artifacting?

[LMotlow]

The person who burned the download might not have changed anything, so likely the person who made it from DVD is the villain.

[Coffindan]

The person who burned the download might not have changed anything, so likely the person who made it from DVD is the villain.

Exactly what is going on here.

[LMotlow]

Took a break here and looked up more work from Brunello Rondi (Ah. La Dolce Vita! Marcello, where are you when we need you?). The 688x384 samples are 1.791:1 aspect ratio. Yeah, this AR was used for a few European films, but Il Demonio was shot at 1:85:1. So whoever borked the DVD made mistake #485-B and resized for an AR of 1.77778:1 and got 1.79. After resizing a few frames from the sample, it appears that it should be 1.85:1.

Ouch. Resize this low-bitrate monster? It'll have to be reworked anyway, because you can't get a DVD with the sample frame size. Ouch again. We'll see. More than one way to get around this.

If anyone's interested: http://www.ioffer.com/i/the-demon-1963-b-w-rare-italian-horror-classic-502855758
No info given on region codes, etc. Gotta be a member to ask.

[newpball]

If anyone's interested: http://www.ioffer.com/i/the-demon-1963-b-w-rare-italian-horror-classic-502855758
No info given on region codes, etc. Gotta be a member to ask.

Looks 100% illegal to me.

It is unfortunate that certain material is no longer accessible (legally) because it is not practical to re-publish. Millions of films, documentaries, music performance etc are rotting in vaults and likely will not be available for publication for centuries, if they will even be available because someone has to pay the storage bills. The big problem is that very often (re) publishing rights have to be negotiated. So for instance if you even wanted to republish some 1940 orchestral performance of some classical piece of music you would literally have to make legal negotiations with every single member (or their immediate family or estate) of the orchestra and others involved. The proceeds would never cover the legal costs.

Personally I would like to see changes in current copyright laws where material of a certain age that is no longer distributed for a certain time (without a valid reason. e.g. defamation, embarrassment, privacy, things like that) fall automatically into the public domain.

Similar to mining claims, if you don't mine within a certain time frame you lose the claim.

[Coffindan]

Took a break here and looked up more work from Brunello Rondi (Ah. La Dolce Vita! Marcello, where are you when we need you?). The 688x384 samples are 1.791:1 aspect ratio. Yeah, this AR was used for a few European films, but Il Demonio was shot at 1:85:1. So whoever borked the DVD made mistake #485-B and resized for an AR of 1.77778:1 and got 1.79. After resizing a few frames from the sample, it appears that it should be 1.85:1.

Ouch. Resize this low-bitrate monster? It'll have to be reworked anyway, because you can't get a DVD with the sample frame size. Ouch again. We'll see. More than one way to get around this.

If anyone's interested: http://www.ioffer.com/i/the-demon-1963-b-w-rare-italian-horror-classic-502855758
No info given on region codes, etc. Gotta be a member to ask.

Ahh! So that's what going on with this? I wonder why someone decided to resize it? More things to consider and play around with. Can you resize in Avsynth?

[Coffindan]

Personally I would like to see changes in current copyright laws where material of a certain age that is no longer distributed for a certain time (without a valid reason. e.g. defamation, embarrassment, privacy, things like that) fall automatically into the public domain.

Same here! There are some pretty good films in the public domain already but like you said, the number that are just floating around in legal limbo is high.

[newpball]

Same here! There are some pretty good films in the public domain already but like you said, the number that are just floating around in legal limbo is high.

It is not really about legal limbo, very few films are actually in legal limbo.

[jagabo]

And Disney will see to it that nothing made after Steamboat Willie well ever come out of Copyright.

[newpball]

And Disney will see to it that nothing made after Steamboat Willie well ever come out of Copyright.

Probably, all thanks to the corrupt idiots called politicians!

[LMotlow]

Can you resize in Avsynth?

Of course. http://avisynth.nl/index.php/Resize. There are other resizers (NNEDI3.dll, Dither_Resize16, etc.). How, depends on what shape it's in. Gotta be careful with this one.

[Coffindan]

Ok so according to MediaFile the width and height of this is 688 X 384. Would I resize it to 720 X 576 which is a PAL video frame size?

