How to playback minidv in original format ?

[Movie-Maker]

Is there any device that will playback minidv (or avi/raw data files) and output the least processed signal over a digital connection (dvi ? hdmi ?).
Ideally I'd like to get 480i out in the original color space (4:1:1). So no deinterlacing, no chroma upsampling, nothing.
I doubt there is any transmission format that supports 4:1:1, so upsampling to 4:2:0 could be acceptable as long as it done good.
Please advise.
Thanks.

[boardbuilder]

Check out the Blackmagic Design Decklink products. They should fit your application. If you're only interested in playback, the DeckLink Mini Monitor is probably their least expensive product.

[Cornucopia]

This is what's known as a DV player/deck or DV camcorder.*

No sarcasm there (well, just a little).
They have:
Firewire digital connection
Raw data stream output (captured as files when played in realtime through the firewire)
(For NTSC, DV spec) use 480i 4:1:1 color space. Deint+chroma upsamle would only happen optionally upon capture.

Most (all?) digital transmission formats support 4:1:1, that is not a limiting factor.

It's like you can't see the forest through the trees.

Is there a device that can read the tape in high-speed and provide random access, file-based or DVI/HDMI steam-based options? - NO. None.

Scott

*Note that higher end/pro versions (DVCam, DVCPro, etc) often also support the consumer dv spec.

[Movie-Maker]

Perhaps my question wasn't very clear. I am not looking for something to "capture" but rather "real time playback" on a digital TV. I have a DV camcorder already that has firewire output but I can't use firewire for real time playback on a standalone monitor like a tv, can I ?

[Cornucopia]

Ok, that IS a little clearer. Here's the rub...

DV (and HDV as well) is a compressed, (internally) muxed bitstream. Firewire is used as a real-time transfer medium from one "storage device" (usually tape, but sometimes files on HDD/SSD/card/optical) to another "storage device" (usually files on computer HDD). Sometimes this is done "live" (whether with digital sensor or with A/D converter), but usually after recording. Sometimes this is done in reverse (for monitoring purposes), but when it is done that way, it is almost ALWAYS finished with a D/A conversion to Component/SVideo/Composite, or occasionally with a conversion to SDI.

Since HDMI (and DVI) are Un-compressed, "pre-rendered" bitstreams for realtime transfer to sink devices (usually displays, but also storage) - converting to HDMI from Firewire is NOT a trivial thing. One needs to store a Frame's worth (or GOP's worth in the case of HDV) of video in framestore, decompress from the DV DCT to uncompressed (in the proper bit pattern), and optionally resample the chroma and/or change the colorspace and/or resize, all while also storing a matching frame's (GOP's) worth of audio (also decoding from MP2 to LPCM in the case of HDV) in order to maintain AV sync. Certainly not something that can be done with a "simple cable" adapter. In a sense, it needs to be captured & "rendered".

So, really what you are looking for might end up being more about capture than just playback/display.

Suggestions - get:
1. Dedicated MediaPC (w/FW in and HDMI out) to do the realtime conversion, or
2. A FW->SDI converter box and then downstream a SDI->HDMI converter box (probably $$$), or
3. A DVR with FW input, HDMI output, and "realtime" preview (deprecated), or
4. Just bit the bullet and get all your DV tapes transferred and upconverted, then just play out via std. HDMI.

(note: it actually should be possible for a dedicated direct [DV/HDV FW->HDMI] device like this to be built, easily, but because of niche market/low demand, it would likely not be any cheaper an option, and there doesn't seem to be any existing one)

Scott

[davideck]

IIRC, my Canon HDV Camcorder (HV30) has an HDMI output and is DV compatible. It's been a while, but I think it can playback DV via HDMI. Or am I mistaken?

[Movie-Maker]

Thanks for your reply. I was afraid that would be the answer.

Ok let me scale down my requirement. Forget about the purest possible data part. Is there any player or even camcorder that has hdmi output ? It seems like Sony HC-9 and Canon HV40 seem to have an hdmi output. At that point I guess then the question would be which of these such devices has the best quality playback over hdmi ? If any of these could output 480i (not p) it could be further desirable.
I am open to semi-pro or pro devices if I can get anything used for under $400.

[Cornucopia]

Just checked the manuals for hv30/40. They do output hdmi. Therefore, I would strongly suggest that you go that route and pick up a used one right away while they still are available in numbers and quality. Ought to be within your budget.

Oh,...and transfer those tapes to your computer soon if you value them.

Scott