USB 3.0 capture cards for analoge and digital signals (composite + HDMI)

[snn47]

I already have a WinTVPVR USB2 and Terratec Cameo 800 Firewire capture card, which worked fine for digitizing VHS recorder or the composite output of my digicam (Fuji S602) or Hi8 Cameo (drive broken). Since my new digicam has HDMI output I am looking for a capture card that supports HDMI as well as capturing from various (older) computer or test equipment.

While support for old gaming consoles seems to be supported and working by a number of capture-cards in the 200 to 500 € price range, I am wondering how good are the various analogue video sources supported.

The USB 3.0 capture cards that seem to work for longer time periods and that I see as possible candidates are

• Micomsoft xcapture-1 USB 3.0 micomsoft http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xcapture-1.htm
• Skydigital SKY-CXHDMIU6 USB 3.0 http://www.skyok.co.jp/product.php?code=617
• Startech USB3HDCAP USB 3.0 http://www.startech.com/AV/Converters/Video/usb-3-0-video-capture-device-hdmi-dvi-vga~USB3HDCAP
  All 3 which seem to share similar Hardware but differ in driver/programs, available connections and if pass-through is available, then there are
• Blackmagic Design Intensity Shuttle USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/de/products/intensity
• Matrox MXO2 Mini (Max) allows in addition to USB 3 also PCIe, Expresscard or Thunderbold http://www.matrox.com/video/en/products/mxo2_mini/

Note: most of the capture cards listed above seem to require a NEC or Renesas USB 3 controller.

The xcapture-1 is well regarded by those who record and stream gamin consoles and seems to support most resolutions available in new, old and legacy gaming consoles, I could not find any information on how well theses cards work with analogue video sources, e.g. for the digitizing of older (S-)VHS or Hi8 tapes. Would I need an additional Time Base Corrector (TBC), how about the different black level standards or do they work with PAL VHS recorder when the play back NTSC tapes.

I do not want to go into more details unless others are also interested in swiss army knife USB 3.0 capture card too.

[snn47]

Posts on the xcapture-1 focus on use for recording and streaming of new, old and legacy gaming consules. Then there is an extensive documentation for this purpose by sixfortyfive here http://www.sixfortyfive.com/streaming/xcapture1.html.

Here is what the xcapture looks like from top and here the in- and passthrough-outputs


The detailed documentation can be found here http://micomsoft.co.jp/shop/xcapture-1.html, however since a lot is in pictures translations don't provide the information contained in them. Can someone read/translate it e.g. from the picture below?

The xcapture-1 has in addition to the many input connectors (DVI-D, HDMI, RGB, SVHS) passthrough for each of them. Delay is supposed to be minimal

Supported formats are

[usually_quiet]

I would stay away from the Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle. Too many people have reported problems with it.

HD capture devices reportedly have difficulty with the disorderly signal that results from playing analog tapes. You can try a full-frame TBC, but it is possible you will find it necessary to return to using what worked in the past.

Using HDMI capture devices only makes sense if you are using the PC to record directly from the camera, or streaming. Pre-existing digital recordings should be transferred/copied to the PC instead.

[snn47]

The SKY-CXHDMIU6 USB 3.0 is the card for which I could not not much information so far.

Here is what the card looks like


Here are the supported formats


In another picture there it states free resolution/free frame somewhat. Can someone read and translate the inportant bits?

[snn47]

usually_quiet thank you for the reply. In addition to old video tapes, that I hope to capture in with a better color resolution
I want to capture the HDMI out from my Samsung NX2000 digicam since then I am not limited to the recording duration, which is for tax purposes limited to about 20 - 30' in Germany, and
to record presentations in the office and dub them with the presenter remarks, questions and replies during the presentation, to allow others not present to see it to.

With many sources I could not determine the except details of the video signal, which is why I am looking for a versatile device.

My HP notebooks both have the required USB 3.0 controller and the newer has also thunderbolt, however I could not find much information how well thunderbolt is supported in windows 7 pro 64. I also read about problems with the various blackmagic cards, but also some positive remarks on quality.

