SOME iPhone 6 Videos Show Up Upside Down In Windows 8

[hech54]

My wife is going nuts. All of the videos IN THE PHONE show they are right side Up.....but a few of them insist on being upside down once transferred to her laptop (Windows 8.1). Anyone heard anything about this? I have an iPhone 5 and rarely take video with it anyway.
I'm going to attempt to save them to MY computer later (once I pry her phone from her hands after work) but, anyone heard of this?

[jagabo]

You need to use a player that respects the rotation flags of the MP4 container.

[aedipuss]

she turned the phone the wrong way a few times. use vidcoder(or your favorite) to rotate and re-encode or they might not play right if you share them.

[Cornucopia]

+1 for both above. The phone's player recognizes the rotation flag (which is why it looks ok there), but if other players don't they would show as upside-down. QT player works for sure (and QT pro can be used to correct...with re-encoding, etc).

Scott

[hech54]

So QT Pro re-encodes?

[netmask56]

Make sure your wife knows the iPhone needs to have the big start button located either at the bottom, for holding the camera vertical or to her right when doing a normal landscape view. It's easy to reverse especially if you are left handed. I'm totally ambidextrous and it drove me mad when I first got my iPhone.....

[Cornucopia]

So QT Pro re-encodes?

It can re-encode (although rediculously slowly), remux, or sometimes just do header changes (sometimes in-place, sometimes not).
Re-encoding/remuxing is only available into certain QT-acceptable formats, however (as usual, QT's achille's heel - known by apple as a "feature").

BTW, if the engine is QT-X (aka AV Foundation), bets are off and you are back to square one WRT feature/format/3rdparty options).

Scott

[hech54]

Don't get me wrong guys....I appreciate the help but my wife is THE iPhone expert. My son now has her first iPhone (4S), I have her second iPhone(5S) and she now has a 6 (Plus? - the ridiculously huge one with the insanely huge HDD).
She took about 20 videos at a concert and only two or three of them show up flipped on a PC. She knows her iPhone "etiquette".

Does QT-Pro ALWAYS re-encode when just flipping a video? If it does then I'll just flip them myself.

[Cornucopia]

Since by default iPhones record AVC to MP4 or (more likely) MOV, and Both containers support the rotation/flip flags (being both based on QT MOV file format), as long as you are re-saving (NOT exporting) to MOV/MP4, it should just remux and/or rewrite the headers/flags. Make sure it is a flattened, self-contained file, not a reference file.

Try it yourself with a copy - shoudn't take too long.

Scott

<edit>IIWY, for good knowledge's sake, I would check a before and after with MediaInfo to see whether it is ADDING, EDITING or REMOVING the rotation flag. Could make a diff later on in troubleshooting.

[hech54]

I still haven't been able to pry the phone from my wife's hands.

[budwzr]

My wife has same phone, same issues. Sometimes she turns it the wrong way and it becomes upside down. I don't know why anyone would want to take a picture upside down so it doesn't make sense to even have that kind of "feature". I say it's a bug.

If it isn't a bug, then why is the screen preview not upside down?

And it's hard to get rid of that flag. My photo software doesn't correct it unless I save to a different format.

[jagabo]

I don't know why anyone would want to take a picture upside down so it doesn't make sense to even have that kind of "feature".

Because Apple doesn't care what happens outside their ecosystem. In fact, they probably prefer that things don't work outside their ecosystem. "See, you should have bought a Mac." Apple products aren't about interoperability with the rest of the world. They're about locking you into Apple products. Not having to rotate the image before encoding saves time (better fps, fewer dropped frames) and power when recording.

[budwzr]

Yeah, Apple tried to hose the Los Angeles school system with their toy software, and all hell is breaking loose now.

They did the same crap like the Walter Murch scam. Apple software is not up to par, that's why they have to pay kickbacks.

[hech54]

Finally got my hands on the videos.
I tried several ways to do it but the only sure fire way I found was to load the MOV files into MainConcept and re-encode them to a 16X9 DVD/MPEG2 file. When imported into MainConcept they showed up right side up(correctly).....interesting.

My wife was Windows 8 so she can use a more advanced version of HandBrake , and she found a buried option to flip while transcoding/downsizing for a YouTube upload. She is still afraid they will show up upside down on YouTube so she is keeping my re-encodes just in case.

[hech54]

Original MOV:
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt
File size : 542 MiB
Duration : 4mn 29s
Overall bit rate : 16.9 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2015-04-08 10:41:39
Tagged date : UTC 2015-04-08 10:46:09
Writing application : 8.2
Writing library : Apple QuickTime
com.apple.quicktime.creationdate : 2015-04-08T20:41:39+1000
com.apple.quicktime.model : iPhone 6 Plus
com.apple.quicktime.software : 8.2
com.apple.quicktime.location.ISO : -37.8211+144.9802+011.420/
com.apple.quicktime.make : Apple
©xyz : -37.8211+144.9802+011.420/
Model : iPhone 6 Plus
Make : Apple

