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  1. Member hech54's Avatar
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    My wife is going nuts. All of the videos IN THE PHONE show they are right side Up.....but a few of them insist on being upside down once transferred to her laptop (Windows 8.1). Anyone heard anything about this? I have an iPhone 5 and rarely take video with it anyway.
    I'm going to attempt to save them to MY computer later (once I pry her phone from her hands after work) but, anyone heard of this?
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  2. You need to use a player that respects the rotation flags of the MP4 container.
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  3. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    she turned the phone the wrong way a few times. use vidcoder(or your favorite) to rotate and re-encode or they might not play right if you share them.
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    "a lot of people are better dead" - prisoner KSC2-303
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  4. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    +1 for both above. The phone's player recognizes the rotation flag (which is why it looks ok there), but if other players don't they would show as upside-down. QT player works for sure (and QT pro can be used to correct...with re-encoding, etc).

    Scott
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  5. Member hech54's Avatar
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    So QT Pro re-encodes?
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  6. Member netmask56's Avatar
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    Make sure your wife knows the iPhone needs to have the big start button located either at the bottom, for holding the camera vertical or to her right when doing a normal landscape view. It's easy to reverse especially if you are left handed. I'm totally ambidextrous and it drove me mad when I first got my iPhone.....
    BeyonWiz T3 PVR ~ Popcorn A-500 ~ Samsung ES8000 65" LED TV ~ Windows 7 64bit ~ Yamaha RX-A1070 ~ QnapTS851-4G
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  7. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    So QT Pro re-encodes?
    It can re-encode (although rediculously slowly), remux, or sometimes just do header changes (sometimes in-place, sometimes not).
    Re-encoding/remuxing is only available into certain QT-acceptable formats, however (as usual, QT's achille's heel - known by apple as a "feature").

    BTW, if the engine is QT-X (aka AV Foundation), bets are off and you are back to square one WRT feature/format/3rdparty options).

    Scott
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  8. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Don't get me wrong guys....I appreciate the help but my wife is THE iPhone expert. My son now has her first iPhone (4S), I have her second iPhone(5S) and she now has a 6 (Plus? - the ridiculously huge one with the insanely huge HDD).
    She took about 20 videos at a concert and only two or three of them show up flipped on a PC. She knows her iPhone "etiquette".

    Does QT-Pro ALWAYS re-encode when just flipping a video? If it does then I'll just flip them myself.
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  9. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Since by default iPhones record AVC to MP4 or (more likely) MOV, and Both containers support the rotation/flip flags (being both based on QT MOV file format), as long as you are re-saving (NOT exporting) to MOV/MP4, it should just remux and/or rewrite the headers/flags. Make sure it is a flattened, self-contained file, not a reference file.

    Try it yourself with a copy - shoudn't take too long.

    Scott

    <edit>IIWY, for good knowledge's sake, I would check a before and after with MediaInfo to see whether it is ADDING, EDITING or REMOVING the rotation flag. Could make a diff later on in troubleshooting.
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  10. Member hech54's Avatar
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    I still haven't been able to pry the phone from my wife's hands.
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  11. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    My wife has same phone, same issues. Sometimes she turns it the wrong way and it becomes upside down. I don't know why anyone would want to take a picture upside down so it doesn't make sense to even have that kind of "feature". I say it's a bug.

    If it isn't a bug, then why is the screen preview not upside down?

    And it's hard to get rid of that flag. My photo software doesn't correct it unless I save to a different format.
    Last edited by budwzr; 17th Apr 2015 at 09:16.
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  12. Originally Posted by budwzr View Post
    I don't know why anyone would want to take a picture upside down so it doesn't make sense to even have that kind of "feature".
    Because Apple doesn't care what happens outside their ecosystem. In fact, they probably prefer that things don't work outside their ecosystem. "See, you should have bought a Mac." Apple products aren't about interoperability with the rest of the world. They're about locking you into Apple products. Not having to rotate the image before encoding saves time (better fps, fewer dropped frames) and power when recording.
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  13. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    Yeah, Apple tried to hose the Los Angeles school system with their toy software, and all hell is breaking loose now.