In addition to hard to claim warranty it's the language barrier for the Micom and Skydigital that makes me hesitate. While the Startech is available directly in Germany it seems to be most limited by hardware and software.

At OBS https://obsproject.com/forum/threads/best-capture-device-for-all-game-consoles.13792/#post-123250I found the remarks that "It" (xcapture) "uses the same chipset as the Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle", however I could not find any evidence if this is true.

[snn47]

Anyone knows which chips are used in the above listed capture cards, because the data sheets would provide some information?

I just found that there is a second card from skydigital Sky-CXHDMIU3 which uses an Analog Devices High Performance, 8-Bit Display Interface AD9983A. Just AD has a 10 Bit version the AD9984A and the AD9981.

[usually_quiet]

In case it makes any difference to you, The Micomsoft XCapture-1 and Startech USB3HDCAP can capture 1080p50 or 1080p60, but the two Windows-compatible Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle devices won't capture beyond 1080p25 and 1080p30. It looks like the Skydigital SKY-CXHDMIU6 can also capture 1080p60, but I have not seen anything about it written in English. If you want to screen capture from a PC, 1080p60 would be good to have.

[snn47]

I do not have nor foresee to have any 1080p50 or 1080p60 sources, but I assume the faster the interface the better for the capturering, if the capture software is good to.

A main disadvantage I see from reading is, that the Blackmagic software does not provide autodetect and stays black unless the correct resolution is entered. Also support for 480i is missing. I guess not for technical reasons, but from deliberate software limitations.

[usually_quiet]

If by "deliberate software limitations" you mean driver limitations, those are indeed something you can't do much about. It is rare for alternative drivers to be available.

However, users say the Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle, Micomsoft XCapture-1, and Startech USB3HDCAP can work with other capture software, not just what the manufacture bundles with it. Reviews frequently mention AmaRecTV as alternative capture software used for testing.

[newpball]

The USB 3.0 capture cards that seem to work for longer time periods and that I see as possible candidates are

I would recommend a PCI based capture card.

[snn47]

newpball, which benefits do you see in PCIe based capture cards, since I already have two notebooks with the USB 3.0 controll required? Icould get a thunderboldt case or an expresscard case for PCIe cards, which could bring another bunch of compatibility problems like other experienced if they had not a NEC/Renesas USB 3.0 controller.

usually_quiet I read too that capture cards can use also other programs like AmaRecTV or OBS, but not if Adobe Premier or Magix also support capturing and to what extend like different blacklevel in the various NTSC types. Since Adobe Premiere elements is on sale presently, do you know any of the more reasonably programms would support capture, since I have no need for effects or such features nor the money to by the 1000+€ versions just for capturing?

[newpball]

newpball, which benefits do you see in PCIe based capture cards, ....

It is just over all more professional. USB has its fair share of hiccups.

Assuming you do not need to capture on the road I see absolutely no point in using a laptop for this.

[pandy]

newpball, which benefits do you see in PCIe based capture cards, since I already have two notebooks with the USB 3.0 controll required? Icould get a thunderboldt case or an expresscard case for PCIe cards, which could bring another bunch of compatibility problems like other experienced if they had not a NEC/Renesas USB 3.0 controller.

Bandwidth - i check few USB3 ports WITH NEC chip, some of them use single PCIe lane and as such they not provide sufficient bandwidth for HD capture - you need at least 5Gbps (ie at least 2 PCIe lanes). So first verify what kind of USB3 you have ( full or half )

[usually_quiet]

usually_quiet I read too that capture cards can use also other programs like AmaRecTV or OBS, but not if Adobe Premier or Magix also support capturing and to what extend like different blacklevel in the various NTSC types. Since Adobe Premiere elements is on sale presently, do you know any of the more reasonably programms would support capture, since I have no need for effects or such features nor the money to by the 1000+€ versions just for capturing?

newpball and pandy have a habit of disrupting threads. pandy is on my ignore list so I no longer read what it writes. Take anything that they tell you with a grain of salt.

