Need advice on managing home videos (family stuff)

[zaerdy]

Hi there,

Like probably a lot of people, I shot some family moments with my sony camcorder, which result in a lot a .mts files on my computer. I'm seeking advice on the best way to 1) preserve it along with quality 2) edit them a little and join them in ~2 hours files (instead of a shitload of 10 to 360 seconds files).

I will tell you what I thought I should do but I would very like to hear about what you guys do with your family videos.

If it's possible, I would burn all unedited .mts files on blu-rays. It'll be both practical for playback and backup. What software should I use for this?

Secundo, I'd like to keep a digital copy of the files, wich I'd like to join in bunch of approximately 2hrs videos in a mlv container, with maybe a little bit of edititng. I'd use Premiere Pro for that matter. Quick question: If Itranscode (not sure it's the right term here) mts files into h264, would I loose quality?

Thank you and sorry for the loosy post. As you can see, I got a lot to learn.

Wainting for you advices

[Baldrick]

I would consider getting something like tmpgenc authoring works. Add all mts, cut away all "crap", make a basic menu and author/burn a blu-ray/avchd on good quality blu-ray media.

You could also use free tools like tsmuxer to just author mts files to blu-ray and burn with imgburn. But no simple editing.

And maybe store the most important videos online/cloud like dropbox.

You can remux mts to mkv with mkvmergegui without reconverting.

[newpball]

I'm seeking advice on the best way to 1) preserve it along with quality

Backup the files immediately on two different offline formats and store them separately in a dry and cool place.
Best storage format right now is M-DISK. So for instance use an M-DISK and a hard-drive or a high quality optical disk, avoid LTH!

2) edit them a little and join them in ~2 hours files (instead of a shitload of 10 to 360 seconds files).

Use the NLE of your preference: Adobe, Sony, Avid, also there are some freeware editors.

If it's possible, I would burn all unedited .mts files on blu-rays. It'll be both practical for playback and backup. What software should I use for this?

Family videos are priceless but no sane person can sit through your average unedited footage. You would have to take the considerable effort to edit your footage and make it presentable.

Quick question: If Itranscode (not sure it's the right term here) mts files into h264, would I loose quality?

Yes.

There are basically three video formats:

- Lossless formats
- Editing formats
- Delivery formats

Make sure your camera saves in an editing format (lossless is only possible with separate recording equipment and impractical and unnecessary in most cases). You MTS files are likely in AVCHD format Only transcode to a delivery format as the final step.

[LMotlow]

MTS is a delivery format. not a lossless or editing format. You need a smart-rendering, frame-specific editor for cut-and-join that has a decent encoder and encodes only the immediate GOP frame area around the cuts. TMPGenc Smart Renderer is one good smart-rendering choice for SD and HD. There are a scant few freebies around, but most cut only on key frames.

TMPGenc Authoring Works is a good authoring choice, but you're limited to the output formats if you want smart rendering. If your source video is not BluRay/AVCHD or DVD compliant, Authoring Works will re-encode the entire output to make it compliant with authored HD and SD formats. All such authoring programs will do that in order to make your video compliant for proper authored formats. TMPGEenc Smart Renderer has more flexible output choices, but not all of them will be 100% compliant for authored disc output. For example, if your source is 1080p and is not 23.976 film speed but is 59.94 or 50fps, that format is not BluRay compliant. For full HD BluRay in MPEG2, h264,or VC-1, the video must conform to GOP, audio, and other stipulations, and must be:
1920x1080, 29.97 or 25 fps, interlaced
1920x1080, 23.976 or 24 fps, progressive

VideoReDo HD is another choice.

You haven't said anything about what OS and PC you're using.

Quick question: If Itranscode (not sure it's the right term here) mts files into h264, would I loose quality?

Yes, more or less depending on how you do it. There are better encoders than Premiere's. You shouldn't be re-encoding anyway.

[zaerdy]

Thank you guys Like I expected, a lot to learn from my side.

Is there a difference between .mts and .m2ts?
Are those raw video or container?

@Baldrick: I am familiar with mkvmergegui. I could use it to put them in mkvs without any loss on quality. About burning into blu-rays, can I simply burn it without any menu and stuff? Would I be able to play it back?

@Newball: If I back up un m-disk blu-rays, would I be able to play it back? What software can I use to achieve this? My files are indeed in AVCHD (is this a codec?) Can you give me some exemple of some lossless, editing and delvery format?


@LMotlow I had to read you answer a couple of time but I think I get it. Can Adobe Premiere substitute for TMPGenc Smart Renderer for the editing part? If yes, wich format should I export to? If it helps you guide me, I can paste a mediainfo of one of the video.