    They did the same crap like the Walter Murch scam. Apple software is not up to par, that's why they have to pay kickbacks.
    Last edited by budwzr; 17th Apr 2015 at 09:32.
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  14. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Finally got my hands on the videos.
    I tried several ways to do it but the only sure fire way I found was to load the MOV files into MainConcept and re-encode them to a 16X9 DVD/MPEG2 file. When imported into MainConcept they showed up right side up(correctly).....interesting.

    My wife was Windows 8 so she can use a more advanced version of HandBrake , and she found a buried option to flip while transcoding/downsizing for a YouTube upload. She is still afraid they will show up upside down on YouTube so she is keeping my re-encodes just in case.
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  15. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Original MOV:
    Format : MPEG-4
    Format profile : QuickTime
    Codec ID : qt
    File size : 542 MiB
    Duration : 4mn 29s
    Overall bit rate : 16.9 Mbps
    Encoded date : UTC 2015-04-08 10:41:39
    Tagged date : UTC 2015-04-08 10:46:09
    Writing application : 8.2
    Writing library : Apple QuickTime
    com.apple.quicktime.creationdate : 2015-04-08T20:41:39+1000
    com.apple.quicktime.model : iPhone 6 Plus
    com.apple.quicktime.software : 8.2
    com.apple.quicktime.location.ISO : -37.8211+144.9802+011.420/
    com.apple.quicktime.make : Apple
    xyz : -37.8211+144.9802+011.420/
    Model : iPhone 6 Plus
    Make : Apple

    Video
    ID : 1
    Format : AVC
    Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
    Format profile : High@L4.0
    Format settings, CABAC : Yes
    Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame
    Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=30
    Codec ID : avc1
    Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
    Duration : 4mn 29s
    Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 16.8 Mbps
    Width : 1 920 pixels
    Height : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Rotation : 180
    Frame rate mode : Variable
    Frame rate : 30.000 fps
    Minimum frame rate : 30.000 fps
    Maximum frame rate : 31.579 fps
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Progressive
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.270
    Stream size : 540 MiB (100%)
    Title : Core Media Video
    Encoded date : UTC 2015-04-08 10:41:39
    Tagged date : UTC 2015-04-08 10:46:09
    Color primaries : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
    Transfer characteristics : BT.709-5, BT.1361
    Matrix coefficients : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

    Audio
    ID : 2
    Format : AAC
    Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
    Format version : Version 4
    Format profile : LC
    Format settings, SBR : No
    Format settings, PS : No
    Codec ID : 40
    Duration : 4mn 29s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 64.0 Kbps
    Channel(s) : 1 channel
    Channel positions : Front: C
    Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
    Stream size : 2.03 MiB (0%)
    Title : Core Media Audio
    Encoded date : UTC 2015-04-08 10:41:39
    Tagged date : UTC 2015-04-08 10:46:09

    My MainConcept Re-encode:
    Format : MPEG-PS
    File size : 246 MiB
    Duration : 4mn 29s
    Overall bit rate : 7 657 Kbps

    Video
    ID : 224 (0xE0)
    Format : MPEG Video
    Format version : Version 2
    Format profile : Main@Main
    Format settings, BVOP : Yes
    Format settings, Matrix : Default
    Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
    Duration : 4mn 29s
    Bit rate mode : Variable
    Bit rate : 5 969 Kbps
    Nominal bit rate : 9 500 Kbps
    Width : 720 pixels
    Height : 480 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 16:9
    Frame rate : 29.970 fps
    Standard : NTSC
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Interlaced
    Scan order : Bottom Field First
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.576
    Stream size : 191 MiB (78%)

    Audio
    ID : 160 (0xA0)
    Format : PCM
    Format settings, Endianness : Big
    Format settings, Sign : Signed
    Muxing mode : DVD-Video
    Duration : 4mn 29s
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
    Channel(s) : 2 channels
    Channel positions : Front: L R
    Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
    Bit depth : 16 bits
    Stream size : 49.3 MiB (20%)
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  16. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    Finally got my hands on the videos.
    I tried several ways to do it but the only sure fire way I found was to load the MOV files into MainConcept and re-encode them to a 16X9 DVD/MPEG2 file. When imported into MainConcept they showed up right side up(correctly).....interesting.