Example: AviSource("Il Demonio.avi").BilinearResize(720,576)

[LMotlow]

You want NTSC, not PAL. Not quite sure if the original image has some width cropped off, or what. Will have to see some other frames and shapes to make sure. The former user might just have cut off some of the width to get a real 16:9 (or 1.791:1) image. Can't tell yet. But let's say the image will look correct at 1.85:1 in a 720x480 frame that displays at 16:9 (you can only use 4:3 or 16:9 in DVD aspect ratios). To fit that 1.85:1 image into a 16:9 display, you'll need slight letterbox on top and bottom to get it right, but TV overscan will mask that.

One way to do it:

Spline64Resize(720,456).AddBorders(0,12,0,12)

Makes a 720x480 frame for 16:9 DAR. The image will look squeezed horizontally ("tall skinny people") but displays normally on playback.

Forget about PAL or NTSC with the image you have. It's neither. It's square pixel 688x384. DVD doesn't use square pixels.

[jagabo]

The bigger issue is what to do with the frame rate. Your source is 25 fps but for NTSC DVD you need 23.976 fps or 29.97 fps. One way of dealing with this is to encode progressive at 25 fps then use DgPulldown to add pulldown flags for 29.97 fps. That way you don't need to adjust the audio speed. Another way is to slow the video to 23.976 fps and encode progressive with normal 3:2 pulldown flags (most MPEG 2 encoders can do this). But then you have to slow the audio to match the new video speed.

[Coffindan]

You want NTSC, not PAL. Not quite sure if the original image has some width cropped off, or what. Will have to see some other frames and shapes to make sure. The former user might just have cut off some of the width to get a real 16:9 (or 1.791:1) image. Can't tell yet. But let's say the image will look correct at 1.85:1 in a 720x480 frame that displays at 16:9 (you can only use 4:3 or 16:9 in DVD aspect ratios). To fit that 1.85:1 image into a 16:9 display, you'll need slight letterbox on top and bottom to get it right, but TV overscan will mask that.

One way to do it:

Spline64Resize(720,456).AddBorders(0,12,0,12)

Makes a 720x480 frame for 16:9 DAR. The image will look squeezed horizontally ("tall skinny people") but displays normally on playback.

Forget about PAL or NTSC with the image you have. It's neither. It's square pixel 688x384. DVD doesn't use square pixels.

Ok that makes sense since you did state that PAL is NEVER 688 X 384 to begin with. I will have to play around with this later at home with the clip I made this morning. I'll try my had at it using Avisynth since I have that installed. Well I have the mod version that Im going to try with.

[Coffindan]

The bigger issue is what to do with the frame rate. Your source is 25 fps but for NTSC DVD you need 23.976 fps or 29.97 fps. One way of dealing with this is to encode progressive at 25 fps then use DgPulldown to add pulldown flags for 29.97 fps. That way you don't need to adjust the audio speed. Another way is to slow the video to 23.976 fps and encode progressive with normal 3:2 pulldown flags (most MPEG 2 encoders can do this). But then you have to slow the audio to match the new video speed.

Holy smokes this is a lot to try and comprehend especially when I've never used any of these pieces of software.

[LMotlow]

The bigger issue is what to do with the frame rate. Your source is 25 fps but for NTSC DVD you need 23.976 fps or 29.97 fps. One way of dealing with this is to encode progressive at 25 fps then use DgPulldown to add pulldown flags for 29.97 fps. That way you don't need to adjust the audio speed. Another way is to slow the video to 23.976 fps and encode progressive with normal 3:2 pulldown flags (most MPEG 2 encoders can do this). But then you have to slow the audio to match the new video speed.

I tried the latter and it seemed to work OK:

AssumeFPS("ntsc_film",sync_audio=true)

It seemed to play normally, looked just like the sample. But we'll have to check it out with some original stuff.

[manono]

Holy smokes this is a lot to try and comprehend especially when I've never used any of these pieces of software.

Which is why I suggested AvsToDVD earlier. It'll use AviSynth 'under the hood', so to speak, and you don't have to know anything. You can learn by studying the script it creates and even edit the script if you want to add some filtering of your own. It will use the first of the two methods jagabo mentioned and make a rudimentary menu for you if you like.

The big problem is that very often (re) publishing rights have to be negotiated. So for instance if you even wanted to republish some 1940 orchestral performance of some classical piece of music you would literally have to make legal negotiations with every single member (or their immediate family or estate) of the orchestra and others involved.

Probably not. Look up 'work for hire'.

