V-Nova a new video codec 50% more efficient than hevc

[Cornucopia]

Interview with the developers: h.260 h261 h262 h263 h264 h265 re all based on the ideas and concepts of the 1970s.

It will have much better compression than HEVC, and faster than h264.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCNFUZIzjqc

And we've seen how much of a flop those concepts have been?! Seriously?! Would that we could all be so disappointing.


Scott

[Stears555]

Interview with the developers: h.260 h261 h262 h263 h264 h265 re all based on the ideas and concepts of the 1970s.

It will have much better compression than HEVC, and faster than h264.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCNFUZIzjqc

And we've seen how much of a flop those concepts have been?! Seriously?! Would that we could all be so disappointing.


Scott

Hello Cornucopia!

Did you watch the video?

HEVC has no future, because it can't fulfill the requirements of UHD broadcasts. In the reality HEVC is only 25% better (more efficient) than AVC, which is simply not enough good for UHD broadcasters.

[-Habanero-]

Interview with the developers: h.260 h261 h262 h263 h264 h265 re all based on the ideas and concepts of the 1970s.

It will have much better compression than HEVC, and faster than h264.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCNFUZIzjqc

That's an oversimplification. You may as well say that they're all concepts of the 1950s because that's when all the math for the advanced fourier transforms and DCT was developed which it is all based on.

If you're trying to say H.265 is an advancement of an outdated method, you're right but every single alternative transform has been vaporware or failed to deliver better quality. Wavelet-based codecs failed on all except a select few rare circumstances, object-based codecs have all been vaporware. Simply, no method has been able to compete with the highly-mature DCT that's been refined the past 60 years to be what it is now. It took the first 30 years just to automate it. Before that, encoding had to be done by hand.
Until object-based codecs can also be automatic, they are useless.

I'll believe this V-Nova codec when I see it.

[david55]

v-nova at airshow in Paris

[david55]

More about v-nova demonstration at Paris airshow .

V-Nova’s PERSEUS® signal compression technology powers Airbus Group 3D Experience at Paris Air Show 2015

http://www.airbusgroup.com/int/en/innovation-environment/latest-news/A-look-into-the-f...abilities.html

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2015/06/prweb12797879.htm

[Gravitator]

It is interesting to know how much it's convenient (comfortable to the eye) to view videos through these helmets?

[Stears555]

It is interesting to know how much it's convenient (comfortable to the eye) to view videos through these helmets?

Interestingly, the typical loud self-appointed "scholar" forum members of videohelp despised the Perseus codec.... However serious industry leader companies support and trust in V-nova.

http://www.frame-25.com/video-compression-software-perseus/
Anyone else involved?

Yes, V-Nova is part of a broad and growing consortium of over 20 global industry leaders, including:

Broadcom
European Broadcasting Union (EBU)
Encompass
Intel
Hitachi
Sky Italia
Wyplay

[poisondeathray]

Interestingly, the typical loud self-appointed "scholar" forum members of videohelp despised the Perseus codec.... However serious industry leader companies support and trust in V-nova.

http://www.frame-25.com/video-compression-software-perseus/
Anyone else involved?

Yes, V-Nova is part of a broad and growing consortium of over 20 global industry leaders, including:

Broadcom
European Broadcasting Union (EBU)
Encompass
Intel
Hitachi
Sky Italia
Wyplay

It looks promising, I'm very exciting if it becomes reality . Some reputable companies have associated with them, so it might eventually come out of the vapourware phase... only time will tell

But who "despises" the codec? Not many people have seen demonstration or tests, outside of select clients. How can anyone "despise" something that is vapourware? Wouldn't it be great if it actually worked as well as they say ? Even if the claims are 50% true, that's still very good. I think people are just dubious of claims without any proof.

Is it not reasonable to ask for proof ?

I'll give you an analogy hopefully you can understand . If Russia "claims" it was the Ukrainians that shot down an airplane , is it not reasonable to investigate or ask for proof ? Or do we just assume the Ukrainians shot it down because the Russians made those claims ? The company that made the alleged weapon is an industry leader says so . So do we just blindly believe they are correct because they are "experts" in the field ? Or do we ask for proof and investigate with an unbiased 3rd party?

