True TBC for SECAM ,MESECAM ?

[mr.JANGO]

There are good VHS recorders on ebay with TBC. They play secam mesecam, but TBC there only for PAL. Prompt model recorder with TBC secam. Or should I use the DVD recorder c TBC type SONY HXD870 if "nature" there are no VCR machines.

[Cornucopia]

There is no such thing as a TBC for SECAM.

SECAM is a broadcast (RF) spec. When existing on tape (VHS, etc) there is ONLY NTSC or PAL. If you are in Belarus, you should have a PAL VCR. So you will need a PAL TBC.

TBC's only work on the baseband signal (Component/composite/S-video), not the RF signal.

Scott

[mr.JANGO]

I understand you. Thank you, but I have a very old tape is recorded on the Moscow TV in the Soviet Union. My JVC plays its switching MESECAM are in color but there is a horizontal frame jitter. I think how to apply to this tape TBС.

[Cornucopia]

My mistake, it looks like there was MESECAM recorders for a short time and in a select few countries (yours?). Sounds like you will need a "scan converter" box, prior to connection to a PAL TBC (AFAIK, there still is no MESECAM TBCs).

Here is a link to an old thread on the same/similar topic: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/138745-MESECAM-recording

Scott

[mr.JANGO]

Thank you again! It's interesting. I will read. I congratulate late, but Happy New Year!

[pandy]

Not sure if anything like real SECAM TBC can be achievable - perhaps you can try approach from http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=152706 and similar threads... http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=162726

Capturing rising edge of H sync allow to measure real pixel shift, SECAM demodulation can be performed by capture IC (for sure Bt878/Cx2388x and SAA7134 support SECAM decoding/demodulation) - at the end, measured pixel shift can be applied to decoded video.

Alternatively greyscale oversampled video can be captured and SECAM demodulation can be performed in software but there is no ready to be used solution (FM demodulation algorithm need to be implemented for example http://www.google.com/patents/US20030043301 or similar).

This link can be interested for You http://www.rtl-sdr.ru/page/no-title-2 (but seem RF signal is accepted, only BW video).

[themaster1]

you'd need a vcr that can transcode on the fly from secam to pal the jvc Hr-8600MS can do that

vcr secam> transcoding in pal > external TBC > capture

edit:
hmm after reading the manual more in depth l it can't do that for mesecam (secam out only not pal)

[hech54]

Aren't we talking about the old East German SECAM?......which is different from MESECAM?.....sort of like French SECAM L?

[Cornucopia]

Supposedly, MESECAM is short for "Middle Eastern"-SECAM. A (non-compatible/partially-compatible) variation.

Scott

[hech54]

I have a SECAM L tape here but nothing to play it in(unless of course you like B&W). Supposedly I can add a decoder chip to my Panasonic VCR to enable color playback of SECAM L tapes but am not sure what happens once installed.....will the menu reflect this added feature?
Nobody Knows.

[pandy]

Aren't we talking about the old East German SECAM?......which is different from MESECAM?.....sort of like French SECAM L?

MESECAM exist only on VCR - VCR use FM modulation for separate Chroma and Luma channel, NTSC and PAL are converted to FM (PAL/NTSC is demodulated then modulated by FM, chroma part is stored on tape bellow luminance).
As SECAM is FM modulated by definition (B-Y and R-Y have different FM carriers) , only simple heterodyne is used to shift chroma part of spectrum down and luminance is traditionally converted to FM, during playout exactly opposite process is applied - this allow to simplify electronics and perhaps slightly improve quality.

[Cornucopia]

From what I read, MESECAM differed in the fact that it did NOT use FM for the color, but AM. At least as per: http://www.cavsi.com/questionsanswers/what-is-mesecam/, and http://www.wrslabs.com/standards.html.

Scott

[pandy]

From what I read, MESECAM differed in the fact that it did NOT use FM for the color, but AM. At least as per: http://www.cavsi.com/questionsanswers/what-is-mesecam/, and http://www.wrslabs.com/standards.html.

Scott

You can't use AM on video tape as tape is used in non linear way (audio is different story as HF bias current can be used to linearize magnetic characteristic of tape - not possible for video), VCR use FM (Luma is stored as FM and Chroma is FM also, only C isset bellow 1MHz ,where Luma is over 1MHz - as such any VCR use separate, non overlapping spectrum for Y and C - kind of similar to S-Video - it doesn't mean that every VCR is S-Video).

SECAM natively use FM so it can be recorded directly after some transformation (deviation of FM must be reduced), for PAL this is not possible directly.

http://www.ntsc-tv.com/ntsc-index-09.htm

[2Bdecided]

SECAM is FM. The colour signals on VHS are FM for both VHS SECAM and VHS MESECAM.

VHS SECAM takes the broadcast SECAM signal and downconverts the chroma part using a divider circuit (divide by 4). The resulting frequency is about 1.1MHz; the resulting chroma frequency deviation is also reduced by a factor of four compared with the broadcast.

VHS MESECAM takes the broadcast SECAM signal and downconverts the chroma part using a heterodyne circuit (just like PAL). The resulting frequency is about 600MHz (quite like VHS PAL); the resulting chroma frequency deviation is unchanged from the broadcast.

None of this helps the OP - sorry. I've seen a PAL+SECAM VCR with a TBC, and the TBC only worked with PAL content.

Cheers,
David.

[mr.JANGO]

To use the patches for AviSinth were offered to the other branch of this forum will have more work on them.
But so far I have questions following questions:
1) Do VCR other recorders can accept input signal SECAM and convert it to PAL (for example through the euro scart) ? Or a signal from recorder PAL / MESECAM already comes to PAL conversion
2) Can be used VCRs to Time Base Corrector for the input signal through scart (read somewhere that this DVD recorder can)....