Rendering a dvd in vegas pro 12.

[_Al_]

He is not butchering his video using mp4 HD intermediate if he does things as was explained. Grow up guys. He knows that he could export Sony YUV, it is just 12 min, so doable, but he does not care anyway. If anyone comes with the same bashing I just might to do two versions just to show you that for op it is more than enough to do it the way he does it. Do you understand what is happening while downscaling,yes?

Now he knows now that DVD is SD resolution, kill him that he had that mixed up, why do you bother to answer like that anyway, so anyone in line to come up with this, "Do not do DVD because it looks like crap?" , come out of the closet!

[Anonymous2]

Yes there is a technical reason why BD doesn't support "30p". It doesn't match film's framerate of 24p (main target application for BD distribution), nor does it have the motion smoothness that 720p and 1080i have - the 2 professional/high-quality HD capturing formats available at the time that BD was specified (the 2nd target application for BD distribution). However, you are mistaken that it can't be put on BD, because a 30p PsF BD title can be created (as "30i") with no loss of quality.

Also, saying "the problem with Blue-ray (sic) is that it is very restricted" is like saying "the problem with 12-tone Western Music is that it is very restricted".

@Dopey2013, newpball seems to keep trying to distract you with options of HTPC use, etc., and it seems you have gotten confused as a result. Why don't you make it clear to us what you are really needing? - Are you needing to send this to people who only have DVD players? Are there some of those people who have BD players also? or generic media players also? Are you just doing this for yourself?
This will help pin down what options you have.
For example: if you truly need to send this to others (fam, friends) who ONLY have DVD players, the idea of "keeping it in HD" is a moot point! All DVD players play only SD (even those that fake HD by upscaling their output). If this is your pathway, the workflow I suggested earlier is preferred.
If your pathway is different, then I think you've been leading us astray on "wild goose chases".

Scott

Thanks will get back to you tommorow

[newpball]

[U]....so anyone in line to come up with this, "Do not do DVD because it looks like crap?" , come out of the closet!

Because that's how the human - moving goalposts - mind works.

When VHS was mainstream the first DVDs looked like a gift from heaven and after awhile VHS looked like crap.
Then came HD. Same thing happened there, after awhile DVDs looked like crap.

And so will it be when higher resolutions become mainstream, old HD will look like crap.

But especially those HD sources who were overcompressed for completely unnecessary "look how much I can compress" reasons! All we will say is "what on Earth was the guy thinking compressing the life out of a video like that"!

So the moral is, if you have a source, respect it! Don't unnecessarily compress it to save a few bytes or butcher it by changing the resolution. And I haven't even started to comment on idiotic things like frame blending to satisfy some kind of standard on some piece of plastic.

[Skiller]

When VHS was mainstream the first DVDs looked like a gift from heaven and after awhile VHS looked like crap.
Then came HD. Same thing happened there, after awhile DVDs looked like crap.

That's your opinion. I know a lot of people, namely those who aren't into video much at all, who can hardly tell a difference between a Blu-ray and a (well made) DVD. "This is HD, right? —No, it's a DVD."
Edit: And it's not a matter of glasses.

And I haven't even started to comment on idiotic things like frame blending to satisfy some kind of standard on some piece of plastic.

You really hate standards, don't you? But I agree, frame blending 24 fps to 25 fps is idiotic. Speedup is the best way to do it (most of the time).

So the moral is, if you have a source, respect it!

Yeah. But that would mean no one can watch the video then. It's a pointless recommendation for the op.

[Cornucopia]

Except it doesn't quite work that way.

VHS has ALWAYS looked like crap, even when there was nothing else in Home Electronics to compare it to. DVD has always looked much better, but it clearly has and always will be SD. HD is always better looking than that (assuming equal colorspace and correspondingly higher accommodating bitrate). But it doesn't make well shot+compressed SD all of a sudden look like crap, just "fuzzier". And UHD or higher won't make HD ever look like crap unless you are 2 feet away from a 100" screen (and then I think you have more pressing worries).

Your analogy with compression is more apt, but only if the viewer is taught to be more discerning.

I think everyone responding to the OP agrees that you want to respect the quality of the source...as much as you can given other constraints. But you are ignoring or deriding those other constraints, whereas I am not.

I agree one should not unnecessarily compress "just to save a few bytes". Compress only to fit a size or bandwidth constraint (that's the nature of compression). I think we are still trying to determine what that constraint is and by how much.

