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I'd really appreciate some help from you seasoned professionals here. I've read post after post, manual after manual, but I'm way out of my depth!
I know computers inside-out (software engineer by trade) - so no help required here, but I don't know the first thing about video capture.
I am trying to get some 1980-1990s era VHS tapes into digital format (home movies recorded on a good camera for the time). I have bought a Panasonic NV-HS950B video player, and a Canopus ADVC-300. I believe these are both good capture device options from what I have read.
In essence, I'm looking for the best settings to use on the hardware, and which software package will painlessly capture the footage.
My 'roadblocks' so far:
1) Both the NV-HS950B and the ADVC-300 have TBC. I understand switching it on for both will degrade the quality. Which device's TBC should I switch on? Is one 'better' than the other?
2) Is 3D noise reduction worth switching on for the VCR, and is it any good on the NV-HS950B? Or am I better off doing this in software afterwards?
3) When I have briefly attempted capture, the software I was using (Edius, I think), kept 'completing' the capture every time a new section of video appeared on the tape. These are camcorder home videos with lots of very short 'recordings'. At the end of each 'recording', the firewire capture stopped. I just want to capture the 4 hour tape in one go without having to babysit it. Is this possible?
If someone has done what I am doing, or has experience with this hardware, a quick 'I used these DIP settings, and these VCR settings' would be so much help. I just want to get the best possible quality out of the tapes before they degrade any further, and I can try to clean up and improve the footage at a later date.
Thank you
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Dealing with the capture software first, just use WinDV and you can 'capture' just as much or as little as you want.
The TBC is trickier since I do not think you can turn that off on the ADVC. Saying that, I have never had issues with it.
There are all sorts of settings and Canopus expect you to be conversant with them - they do not explain them in the manual. You do have a manual ? If not, I did upload that in a topic some time ago so do search the forum if not.
Also, you can control this unit from a PC rather than by the dips. To do this you must install the picture-controller software than came with it. Disk missing ?. Again, that has also been uploaded here but in another topic. -
When dealing with analog material there is no single best answer regarding TBC and noise reduction. TBC is generally helpful, noise reduction can make the image look to plastic-y if overdone. Try a test short both ways.
Neither the TBC in the deck nor the ADVC are likely to compensate for a total loss of signal, so you will be forced to babysit the capture if there are breaks in the tapes. (The software doesn't know the difference between a break and the end of the tape.)
WinDV, as DB83 indicated is excellent and simple. -
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Thank you for all the replies - that is really helpful. I have the manuals for both units, but don't have the depth of understanding of all the terminology to know what to switch on/off for the best possible capture.
@manono - Thank you for the info - when I contacted Canopus some time ago, they suggested that if TBC is on for both the VCR and the ADVC-300 that it will worsen the picture. As it looks like you can't turn off TBC for the ADVC-300 (from what I have read), do you have experience of leaving it on for both? Does it cause any problems as they suggest?
@smrpix That's a shame that I will have to stand over the capture. Is there not any software that will just start capturing again when the signal picks up after a loss? Or is this not technically possible?
@DB8 I do have all the software for the capture devices. I have a feeling that when I tried picture controller a few years ago (before I gave up the first time!), it didn't work with later Windows versions or 64 bit Windows (I run Windows 8.1 64 bit). Is there are newer version of picture controller hidden on Grass Valley's website somewhere? It's a really old version when I look at the downloads associated with my account (that has the serial number of the ADVC-300 attached). -
No. AFAIK there is only one version of Picture-Controller. I do not know about Win8.1 but it does work on Win7-64. Well it does for me.
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The TBC in your VCR is much better than the so-called TBC in the ADVC300. Unless/until you see specific problems on specific problem tapes, you should not switch the VCR's TBC off.
Don't you need the picture controller to set the levels correctly on the ADVC300? Unless your source happens to be right, which broadcasts often are, but home movies often aren't.
Cheers,
David. -
First, they're full of it to even imply there's a choice to turn it off or keep it on and to say using one in a VCR at the same time would result in poorer quality captures. I just had a look at the manual and it confirmed there's no way to turn it off using either the switches or the software. Second, their 'TBC' is either non-existent or so weak as to be useless. I always have the Panasonic's one on and have never had a problem - it does its job. I have read of instances when using a line TBC might result in worse captures and 2Bdecided suggests the same. Do as he recommended.Originally Posted by skuffle
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Thank you, this is really helpful, I will attempt a few captures with it switched on. I wasn't aware I needed to adjust levels during the capture - are there specific levels that I should be looking to change during capture that I can't fix in post-processing? I was going in with the attitude that I capture as raw as possible and fix anything after the capture in software. Is this a bad way to approach things?Originally Posted by 2Bdecided
Thanks for looking at that, and for the clarification - it looks like the consensus is to leave both TBCs switched on, then - it's really helpful to get feedback from people that have actually used this hardware in the type of capture I'm attempting.First, they're full of it to even imply there's a choice to turn it off or keep it on and to say using one in a VCR at the same time would result in poorer quality captures. I just had a look at the manual and it confirmed there's no way to turn it off using either the switches or the software. Second, their 'TBC' is either non-existent or so weak as to be useless. I always have the Panasonic's one on and have never had a problem - it does its job. I have read of instances when using a line TBC might result in worse captures and 2Bdecided suggests the same. Do as he recommended.
Excellent, I'll try installing the version they offer as a download and see how I get on.No. AFAIK there is only one version of Picture-Controller. I do not know about Win8.1 but it does work on Win7-64. Well it does for me.
I'm trying to gather as much information on how to do this right the first time. I've attempted to get going a few times now, but been completely overwhelmed by all the options, settings and terminology, and have never felt confident enough to get a good capture without trying 100 permutations of settings and meticulously comparing each one. I know there are things you need to get right on the capture, and things you can 'fix' at a later date in software. It's knowing which are which that I find difficult! The information you guys have given is invaluable - thanks
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Yes, blacks at 0 and whites at 255 are ruined forever. Ideally you want them at 16-235, but anything above 0 and below 255 can be fixed later on. You should do a few 30-second test caps and put on a histogram or the AviSynth script:Originally Posted by skuffle
ColorYUV(Analyze=True).Limiter(Show="Luma")
Adjust the brightness and contrast if necessary, test again, and then do the 'real' caps. That's how I do it, anyway. And I use nothing from their software besides brightness, contrast and saturation (my caps are usually black and white).
Nothing beats testing and experimenting.I'm trying to gather as much information on how to do this right the first time. -
Everyone here has gone through the business of thinking their first capture project to death. Some don't get past the thinking stage and never make a capture (we had one such thread here that went on for almost 2 years, and we never saw a single piece of captured video). Then again, many have that "ideal" capture setup in mind with a VHS tape and are detemined to make the perfect capture on the first and every try.
What you do is capture a few minutes of video from different segments of a tape, and check what you get. Submit samples if you have questions or can't figure out a problem. It's like most endeavors -- you just do it and learn from doing it. Subsequent captures get easier and better. But you have to start somewhere.- My sister Ann's brother -
Even the 'experts' have to learn somehow (and no, I do not regard myself as one)
The beauty of this place is that there are people who will give their time to help. I well remember when I was learning - that was before I found this place - and I was in conversation with a guy who said "I learnt all I know from blahblahblah" except he was more than reluctant to share what he had learnt.
And most of us are still learning because we find another tip and think "Gee. Wish I had thought of that". I well recall the words of one of my school teachers "The minute you stop learning, you are dead"
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