PAL VHS tapes to digital conversion help

[alfaromeo155]

Hi,
I have a bunch of PAL VHS tapes that i would like to convert to NTSC and burn to DVD with the best possible results as far as the final picture quality.
I am considering two option here. Since I already have the VHS multi region player, what would be the better option here:

1. To use http://www.220-electronics.com/international-kdv-8000-pal-ntsc-video-converter.html?or...FQ_l7Aod1jgA1g International KDV-8000 PAL to NTSC converter with up-scaling capability and then feed the up-scaled signal out of the HDMI output through the http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004F9LVXC/#customerReviews ViewHD 2 Port 1x2 Powered HDMI Mini Splitter to deal with the HDCP issues to the HD capture card on my PC and then record to Blu-Ray DVD or other media.

2. To use something like Grass Valley ADVC110 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/349146-REG/Grass_Valley_602029_ADVC_110_Bidirect...FWRp7Aod2hoANA to capture the analog PAL signal out of VHS player and then use the converting software like Wondershare or AVS or other to do the conversion to NTSC and then record to the DVD

The only thing that I am not sure if the converting software can up-convert or enhance the file before burning to DVD.
I know the first way seems to be way more expensive, but I wanted to get the maximum out of the tapes quality. Please, share your thoughts, I will greatly appreciate this.

[manono]

1. Those things are crap. I bought one and learned the bitter truth myself.
2. That's one way (an ADVC box). Also, the USB capture devices can cap both NTSC and PAL. They're inexpensive and have the added bonus of being able to cap losslessly.

You said 'best possible results', but then mention an inferior way to do the conversion. The all-in-one program AvsToDVD can do the conversion decently. Many of us that are serious about this try and do some restoration first, before converting to and making an NTSC DVD. Also, your multi-region player isn't the best way to capture a PAL tape. A PAL VCR is, particularly one with a TBC and S-Video connection. But, if that's all you have, then...

[alfaromeo155]

Thanks for quick response. Which ADVC box and capture device would you recommend?
What would be the superior way of doing this? I think I was influenced by the "up conversion" of the first way.

[DB83]

Looking at that converter box which, on paper, looks an ideal item, I read its inputs spec...

Video Converter Input Signals:
•All Formats of Pal except Pal M, Pal N : PAL B, PAL D, PAL N, PAL G, PAL H, PAL I, PAL K, PAL M

That line is most confusing since you can read it that that the unit accepts practically NO STANDARD versions of PAL so basically, despite its claims it is a NTSC to PAL converter.

If it does work as you think then there really should not be any hdcp issues with it. But there's hardly any point in up-converting if you are going to create a dvd.

At the outset, you need to determine if these VHS are copy-protected since if they are you need more equipment.

There are decent usb capture devices which you can get for about $50. So avoid the tempting easycap junk.

I am not familiar with the ADVC 110. I suspect it just captures the signal it sees ie PAL in and thus PAL out. The much more expensive 300 has dip switches to set the input and also some rudimentary signal enhancement controls.

[manono]

I have an ADVC 300 myself. Other than being able to use their proc amp before transferring, the cheaper ones work just as well. You also need a firewire port or a firewire card installed in your computer. As for the USB capturing devices, this one is well thought of around here:

www.amazon.com/Diamond-Camcorders-supporting-composite-connection/dp/B000VM60I8/

What's the best way to do this? Buying a good PAL DVD player with a line TBC, capping lossless, filtering and converting to NTSC in AviSynth also in lossless, before then converting to DVD video using a top quality MPEG-2 encoder.

There are many threads here about doing this sort of thing. And you're getting only my views on the subject while there are about as many different opinions as there are people doing what you want to do.

[alfaromeo155]

At the outset, you need to determine if these VHS are copy-protected since if they are you need more equipment.

No, they are not, this is just home video shot with the vhs pal camcorder

[jagabo]

I think I was influenced by the "up conversion" of the first way.

Your HDTV will upscale SD as well as those devices.

[alfaromeo155]

sorry for the stupid question, how do you open AviSynth, i have win8, downloaded , installed, dont see the lunch icon

[LMotlow]

Avisynth is script driven. Most people would use VirtualDub to run an Avisynth script, monitor the results, and save the output. Other apps can be used to take AVisynth's output.

I think you're getting ahead of yourself. Avisynth is great for cleaning up VHS captures. But more specifically, what do you want to do in Avisynth at this time?

[alfaromeo155]

Avisynth is script driven. Most people would use VirtualDub to run an Avisynth script, monitor the results, and save the output. Other apps can be used to take AVisynth's output.

I think you're getting ahead of yourself. Avisynth is great for cleaning up VHS captures. But more specifically, what do you want to do in Avisynth at this time?

I bought Diamond VC500 recently. I use it to transfer PAL VHS tapes to my PC ( i got PAL vcr as well) . The file is transfered to the PC now. Now I would like to use some software to maybe enhance/clean up the video a little and convert it to NTCS and burn to DVD so I can watch on the regular DVD palyer. So this is basically my intention here. Maybe im using the wrong software for this, so please, advise. Thank you

[jagabo]

sorry for the stupid question, how do you open AviSynth, i have win8, downloaded , installed, dont see the lunch icon

AviSynth runs automatically in the background when you open an AviSynth script in a video encoder, a video editor, or media player. First you create a script with the extension .AVS. That script contains the commands to open the source video and apply any filters (you can use Notepad for this, or special purpose tools like Avspmod).

