Video/Audio sync problems with Hauppauge USB-Live2 & Vdub

[liddle]

I am trying to capture VHS to uncompressed AVI using just virtualdub through a Hauppauge USB-Live2 capture device.
In a 20-second test clip I am getting a 2.5-seconds mismatch between the video and audio streams.
I have a lot of tapes I want to digitize. I don't want to have to fix video/audio sync discrepancies for each one, if it can be avoided. I'd rather spend time on other parts of the project.

-Win7-64bit
-installed Hauppauge driver but none of the Hauppage capture software, like WinTV.
-temporarily set antivirus to off and malware suite setting to game mode

VCR --> S-video out --> AVT-8710 (also tried without but that didn't help sync issue) --> Hauppauge USB-Live2 --> USB2 motherboard port

VCR --> R/L stereo audio cable Y-adapter --> line in port of Creative X-Fi Titanium sound card

-saving as AVI on an internal RAID 0 drive
-various audio capture rates tried, latest 44000 16-bit pcm, same results
-NTSC-M YUY2 29.97

Playing back the captured file in VLC. So far, video looks fine (for the moment), and no dropped frames being reported; audio sounds fine, too, but out of sync by 2.5 seconds.

I have tried numerous permutations of the timing settings, each still producing out-of-sync captures.

Looking through Amazon.com reviews for the Hauppauge USB-Live2, it seems that a number of people have had audio sync problems with this capture device, especially with Virtualdub. There have also been posts about this on this board and other boards (although, I assume that some of those posts are from some of the same people who described problems in the Amazon reviews).

Has anyone figured out what specific vdub settings will work in this scenario (Win 7, etc) for audio and video in sync?

Incidentally, I have seen someone reporting that they were able to successfully capture in sync using AmarecTV.
I'd rather use free software if I can find something that will work. But if I have no choice other than to purchase capture software, I'll do it. Is it possible to capture raw/uncompressed AVI using AmarecTV?

[usually_quiet]

Try capturing the audio with the USB-Live 2. Your sound card is a likely candidate as the cause for the 2.5 second audio delay.

You won't know if AmaRecTV works properly with your setup until you try it. There is no reason not to try it, if you are curious about it. AmaRecTV's download is portable. There is no installer/uninstaller to worry about. AmaRecTV is free software. You don't need to buy the AMV2MT/AMV3 codec pack to use AmaRecTV. Other lossless codecs, like the Ut Video Codec Suite, may be installed and used. (Select "Other Codec". Click "Update Codec List", and pick what you want from the list.)

I don't see a way to capture uncompressed video with AmaRecTV, but uncompressed video capture is unnecessary.

[hech54]

I successfully captured lossless with VDub once or twice with my USB|Live2....too complicated for me. I switched to capturing with DScaler. Not sure if that is an option for you since I capture with XP Pro.

[jagabo]

Try capturing the audio with the USB-Live 2. Your sound card is a likely candidate as the cause for the 2.5 second audio delay.

Exactly. And don't use any audio compression. You should use a fast lossless video encoder though -- try huffyuv or ut video codec.

[TimA-C]

I use AmarecTV to capture svideo with my USB Live2 in 64-bit Windows Home Premium to Lagarith AVI and NEVER have audio sync problems. Gave up on VDub for capturing (and Dscaler and VirtualVCR etc. etc. etc.) but use it for editing the captured .avi files. Capture audio through the Live2 NOT your soundcard. (I think I found AmarecTV as a result of a number of posts from Hech54 some time ago. Thanks, Hech.)

[liddle]

For some reason, I have been unable to capture audio through the Hauppauge itself.
No problem (other than sync issues) if I use the sound card, but capture refuses to start if I try through the Hauppauge instead.



And even before starting to attempt the capture, the video preview screen doesn't light up in blue the way it does while idling before a successful capture attempt. Instead, it just stays black while idling. When starting to attempt to capture, it flashes black (?and brown) a few times but just spits out the error message.

VCR --> S-video out --> AVT-8710 (also tried without but that didn't help sync issue) --> Hauppauge USB-Live2 --> USB2 motherboard port

VCR --> R audio --> Hauppauge USB-Live2 along with
VCR --> L audio --> Hauppauge USB-Live 2

same when tried composite video with the audio via the Hauppauge

[usually_quiet]

Did you try WinTV with the USB-Live 2, using the USB-Live 2 for both video an audio, just to see if the USB-Live 2 is not broken for audio capture? Did you look at the USB-Live 2 drivers in Device Manager to see if they installed correctly?

[liddle]

Haven't tried Ut, or AmarecTV yet.

This is S-video/sound card huffyuv (vdub 1.10.4 build 35491 for x86; huffyuv 2.1.1). It's a home-recorded vhs from a tv broadcast.

