How do I divide a lengthy MP3 into chapters?

[Todd Sauve]

Hi all,

I have downloaded an open source audio Bible called World English Bible. Here is what I need to do and I'll use the book of Genesis as an example. It is divided into 50 separate MP3s, one for each chapter in the book. I have used a program called Free MP3 Merge to simply join all 50 chapters into one long file. But I would actually like to be able to set up the MP3 so that I can skip forward or backward chapter by chapter, as in all 50 chapters.

How can I place chapter markers throughout the Genesis MP3 so that I can move through it one chapter at a time? Is this possible with MP3s?

Is there a free program that will let me take the 50 MP3 files and join them into one MP3 but preserve the divisions of each file and make them into chapters? That would be the easiest way to skin this cat but I don't know if it is possible.

Your help is much appreciated!

[Cornucopia]

(2nd attempt!!)

OK, at least 2 ways to go about doing this:

• Combine the file, then attatch chapter marker metadata, through the use of tags (such as ID3), tacked onto user data sections of the file (head, middle, or tail depending). This is how some of the better podcasts do it. Use tools such as Auphonic or ID3v2ChapterTool to create/edit. Problem with this format is that some/many players do not recognize the tags. Rarely would this break the playability, but it would render the file completely without chapters, making it a larger monolithic file that takes a bit to slog through.
  
• Do not -ever- combine the files themselves, in fact don't modify them at all, but rather just gather them together into a folder and then access them through a playlist metafile. This can come in the form of .PL, .M3U, .ASX/.WAX/.WVX, .SMI, etc. (depending on format and PC platform). These are easy to work with/create/edit because they are simple, plain text file (or variants of XML) under the hood and can be operated on by text editors. All you need is to understand the syntax. Problem with this format is that some players do not work with those metafiles (some or all, depending), only the media essence data. In that case, it probably wouldn't crash the player, but the player might only play the 1st segment (usual worst case), or play all the segments but with large pauses/gaps between segments (usual 2nd best case).

Try them both and see which one works best for your intended target audience/device/app.

Scott

[Todd Sauve]

Thanks Corn!

However, I don't think either of your solutions is appropriate for my problem and I don't really understand how they work either.

What I need is something very simple that will work with mp3 players like Winamp or VLC or Zoom, etc.

Something that will let me take the combined mp3 file, with all 50 chapters merged into one file, and then let me open it in the program and simply assign a chapter beginning and then let me set the next chapter beginning, without getting into chapter closing markers if possible. If that can't be done then a simple open chapter and close chapter marker, easily assigned by the program so I can get this done and out of the way fast. And something that makes chapters that all of the aforementioned players will recognise.

I have heard that this can be done with Audacity but I don't know the procedure. Do you know Corn?

[smrpix]

http://www.ehow.com/how_12212042_make-chapters-audacity.html

As you can see, it just breaks it into separate pieces again.

[Todd Sauve]

This is an annoying problem to address, isn't it?

All I really want to do is fix it up as I have outlined and then post it to our church's local website so people can download the entire audio Bible, then when they choose a book to listen to, be able to skip back and forth by chapter within the individual book.

I didn't think this would be hard to do but it seems that MP3s were never designed with this idea in mind ...

[smrpix]

This is an annoying problem to address, isn't it?

You're going to end up with a playlist. Embrace it and move on.

[Todd Sauve]

Is there an audio format that will allow me to do what I have outlined?

[DB83]

If you really want to do what you desire, consider creating a dvd with just audio or audio and a single graphic image for each 'chapter'.

As pure audio you are probably 'stuck' with what has been suggested.

[smrpix]

All I really want to do is fix it up as I have outlined and then post it to our church's local website so people can download the entire audio Bible, then when they choose a book to listen to, be able to skip back and forth by chapter within the individual book.

Really all you're doing is mirroring the functionality of WEB anyway. Why not just link to their site or design your own church-branded page? It's allowed according to their rules.
If you need it downloadable, just create a local/downloadable html site.