The past is a good predictor of the future. Many companies have claimed "XYZ codec" does this and that, but only 0.01% ever materialize or become commercialized instead of being vapourware . Hopefully V-Nova is in that 0.01% .

HEVC has made many claims of x% more efficient than AVC - but how did that turn out ? It turns out that only in some situations, such as very low bitrate or UHD and higher resolutions is that claim valid right now.

In what circumstatnces does v-nova outperform HEVC ? What is wrong with asking for more information ?

[Cornucopia]

Yeah, but WHICH industry? EBU we know and expect to see. Broadcom & Intel would be involved in any computer<->communications link, maybe Hitachi also. But Encompass & Sky Italia & Wyplay are, for all their bluster & self-promotion, Small Potatoes and NOT what anyone outside of Central Europe would call "Global Industry Leaders" in the world of media. Notice that there are no Camera/Equipment manufacturers and no major media Publishers on the list, nor top tier ISPs, nor large IT corporations (other than what I mentioned).

It's been since NAB (April) that Perseus has been hawked, but EVERY (I just checked) bit of info & new release has been the same single talking point (with EXACTLY the same verbiage) and the same "managerial bios" fluff, without a SINGLE bit of technical information and without a single A/B demonstration. Oh, and without releasing any info about how/where a user can get a codec. That's a long lead in for - so far - NOTHING.

Put up or shut up!

Nobody "Despises" the codec (yet?). We just despise stupid attempts to sell what appears to be snake oil. If you @Stears555 or @david55 (what's with all the 5s?) have some further knowledge and demos of this codec and it's all it is cracked up to be, don't you think we would heartily welcome it? So what's the problem with actually showing something for all your bombast. Without EVIDENCE, it would appear you are just being shills, and bad ones at that. You can only pull the wool over unsuspecting suckers for so long, and here there be many skeptics (in a good way).

Scott

[david55]

It is interesting to know how much it's convenient (comfortable to the eye) to view videos through these helmets?

Interestingly, the typical loud self-appointed "scholar" forum members of videohelp despised the Perseus codec.... However serious industry leader companies support and trust in V-nova.

http://www.frame-25.com/video-compression-software-perseus/
Anyone else involved?

Yes, V-Nova is part of a broad and growing consortium of over 20 global industry leaders, including:

Broadcom
European Broadcasting Union (EBU)
Encompass
Intel
Hitachi
Sky Italia
Wyplay

People have every right to be skeptical about claims such as v-nova even if they list biggest companies on planet as their partner or customer .until they provide tangible evidence about their claim I would be skeptical too , but that doesn't prevent me to keep an eye on them.

[david55]

PERSEUS powers HD video telemetry for Airbus Group’s E-Fan electric aircraft on its Historic English Channel Crossing .

http://www.aviationpros.com/press_release/12092961/v-novas-perseusr-powers-hd-video-te...annel-crossing

http://www.onscreenasia.com/article/perseus-powers-hd-video-telemetry-for-e-fan-electr...aircraft/18427

http://www.displaydaily.com/press-release/27656-v-nova-s-perseus-powers-hd-video-telem...6kS8k.linkedin

[KarMa]

Hello Cornucopia!

Did you watch the video?

HEVC has no future, because it can't fulfill the requirements of UHD broadcasts. In the reality HEVC is only 25% better (more efficient) than AVC, which is simply not enough good for UHD broadcasters.

Comparing AVC encoders to HEVC encoders is like apples and oranges. AVC encoders have had 12 years to optimize their methods to make the absolute most out of the standard, and that well is runing dry. HEVC encoders have had ~2 years to optimize, which is not long, and much noticeable improvement is happening monthly from the x265 team. We have yet to make the most out of the HEVC standard.

I really doubt this "25% better than AVC", especially at 4K which is where HEVC is more efficient because of its huge 64x64 macroblocks. HEVC becomes more efficient at larger resolutions compared to 1080p and below.