Changing resolution is also something that is about constraints, but there are many ways to resize that do not constitute "butchering". You seem to be prone to exaggeration/magnification beyond simple hyperbole.
I hope you refrain from commenting about "frame blending to satisfy some kind of standard..." because nobody has suggested that. Frame blending is almost ALWAYS a bad idea unless done for creative reasons. Maybe you are equating interlacing with frame blending. If so, you have more to learn.

Scott

[newpball]

Frame blending is almost ALWAYS a bad idea unless done for creative reasons.

How do you do NTSC video (non film sourced) to PAL?

[_Al_]

I deliberately looked for the part that looks bad if blend used, so op can see how it looks like, again, his video would not look that bad, if encoding pictures and some people dining or watching football ... just and idea what happens if frame rate is changed comparing to speed up.
-23.976 to 25 is done in Sony Vegas.
-sped up video to 25 fps is done in Virtual Dub and encoded again in Vegas for DVD stream

[smrpix]

Frame blending is almost ALWAYS a bad idea unless done for creative reasons.

How do you do NTSC video (non film sourced) to PAL?

Generally you don't. Most PAL equipment will play and display NTSC material just fine.

If you have a specific requirement, say a piece of stock footage, you convert depending on the situation. Sometimes slow down, sometimes drop frames, sometimes blend.

[newpball]

Generally you don't. Most PAL equipment will play and display NTSC material just fine.

Tell that to those engineers responsible for bringing signals over the air.

[_Al_]

hey, run for federal office, make it President, then make a treaties to establish only one frame rate on the Globe, but you must give it to Congress only before Christmas to approve it. ... only to find out how many more useful things you could have actually done

if you start to tell engineers what they should do and how they should do it, you end up in a country that you would not want to be ... they do whatever they do from their point of view, whatever reasons they have,...., the thing that counts is a choice ... op has choices,

if he blends, nobody notices, nobody pays any attention that he did blend, nobody cares, because they watch DVD, that was made for others to see, sure he has a chance to do it a right way, but even he has a choice ... heck he has a choice to buy camcorder that shoots 25p, not using photo-camera with 24p or 30p,.., I'd leave the world to have choices ...

[smrpix]

Tell that to those engineers responsible for bringing signals over the air.

OP is not trying to broadcast his material over the air. Stay on topic.

[Skiller]

By the way, the Nikon D3200 that the op uses has the option to shoot at 25 fps (1080p) and 50 fps (at 720p) in addition to the usual 24, 30 and 60 fps modes. Maybe a good suggestion: next time shoot at 25 fps rather than 24 fps.

[_Al_]

He might have provided a link for a ntsc version of this camera, I remember if camera could do 24 and 30 usually could not do 25, but that was couple of years back. Or that Nicon can shoot all frame rates? It kind of seems unlikely.

[Cornucopia]

Frame blending is almost ALWAYS a bad idea unless done for creative reasons.

How do you do NTSC video (non film sourced) to PAL?

Generally you don't. Most PAL equipment will play and display NTSC material just fine.

If you have a specific requirement, say a piece of stock footage, you convert depending on the situation. Sometimes slow down, sometimes drop frames, sometimes blend.

Yeah, I've done all 3 at different times. Because of the complexities of formats and their obvious differences, any one of these options will unfortunately be detrimental somehow. All are compromises, but it's unavoidable.

Scott

[Cornucopia]

He might have provided a link for a ntsc version of this camera, I remember if camera could do 24 and 30 usually could not do 25, but that was couple of years back. Or that Nicon can shoot all frame rates? It kind of seems unlikely.

I have the Nikon D3200. It allows both NTSC & PAL playback, and depending upon that output choice will change the list of available shooting rates, so:

1. NTSC - 24p (actually 23.976), 30p (actually 29.97), 60p (720 only here, actually 59.94)
2. PAL - 24p, 25p, 50p (for 720 only here)

Pretty common, I would think.

Scott

[Anonymous2]

NOTE: I am not interested in the face palmer or anyone with the go search google or butchering video without being constructive attitude. Such people will be placed on ignore. This is a beginners forum. I am a beginner

There is a lot of conflicting advice here and I do not know enough to know what is what and do not uderstand a lot ofthe terms. They are not easily understood by me from a google. Anyone who cannot be constructive keep out of the discusion. I am not interested in point scoring

Thanks to the people who try to help

[Anonymous2]

Yes there is a technical reason why BD doesn't support "30p". It doesn't match film's framerate of 24p (main target application for BD distribution), nor does it have the motion smoothness that 720p and 1080i have - the 2 professional/high-quality HD capturing formats available at the time that BD was specified (the 2nd target application for BD distribution). However, you are mistaken that it can't be put on BD, because a 30p PsF BD title can be created (as "30i") with no loss of quality.