[liddle]

Just tried AmarecTV with lagarith, S-video/sound card. In a very preliminary test, looks like it is working. And I think there IS an option for uncompressed AVI. Will have to double-check that.

[liddle]

Turns out that the "uncompressed" option I was looking at was for audio. I don't see any option for uncompressed AVI.
And the video generated using lagarith is about 150MB, compared to 3x larger files when I was using vdub for uncompressed AVI.

[manono]

And the video generated using lagarith is about 150MB, compared to 3x larger files when I was using vdub for uncompressed AVI.

Which is why usually_quiet said you don't need to use uncompressed. You're okay with using lossless, right? Check the configure options in Lagarith to make sure you're not capping in RGB.

[TimA-C]

Both Lagarith & Huffyuv are lossless, i.e. NO loss of quality! i.e. The same quality as uncompressed avi! Both Lagarith and Huffyuv require a bit more CPU horsepower to both encode and decode than uncompressed avi, but, unless your PC/Laptop is REALLY underpowered, this shouldn't be an issue. Lagarith gives slightly smaller file sizes than Huffyuv but it also requires slightly more CPU power to process. There are other lossless codecs out there, but I haven't had much experience (if any) with most of them, so I don't really feel qualified to discuss them. Once captured in Amarec, edit in Vdub (I usually output the audio at this point either as a .wav or a compressed .ac3 file depending what I'm doing with the final video) then process and encode the video using an avisynth script and suitable encoder. Then remux the resulting video and audio files. Good luck!

[Alyosha2001]

Good evening! I can't figure out how to solve the delay issue, I'm trying to capture from a Magnum VCR via composite in Hauppauge USB-live 2 in Windows 8.1.
I capture a 3 hour cassette and near the end the delay is about 5 frames (100 msec). Measured it in Premiere. It is not constant, but progressively grows, so I can't just shift the audio.

Tried VirtualDub 1 and 2, x86 and x64 and AmaRecTV.

Since I swapped the Geforce 1070 with RTX2060S, the OBS screen is black and the led-s on usb-live2 do not turn on, so can't use it.

Before the USB-live2 I had a Compro VideoMate C200 that I used with OBS and captured tens of Hi8's without any desync.

In AmaRec I tried both CX23100 Audio and Video Capture settings in Audio Capture Device with the same outcome. In VirtualDub I can only select "0 Capture Device" as all others (Analog Audio In and Hauppauge CX23100 Audio Capture) make the screen go blank.

Sorry to revive an old thread but the facts are the one within it

[lollo]

Do you have dropped/inserted frames in your capture?

[Alyosha2001]

I don't know, the capture software reported no dropped frames.

How to check for those?

[lollo]

At the end of the log file of AmarecTV after a capture you should have something like:

VT=00:34:15.644s(61589f), Cap=61681f( 14D), Enc= 2.205ms, Siz= 348KB( 51%)KEY, Drp=0, (+)0, (-)0, Buf= 1

Have a look here for a guide on AmarecTV settings:
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/12986-amarectv-virtualdub-inserts.html

With AmarecTV and the Hauppauge USB-Live 2 I never had asynch audio/video, while with VirtualDub I had the problem.

[Alyosha2001]

Thanks! I didn't have the log enabled, I am starting a new capture right now.
May I ask which of the audio devices do you choose?

[lollo]

I choose "Hauppauge Cx23100" audio capture.

Stange options in your "Audio Capture Device" windows. I suggest to remove the drivers and reinstall them before capturing. Use version 6.0.119.36075 (attached). I am on Windows 10 but it should be ok.

driver10_6_0_119_36075.zip

[Alyosha2001]

I uninstalled the old drivers (from 2014), installed the new ones from 2018, downloaded the 3.10 version of amarec (was using 2.31, don't know why) and I captured about an hour and 24 minutes until the VCR started to show noise in portions that were cleaner before. I can't find a solid point to verify now the audio sync, like a drop or a sharp clean bump (a drop of a coin in the water or a bump of a metal ring). Will try again next week.

The audio devices in amarec capture are the same as last time, no changes.

About the log, the 14 meg txt file ends with something like this:
"Compression : FourCC=HYMT, Description=Huffyuv v2.1.1 - Multi-Threading Patch v1.0
Setting : 720*576, 25,00fps
Original Video Size: 99983MByte
Compress video Size: 44661MByte(44%, 1/2,239), 9045KB/s(72360kbps)
Frame count=126399f, Drp= 0f, Avg Enc=5,264ms, Avg Cmp= 44%". So it says 0 drops.

Edit: there delay is there.

[lollo]

OK, let us know your progress.

In the log file check the last video frame report, as I posted before, to verify dropped/inserted frames.

After a heavy damaged portions in the tape it may happen to loose synch. Capture before and after the problem in 2 separate segments.

Do not use hacked HuffYUV codec, but original one https://www.videohelp.com/download/huffyuv-2.1.1.zip

[Alyosha2001]

Thanks, have a blessed week end!