I once tried Magix Video Easy HD with a USB 2.0 SD capture device that uses software for compression, and it worked for capture. The USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt devices you are considering also use software for compression, which is why they work with AmaRecTV. In my opinion, there is some chance Magix Video Easy HD will work with the HD capture devices that you are interested in, but I can't say for certain since my only HD capture device uses hardware for encoding**. I have never tried Adobe Premiere Elements.

[Edit]**Capture devices (USB 2.0, PCI, or PCI-e) that use hardware encoding will only work with capture software that has been written/modified to be used with them.

I found a review for the Intensity Shuttle Thunderbolt on YouTube which may interest you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk_7zBj0Q9w

[snn47]

@usually_quiet thank you I'm still watching and reading, that is why I havn't replied so far. I was looking at Adobe Premiere Elements because it was on sale and contacted also Magix about their Video Pro X6. Blackmagic only lists the pro Version or other similar priced pvideo editing software, which I don't need since I only remove some seconds from before I statred capturing or at the end.
I couldn't find documentation about what control video editing programs provide for capture cards, even if you can capture with this programs at all, but I did not look at any of the the 250€ ++ programs since I would not use even 1% of the features they offer.

@Pandy I wrote about Renesas (formerly NEC) USB 3.0 rechecked Renesas. which Renesas USB 3 do you mean that is connected via 2 Lanes?
Both the µPD720201 and the µPD720200A are "System I/F: PCIe Gen2 x 1 Lane, http://www.renesas.com/products/soc/usb_assp/product/upd720200a/index.jsp.

@Newpball I cannot agree with your reasoning. In the past years whenever I used USB for capturing I did not have hickups, since driver supported the hardware and the hardware was stabil even when used for hours.
Thats why I specifically mentiond prolonged capturing. If you know something about the capture hardware I noted above that supports your claim please say so, otherwise just because some USB Hardware, e.g. USB to SATA bridge-chips have hickups, is not related to capturing cards.

[pandy]

@Pandy I wrote about Renesas (formerly NEC) USB 3.0 rechecked Renesas. which Renesas USB 3 do you mean that is connected via 2 Lanes?
Both the µPD720201 and the µPD720200A are "System I/F: PCIe Gen2 x 1 Lane, http://www.renesas.com/products/soc/usb_assp/product/upd720200a/index.jsp.

For PCIe rev 2 transfer was doubled - 1 lane have speed of 2 previous lanes - problems is that this is purely to vendor and sometimes it simply doesn't work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#PCI_Express_2.0

PCI-SIG announced the availability of the PCI Express Base 2.0 specification on 15 January 2007.[26] The PCIe 2.0 standard doubles the transfer rate compared with PCIe 1.0 to 5 GT/s and the per-lane throughput rises from 250 MB/s to 500 MB/s.

[usually_quiet]

@usually_quiet thank you I'm still watching and reading, that is why I havn't replied so far. I was looking at Adobe Premiere Elements because it was on sale and contacted also Magix about their Video Pro X6. Blackmagic only lists the pro Version or other similar priced pvideo editing software, which I don't need since I only remove some seconds from before I statred capturing or at the end.
I couldn't find documentation about what control video editing programs provide for capture cards, even if you can capture with this programs at all, but I did not look at any of the the 250€ ++ programs since I would not use even 1% of the features they offer.

Thanks for the explanation. Since you were looking at Adobe Premiere Elements (consumer software), I did not stop to consider that you would be asking about Magix Video Pro X6 rather than their consumer software. I can't suggest simple paid software to use, since I don't have an HD capture device that uses software to encode. Most consumer software has a free trial these days, so you can try before you buy. There is likely to be something that will work. If not I guess you will have to go back to the manufacturer's recommendations.