Also, saying "the problem with Blue-ray (sic) is that it is very restricted" is like saying "the problem with 12-tone Western Music is that it is very restricted".

@Dopey2013, newpball seems to keep trying to distract you with options of HTPC use, etc., and it seems you have gotten confused as a result. Why don't you make it clear to us what you are really needing? - Are you needing to send this to people who only have DVD players? Are there some of those people who have BD players also? or generic media players also? Are you just doing this for yourself?
This will help pin down what options you have.
For example: if you truly need to send this to others (fam, friends) who ONLY have DVD players, the idea of "keeping it in HD" is a moot point! All DVD players play only SD (even those that fake HD by upscaling their output). If this is your pathway, the workflow I suggested earlier is preferred.
If your pathway is different, then I think you've been leading us astray on "wild goose chases".

Scott

Thanks will get back to you tommorow

Sorry did not get back to you yesterrday
You asked:
Why don't you make it clear to us what you are really needing? - Are you needing to send this to people who only have DVD players? Are there some of those people who have BD players also? or generic media players also? Are you just doing this for yourself?


I have a nikon D3200 and it shoots .mov. I shoot at 24 fps as it says it gives a more film like look. The film is for a DVD for people who have DVD players. I want as good as quality as possible

So if i load the .mov and also jpegs what is the best render for A DVD as high qulaity as possible.

There is also the possibility it will be played in public. What would be the best to render for that. It would be either on a large TV or fed from a computer to a large screen. Sorry cannot give more details on that it is not finalised. Just assume it is for DVD for the moment.

I can make different versions by loading the.veg and rendering different settings?

Thanks for your help

[Anonymous2]

He might have provided a link for a ntsc version of this camera, I remember if camera could do 24 and 30 usually could not do 25, but that was couple of years back. Or that Nicon can shoot all frame rates? It kind of seems unlikely.

NIikon say
"When set to NTSC you would have the options between 24p, 30p and 60p" I am in PAL Land

[Anonymous2]

This is the media info for the other film which I said people said look good. This is the mp4 and I made it into a DVD with ConvertXToDVD. Apologies if said it was 19x20? Is this bad and if so how could it be made better. I still have the .mov files so could do it again

General
Complete name : C:\Users\****\Videos\*****.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42
File size : 417 MiB
Duration : 11mn 27s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 5 085 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2014-02-22 02:39:35
Tagged date : UTC 2014-02-22 02:39:35

Video
ID : 2
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Muxing mode : Container profile=Baseline@3.1
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 11mn 27s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 4 952 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 8 000 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.215
Stream size : 406 MiB (97%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2014-02-22 02:39:35
Tagged date : UTC 2014-02-22 02:39:35

Audio
ID : 1
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 11mn 27s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 128 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : 40ms
Stream size : 10.5 MiB (3%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2014-02-22 02:39:35
Tagged date : UTC 2014-02-22 02:39:35

[Skiller]

NIikon say
"When set to NTSC you would have the options between 24p, 30p and 60p" I am in PAL Land

As explained by Cornucopia, if you change the camera's output video standard to PAL the frame rates 25 and 50 will become available for shooting.
25 fps look just as "filmic" as 24 fps but you avoid the need to convert to 25 fps later on. I think it's really a good idea to shoot at 25 fps in the future.

Is this bad and if so how could it be made better.

Increase the bitrate. That's very easy and it'll help. Increase the video bitrate to like 25,000 KBit/s (5 times as much). Regarding the audio, use a higher bitrate too. You can easily pick the highest available (should be 448 or so).

[Anonymous2]

NIikon say
"When set to NTSC you would have the options between 24p, 30p and 60p" I am in PAL Land

As explained by Cornucopia, if you change the camera's output video standard to PAL the frame rates 25 and 50 will become available for shooting.
25 fps look just as "filmic" as 24 fps but you avoid the need to convert to 25 fps later on. I think it's really a good idea to shoot at 25 fps in the future.

Is this bad and if so how could it be made better.

Increase the bitrate. That's very easy and it'll help. Increase the video bitrate to like 25,000 KBit/s (5 times as much). Regarding the audio, use a higher bitrate too. You can easily pick the highest available (should be 448 or so).

OK thanks. I just noticed the bit rate mode is variable, That is bad is it?