    My wife was Windows 8 so she can use a more advanced version of HandBrake , and she found a buried option to flip while transcoding/downsizing for a YouTube upload. She is still afraid they will show up upside down on YouTube so she is keeping my re-encodes just in case.
    So, did QT Pro not work for you? Or did you not have a copy of QT Pro? I had thought you were going to try that route and avoid re-encoding.

    Scott
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  17. Member racer-x's Avatar
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    In case anyone is interested, Apple is set to hit the 1trillion mark before the year is out. Yes there are plenty of dumb people out there all in on Apple's B.S. scheme...

    Just my opinion, I wouldn't own an Apple product, unless you paid me a good sum to. My wife on the other hand is all in, go figure.
    Got my retirement plans all set. Looks like I only have to work another 5 years after I die........
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  18. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    So, did QT Pro not work for you? Or did you not have a copy of QT Pro? I had thought you were going to try that route and avoid re-encoding.

    Scott
    Didn't feel like spending $30 to find out. All I got previously was this:
    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    it should just remux and/or rewrite the headers/flags
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  19. Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    Didn't feel like spending $30 to find out. All I got previously was this:
    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    it should just remux and/or rewrite the headers/flags
    Changing the rotation flag won't help you. The video is upside down and the flag is already set to 180 degrees. The media player you're using in Windows is ignoring flag and leaving the video upside down. If you change the flag to 0 degrees the Windows player will still ignore the flag and the video will still be upside down. Apple devices will see the new flag and play the video upside down. So you'll only make the situation worse.

    The only way to eliminate the problem is to decompress the video, rotate the image, and recompress it.
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  20. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    The crazy part is that the Apple users mantra is "it just works". Yet in this case it clearly doesn't "just work". The phone's camera preview is not WYSIWYG.
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  21. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Actually, budwzr, the problem here isn't that it doesn't work in the phone's preview, nor that it is stored without a proper flag, but that OTHER apps aren't built fully to its spec and don't honor the rotation flag. Complaining about that being Apple's fault would be like complaining about some MPEG using non-square pixels, some AVI formats having alpha channels, Dual-mux stereo3D not properly being shown (in either 2D or 3D), or DTS-HD MA not being decoded losslessly.*

    All of those format options have elements that are more than PLAIN VANILLA, and let's be blunt: STUPID players that aren't built to spec are gonna not play them correctly. It's they that ought to be improved (in the medium/long term). In the meantime, sounds like this rotation thing would need to end up being hardcoded to plain vanilla (just like anamorphics would have to be redone as square pixel, Alphas would have to have a separate grayscale mask made to use, dual-mux would have to be re-laid out to SbS, DTS-HD MA would have to be decompressed to WAV, etc.). But don't shoot the messenger!

    Scott
    (BTW, I too have a problem with Apple's "us vs them" attitude, I'm just pragmatic about it).

    *Of course, this site is filled with threads of people complaining about that very thing, so I guess it doesn't surprise me!
    You can lead a horse to water but you can't make 'em drink.
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 19th Apr 2015 at 13:01.
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  22. Banned
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    let's be blunt: STUPID players that aren't built to spec are gonna not play them correctly.
    Exactly!

    And there are tons of them, software and firmware players and even internet savvy players have issues because of plain stupidity in not bothering to read flags.

    Rotation, color space, levels, PAR, DAR on and on.

    I mean what's so hard for an engineer to read a couple of bloody flags?
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  23. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    I'm being pragmatic too.. Why on earth would anyone want to take an upside down picture or video with an iPhone? I can understand it if it's a sports cam, like GoPro, where mounting constraints sometime require it.

    I say it's definitely what jagabo said. Apple just wants to create a hassle for non-Apple users. It's "Passive Aggression".

    Whether it's easy or hard to deal with by an engineer, misses the point. The point being that you have to turn off screen rotation in order to take a properly flagged picture. You have two features that conflict with each other, and I doubt even Apple users are able to do this workaround, or even conceive of it.

    How on earth does that fit in with "It Just Works"?
    Last edited by budwzr; 19th Apr 2015 at 13:10.
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  24. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Not disagreeing with you there.

    Scott
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