AviSource("filename.avi")
FlipVertical()

Open that script as if it was a video file (VirtualDub is a good choice for viewing the results of your script, use File -> Open Video File). Not all programs can open AVS scripts.

http://avisynth.nl/index.php/Main_Page#New_to_AviSynth_-_start_here

[alfaromeo155]

is there any other good program that does not use scripts?

[newpball]

I wanted to get the maximum out of the tapes quality. Please, share your thoughts, I will greatly appreciate this.

Ok, in that case, capture lossless and view it interlaced at 25i or deinterlace and frame double to 50p.

Things do not have to be put on a DVD in order to be viewed on a modern TV.

[LMotlow]

For cleaning up problems you see in your video? VirtualDub.
You mean something that does it all for you and creates DVD files that can be burned to disc? Adobe Premiere Elements. Not much for any cleanup work, though. A freebie is AVStoDVD.

We don't really know what you mean by "transferred VHS to DVD". I think you mean you captured the VHS video to your computer. What format did you capture to? DV-AVI? MPEG? Lossless AVI?

[alfaromeo155]

with the EZ grabber that came with the VC500 capturing formats are DVD-AVI-SVCD-WMV-VCD-WMA-MPG4-MP3 , i assume the DVD and AVI would be the highest available with the software. Yes, i meant captured video to pc

[smrpix]

with the EZ grabber that came with the VC500 capturing formats are DVD-AVI-SVCD-WMV-VCD-WMA-MPG4-MP3 , i assume the DVD and AVI would be the highest available with the software. Yes, i meant captured video to pc

You're going to have to test it and see. They do not list specs and, according to user reviews, the settings are not adjustable.

[LMotlow]

Yes, the VC500 can capture to several formats. Which format did you capture to?

[alfaromeo155]

Yes, the VC500 can capture to several formats. Which format did you capture to?

it looks the best with the DVD format, so i captured to this format. All i need now is to find the software where I can maybe apply some sharpening or other enhancements, and convert it to NTSC

[manono]

it looks the best with the DVD format, so i captured to this format. All i need now is to find the software where I can maybe apply some sharpening or other enhancements...

If you're going to be reencoding it, then you shouldn't have captured to MPEG-2, especially not to MPEG-2 at DVD bitrates. Does it allow for high (15,000) MPEG-2 bitrates? Maybe the included software doesn't allow it, but capping through VDub will allow you to cap losslessly. If doing 'enhancements', that will give you the best final results.

...and convert it to NTSC

Do you know how? If not, maybe check out AvsToDVD as the best 'all-in-one' software for doing the conversion.

[LMotlow]

it looks the best with the DVD format, so i captured to this format. All i need now is to find the software where I can maybe apply some sharpening or other enhancements...

If you're going to be reencoding it, then you shouldn't have captured to MPEG-2, especially not to MPEG-2 at DVD bitrates. Does it allow for high (15,000) MPEG-2 bitrates? Maybe the included software doesn't allow it, but capping through VDub will allow you to cap losslessly. If doing 'enhancements', that will give you the best final results.

...and convert it to NTSC

Do you know how? If not, maybe check out AvsToDVD as the best 'all-in-one' software for doing the conversion.

Yep, VHS to MPEG was a bad move if you expect to make changes. Lemme tell ya about formats like MPEG, h264, XVid, DivX, WMV, etc. They're known as final delivery formats. Not designed for editing unless you're willing to suffer considerable and highly visible quality loss. If you're talking about color correction, sharpening, etc., you can forget about those MPEG's looking "okay" the way they did when you captured -- they won't look that way when you're finished and will never look that way again. Even with DV-AVI, that sort of work requires lossy re-encoding.

As manono said, you should have capped to lossless or at worst to DV-AVI if you intended to make those modifications. The only simple cut-and-join editing you can do at this point would be with a smart-rendering editor, which are few and far between with free software, which have precious few features for you to play with. If you intend to add music, transitions like fades and dissolves, titles, overlays, etc., you're stuck with re-encoding and quality loss again.


Your best bet is to recapture. Otherwise, get yourself a good smart-rendering app (which will cost $$$) and/or go straight to DVD disc with something like DVDAuthor, which won't re-encode.

[newpball]

Yes making modifications to MPEG-2 is a bad idea, also sharpening VHS sources is seldom a good idea.

Sharpening destroys information and only makes sense if you downconvert a source.
And obviously you would not want to downconvert a VHS source.

[alfaromeo155]

its not a big deal to recapture, so dont get me wrong. I captured just a little bit of video to try things out and see the result. I also dont mind paying $ and getting the software, i just dont know a lot about which one would be the good choice for what i need. As far as VHS to MPEG that i did, i pretty much had little choice to chose from what came with the VC500. The next format AVI for some reason looked much worse. Not sure also what software to use to losslesly recapture the video with VC500. How do I cap to lossless format with this USB device?
Also on the side note, i put the capped video on the USB thumb drive and put it in my Samsung LED TV and it plays in color and everything looks good. So im kind of not sure if i really need to convert to NTSC, maybe it was done at the time of capturing, which I doubt, it showed that the source was PAL, didnt give me any choice for the output except for the video format that I posted above, or maybe TV reads PAL, not sure, TV is Samsung UN46C6900

[manono]

I also dont mind paying $ and getting the software,

Paying for what software? All the alternative suggestions mentioned are free. Unless you're planning on smart rendering. Then you might have to pay, but the impression I got was that your 'enhancements' would be for the whole video so a full reencode is necessary.

Open a VOB in MediaInfo and if it's 720x576 25fps, It's PAL. Your television might read the raw files but your DVD player will, most likely, only read NTSC DVDs.