25 fps look just as "filmic" as 24 fps but you avoid the need to convert to 25 fps later on. I think it's really a good idea to shoot at 25 fps in the future.

good tip thanks

if you change the camera's output video standard to PAL the frame rates 25 and 50 will become available for shooting.

50 fps is 1280x720
24 and 25 fps is 1920x1080

[smrpix]

I just noticed the bit rate mode is variable, That is bad is it?

Variable bit rate is fine. Variable frame rate is bad.

[Anonymous2]

I just noticed the bit rate mode is variable, That is bad is it?

Variable bit rate is fine. Variable frame rate is bad.

ok got confused. Thanks

[smrpix]

I just noticed the bit rate mode is variable, That is bad is it?

Variable bit rate is fine. Variable frame rate is bad.

ok got confused. Thanks

No worries, easy mistake to make. FWIW, I also totally endorse skiller and cornucopia's suggestion that you shoot 25fps (or 50) going forward.

[Anonymous2]

I just noticed the bit rate mode is variable, That is bad is it?

Variable bit rate is fine. Variable frame rate is bad.

ok got confused. Thanks

No worries, easy mistake to make. FWIW, I also totally endorse skiller and cornucopia's suggestion that you shoot 25fps (or 50) going forward.

appreciate that suggestion. i was using vegas platinum on another pc and rendered to .avc files and had to download Media Player Classic Home Cinema to play them. But i also got .avc.sfl and MPCHC won't play them. what are they? information files?

[smrpix]

The vegas .sfl files are the data it uses to draw the audio waveforms. These can be deleted or ignored. (If deleted they will be re-genereated from scratch each time.)

[Anonymous2]

The vegas .sfl files are the data it uses to draw the audio waveforms. These can be deleted or ignored. (If deleted they will be re-genereated from scratch each time.)

ok thanks

[Anonymous2]

Can i render as in screenshot and burn to DVD?That would be HD burned as SD? I thought i had uploaded this but do not see it. Apologies if uploaded twice

[Anonymous2]

This is media info for a short clip as taken from the camera and not even loaded to vegas or any other program. It is 25 fps. I had thought it was set to 24 fps that day

General
Complete name : C:\Users\Username\******.MOV
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt
File size : 160 MiB
Duration : 56s 400ms
Overall bit rate : 23.7 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2014-10-18 11:15:27
Tagged date : UTC 2014-10-18 11:15:27
NCDT : NCTG

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 56s 400ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 22.2 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.427
Stream size : 149 MiB (93%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2014-10-18 11:15:27
Tagged date : UTC 2014-10-18 11:15:27
Color primaries : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.601
Transfer characteristics : BT.470 System M

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : sowt
Duration : 56s 400ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Delay relative to video : 40ms
Stream size : 10.3 MiB (6%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2014-10-18 11:15:27
Tagged date : UTC 2014-10-18 11:15:27

[_Al_]

Please read this carefully and try to understand, I'm not sure you do this through out this thread ...

It is very difficult to read what you actually want, that first setting of yours is PROJECT properties, not EXPORT properties, not even DVD size etc., when you export video you have to set correct values in export template. Some export parameters could be taken from PROJECT properties settings but video resolution, frame rate,pixel aspect ratio have to be correct in EXPORT template.

there is I guess three ways to burn video on DVD,

1) almost anything, meaning video file, burn it as data, but no DVD player would play it, only computers, and bitrate should not be higher than 16-18Mbit/s or so

2) same like 1) but video is strictly by Blu-Ray specs, or at least close to those specs or format, perhaps m2ts, mts, mts, transport streams etc, or mpeg and hope that Blu-Ray player would play it, some would not. DVD players would certainly NOT play it. Maybe just some 720x576 mpeg video.

3) you have to author proper DVD structure , that is stored in VIDEO_TS and then burn it on DVD, so all DVD players can understand it, and play it, but video resolution has to be 720x576 (for PAL DVD).

and again ConvertXDVD imports anything and makes correct DVD structure, changing video - re-encoding video, creating number 3) DVD structure, and burns it, concentrate only for this 3) solution, ..., not 1) or 2)

At least it is clear now that your video is 25p so no blending or slowing down needs to be done...., we were going to kill each other here, discussing what solution would be enough for you to get 24p to 25p (needed for DVD), number 3) solution ...

So what are you actually doing, strictly number 3) solution? That is actually recommended, because 1) or 2) need Blu-Ray player and some players might not play it anyway ...

When you go to the store and buy DVD, it is always 3) solution (getting pressed DVD not burned though), no distribution is 1) or 2) solution