Best encoder for MPEG-2 with low bitrate?

[Observer]

Hi there, I'm a new guy to the whole encoding/authoring/burning scene, so please bear with me as I try to explain.

Currently I have a bunch of avi files. I would like to convert these files to PAL MPEG-2 ones (720x576 at 25 frames per second) and then burn them to DVDs. The only restriction I have however, is that I want the bitrate of these MPEG-2 files to be fairly low, around 1000kbps or so. That way I can keep the filesizes relatively small so I can burn a good amount of them on each disc.

Now my question is, what encoder program is best suited for this kind of job? I know a 1000kbps bitrate won't give me the greatest quality, but I still want to get a decent image quality and keep the pixelation/macroblocking on a reasonable level.

[videobruger]

1 Mb/s? Pretty low.

AVStoDVD will use HCEnc 2-pass VBR. Perhaps lower the resolution to half-D1/VCD

[Brad]

I know a 1000kbps bitrate won't give me the greatest quality, but I still want to get a decent image quality and keep the pixelation/macroblocking on a reasonable level.

Not going to happen. This is literally lower than VCD's bitrate of 1150kbps, and VCD has macroblocking all the time even with a tiny 352x288 frame size. You may counter that those are MPEG-1, but MPEG-2 doesn't have particularly greater efficiency, and even sub-DVD resolution XviD encodes tend to be blocky at 1Mbps.

[Cornucopia]

Direct answer: HCEnc or TMPGEnc.

Rest: not a good idea. Spreadout your clips to more discs.

Scott

[Skiller]

For low bitrates and interlaced videos, I would say Procoder is pretty impressive. It's the only encoder I know of that has the ability to do field based encodes (rather than always frame based with alternate scan) and it has an automatic mode where it switches between the two depending on the motion analysis. For very demanding interlaced videos this can be quite an advantage.
But you are starting with AVIs so the videos are most likely not interlaced and in that case I would recommend the usual encoders such as HCenc and (to a lesser degree at low bitrates) CCE SP3.

However, 1000 KBit/s is waaaay too low for anything but CIF resolution (352x288), and even that will have artefacts at that bitrate...

[Observer]

I see, thanks for all the replies so far. looks like my initial wish of 1000kbps was too unrealistic... Downloaded AVStoDVD now which has the HCenc encoder.

Now I'm willing to spread the files over more discs. In that case, what minimal bitrate is necessary for a MPEG-2 file to give good image quality? You see, the original .avi files (Xvid video with MP3-audio) all have low bitrates of around 900-950 and they looked okay. Not too much pixelation in those videos. I thought if you used the same rates in the MPEG-2 files you would retain the same level of quality. Guess I was wrong about that. Dang encoding is confusing...

[Skiller]

In that case, what minimal bitrate is necessary for a MPEG-2 file to give good image quality?

Depends on how well the content compresses and your expectations but I would say 2500-3000 KBit/s is the minimum average to be watchable.

[videobruger]

In that case, what minimal bitrate is necessary for a MPEG-2 file to give good image quality?

Impossible to answer. Too many factors involved.

My advice: Make some test with a small clip. In AVStoDVD select the output to Muxed MPEG. Edit the title and on the video tab manully select HCEnc 2pass VBR and manually select the average bitrate to say 2500 kpbs (3:30 hrs playtime) and 3500 kpbs (2:45) and see what you think.

[newpball]

Now I'm willing to spread the files over more discs. In that case, what minimal bitrate is necessary for a MPEG-2 file to give good image quality? You see, the original .avi files (Xvid video with MP3-audio) all have low bitrates of around 900-950 and they looked okay. Not too much pixelation in those videos. I thought if you used the same rates in the MPEG-2 files you would retain the same level of quality. Guess I was wrong about that. Dang encoding is confusing...

Does not work like that.

Having a overly compressed video is like having a bad photocopy. Now if you take a bad photocopy of an already bad photocopy things will get real bad.

Xvid is already a pretty crappy codec as it stands, 900-950k is already very low. I suggest you leave them avi and play them as such, things will only get worse if you try transcode it to another codec.

[El Heggunte]

You can (try to) reduce the damage of excessive compression by doing the following:

1) choose a low-bitrate quantization matrix;

2) use open GOPs;

3) use loooooong GOPs;

4) use 3 (or even 4) B-frames per P-frame;

The "tricks" listed above were somewhat useful when DVD discs and DVD burners were expensive...

[Brad]

Note that #3 and I think #4 will create files that don't adhere to the DVD-Video standard.

How much is your time worth? I would consider buying a media player that you can connect to your TV to play the AVI files directly.

[davexnet]

I gave this a go myself, difficult scenario, good, detailed sports footage from a live soccer game @ 720p,
encoded to DVD 16x9 720x576 @ 1800kbps. Even with a lower bitrate matrix (I tried HCLOW) it still looked like garbage.

I reviewed the HCenc log, average quants were up around 20. Seems to me, that's just too high.

Much depends on the source, and/or use a softer resizer.