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=30
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 4mn 29s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 16.8 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Rotation : 180°
Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 30.000 fps
Minimum frame rate : 30.000 fps
Maximum frame rate : 31.579 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.270
Stream size : 540 MiB (100%)
Title : Core Media Video
Encoded date : UTC 2015-04-08 10:41:39
Tagged date : UTC 2015-04-08 10:46:09
Color primaries : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format version : Version 4
Format profile : LC
Format settings, SBR : No
Format settings, PS : No
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 4mn 29s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 64.0 Kbps
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Channel positions : Front: C
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Stream size : 2.03 MiB (0%)
Title : Core Media Audio
Encoded date : UTC 2015-04-08 10:41:39
Tagged date : UTC 2015-04-08 10:46:09

My MainConcept Re-encode:
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 246 MiB
Duration : 4mn 29s
Overall bit rate : 7 657 Kbps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Duration : 4mn 29s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 5 969 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 9 500 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Bottom Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.576
Stream size : 191 MiB (78%)

Audio
ID : 160 (0xA0)
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Muxing mode : DVD-Video
Duration : 4mn 29s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 49.3 MiB (20%)

[Cornucopia]

Finally got my hands on the videos.
I tried several ways to do it but the only sure fire way I found was to load the MOV files into MainConcept and re-encode them to a 16X9 DVD/MPEG2 file. When imported into MainConcept they showed up right side up(correctly).....interesting.

My wife was Windows 8 so she can use a more advanced version of HandBrake , and she found a buried option to flip while transcoding/downsizing for a YouTube upload. She is still afraid they will show up upside down on YouTube so she is keeping my re-encodes just in case.

So, did QT Pro not work for you? Or did you not have a copy of QT Pro? I had thought you were going to try that route and avoid re-encoding.

Scott

[racer-x]

In case anyone is interested, Apple is set to hit the 1trillion mark before the year is out. Yes there are plenty of dumb people out there all in on Apple's B.S. scheme...

Just my opinion, I wouldn't own an Apple product, unless you paid me a good sum to. My wife on the other hand is all in, go figure.

[hech54]

So, did QT Pro not work for you? Or did you not have a copy of QT Pro? I had thought you were going to try that route and avoid re-encoding.

Scott

Didn't feel like spending $30 to find out. All I got previously was this:

it should just remux and/or rewrite the headers/flags

[jagabo]

Didn't feel like spending $30 to find out. All I got previously was this:

it should just remux and/or rewrite the headers/flags

Changing the rotation flag won't help you. The video is upside down and the flag is already set to 180 degrees. The media player you're using in Windows is ignoring flag and leaving the video upside down. If you change the flag to 0 degrees the Windows player will still ignore the flag and the video will still be upside down. Apple devices will see the new flag and play the video upside down. So you'll only make the situation worse.

The only way to eliminate the problem is to decompress the video, rotate the image, and recompress it.

[budwzr]

The crazy part is that the Apple users mantra is "it just works". Yet in this case it clearly doesn't "just work". The phone's camera preview is not WYSIWYG.

[Cornucopia]

Actually, budwzr, the problem here isn't that it doesn't work in the phone's preview, nor that it is stored without a proper flag, but that OTHER apps aren't built fully to its spec and don't honor the rotation flag. Complaining about that being Apple's fault would be like complaining about some MPEG using non-square pixels, some AVI formats having alpha channels, Dual-mux stereo3D not properly being shown (in either 2D or 3D), or DTS-HD MA not being decoded losslessly.*

All of those format options have elements that are more than PLAIN VANILLA, and let's be blunt: STUPID players that aren't built to spec are gonna not play them correctly. It's they that ought to be improved (in the medium/long term). In the meantime, sounds like this rotation thing would need to end up being hardcoded to plain vanilla (just like anamorphics would have to be redone as square pixel, Alphas would have to have a separate grayscale mask made to use, dual-mux would have to be re-laid out to SbS, DTS-HD MA would have to be decompressed to WAV, etc.). But don't shoot the messenger!

Scott
(BTW, I too have a problem with Apple's "us vs them" attitude, I'm just pragmatic about it).

*Of course, this site is filled with threads of people complaining about that very thing, so I guess it doesn't surprise me!
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make 'em drink.

[newpball]

let's be blunt: STUPID players that aren't built to spec are gonna not play them correctly.

Exactly!

And there are tons of them, software and firmware players and even internet savvy players have issues because of plain stupidity in not bothering to read flags.

Rotation, color space, levels, PAR, DAR on and on.

I mean what's so hard for an engineer to read a couple of bloody flags?

[budwzr]

I'm being pragmatic too.. Why on earth would anyone want to take an upside down picture or video with an iPhone? I can understand it if it's a sports cam, like GoPro, where mounting constraints sometime require it.

I say it's definitely what jagabo said. Apple just wants to create a hassle for non-Apple users. It's "Passive Aggression".

Whether it's easy or hard to deal with by an engineer, misses the point. The point being that you have to turn off screen rotation in order to take a properly flagged picture. You have two features that conflict with each other, and I doubt even Apple users are able to do this workaround, or even conceive of it.

How on earth does that fit in with "It Just Works"?

[Cornucopia]

Not disagreeing with you there.

Scott