You can also find a 4K - HEVC broadcast stream test done on the Astra 2A satellite. It had a bitrate of 16Mbit and can be found in torrent form if you search for "SES.4K.Test.Transmission.2160p.UHDTV.h265"

[compscistudent]

Here is another clip with a demonstration of the codec and a short explanation:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAM2-Vsoahk

He said they match the data rate to the visual detail in parts of the image and they use, essentially, multithreading to decode(which I doubt is new).

Thread on doom9 on this too: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1730162

Wow Here are some actual technical details, focusing on changing to support multiple cores instead of a continuous bitstream:
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1326323

[LigH.de]

Here is another clip with a demonstration of the codec and a short explanation...

Academic samples. Only partially convincing.

[KarMa]

Here is another clip with a demonstration of the codec and a short explanation:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAM2-Vsoahk

Ignoring the fact that I'm having to do a side by side comparison through the BBC, on a sample video that does not seem to be public. That water ripple video is not very demanding, as 90% of the screen is stagnate. Not very promising.

[david55]

V-Nova will have a public demonstration at IBC2015 .

http://www.streamingmediaglobal.com/Articles/Editorial/Featured-Articles/V-Nova-Gains-...BC-105769.aspx

http://www.satnews.com/story.php?number=905329850&menu=1

[david55]

V-Nova Advance PERSEUS Video Compression Performance with Support for NVIDIA GPUs

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/v-nova-advance-perseus-video-140000056.html

http://www.streetwisereport.com/nvidia-corporation-nasdaqnvda-swings-on-release-of-per...aqadat/126358/

http://www.rapidtvnews.com/2015082639620/v-nova-adds-nvidia-gpu-support-for-perseus-vi...#axzz3juxPqfdv

[KarMa]

V-Nova will have a public demonstration at IBC2015 .

http://www.streamingmediaglobal.com/Articles/Editorial/Featured-Articles/V-Nova-Gains-...BC-105769.aspx

http://www.satnews.com/story.php?number=905329850&menu=1

Hope it's a better demonstration then the one on the BBC video, with the still background and the little bit of water ripple. Assuming that the video was being compressed with this magic codec at all.

[david55]

V-Nova announced their plan for IBC2015

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20150901005055/en/IBC-2015-V-Nova-PERSEUS-Demons...e#.VeYEDna0Kku

Voddler Group AB the cloud streaming innovator, today announced that it is entering a Sales and Marketing Partnership with V-Nova

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2015/08/prweb12930431.htm

[david55]

V-Nova to work with Alcatel-Lucent and Oregan Networks

V-Nova Ltd., a leading provider of video compression solutions, announced today that Alcatel-Lucent plans to integrate PERSEUS video compression technology with its Cloud DVR platform and Oregan’s Multiscreen Cloud Video Client.
http://advanced-television.com/2015/09/07/v-nova-to-work-with-alcatel-lucent-and-oregan-networks/

[Stears555]

Financial Times about Perseus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbEQx-dJG0k

[Stears555]

The backward HEVC won't have bright future...

[david55]

The backward HEVC won't have bright future...

Even if PERSEUS wasn't there HEVC still wouldn't have a bright future many giant company are coming together against HEVC .

Web giants gang up to take on MPEG LA, HEVC Advance with royalty-free streaming codec
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/01/alliance_for_open_media/

[Cornucopia]

Dream on...

[Stears555]

Dream on...

Do not forget: Leading industrial companies (like NVIDIA) trust in Perseus.

[anana]

HEVC has no future, because it can't fulfill the requirements of UHD broadcasts. In the reality HEVC is only 25% better (more efficient) than AVC, which is simply not enough good for UHD broadcasters.

The backward HEVC won't have bright future...

hevc's future

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9152/futureproofing-htpcs-for-the-4k-era-hdmi-hdcp-and-hevc
http://www.techradar.com/news/video/blu-ray/this-is-what-the-4k-ultra-hd-blu-ray-forma...k-like-1279902
http://4k.com/news/4k-blu-ray-disc-standards-being-finalized-5652/

[Cornucopia]

The backward HEVC won't have bright future...

Even if PERSEUS wasn't there HEVC still wouldn't have a bright future many giant company are coming together against HEVC .