Pandy likes to hijack threads by turning them into a hardware discussion that it finds interesting. If it wanted to help you, it could have simply told you how to find out if the USB 3.0 ports on your laptops are sufficient, but that would have ended the discussion.

I'm not particularly worried that a high-end laptop (mobile workstation?) with a Thunderbolt port would have second-rate USB 3.0. If you want to know for sure, one way to check is to download and install USBTreeView http://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbtreeview.html. Connect a USB 3.0 hard drive to the USB 3.0 port you want to test. Run UsbTreeView. Look at the left side of the window. Find the port where you connected the hard drive and click on it. The report on the right side of the screen will show you if that connection is operating at SuperSpeed.

[Edit]I suspect at least one of these laptops is a mobile workstation that allows installing more than one hard drive, or at least has an eSATA port, but I really should ask about that just to be sure. An SSD or a second hard drive connected by SATA or eSATA is recommended for recording an HD capture that is compressed using software.

[snn47]

Thank you, I received a reply by Magix stating, that Magix Video Pro X6 only supports Black Magic devices for record and replay. Recording is only possible up to 1920 x 1080 and no other codes are supported.

Ausschließlich die Geräte von Black Magic werden von MAGIX Video Pro X 6 zur Aufnahme bzw. der Ausgabe unterstützt. Die Aufnahme ist im Magix Video Format mit einer Auflösung von 1920x1080 möglich. Weitere Codecs werden für die Aufnahme nicht unterstützt.

I even started looking at the Premiere Forums to understand what cards work for caturing but unsucessfully

Determining hardware compatibility seems to be getting more and more complex these day, wether it is one of the many intel made variations or the combination with other manufacterers hardware, and how the lanes are shared/distributed.

I find it strange that manufacterer who provide tools for checking if mainboards controller chipset are compatible for capture cards, do not provide them as download, to allow a check prior purchase, but only, from what I read, with the capture card.

Thank you for the link to USB tree, that should help understand the more complex USB 3.0 Hubs with more then 3 Ports, since depending on how the internal Hubs are connected some user received a max. number of Hub-depth was excced if they added another one.

What did you mean with

[Edit]I suspect at least one of these laptops is a mobile workstation that allows installing more than one hard drive, or at least has an eSATA port, but I really should ask about that just to be sure. An SSD or a second hard drive connected by SATA or eSATA is recommended for recording an HD capture that is compressed using software.

[pandy]

Pandy likes to hijack threads by turning them into a hardware discussion that it finds interesting. If it wanted to help you, it could have simply told you how to find out if the USB 3.0 ports on your laptops are sufficient, but that would have ended the discussion.

Sounds like you preparing me a one way ticket to GITMO... hijack...sounds spooky when written by USually quiet...
Pointed you many times instead be jealous of my knowledge you can learn yourself and not behave like abandoned mistress - move your lazy 3 letters and start educating yourself, please also put me on your ignore list (don't cheat) and pretend that i not exist - today is quite clear that you reading everything i've wrote and all you can provide as feedback is information that you not reading me as im on your ignore list - please stop reading me, please ignore me, be practical and be quiet Thank you in advance.

PS
Please ask moderator/admin/forum members how to configure your ignore list if you don't know how to do it (this will be not surprise to me)...

T
I
A

B.

[usually_quiet]

What did you mean with

[Edit]I suspect at least one of these laptops is a mobile workstation that allows installing more than one hard drive, or at least has an eSATA port, but I really should ask about that just to be sure. An SSD or a second hard drive connected by SATA or eSATA is recommended for recording an HD capture that is compressed using software.

I'm sure you are aware that the data transfer rate can be quite high when capturing with an HD capture device, but how high depends on the capture resolution and compressor used. A dedicated SSD is recommended if the HD capture is losslessly compressed. A second HDD is still usually recommended when using more compression, just to be sure there is no possibility that the drive will be busy doing something else when it should be recording capture data. Since an OS drive has many demands placed upon it, there is always a possibility that it will be occupied with other tasks at the wrong moment and some data from the capture will be lost.