[Todd Sauve]

Hi smrpix,

Yes, I just wanted to make the WEB more convenient for everyone but I guess it can't be done. Alas, such is life, eh?

Thanks for all your help!

[smrpix]

No worries. FWIW there's big chunks missing anyway. Supposedly those will be updated as time goes on?

[transporterfan]

Is there an audio format that will allow me to do what I have outlined?

M4a and M4b are the best for having chapter information.
BUT, it depends a lot on what the people who visit the website use as a player (the ability to read/interpret the audio format, tags, chapter markers...).

Take a look at this: http://lodensoftware.com/chapter-and-verse/ - (tip: convert to AAC BEFORE loading the files)

I would probably go with a video format (most devices play video these days) like mpeg-2 and chapterize it.

[Cornucopia]

The original question was "is it possible with mp3s?", and I answered that. If you had asked what format allows that, I would have given an answer like transporterfan's (mp4/m4a), since the mp4 container supports chapters.
However, there are 2 types of chapters in mp4: QT/MOV-like timed text and ID3 tags. You have to use the one(s) that is supported by the players the target audience will be using (unless you can convince them to use something else).

BTW, FYI there is no such thing as a "chapter close" mark. A chapter just keeps ambling on until the start of the next chapter. That's (usually) the way books work, too.

Scott

[Todd Sauve]

No worries. FWIW there's big chunks missing anyway. Supposedly those will be updated as time goes on?

Actually, the WEB project is complete as far as the mp3 part of it is concerned. You can also get the entire WEB in the free eSword Bible program as well. It is a really well done project and completely open source, too. Which is something that has been needed for an up to date modern English Bible that is well translated and fairly scholarly.

[newpball]

This is an annoying problem to address, isn't it?

Only after you decided to merge everything in one file.

What is wrong having it in separate files?
If you want to play them sequentially or with fast skipping order them by chapter (for instance by prefixing them with 0001, 0002, 0003 etc), then put them in a folder and play a folder with your favorite media player.

So then you have direct access and sequential access.

[hello_hello]

Pretty much any media player should be able to open cuesheet files. They're independent of the media files themselves and can be used to open a single MP3 as a multi-track MP3, effectively opening a single MP3 as though it's actually a bunch of individual MP3s, or you can open a bunch of MP3s using a single cuesheet etc.

A cuesheet file is just a text file with a .cue extension. A basic cuesheet file that opens a large MP3 divided into individual sections might look like this:

PERFORMER "Name"
TITLE "Title"
FILE "MyAudio.mp3" WAVE
TRACK 01 AUDIO
TITLE "Intro"
INDEX 01 00:00:00
TRACK 02 AUDIO
TITLE "Chapter 1"
INDEX 01 00:15:37
TRACK 03 AUDIO
TITLE "Chapter 2"
INDEX 01 03:01:11
TRACK 04 AUDIO
TITLE "Chapter 3"
INDEX 01 04:21:00

If you saved the above as MyAudio.cue (or any name) it'd open MyAudio.mp3 as though it was four individual files and you'd be able to choose which one to play just as you could for individual MP3s. If you still have the individual MP3s you could keep them as individual files and open them with a similar cuesheet.

Most audio programs have the ability to create cuesheets as well as other types of playlist files. If you load a bunch of mp3s into a foobar2000 playlist you can order them the way you prefer, highlight them all, right click and there's options for creating cuesheets and playlists under the Utilities menu.

Doing it the other way around..... creating a cuesheet for an already existing single MP3 might require some more manual work. I haven't used it that way myself, but I think MP3DirectCut lets you set different split points and create cuesheets from there, or you could create one yourself using Notepad, or maybe someone else can suggest another program that might help automate the process. I think a cuesheet is about as close as you'll get to "chapters" for an MP3.

