Correct subtitle bottom offset in tsMuxeR?

[hbenthow]

I'm using tsMuxeR to mux some files into Blu-ray format. I'm having a hard time discovering the correct offset from the bottom of the screen in the subtitle settings.

In the attempts i have made so far, the subtitles seem too far down in position for the aspect ratio of the video (2.35.1). That is to say, they appear in the black bar at the bottom of the screen, rather than over the bottom of the picture the way they do in studio-released Blu-rays. When a character's line is long enough to take up to lines of text, the top line of text is mostly in the picture as opposed to the black bar, while the bottom one is in the black bar as usual (ie, the bottom line is always in the black bar, whether or not there is a second line above it).

It appears that the the problem is that offset of 24 pixels that tsMuxeR uses by default is designed for 16:9 video, and thus doesn't look right with 2.35.1. The thing is, I don't know the correct offset to have the subs perfectly aligned for 2.35.1.

I wish there was some easy to find "industry standard" of what the size, offset, etc, of subtitles should be for each aspect ratio. Getting subtitles to look just right is a huge pain in the neck.

[El Heggunte]

If I were you, I would first convert the text-based subtitles into image-based subtitles (.SUP),
and only then I would use TSMuxer.

tools: easySUP, BDSupEdit, bdsup2sub++

[hbenthow]

If I were you, I would first convert the text-based subtitles into image-based subtitles (.SUP),
and only then I would use TSMuxer.

easySUP, bdsupedit, bdsup2sub++

I tried using easySUP once, but had the same problem: I don't know the best settings. (Margin, size, etc).

Doesn't tsMuxer convert the SRT subs to SUP while muxing to Blu-ray?

[El Heggunte]

I tried using easySUP once, but had the same problem: I don't know the best settings. (Margin, size, etc).

Doesn't tsMuxer convert the SRT subs to SUP while muxing to Blu-ray?

Yes, TSmuxer converts SRT to SUP, since there cannot be SRT in the TS container...
however it was not designed to be a subtitle editor

Convert your SRT file to SSA or ASS, and then goto easySUP.
Both the SSA and ASS formats give you full-control of the text positioning.

[hbenthow]

I tried using easySUP once, but had the same problem: I don't know the best settings. (Margin, size, etc).

Doesn't tsMuxer convert the SRT subs to SUP while muxing to Blu-ray?

Yes, TSmuxer converts SRT to SUP, since there cannot be SRT in the TS container...
however it was not designed to be a subtitle editor

Convert your SRT file to SSA or ASS, and then goto easySUP.
Both the SSA and ASS formats give you full-control of the text positioning.

The problem is not that I don't have control over the text positioning. I do. The bottom offset setting in tsMuxeR and the margin setting in easySUP let me fully control the positioning. I just don't know the right settings to get the position just right.

I tried installing Sub-Station Alpha (which you linked to), but it wouldn't install on my computer. I have now installed a program called Convert Srt To Ssa (which I found here: http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Other-VIDEO-Tools/Convert-SRT-To-SSA.shtml), and am now faced with the exact same problem: it has settings to control the position of the subs, but I don't know the right settings. Having full control over the position doesn't help me if I don't know the right position.

[videobruger]

A bit of math (arithmetic):

a 2.35:1 aspect on a 1920x1080 BD display gives an "effective" display heigth of 1920/2.35 = 817 pixel
leaving black bars of (1080-817)/2 = 131 pixels at top and bottom.
Using the default offset of 24 from tsMuxerGUI ours would be 131+24 = 155 pixels which looks something like this muxing a srt fil with tsMuxerGUI.



But why you would put the subtitles into the video instead of using the black bar at bottom is beyond me.

[hbenthow]

A bit of math (arithmetic):

a 2.35:1 aspect on a 1920x1080 BD display gives an "effective" display heigth of 1920/2.35 = 817 pixel
leaving black bars of (1080-817)/2 = 131 pixels at top and bottom.
Using the default offset of 24 from tsMuxerGUI ours would be 131+24 = 155 pixels which looks something like this muxing a srt fil with tsMuxerGUI.


[Attachment 29777 - Click to enlarge]

Thank you. That's what I'm looking for.

Do you happen to know the usual font size used on most Blu-ray subtitles?

But why you would put the subtitles into the video instead of using the black bar at bottom is beyond me.

Because, as far as I know, that's how it's always done on professionally-made Blu-rays. All of the Blu-rays that I've seen have the subtitles in the picture. I'm trying to get these subtitles to look as close as possible to those on professionally-made Blu-rays. Plus, even with the default offset of 24, the top line of subtitles (when there are two lines due to a lot of words being spoken) is in the picture, while the bottom line is in the black bar. I find that to look odd.

In your experience, is it the usual practice to put the subtitles in the picture or the black bar?

[manono]

Do you happen to know the usual font size used on most Blu-ray subtitles?

I'm not videobruger but why should you care what the studios use? I like my own subtitles more than the 'official' ones usually. I use Tahoma and like it just fine. The one videobruger showed, while in italics, also looks nice, don't you agree? Use a font and size and color and position that pleases you.