I'm on win8 and my pc (laptop) is an Asus AMD quadcore (3 years old)

[Cornucopia]

Both MTS and M2TS are MPEG Transport Streams (container). The difference is usually in the packet size (M2TS packet sizes were designed to fit the BD disc sector sizes).

AVCHD is a format (little brother to the Blu-ray format), that uses the same AVC codec in the same M2TS container. Most any software that can play BD material can play AVCHD material.

The format breakdowns really are arranged as:
Capture : fast is the highest priority
Editing: good is the highest priority
Delivery/Distribution: small is the highest priority

Lossless can be in either the 1st or 2nd categories.

Blu-rays don't need to have menus, but they still need to be authored (ordering, formatting & navigation - even if minimal).

Scott

[LMotlow]

OK, Cornucopia got (I think) about 4 or 5 points covered. Only 1000 more to go.
Those questions look like a quarterly quiz at NYU Film School.

Is there a difference between .mts and .m2ts?

They are functionally similar, as noted by cornucopia.

Are those raw video or container?

Raw video is a format and color storage system that records uncompressd video from camera sensors. RAW almost always has a dynamic range and color gamut that exceed the dyanimic range and color gamut for typical video, photography, or motion picture film. RAW and "uncompressed" don't mean the same thing, although RAW source is not compressed. It's not likely that you'll be dealing with RAW video. If by "raw" you mean lossless or uncompressed, the answer is no -- mts/m2ts are not containers for lossless video.
https://www.videohelp.com/glossary?M#M2T,%20m2ts,%20mts

My files are indeed in AVCHD (is this a codec?)

No.
https://www.videohelp.com/glossary?A#AVCHD
standard AVCHD specs, from https://www.videohelp.com/hd#tech
(NOTE: many cameras don't shoot "to spec"). AVCHD is similar but not identical to BluRay.

Video codecs:       AVC/H264 - MPEG-4 AVC

Video frame size:   High Definition Video (frame size x frame rate x interlaced or progressive) (frame aspect ratio)
=================
AVCHD 2.0
   1920x1080x59.94, 50 (16:9)
   1440x1080x59.94, 50 (16:9)

AVCHD
   1920x1080x29.97, 25 (16:9)
   1920x1080x23.97 (16:9)
   1440x1080x29.97, 25 (16:9)
   1440x108023.97 (16:9)
   1280x720x59.94, 50 (16:9)
   1280x720x24, 23.97 (16:9)
   Standard Definition Video
     720x480x29.97 (4:3/16:9)
     720x576x25 (4:3/16:9)

Audio codecs:   Dolby Digital up to 5.1 channels (Max 640 Kbit/s)
                Linear PCM (Max 1.5Mbit/s)

Subtitles:   Image bitmap subtitles
             Subtitles are used in some camcorders to timestamp the recordings.

Other Features:    Menus

Maximum total bitrate:  18 Mbit/s (DVD Media)
                        24 Mbit/s (other media)
                        28 Mbit/s (AVCHD 2.0)

Organization of AVCHD authored media folders (BluRay & AVCHD): https://www.videohelp.com/hd#filestruct

Can you give me some exemple of some lossless, editing and delvery format?

Lossless video or losslessly compressed video are editable formats. Most of the lossless compressors you'll see mentioned in user forums are huffyuv, Lagarith, and UT Video Codec. There are others. Lossless compression means no data loss between compression, decompression, and recompression stages. What you put into it is what comes out, in its entirety.

Most lossy encoded formats are not designed as editing formats. Most common delivery formats are lossy enocded -- meaning that what you get back is somewhat less than what you put in, and sometimes a lot less. With video, it's also more complicated than that. Here is a quickie about editable and non-editable formats: http://telestreamblog.telestream.net/2012/04/save-yourself-frustration-use-editing-for...hen-editing-2/

@LMotlow I had to read you answer a couple of time but I think I get it. Can Adobe Premiere substitute for TMPGenc Smart Renderer for the editing part? If yes, wich format should I export to? If it helps you guide me, I can paste a mediainfo of one of the video.

You're comparing oranges and potatoes. TMPGEnc TMSR is basically a smart-rendering editor for cut and join operations, with a few transition and audio filters, very good MPEG and x624 encoders, can be learned in a day or two and is affordable for mere humans. Premiere Pro is a behemoth with thousands of NLE "editing" features, so-so encoders, first-rate color correction, non-existent denoising and repair features, many timeline tricks and compositing utilities, and a big price tag. My own preference for TMPGenc was based on price and usability (it can import a few formats that Premiere chokes on). For compositing and other effects I chose AfterEffects. I also use different encoders. I tend toward discrete products for special purposes. All-in-ones usually have you buying or learning a handful of other things before it's all said and done. It's mostly individual preference and final targets. The software that I use most of the time is free.