[snn47]

Thank you I assumed that you meant this.

My experience with windows 7 64 pro is somewhat erratic, from quite fast to slow while copying, and I don't mean what the explorer show as averaged transfer speed, but the drops you can see in the taskmanager, sometimes it even stops copying. for a few seconds, notebook not occupied by other programs.

I can'treproduce this behaviour, and it will occur while copying a few TB of files that were mostly 1.5TB or larger. Form SSD and between HDD'S. Even when I copied images several 10 GB in size onto >50 % empty HDD, independent which USB 3/Sata bridge-chipset is used or if the HDD is connected via an expresscard SATA controller. The again if I copy between 2 pairs of drives on nothing happens.

[usually_quiet]

Thank you I assumed that you meant this.

My experience with windows 7 64 pro is somewhat erratic, from quite fast to slow while copying, and I don't mean what the explorer show as averaged transfer speed, but the drops you can see in the taskmanager, sometimes it even stops copying. for a few seconds, notebook not occupied by other programs.

I can'treproduce this behaviour, and it will occur while copying a few TB of files that were mostly 1.5TB or larger. Form SSD and between HDD'S. Even when I copied images several 10 GB in size onto >50 % empty HDD, independent which USB 3/Sata bridge-chipset is used or if the HDD is connected via an expresscard SATA controller. The again if I copy between 2 pairs of drives on nothing happens.

I have not noticed what you are describing. That may be because I often walk away and do something else when copying very large amounts of data from one drive to another.

Some of the other members here recommended a program called TeraCopy https://codesector.com/teracopy in another recent thread as being faster and more reliable than Windows 7 64-bit's own copy utility. TeraCopy was recommended because Windows 7 64-bit appears to have a bug that sometimes causes corruption in large files when copying them to external drives. I did a search and found reports similar to this one in a few forums: http://www.sevenforums.com/general-discussion/210800-windows-7-64-bit-corrupting-large...fs-drives.html I decided to try the free version of TeraCopy last week. TeraCopy seems to work well when I remember to use it. Breaking old habits can take time.

[snn47]

Backing up a 4 TB to of mostly >1.5 TB a another empty takes me more then 15h, while in principle it could be shorter.

In addition to Terracopy there are quite a few commanders, e.g. Total- or Speed-commander, the first also with quite a few addons, then minemalistic the 2 window tool in 7zip (portable) which I use a lot.

I can't remeber any other program than Terracopy to claim having theri own routines for copying, but at the time I used Terracopy I had not discovered that effect in windows, and since a crash of the OS SSD I had not reinstalled Terracopy.

For integrety check I rely on µ$ windiff, which compares as only check-compare tool bit to bit, and not rely on some checksum version or another. With long filenames this may provide errors where there are none, and it takes long, a long time to compare, but I prefer that over false positive report.

The effect taht I noticed reduces the transfer speed quite a bit, even though even a slow SATA 1 cntroller or SATA to USB 3.0 Bridgechip should easily provide a sustained speed of 100 MB/s with large images or video files. Copying between two pairs of drive (4 HDD) I found transfer to be in the sum of both much faster, compared to when I have only copied between 2 drives, when the pausing kicks in, independent if the pc is only used for copying or something else.

I will have to recheck when this happens, since I connect HDD/SSD via SATA and USB 3, ocassionally even firewire on older external drives or the terratec grabber. WHile I do not have done reliable tests, I remember that even external USB 2.0 are a bit faster on a USB 3 por, compared to a USB 2.0 port, if you use ATTO.

Two more effects I remember noticing just recently, properbly becaus I got more sensitive to observe what win7 does,is
- using the explorer in windows, is that the completion bare has reached the end, even though the copying is not finished for some times, e.g. a large file from a USB 3.0 SSD Stick, which much faster on reading than my 2 TB or larger WD 3.5" HDD can store. Again it is not something that I notice constantly.
-the second taht the more you copy, move and rename files during a cleanup, the slower and unreliable the explorer gets. In extreme the explorer and copying comes to a halt until I kill the explorer in the taskmanager. It is not a problem if I copy e.g. 4 to 6 TB at once. The explorer remains response for work on other drives all the may hours it takes to copy.