[LMotlow]

re: manono, yeah, there's free software that can figure a lot of it for you. And far better encoders than you're using now. If you know a bit more about what you're doing thru using Avisynth and VirtualDub, you'll pretty well know what the software will handle. With apps like WMM you just get what you get and no idea how you got there.

You don't use all this stuff. Most people here work with the same video types and same problems most of the time, so it even gets routine after a short while. They might change a few settings as needed, but most of the time it's the same thing over and over.

[jagabo]

You could hard telecine to 29.97 fps interlaced:

(25 fps input, or any other frame rate for that matter)
ChangeFPS(59.94)
AssumeTFF()
SeprateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,1)

Then encode interlaced. But interlaced encoding is less efficient and blurs colors a bit. Even worse you could simply duplicate frames to make 29.97 fps:

(25 fps input, or any other frame rate for that matter)
ChangeFPS(29.97)

This creates several litte jerks every second. Or, even worse than tnat, use frame blending:

(25 fps input, or any other frame rate for that matter)
ConvertFPS(29.97)

This is a little less jerky than ChangeFPS() but adds blurry or double exposure frames.

Regarding resizing the frame: we really don't know how the original source got to be 688x384. Or whether the DVD use an ITU or MPEG pixel aspect ratio. The best way to approach this is to find something in the video of known aspect ratio that's easy to measure. Like a big ball or car tire viewed directly from the side. Then base your calculations on that.

[Coffindan]

Well this is interesting. I opened up AVStoDVD and loaded the clip that I posted yesterday. This was the warning I got. So I have to assume that the software is going to change the frame rate for me.

[manono]

So I have to assume that the software is going to change the frame rate for me.

I wouldn't assume that at all, unless by 'change the framerate' you mean so that it outputs 29.97fps. You've already said you understood nothing in jagabo's post, so don't make assumptions.

If you want it to play on your NTSC DVD player, answer 'No' to the question. The statement about PAL encoding yielding a better result isn't even correct.

[Coffindan]

Well yeah I guess I shouldn't assume anything and I get what it's telling me. I'm probably now over thinking everything. Now AVStoDVD has Avisynth built into it and what little I have read about some of the commands, I guess Im a little confused on how it works within AVStoDVD. Meh.....one way to find out is to experiment with the clip!

[newpball]

Probably not. Look up 'work for hire'.

You obviously don't know what you are talking about.

[LMotlow]

Well yeah I guess I shouldn't assume anything and I get what it's telling me. I'm probably now over thinking everything. Now AVStoDVD has Avisynth built into it and what little I have read about some of the commands, I guess Im a little confused on how it works within AVStoDVD. Meh.....one way to find out is to experiment with the clip!

I'd go along with manono here. One thing at a time. Some prep work with Avisynth will teach you a lot in a short time. But we're awaiting a real sample before we can get into detail.

[Coffindan]

Ok this is confusing. If I click the start button I get the following message:


When I go to preferences it says the video preference is NTSC?

[Coffindan]

And how the heck did my images end up in your post LMotlow?

[manono]

Probably not. Look up 'work for hire'.

You obviously don't know what you are talking about.

Oh, but I do. Only too well, since I have to deal with the issue all the time thanks to copyright thieves on YouTube. Just as the chemist working for Merck doesn't get the patent for the cure for cancer he discovered, so does the musician participating in a piece of music not have any claim at all on the copyright for the music he performed. I would guess it's even spelled out in his contract. Usually the producer does, or whoever hired him. To use a piece of music for something (a CD, a film, a DVD, whatever) rights might have to be acquired, just not from the musicians.

[LMotlow]

And how the heck did my images end up in your post LMotlow?

What images? You mean the pics in post #13? Those are the only ones I've posted. They were made with VirtualDub (Video...->Copy output frame to clipboard) after I brightened the darks with gradation curves, and saved as 96% jpg's with Photoshop.

[Coffindan]

And how the heck did my images end up in your post LMotlow?

What images? You mean the pics in post #13? Those are the only ones I've posted. They were made with VirtualDub (Video...->Copy source frame to clipboard) after I brightened the darks with gradation curves, and saved as 96% jpg's with Photoshop.

Nope they are gone now. That was odd. I posted and my pics were in your post above mine. A glitch I guess, it's fine now.

[LMotlow]

Nope. The only pics I posted in this thread are back in #13.