[Cornucopia]

As I've already described playlists, and a cuesheet is just a special case of a playlist (one that was originally intended to be used for burning audio/rom CD's), we're back to the problem that is inherent with this approach: some players work, some don't (sorry to disappoint you hello_hello, but they aren't as universal as you make them out to be). Note also that even among those players that accept cue sheets, support for mp3 as referenced assets is not as widespread as you'd think/hope (cue was originally meant to work with BIN, ISO, or WAV files).

The OP can decide to "force" or suggest compatible players, or not. My suggestion is to test a few different scenarios and go with what works best (or at least for the greatest # of users).

Scott

[hello_hello]

(sorry to disappoint you hello_hello, but they aren't as universal as you make them out to be)

Which software audio players don't understand cuesheets with MP3? VLC does. I'd be astounded if WinAmp doesn't. They're the two players mentioned by the OP. foobar2000 does. MusicBee does (it adds them correctly to a playlist although I had to open them via the Explorer right click menu rather than MusicBee's File/Open menu, but maybe I'm missing something as I don't use it much). AIMP3 does. MPC-BE does. PotPlayer does. MPC-HC doesn't. I'm sure it used to. Maybe since the switch to LAV filters, but it supports asx, pls, m3u, m3u8, wvx, wax, wmx and mpcpl playlists so it surprises me cue isn't on the list. I'll have to investigate that.

Well I'm not disappointed yet, as after a survey of software installed on this PC I'd have to say cue/mp3 is 100% supported by audio players and supported by 3 out of 4 video players.

[Cornucopia]

This link compares a variety of somewhat popular audio players and it only lists 2-3 as confirmed as accepting cue files: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_audio_player_software. Then there's WMP & iTunes, both Lowest common denominator options for audio players I agree, but neither of those work natively with cue files: they both require a couple of plugins as awkward runtime workarounds in order for them to work.
I mention those because you need to be realistic about WHO is going to be the intended audience for these files...NOT you @hello_hello, but newbies on PCs and Macs (and probably even phones & tablets) who will be accessing these through browser links. Do you think they are going to get a variety of (probably) lesser known and (in their minds) possibly supect apps, much less DL & install plugins just to get chaptered playback?

Again, there are NO playlist methods ( for mp3s) which have UNIVERSAL support!
If chaptering is a high priority, going with M4As or MKAs (with their internal chaptering capabilities) would make more sense, because the expectation of playlist/chapter support accompanying the expected support of those formats themselves would have a much higher probability.

Scott

[hello_hello]

This link compares a variety of somewhat popular audio players and it only lists 2-3 as confirmed as accepting cue files: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_audio_player_software.

I suspect it's very out of date. I tested all the players I mentioned in my previous post and both AIMP and MusicBee opened cuesheets happily even though they're shown as "?" in that list.

I mention those because you need to be realistic about WHO is going to be the intended audience for these files...NOT you @hello_hello, but newbies on PCs and Macs (and probably even phones & tablets) who will be accessing these through browser links. Do you think they are going to get a variety of (probably) lesser known and (in their minds) possibly suspect apps, much less DL & install plugins just to get chaptered playback?

I was only replying to one poster, and that was Todd Sauve, who asked:
"What I need is something very simple that will work with mp3 players like Winamp or VLC or Zoom, etc."

Granted I haven't checked WinAmp or Zoom, but I'd be surpised if they didn't support cuesheets, and while I didn't find out by looking at the ZoomPlayer website, I did discover it's capable of making it's own chapters, although no doubt they wouldn't work with another player.
http://www.inmatrix.com/zplayer/chapters.shtml

[Todd Sauve]

OK, I downloaded and installed freac and have converted almost all the .mp3s to .m4a but the program refuses to convert three of my folders, saying that the files are not all the same, apparently in bit depth and sample rate. This is nonsense, since I converted them all to exactly the same type of MP3 when it told me about the problem. Still freac refuses to convert them into a single M4A file or create a .cue file.

I've spent hours on this tonight with no joy at the end of it all! There is some kind of bug in the program.

Is there another free program that anyone knows of that will merge all the remaining MP3s in their respective folders into one M4A file and create a .cue file to go along with it?