Web giants gang up to take on MPEG LA, HEVC Advance with royalty-free streaming codec
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/01/alliance_for_open_media/

No, they are NOT coming together against HEVC, they are coming together against the exhorbitant licensing costs of HEVC by MPEG LA.
Part of this could just be a ploy to get MPEG LA to drop/revise the rate to AVC-type levels (quite common strategy), the other would be a way to bypass the use of HEVC in their domains (and the resulting fees) by using patent-free FOSS technology.

Note, however, that in NEITHER case does it say anything about abandoning HEVC for certain applications/devices/chains (remember, these are "web giants", and this is in reference to web usage alone). HEVC is still going to be the ONLY game in town for UHD-BD. And there are upcoming cameras/phonecams that likely will be strictly using HEVC for their 4k/UHD capture storage needs. That's still HUGE, even if the tide turns for the web.

Note also, that the FOSS tech they are referring to would be an amalgamation of existing/current Thor, Daala & VP10. No way would they be using Perseus, since it is neither FOSS, nor (probably) even as cheap to license as HEVC.

Stop parroting the V-Nova corporate line and presenting company cheerleading press releases as "news". There is nothing unbiased about anything that has been put out by V-Nova, YET. These continued "reportings" are just making you look as ridiculous as Stears555.

Scott

[poisondeathray]

MPEG-LA fees are reasonable. HEVC Advance on top of that aren't reasonable fees

Competition is good for end user

[david55]

The backward HEVC won't have bright future...

Even if PERSEUS wasn't there HEVC still wouldn't have a bright future many giant company are coming together against HEVC .

Web giants gang up to take on MPEG LA, HEVC Advance with royalty-free streaming codec
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/01/alliance_for_open_media/

No, they are NOT coming together against HEVC, they are coming together against the exhorbitant licensing costs of HEVC by MPEG LA.
Part of this could just be a ploy to get MPEG LA to drop/revise the rate to AVC-type levels (quite common strategy), the other would be a way to bypass the use of HEVC in their domains (and the resulting fees) by using patent-free FOSS technology.

Note, however, that in NEITHER case does it say anything about abandoning HEVC for certain applications/devices/chains (remember, these are "web giants", and this is in reference to web usage alone). HEVC is still going to be the ONLY game in town for UHD-BD. And there are upcoming cameras/phonecams that likely will be strictly using HEVC for their 4k/UHD capture storage needs. That's still HUGE, even if the tide turns for the web.

Note also, that the FOSS tech they are referring to would be an amalgamation of existing/current Thor, Daala & VP10. No way would they be using Perseus, since it is neither FOSS, nor (probably) even as cheap to license as HEVC.

Stop parroting the V-Nova corporate line and presenting company cheerleading press releases as "news". There is nothing unbiased about anything that has been put out by V-Nova, YET. These continued "reportings" are just making you look as ridiculous as Stears555.

Scott

You can think whatever you want but simple message of this alliance is that they fed up with HEVC licensing and seriously trying to make a better video codec and if they succeed there is not any obstacle to prevent that codec be used in other application beside web .and by the way Cisco and Intel aren't ''web giants'' they are hardware company and I assure you there would be many company like them that join this alliance .

And about reporting news about v-nova , if decision of a multi billion dollar telecom company like Alcatel-Lucent for integrating PERSEUS video codec into their products is not news for you I don't know what is . you have right to be skeptical about v-nova but you don't have right to force your belief on others by censuring news about v-nova and if that is annoying, you just can stop reading this thread . This thread is about reporting anything concerning v-nova , that does not mean I'm not skeptical of their claims .ultimately there would be independent test and evaluation that will shine light on claims of v-nova .

[david55]

NTT DATA Global IT Innovator integrates PERSEUS into their solutions for linear and on-demand encoding.

http://emea.nttdata.com/it/news/

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ntt-data-integrates-v-nova-130000981.html

NTT DATA and V-Nova will showcase the PERSEUS-enabled Hyper transcoding solution on the NTT Group stand (2.C58) at IBC 2015, Amsterdam