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  1. Kerry56 - In your opinion which path (software) in present state would you recommend that does the best job at removing Cinavia. I know that nothing is perfect yet, but just curious to hear your thoughts since you seem to be active and updated on this subject. Thanks.

    Originally Posted by Kerry56 View Post
    Originally Posted by Eltina View Post
    Originally Posted by Kerry56 View Post
    Slysoft has been asked for some type of Cinavia removal for years now, and they've finally come out with something. You'll need both AnyDVD HD and CloneBD to remove the watermark, and you'll lose the HD quality. The process requires converting to AC3 audio with CloneBD.

    There are some samples at MyCE, which you can hear in this article: http://www.myce.com/news/slysoft-removes-cinavia-signal-from-blu-ray-movies-with-anydv...ination-75695/

    I've listened to them several times, and its just not a great solution. The sound has a weird, warbling, echoing effect. This is most evident in the second sample, with the sound from the helicopter.
    Does Any DVD remove Cinavia?
    AnyDVD HD by itself does not remove Cinavia. Their solution is to use AnyDVD HD in combination with CloneBD, converting the audio to AC3 in the process. Its still not great sound.

    DVDFab has introduced a new product to "remove" Cinavia, but you'll need the new Cinavia removal tool plus their Blu-ray copy section of DVDFab or the misnamed Ripper section. DVDFab likes to hit their customers with multiple charges for different modules of the software, though there is a way to buy the entire thing for an enormous price if you wish. The DVDFab removal tool substitutes the audio, and there is no way to know if it comes from other sources, or is one that they have processed themselves from the same Blu-ray movie. So far it doesn't work with DVD's that contain Cinavia, but those are few and far between.
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    Originally Posted by xobituaryx View Post
    Kerry56 - In your opinion which path (software) in present state would you recommend that does the best job at removing Cinavia. I know that nothing is perfect yet, but just curious to hear your thoughts since you seem to be active and updated on this subject. Thanks.
    The best sound that I have heard where the Cinavia is no longer present came from the DVDFab Cinavia removal tool. It is an additional cost module that you can add to the DVDFab Blu-ray Copy section or the DVDFab Ripper section. I have no way to determine the actual source of this audio, but you do have to download the audio stream as you process the video. In that, it is very similar to the DVDRanger solution.

    At the moment DVDRanger offers a greater number of movie database files, so you are more likely to get the audio fixed from them, but DVDFab will probably catch up to them eventually. DVDRanger has a big head start. The sound from DVDRanger is ok too, similar to what you might hear from a 192kb AC3 file, but this won't placate the purists, who want their HD audio.
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  3. Just use a software player that doesn't recognize the watermarks.
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  4. Originally Posted by Kerry56 View Post
    Originally Posted by xobituaryx View Post
    Kerry56 - In your opinion which path (software) in present state would you recommend that does the best job at removing Cinavia. I know that nothing is perfect yet, but just curious to hear your thoughts since you seem to be active and updated on this subject. Thanks.
    The best sound that I have heard where the Cinavia is no longer present came from the DVDFab Cinavia removal tool. It is an additional cost module that you can add to the DVDFab Blu-ray Copy section or the DVDFab Ripper section. I have no way to determine the actual source of this audio, but you do have to download the audio stream as you process the video. In that, it is very similar to the DVDRanger solution.

    At the moment DVDRanger offers a greater number of movie database files, so you are more likely to get the audio fixed from them, but DVDFab will probably catch up to them eventually. DVDRanger has a big head start. The sound from DVDRanger is ok too, similar to what you might hear from a 192kb AC3 file, but this won't placate the purists, who want their HD audio.
    Does that work with DVDFab 8 or will the module only add to DVDFab 9?
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  5. Originally Posted by hogger129 View Post
    Just use a software player that doesn't recognize the watermarks.
    That's all fine and dandy, but not an option at the moment. Hardware is being used.
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  6. Originally Posted by Kerry56 View Post
    Originally Posted by xobituaryx View Post
    Kerry56 - In your opinion which path (software) in present state would you recommend that does the best job at removing Cinavia. I know that nothing is perfect yet, but just curious to hear your thoughts since you seem to be active and updated on this subject. Thanks.
    The best sound that I have heard where the Cinavia is no longer present came from the DVDFab Cinavia removal tool. It is an additional cost module that you can add to the DVDFab Blu-ray Copy section or the DVDFab Ripper section. I have no way to determine the actual source of this audio, but you do have to download the audio stream as you process the video. In that, it is very similar to the DVDRanger solution.