Of the 66 folders in the WEB Bible, only 3 have been refused by freac and I can't find any other way of skinning this cat!

Please rescue me folks!

Thanks a million!

[hello_hello]

What do you mean by "converted them all to exactly the same type of MP3"?

Is there a reason why some of the original MP3s couldn't have had a different sample rate (ie 48k instead of 44.1k)? MP3s don't have a bitdepth as such (they're decoded to a specific bitdepth but they don't have a fixed bitdepth such as 16 bit or 24 bit as wave files do) so it's probably a difference in sample rate (not bitrate). If that's the case then you'll probably need to convert them all to a common sample rate first.

[Todd Sauve]

I converted all of the mp3s to the same format, i.e., 16bit and 44.1. So I can't understand why freac keeps rejecting these folders.

I need another program that does the same thing but will also read and convert the files.

[Cornucopia]

Let's make sure it's not an actual problem with the media, first.
What does MediaInfo say bout the bad files (compared to the good)? Advanced/detailed text readouts, please.

Scott

[newpball]

I am still at a total loss here. You have a bunch of separate mp3 files that you would like to merge so that you can hear then individually?

Doesn't make any sense.

Put them in a folder, order them by chapter, use you favorite media player and open the folder, you can hear them all sequentially and also chapter by chapter.

I think you are trying to find a solution for something that is not a problem.

[Cornucopia]

@newpball, I understand your confusion, but I think post #5 explains that the OP is expecting clients to DL a single file, then use (with presumed chapter support) on their player of choice at home.

Your solution might work if you zipped the folder and DL'd the zip (presumes clients would have NO trouble working with zip files!). Otherwise, there is still a problem (though not one that hasn't already had solutions suggested).

Scott

[newpball]

Or perhaps just give "clients" an email with the link to the open source?

[Todd Sauve]

Let's make sure it's not an actual problem with the media, first.
What does MediaInfo say bout the bad files (compared to the good)? Advanced/detailed text readouts, please.

Scott

I know it is not the files because I re-encoded all of them so that they are now all exactly the same. Moreover, I found a trial ware program called Xrecode that does the same thing as freac and it accepted all the re-encoded mp3s, changed them to m4as and produced a working .cue file for each group as well. But being trial ware, it only allows me to hear the first chapter of the .cue file while all the remaining chapters have the audio slowed down drastically making them unuseable. Alas!

And I can't bring myself to pay over the $15 US for a program I am only ever going to use once.

I think I may just create a playlist for each folder full of mp3s and leave it at that ... unless someone knows of a freeware program that does what freac does without the problems.

Nevertheless, you folks on here have been really helpfull and I want to thank you all for your time and effort!

[Cornucopia]

If you have mp4/m4a/aac files, you don't NEED a cue file, just use QT or ID3 chapters (depending upon the player).

If you are trying to convert mp3s to mp4/m4a/aac, I'd strongly suggest the freeware LameXP. Bonus: it will do batch.

Scott

...I still don't know why you aren't confirming your file content via MediaInfo (also freeware).

[Todd Sauve]

If you have mp4/m4a/aac files, you don't NEED a cue file, just use QT or ID3 chapters (depending upon the player).

If you are trying to convert mp3s to mp4/m4a/aac, I'd strongly suggest the freeware LameXP. Bonus: it will do batch.

Scott

...I still don't know why you aren't confirming your file content via MediaInfo (also freeware).

I did check them out using Mediainfo, Scott. I've used it for years.

The real problem is with freac, it has a bug in it somewhere.

But the playlist solution is a good one and thanks for suggesting it in your first post!

I found a free one called Playlist Creator 3.6.2 and you can get it here: http://www.oddgravity.de/

It works perfectly and I can heartily endorse it for anyone looking for this type of program. Someone should make a link for with all the other freeware on this site.

Thanks again Scott, and thanks again to everyone else who offered a helping hand. This is a very good site and the folks who contribute here should give themselves some applause. You are all a pretty good lot of nerds!