Color correction, denoising, cropping, etc., always require re-encoding. Smart rendering can't help you there.

What format to export to? Changing formats requires re-encoding or recompression. The answer depends on which stage of post-processing you refer to. If cut-and-join and a few short transitions are what you mean by "editing", you can use a smart rendering app for that work, so you would output the same format as your input. If you intend to do color correction, overlays, denosiing, cropping, resizing, deinterlace/reinterlace, inverse telecine, etc., you decode to lossless media first, put your work through its paces, then assemble the video and export to final delivery format.

Keep that mediainfo app handy. Likely you'll be asking more specific questions later for individual videos.

[zaerdy]

Wow! That was an elaborate question. Thanks a lot for taking the time to help a newb :P

I will indeed have more question in the near future. I think the first step will be to back those up, probably on blu-rays. I actually don't have any blu-ray burner (hardware) . do you have anything to recommend? Is there a difference in the process between burning videos to blu-rays for back-ups vs playback (unedited). In other word, can I burn my videos to blu-rays to back them up AND play them?

[smrpix]

can I burn my videos to blu-rays to back them up AND play them?

For standalone Blu Ray players your disk must contain properly encoded fileswithin a proper Blu Ray structure. For computer-only playback your Blu Ray disk can be an unstructured data disk with just a bunch of files on it.

One further complication that can make your life easier, but also lull you into a false sense of security, is that most Sony consumer camcorders shoot media files that are already Blu Ray compliant. Indeed, most of the cameras have a direct copy to disk function that will create the correct structure for you as well. You may want to explore the software that comes with the camera (or is available on Sony's website,) it's not ideal but it will do the job.

BTW, If you have Premiere Pro, you're entitled to Encore which will also do an excellent job of BR authoring.

[LMotlow]

I'm on win8 and my pc (laptop) is an Asus AMD quadcore (3 years old)

I forgot about this. Win8 will limit your software options. HD processing requires above-average CPU power, fast drives, and plenty of cooling -- none of which are common with laptops. BD disc burning will require a portable burner unless you can find a way to replace your DVD drive unit. That, too, will slow things down. HD video processing on a laptop is a tough way to go through life. You can extend the life of your laptop by mounting it on one of those cooling platforms sold in electronics stores (and the guys who make those things have their nerve charging all that $$$ for plastic).

[usually_quiet]

There is one thing that nobody has mentioned. Although authored Blu-Ray should have universal compatibility with Blu-Ray players, many newer Blu-Ray players can play HD video files burned as data on DVD and BD-R, including mts. If zaerdy has such a player and wants a simpler procedure for archiving, all he needs is ImgBurn and good BD-R media. I like Panasonic BD-R for archiving.

[smrpix]

There is one thing that nobody has mentioned. Although authored Blu-Ray should have universal compatibility with Blu-Ray players, many newer Blu-Ray players can play HD video files burned as data on DVD and BD-R, including mts. If zaerdy has such a player and wants a simpler procedure for archiving, all he needs is ImgBurn and good BD-R media. I like Panasonic BD-R for archiving.

I kind of did mention it in the sense that it could lull one into a false sense of security. The mts files are (probably) already BR compatible, though the structure is not. The BR may play fine in his current machine and then one day he puts it into another machine and it spits up.

Everything you've said is correct, but OP ought to know what may happen down the road.

[usually_quiet]

There is one thing that nobody has mentioned. Although authored Blu-Ray should have universal compatibility with Blu-Ray players, many newer Blu-Ray players can play HD video files burned as data on DVD and BD-R, including mts. If zaerdy has such a player and wants a simpler procedure for archiving, all he needs is ImgBurn and good BD-R media. I like Panasonic BD-R for archiving.

I kind of did mention it in the sense that it could lull one into a false sense of security. The mts files are (probably) already BR compatible, though the structure is not. The BR may play fine in his current machine and then one day he puts it into another machine and it spits up.

Everything you've said is correct, but OP ought to know what may happen down the road.

...and what if the mts files are not Blu-Ray compatible? Archiving is mainly concerned with preservation of the original data files. Playback on consumer devices should be thought of as a side benefit.

[smrpix]

...and what if the mts files are not Blu-Ray compatible? Archiving is mainly concerned with preservation of the original data files. Playback on consumer devices should be thought of as a side benefit.