    At the moment DVDRanger offers a greater number of movie database files, so you are more likely to get the audio fixed from them, but DVDFab will probably catch up to them eventually. DVDRanger has a big head start. The sound from DVDRanger is ok too, similar to what you might hear from a 192kb AC3 file, but this won't placate the purists, who want their HD audio.
    Seems That DVD Ranger is more of an all in one and I may go this route. Thanks for the input. I understand this wouldn't please the "purists" as far as sound goes, but it really doesn't have to either. As long as the DVD can playback without a hitch all is well. Thanks again!
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    Originally Posted by hogger129 View Post
    Does that work with DVDFab 8 or will the module only add to DVDFab 9?
    Don't know the answer to this I'm afraid. If I had to guess, I'd say it is only intended for DVDFab 9.


    Originally Posted by xobituaryx View Post
    Seems That DVD Ranger is more of an all in one and I may go this route. Thanks for the input. I understand this wouldn't please the "purists" as far as sound goes, but it really doesn't have to either. As long as the DVD can playback without a hitch all is well. Thanks again!
    The Cinavia solutions from both companies are primarily directed at Blu-ray, not DVD's, though Fab is going to extend their program to include DVD's soon by all reports. The DVDRanger CinEx HD program already includes some DVD's though apparently not PAL versions.
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  8. Originally Posted by Kerry56 View Post
    Originally Posted by hogger129 View Post
    Does that work with DVDFab 8 or will the module only add to DVDFab 9?
    Don't know the answer to this I'm afraid. If I had to guess, I'd say it is only intended for DVDFab 9.


    Originally Posted by xobituaryx View Post
    Seems That DVD Ranger is more of an all in one and I may go this route. Thanks for the input. I understand this wouldn't please the "purists" as far as sound goes, but it really doesn't have to either. As long as the DVD can playback without a hitch all is well. Thanks again!
    The Cinavia solutions from both companies are primarily directed at Blu-ray, not DVD's, though Fab is going to extend their program to include DVD's soon by all reports. The DVDRanger CinEx HD program already includes some DVD's though apparently not PAL versions.
    Good to know about the DVD portion, almost blew my money. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that in a nutshell they take an audio track, clean it up and then you download that audio track and combine it with the video when authoring a blu ray or dvd?
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    Originally Posted by xobituaryx View Post
    Good to know about the DVD portion, almost blew my money. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that in a nutshell they take an audio track, clean it up and then you download that audio track and combine it with the video when authoring a blu ray or dvd?
    No one outside the companies themselves know exactly what is going on with the audio streams that you download. When DVDRanger first debuted their CinEx HD program, many of us suspected that they were simply obtaining clean tracks from other sources, like DVD's without Cinavia, or streaming video which does not have it. Doing it this way, they would just have to get the timing right, since the audio stream might not exactly match the video.

    But with a little testing, a member of the Slysoft forum named Adbear discovered that they were using parts of the original audio from the Blu-ray and sections from some other source. We still don't know the origin of the middle frequencies (the other source), but the very high and very low frequencies seem to be retained from the Blu-ray. It may be that they take the middle frequencies from the Blu-ray also and process it in house to remove the watermark, but no one would like to bet heavily on that chance.

    Whatever the process, the original HD audio is lost. The programs do remux the original video with this new audio and reauthor.

    DVDFab differs from DVDRanger in that they are using LPCM as the final audio stream, rather than AC3.
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  10. Originally Posted by Kerry56 View Post
    Originally Posted by xobituaryx View Post
    Good to know about the DVD portion, almost blew my money. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that in a nutshell they take an audio track, clean it up and then you download that audio track and combine it with the video when authoring a blu ray or dvd?
    No one outside the companies themselves know exactly what is going on with the audio streams that you download. When DVDRanger first debuted their CinEx HD program, many of us suspected that they were simply obtaining clean tracks from other sources, like DVD's without Cinavia, or streaming video which does not have it. Doing it this way, they would just have to get the timing right, since the audio stream might not exactly match the video.

    But with a little testing, a member of the Slysoft forum named Adbear discovered that they were using parts of the original audio from the Blu-ray and sections from some other source. We still don't know the origin of the middle frequencies (the other source), but the very high and very low frequencies seem to be retained from the Blu-ray. It may be that they take the middle frequencies from the Blu-ray also and process it in house to remove the watermark, but no one would like to bet heavily on that chance.

    Whatever the process, the original HD audio is lost. The programs do remux the original video with this new audio and reauthor.

    DVDFab differs from DVDRanger in that they are using LPCM as the final audio stream, rather than AC3.
    I just tried the SoundTouch 2 in DVDRanger since that's all you can use in the free trial and I must say its pretty awful unfortunately. If I shell out any money, I'm hoping that the database stuff is a lot better. :/
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    Back when we were discovering a few things about the DVDRanger CinEx HD program, I uploaded a couple of clips that had been processed through it. You can hear the quality of the output here.

