and enter a password correctly and off you go. Turn off the security, and all you have to do is click your mouse. With SSID off, you have no positive indication of router functionality. Adding security adds three separate places for error rather than automatic detection, plus the possibility of password error.

This is how you do diagnostics. Before you decide that 5 separate wireless cards have somehow failed, you eliminate all the other possibilities. You make certain you can actually see YOUR network, you make CERTAIN a security setting is not the problem.

It takes seconds to make these changes, less time than installing even one wireless card.

As always, do it your own way. Others will be helping you from now on, I am tired of trying to solve problems and having people argue with me about it. I'll stick to the people who pay me to do this stuff as quickly and efficiently as possible.

It's been a good ride, for the most part.

[hello_hello]

Windows has included networks with SSID broadcast disabled in the list of available networks for as long as I can remember. I think they just appear as a hidden network (Win8) or an unnamed network (XP). Maybe not for Windows 7. I can't remember for sure as I haven't used it a lot. WinXP and Win8 both definitely display them.
http://www.linksys.com/us/support-article?articleNum=143051#a
http://www.linksys.com/us/support-article?articleNum=143051#b

There's a bit of an SSID storm in a teacup here if you ask me. The PC was obviously able to connect to the router using the correct SSID and password while running XP and a fresh install of Win8.1, so the router was obviously working properly even with SSID disabled. The problem was with an older install of Win8. Sure, enabling SSID broadcast temporarily might have helped find the problem, but it wasn't causing it as such. If only there'd been more listening and less ranting......

Many times I've posted something along the lines of "sorry I was wrong" after getting something wrong. It doesn't hurt and it can even be a little therapeutic. Why do some people find it impossible to say? It takes far less time than writing multi-paragraph posts attempting to deny it while complaining about anyone having the audacity to not always agree,

[bevills1]

Completely agree with reply #26. Even if I'd done everything suggested in reply #25, I still wouldn't have found the cause of the problem until I began uninstalling apps. My network is seen whether SSID broadcast is on or off, and the only extra step needed with SSID broadcast off is to check the box that says "Connect even if SSID broadcast is off" and enter the SSID for my router when prompted followed by pass phrase for the network as pointed out in reply #25. I've always known this and done things this way without problems until this instance which turned out to be caused by the Zonealarm firewall. The same problem would have occurred and solution would be the same even if SSID were on from the start.

BTW this is also the first time I have ever restored an image and not have it behave exactly like the original system from which the image was created, and I've been backing up and restoring systems since Ghost 2003. I enjoy learning and sharing knowledge to help others because I've been helped numerous times by others with equally good intentions, and I readily admit it if I make mistakes which I have made my share. I hope someone may find determining the cause and finding the resolution of this problem useful for any that experience this kind of wireless connection problem.