Here again I normally have the taskmanager open once I use window to see if windoes is still responsive copying. WHile not directly related to capturing, it is imho because you cannot blame USB 3 for "hickups" that should be blamed to the large overhead in pre USB 3.1 versions and the implementation in windows or USB drivers.

I hope this will improve with USB 3.1, but we'll have to wait if it really will improver over what firewire could achieve since the first version. Then we'll have to wait even longer until we'll see USB 3.1 support in capturing devices, which is why I am paying more a more closer look to how win7 performs when I use USB 3. devised.

[usually_quiet]

Backing up a 4 TB to of mostly >1.5 TB a another empty takes me more then 15h, while in principle it could be shorter.

In addition to Terracopy there are quite a few commanders, e.g. Total- or Speed-commander, the first also with quite a few addons, then minemalistic the 2 window tool in 7zip (portable) which I use a lot.

I can't remeber any other program than Terracopy to claim having theri own routines for copying, but at the time I used Terracopy I had not discovered that effect in windows, and since a crash of the OS SSD I had not reinstalled Terracopy.

For integrety check I rely on µ$ windiff, which compares as only check-compare tool bit to bit, and not rely on some checksum version or another. With long filenames this may provide errors where there are none, and it takes long, a long time to compare, but I prefer that over false positive report.

The effect taht I noticed reduces the transfer speed quite a bit, even though even a slow SATA 1 cntroller or SATA to USB 3.0 Bridgechip should easily provide a sustained speed of 100 MB/s with large images or video files. Copying between two pairs of drive (4 HDD) I found transfer to be in the sum of both much faster, compared to when I have only copied between 2 drives, when the pausing kicks in, independent if the pc is only used for copying or something else.

I will have to recheck when this happens, since I connect HDD/SSD via SATA and USB 3, ocassionally even firewire on older external drives or the terratec grabber. WHile I do not have done reliable tests, I remember that even external USB 2.0 are a bit faster on a USB 3 por, compared to a USB 2.0 port, if you use ATTO.

Two more effects I remember noticing just recently, properbly becaus I got more sensitive to observe what win7 does,is
- using the explorer in windows, is that the completion bare has reached the end, even though the copying is not finished for some times, e.g. a large file from a USB 3.0 SSD Stick, which much faster on reading than my 2 TB or larger WD 3.5" HDD can store. Again it is not something that I notice constantly.
-the second taht the more you copy, move and rename files during a cleanup, the slower and unreliable the explorer gets. In extreme the explorer and copying comes to a halt until I kill the explorer in the taskmanager. It is not a problem if I copy e.g. 4 to 6 TB at once. The explorer remains response for work on other drives all the may hours it takes to copy.

Here again I normally have the taskmanager open once I use window to see if windoes is still responsive copying. WHile not directly related to capturing, it is imho because you cannot blame USB 3 for "hickups" that should be blamed to the large overhead in pre USB 3.1 versions and the implementation in windows or USB drivers.

I hope this will improve with USB 3.1, but we'll have to wait if it really will improver over what firewire could achieve since the first version. Then we'll have to wait even longer until we'll see USB 3.1 support in capturing devices, which is why I am paying more a more closer look to how win7 performs when I use USB 3. devised.

I wish you luck solving this mystery. It doesn't seem like it will be easy to find the answer.

I have been trying to remember if any VideoHelp member has mentioned relatively simple commercial editing software that they had used to capture from an HD capture device that uses software for compression. All I came up with is Cyberlink PowerDirector. There is somebody here who uses it with the AVerMedia C027 and some other AVerMedia HD capture devices, but I don't think it is likely that Cyberlink PowerDirector will be able to capture every resolution that you want to capture.