    A few posts down you can also find a clip with the original sound if you want to compare the AC3 and AAC clips to it.
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    SlySoft is no more
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    I've ripped many a Blu-Ray and found no problem with the sound. They constantly update the software.
    Users are really beta testers in that their input is used to make improvements of which many are needed. This is a work in progress.
    Now, it is a mute point as Slysoft is closed.
    Last edited by pepegot1; 24th Feb 2016 at 12:40.
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    Originally Posted by pepegot1 View Post
    I've ripped many a Blu-Ray and found no problem with the sound. They constantly update the software.
    Users are really beta testers in that their input is used to make improvements of which many are needed. This is a work in progress.
    Not any more. As of today, Slysoft is out of the DVD and Blu-Ray ripping business.
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  15. Holy Crap! Does anybody know specifically why they have closed up (Slysoft)?
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    Originally Posted by hogger129 View Post
    Holy Crap! Does anybody know specifically why they have closed up (Slysoft)?
    Slysoft didn't reveal the reason. Perhaps they reached a settlement of some kind and signed a non-disclosure agreement?
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  17. The link from SHS in post #1 of this thread:

    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/377137-Sad-day-for-SlySoft-it-now-RIP?p=2434301#post2434301

    offers some suggestions....
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    Originally Posted by hogger129 View Post
    Holy Crap! Does anybody know specifically why they have closed up (Slysoft)?
    more info here - http://www.myce.com/news/slysoft-is-gone-forever-78664/
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    I hate to ask these semi-newbie questions, but after doing some research, things are not clear to me.

    I have held off getting a burner for this reason, especially after reading reviews over at Amazon where 20% plus of them are negative no matter what brand (same for NewEgg). Drives going back after a short period of time, not getting recognized etc. I realize some are defected and some are user error, but surely not all of them.

    1. What exactly does Cinavia and these three different 'keys' do other than preventing coping BluRay discs?
    2. How is the player affected and is it only when playing that disc?
    3. How is a 'burner' affected and is that only affected when accessing that disc?

    Specifically, is there long term after-effects to your equipment when the drives or players become disabled?
    Last edited by videobruce; 21st Mar 2016 at 07:23. Reason: clarified
    Why are ones and zeros so complicated? Linear Video Editing was easier. Downloading & streaming are two different things.
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    Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
    I hate to ask these semi-newbie questions, but after doing some research, things are not clear to me.

    I have held off getting a burner for this reason, especially after reading reviews over at Amazon where 20% plus of them are negative no matter what brand (same for NewEgg). Drives going back after a short period of time, not getting recognized etc. I realize some are defected and some are user error, but surely not all of them.

    1. What exactly does Cinavia and these three different 'keys' do other than preventing coping BluRay discs?
    2. How is the player affected and is it only when playing that disc?
    3. How is a 'burner' affected and is that only affected when accessing that disc?

    Specifically, is there long term after-effects to your equipment when the drives or players become disabled?
    for #1 - cinavia affects the audio of a copied movie by muting the audio after about 20 minutes into play.
    you either use the cinavia removal tool or best just put your movies on a media player of some kind
    and play them that way. media players are immune to cinavia.
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    put your movies on a media player of some kind
    Specifics?
    Why are ones and zeros so complicated? Linear Video Editing was easier. Downloading & streaming are two different things.
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  22. Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
    1. What exactly does Cinavia and these three different 'keys' do other than preventing coping BluRay discs?
    Cinavia is an inaudible signal in the audio tracks. It doesn't stop you from copying Blu-ray discs. But licensed players (ie commercial hardware and software) will stop playing the discs once they have detected the Cinavia signal.

    Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
    2. How is the player affected and is it only when playing that disc?
    Players with Cinavia detection stop playing the discs (or just the audio) once the signal is detected. Some after 20 minutes, some sooner. There are no other effect on players.

    Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
    3. How is a 'burner' affected and is that only affected when accessing that disc?
    Burners are not effected at all.
    Last edited by jagabo; 21st Mar 2016 at 08:51.
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    The reason for Q3 is the number of reports on drives going bad either after initial use or within the 1st year.
    Why are ones and zeros so complicated? Linear Video Editing was easier. Downloading & streaming are two different things.
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    Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
    I hate to ask these semi-newbie questions, but after doing some research, things are not clear to me.

    I have held off getting a burner for this reason, especially after reading reviews over at Amazon where 20% plus of them are negative no matter what brand (same for NewEgg). Drives going back after a short period of time, not getting recognized etc. I realize some are defected and some are user error, but surely not all of them.

    1. What exactly does Cinavia and these three different 'keys' do other than preventing coping BluRay discs?
    2. How is the player affected and is it only when playing that disc?
    3. How is a 'burner' affected and is that only affected when accessing that disc?