Most current sony camcorder .mts files are BR compatible -- that's what led to my concern. I agree with you.

[LMotlow]

Agreed, it's the original that should be archived, BR compatible or not. I'd elect to do that on external hard drives rather than disc. Many of my own most valuable archives use both.

[usually_quiet]

Wow! That was an elaborate question. Thanks a lot for taking the time to help a newb :P

I will indeed have more question in the near future. I think the first step will be to back those up, probably on blu-rays. I actually don't have any blu-ray burner (hardware) . do you have anything to recommend?

I missed this somehow.

Half-height external drives with their own power supply are supposed to be more durable than slim drives. Kerry56, one of our members who is very well-informed about BD-RW drives, recommends this for laptop users: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=909575&gclid=CNmvjp-yzsUCFYUTHw...=REG&A=details

This is a USB 3.0 drive. The laptop needs to have a USB 3.0 port to take full advantage of this burner's capabilities.

[zaerdy]

...and what if the mts files are not Blu-Ray compatible? Archiving is mainly concerned with preservation of the original data files. Playback on consumer devices should be thought of as a side benefit.

I think my files are blu-ray compatible as they are in AVCHD format. I agree that my primary concern is to archive and back-up. I already have them backed-up on an external HDD which I use only for that matter, but I don't always trust this since I already had a disk faillure with the same brand (seagate) I will look forward to make a blu-ray burned copy of the files without authoring. And like you said, if I can play them on blu-rays player, that's just a bonus.

[zaerdy]

Half-height external drives with their own power supply are supposed to be more durable than slim drives. Kerry56, one of our members who is very well-informed about BD-RW drives, recommends this for laptop users: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=909575&gclid=CNmvjp-yzsUCFYUTHw...=REG&A=details

This is a USB 3.0 drive. The laptop needs to have a USB 3.0 port to take full advantage of this burner's capabilities.

I'm torn between buying an external blu-ray player/burner like this, or building a new PC with a blu-ray player. Sure the first option is less expensive, but it seems like I will have a hard time with my laptop when it comes to edit and encode my videos into enjoyable montage.

[smrpix]

I'm torn between buying an external blu-ray player/burner like this, or building a new PC with a blu-ray player. Sure the first option is less expensive, but it seems like I will have a hard time with my laptop when it comes to edit and encode my videos into enjoyable montage.

Get a computer that suits your editing needs. Burning Blu Rays is just a mechanical function.

[zaerdy]

I'm torn between buying an external blu-ray player/burner like this, or building a new PC with a blu-ray player. Sure the first option is less expensive, but it seems like I will have a hard time with my laptop when it comes to edit and encode my videos into enjoyable montage.

Get a computer that suits your editing needs. Burning Blu Rays is just a mechanical function.

I was planning to build an HTPC in the near future. Could I build and HTPC powerful enough to fill my editing needs or I should have two separate machine?

[LMotlow]

By HTPC people usually mean a very compact PC small enough to place near a TV and designed primarily for playing videos. Those small cabinets are difficult to cool, usully involve half-height add-on PCI or PCIe cards or more often integrated video/audio, and so forth. You don't have to have a case the size of a Lockheed C-5 Galaxy for processing, but likely it'll be bigger than what people usually call HTPC. Many well designed mATX motherboards would be enough. You'd have one or more high-power cooling fans, an i7 or better CPU with effective cooling for long process sessions, at least two hard drives (one for the OS, one or more for work area), a good add-on 1GB minimum or bigger graphics card and a PCI/PCIe sound card instead of integrated video and audio. You'll need a monitor with at least an IPS front panel or better. Sounds like a simjple idea to just hook your graphics card up to your TV, but most graphics cards don't throw such a great image onto a TV. .....and so forth.

But if you wanna call your processing PC by HTPC, you can certainly do it.

[usually_quiet]

Yes HTPCs can be powerful enough to do Blu-Ray encoding and authoring, but as already pointed out, you can't use a thin/tiny case if that is what you want to do.

I built an HTPC with an MATX motherboard, and the case (a used Lian Li PC-C50B bought on ebay) is not what I would call a tiny, thin HTPC case, and it is well-ventilated, but it is still cramped. It has restrictions on the size of the optical drive and the power supply. An LG Blu-Ray drive fits, but a Pioneer Blu-Ray drive is too long.

Not everyone feels a graphics card is necessary for encoding Blu-Ray. CPU-only encoding is higher quality. An i5 can work as the CPU. It just takes longer to encode than an i7.