In your experience, is it the usual practice to put the subtitles in the picture or the black bar?

In my experience it's more common to have them in the active video. After all, some people use projectors and mask off the black and need them in the video. Or they might want to zoom the video to get rid of the black bars (ignorantly, in my opinion, as you also lose the sides of the video) and when doing so they'll lose the subs. But different studios do it differently. It's very bad, in my opinion, to have a two-line sub be split between the video and the black. One or the other, I think.

[hbenthow]

Do you happen to know the usual font size used on most Blu-ray subtitles?

I'm not videobruger but why should you care what the studios use? I like my own subtitles more than the 'official' ones usually. I use Tahoma and like it just fine. The one videobruger showed, while in italics, also looks nice, don't you agree? Use a font and size and color and position that pleases you.

A good point.

In your experience, is it the usual practice to put the subtitles in the picture or the black bar?
In my experience it's more common to have them in the active video. After all, some people use projectors and mask off the black and need them in the video. Or they might want to zoom the video to get rid of the black bars (ignorantly, in my opinion, as you also lose the sides of the video) and when doing so they'll lose the subs. But different studios do it differently. It's very bad, in my opinion, to have a two-line sub be split between the video and the black. One or the other, I think.

I think I'll put them in the video and not the black bars, then.

Thank you for the advice.

[El Heggunte]

@videobruger: thanks for taking the time to tell the OP what I thought that should be obvious

(yes, I keep forgetting that what is evident to me, often is not evident to many/most people )

@hbenthow: nope, I didn't "link" to the SubStation Alpha software, it was this forum's software (vBulletin) "who" did it.

It seems most people use Aegisub, AFAIR only manono keeps using SubStation Alpha

But I myself use neither of them. I convert SRTs to SSAs with an old version of Subtitle Workshop,
and then I edit the files manually with a plain-text editor (EditPlus). For testing the results, I use MPC-HC plus the DirectVobSub filter
(I don't like the internal subtitle renderer of MPC-HC).

FWIW, I prefer 'center-justified Toptitles' (according to the SSA terminology) to 'center-justified Bottomtitles'
(which is the "default" way of rendering SRTs). Hopefully the code below will say it all:

Line-1 TOPtitle                      Line-1 TOPtitle   
                                     Line-2 TOPtitle   Line-1 BOTTOMtitle
                Line-1 BOTTOMtitle                     Line-2 BOTTOMtitle

I strongly disagree with the common idea that a subtitle entry
"shall not contain more than two lines of text"

[hbenthow]

It seems most people use Aegisub, AFAIR only manono keeps using SubStation Alpha

But I myself use neither of them. I convert SRTs to SSAs with an old version of Subtitle Workshop,
and then I edit the files manually with a plain-text editor (EditPlus). For testing the results, I use MPC-HC plus the DirectVobSub filter
(I don't like the internal subtitle renderer of MPC-HC).

If the results I get from tsMuxeR seem satisfactory, would it be best to just use it, and not bother with standalone subtitle editors?

What are the benefits of using SSA, as opposed to SUP (which appears easier to create, via easySUP)?

I briefly tried using Aegisub, but couldn't figure out how to convert the subtitles to SSA, or how to adjust their position.

[El Heggunte]

If the results I get from tsMuxeR seem satisfactory, would it be best to just use it, and not bother with standalone subtitle editors?

But of course.

What are the benefits of using SSA, as opposed to SUP (which appears easier to create, via easySUP)?

I hope you meant "What are the benefits of using SSA, as opposed to SRT"

SSA let's you choose multiple colors, multiple fonts and multiple sizes, top subtitles and middle/bottom subtitles at the same time,
IF necessary.
ASS stands for 'Advanced SubStation (Alpha)', and is recognized by easySUP, therefore no need to convert ASS to SSA.

I briefly tried using Aegisub, but couldn't figure out how to convert the subtitles to SSA, or how to adjust their position.

Hopefully the attachment below will help.

[manono]

AFAIR only manono keeps using SubStation Alpha

I doubt I'm the only one but you're right, I do use it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Besides, I also use MaestroSBT to make subs for DVDs and it accepts only SSA subs as input.

[hbenthow]

SSA let's you choose multiple colors, multiple fonts and multiple sizes, top subtitles and middle/bottom subtitles at the same time,
IF necessary.

Ah, I see. I currently have no need for such advanced capabilities.

I briefly tried using Aegisub, but couldn't figure out how to convert the subtitles to SSA, or how to adjust their position.

Hopefully the attachment below will help.

But that looks like a manual for Sub-Station Alpha, not Aegisub.

[El Heggunte]

I give up -.-

[manono]

But that looks like a manual for Sub-Station Alpha, not Aegisub.

They're somewhat similar. Just think of Aegisub as an advanced or upgraded version of SubStation Alpha (SSA).

[hbenthow]

They're somewhat similar. Just think of Aegisub as an advanced or upgraded version of SubStation Alpha (SSA).

Ah, I see. Thank you.