    Specifically, is there long term after-effects to your equipment when the drives or players become disabled?
    I have owned a Pioneer Blu-ray burner for 3 years. People who have bad results with their Blu-ray burner were either unlucky enough to get a bad unit, or use crap media and crap burner software. Half of those who return their burner do so because they don't realize that they need to buy player software to watch movies on their PC. If you want a Blu-ray burner get one.

    1. Cinavia is for DRM, period. The Cinavia audio signature is present in the the portion of the audio spectrum that humans can hear but humans can't detect it, and it doesn't damage the playback hardware.

    2. If Cinavia is detected on a copied or bootleg disk, the hardware or software player mutes the audio after 20 minutes. This does not damage the player or the drive or affect how it handles subsequent discs.

    3. The burner/drive firmware doesn't detect Cinavia and the burner/drive isn't affected by Cinavia. Cinavia detection is performed by a hardware player's operating system or PC player software.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 21st Mar 2016 at 10:39. Reason: typo
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    Half of those who return their burner do so because they don't realize that they need to buy player software to watch movies on their PC.
    I pretty much deduced this. I was worried about the other half.

    Now how about the deal with these 'keys' and this BD+? Any fallout from those long term?
    Why are ones and zeros so complicated? Linear Video Editing was easier. Downloading & streaming are two different things.
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    Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
    Half of those who return their burner do so because they don't realize that they need to buy player software to watch movies on their PC.
    I pretty much deduced this. I was worried about the other half.

    Now how about the deal with these 'keys' and this BD+? Any fallout from those long term?
    Blu-ray encryption can be adjusted for new movies as they are released. This was intended to slow down piracy, but AnyDVD, DVDFab and MakeMKV have been able to keep up with these changes. It sometimes takes a few days or perhaps a week for the decryption programs to work out the solutions, but so far, they have been effective. AnyDVD is back by the way...under the name Redfox AnyDVD.

    For those who had a license for AnyDVD HD, it seems those copies will no longer be updated to work with the online database after April 30, 2016. If you want to continue to use AnyDVD HD in the future, you'll need to buy a new license, and it looks like there will not be a lifetime version offered. http://www.myce.com/news/redfox-addresses-slysoft-license-conserns-78918/

    If you have an authorized software player, like PowerDVD, you should receive updates to allow you to continue playing new movies when newer versions of encryption are released. The updates may not be very timely however, and eventually they stop updating older versions of the software. Stand alone players are sometimes affected by this as well, as the manufacturers stop pushing new firmware for them to deal with newer encryption. All of which is a good reason to rip and play from burned discs or usb drives instead.
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    If you have an authorized software player, like PowerDVD, you should receive updates to allow you to continue playing new movies when newer versions of encryption are released.
    Would any of these players work w/o (disabled) an Internet connection? And does this affect 'ripping'??
    Why are ones and zeros so complicated? Linear Video Editing was easier. Downloading & streaming are two different things.
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    The software players will work without an internet connection. But you will need to download updates to the programs when those are released.

    Software players have no connection to ripping your discs. Ripping means copying the contents of the discs onto your hard drive in your computer. Some people misuse the term to mean conversion of the contents into different formats. But neither process uses movie player software like PowerDVD or WinDVD.

    One of the biggest problems with playing ripped/converted versions of Blu-ray is, of course, the Cinavia protection that they have added to some movies. The best solution for those is to use a player that will not recognize the Cinavia signal. Media streaming boxes are a popular choice, though I also use software players that do not obey the Cinavia trigger, like Media Player Classic Home Cinema.
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    Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
    Half of those who return their burner do so because they don't realize that they need to buy player software to watch movies on their PC.
    I pretty much deduced this. I was worried about the other half.

    Now how about the deal with these 'keys' and this BD+? Any fallout from those long term?
    Licensed Blu-ray player software doesn't have problems with the keys you are worried about or BD+, and offers full menu support. Unlicensed paid players from companies like DVDFab and free players don't have perfect menu support, even if some can handle DRM including Cinavia without problems.

    When a paid software player no longer qualifies for updates, upgrading software to a newer version costs less if you take advantage of special offers. Otherwise DVDFab Passkey for Blu-ray can sometimes extend the useful life of software players, but it isn't free.
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    I also use software players that do not obey the Cinavia trigger, like Media Player Classic Home Cinema.
    Good to know, I have that, as I do VLC Player, but I have been using Light Alloy for some time since their interface is nicer.

    Regarding these 'keys', I was under the impression that there had to be some communication between the disc, player & the Internet as there is with HDMI (handshake) for the player to be allowed to 'play'. That is not the case at all??
    Why are ones and zeros so complicated? Linear Video Editing was easier. Downloading & streaming are two different things.
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