[Alyosha2001]

Came back, sorry for the delay! Had to deliver the tapes with the capture, so I don't have them anymore. Did another interesting thing, though.

Found this thread of comparison between the Elgato Video Capture and Hauppauge usb live 2 https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/378152-Elgato-Video-Capture-vs-Hauppauge-610-USB-L...Raw-Comparison. The interesting thing is I analyzed the captures in Premiere and found that in ALL 3 examples there is an 8 frames delay between them, the hauppauge being the delayed one. So I think they (usb live2 cards) are flawed. I'm a video editor and was picky on that, I know that most others don't care about it.

Do you have a small extract from an at least one hour capture with a solid audio video mark to take a look at it?

[lollo]

Do you have a small extract from an at least one hour capture with a solid audio video mark to take a look at it?

Here the extract, and a/v are in synch.

x.avi

I shifted the video compared to audio 8 frames before (x2.avi) and 8 frames later (x3.avi) and the a/v are asynch in both.

x2.avi

x3.avi

video=AviSource("x.avi")

# use audio from original clip
audio=video

video2=video.trim(8,0)

video3=video.loop(9,0,0)

video2a=audioDub(video2, audio)

video3a=audioDub(video3, audio)

#stackhorizontal(video, video2)
#stackhorizontal(video, video3)

return(video3a)

[Alyosha2001]

3 things: I'm not sure about the audio being 100& captured on location and synced or being dubbed in some extend, but as it seems to be on a set it could be a boom audio.
There is hoewer a 2 frames delay of the audio from the video (opposite to my video delay).
Your capture is already deinterlaced at 25 fps (not 50) so that should be 4 frames in our case, so close to my 3 hour - 5 frames.
I really think more and more that they are flawed and meant to work just win their sw.

EDIT: uploaded the corrected one

[lollo]

I have no clue on what you are telling or trying to prove.

The original video is PAL 50 interlaced frames per second, 25 frames per second, broadcasted by a TV, recorded on a VCR and captured. More precisely, the fields are coming from the same moment in time (telecined PAL from 24p film), so they are sort of "progressive".

There is no audio asynch in all of my Hauppauge USB-Live 2 captures (>200 tapes).

About the asynch you experimented, you should have the indication on how to solve your issues in the last posts (capture software choice, capture software settings, VCR choice, PC settings, etc.). I ignore your workflow, but you really need a high end VCR with a lineTBC and, if you experience many inserted and/or dropped frames, also a frameTBC for a good and synch capture.

[Traderbam]

Related to the previous comments on this thread...

I'm making reasonable progress with VirtualDub 1.9.11 capturing from Sony Digital 8 (with TBC/NR enabled) directly into a Hauppauge USB-Live2. I noticed some frame inserts which always seemed to be at the start of the capture, which then knocked the audio sync out. I've disabled the insert frames option in "Capture timing options" which seemed to resolve the issue in a test capture. Is there any other risk associated with disabling this setting?

I'm unclear which of the options apply for this capture card. Is there a particular resync mode that is best? I couldn't really get my head around the options in the guides.

Another strange thing with the USB-live is that I can only capture successfully when the audio device is set to "Capture device". If I set "analog audio in (Hauppauge)" or "Hauppage Cx23100 Audio Capture" I get an error that capturing can not be started. Is this audio setting appropriate and expected.

Here are my settings...

Thanks.

[lollo]

Your settings for VirtualDub and USB-Live 2 are quite correct. Do not remove the option "insert frame". Here are mines (generic, i sometimes tune them):



When a glitch in the tape appears, or when you capture for long time VirtualDub may loose synch with integrated audio/video capture cards, whatever setting you may try.

If you experience that, use AmarecTV instead.

[Alwyn]

Another strange thing with the USB-live is that I can only capture successfully when the audio device is set to "Capture device".

That's pretty standard across all the USB digitisers.

AmarecTV guide hot off the press:

http://aaproductions.net/amarectv.htm

[Traderbam]

Thanks both. Unchecking the "insert frames" option does seem to prevent the audio sync issues. It only seemed to happen during the "blue" camcorder menu screen just after hitting play, before any video appears. Perhaps I need to wait until I see something on display before capturing which might solve it.

"Capture device" as audio device is definitely expected then over the two options that actually refer to Hauppauge?

[lollo]

Unchecking the "insert frames" option does seem to prevent the audio sync issues. It only seemed to happen during the "blue" camcorder menu screen just after hitting play, before any video appears. Perhaps I need to wait until I see something on display before capturing which might solve it.

If you disable that option, the danger is that if VirtualDub or AmarecTV need to insert a frame to keep a/v synch, won't be able to do.

In the excellent guide provided by Alwin, enable the option "Make a report file" to have at the end of the capture an accurate report of what happened during the capture.