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  1. Member
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    Hi @all,

    although a longtime reader I just registered a few minutes ago after stumbling over this thread because I'm having a problem with Film 9. Earlier this day I read about this software at work and because I was looking for some specialised tools for restauration of some Super 8 movies that can do what Vegas Pro and DaVinci Resolve can't do and Film 9 seemed to be "the" solution. So I installed Film 9 on my laptop at work, which is an older Intel Core i5 2500, running Windows 7 Pro, and everything went fine. Now I'm at home and just installed Film 9 on this machine, which is running Windows 10 Pro on an Intel Core i5 6500 with 16 GB Ram. After installing all the necessary tools that were needed for Film 9 I tried to fire up the program, but without success. I can see the loading screen and the programm window for about 2 seconds, but then it's closing very quickly I looked in the eventviewer to see if I can find something related to this appcrash, burt all I could find was the error message, that a lot of Windows users seem to have after the update to v1809. You can read s.th. about this here: https://www.tenforums.com/general-support/118976-new-1809-update-now-shows-event-viewer.html

    Microsoft removed a service in the 1809 update which was called "tiledatamodelsvc" (Read more about it in posting #4 in the given link above.) but some entries in the registry had not been removed and this might cause the error message in the eventviewer. Windows is running absolutely fine though and I wasn't even aware that a problem might exist.
    Maybe it has s.th. to do with the appcrash. Time and date stamp of the error messages in the eventviewer are exactly the same with when I tried to start the program....

    I have to say that this is a clean machine which is mainly used for music production (Cubase 10, Wavelab 9.5) and some Videoediting using Vegas Pro 15, Davinci Resolve 15 and VirtualDub .
    Any ideas what might cause Film 9 to crash?


    Sorry for bad english...no native speaker ^^
    Last edited by sholee; 6th Dec 2018 at 18:28. Reason: Be kind to my mistakes...
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  2. Member
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    IGNORE this post. My project codec changed from Lagarith to X.264, which affected some of my videos. Everything works fine now.
    "I have a problem playing some processed Film9 files in Windows Media Player. One file will play fine while another file shows random corruption while playing. VirtualDub plays the files with no problem. Any idea why? (I'm running a Windows 7, 64-bit system with Film9 version 2.13)

    I was hoping to distribute the Lagarith-based AVI files to family members to play in Windows Media Player without compressing the files to another format. The original source files had been compressed badly by someone else before I got them. I am trying not to degrade the images any more than they are already.

    During processing, there is a Video tab at the top of the processing window. What is this tab showing? There are occasional, random red lines that show up in the middle of the blue lines. What do the red lines indicate?"
    Thanks to everyone who has helped create this simplified interface to AviSynth and VirtualDub!

    Steve
    Last edited by stevevid; 7th Dec 2018 at 12:59. Reason: Problem solved
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  3. Member
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    I have several films that were captured poorly by someone else that I am trying to improve. I have some basic questions about the before and after video format changes.

    The original files are interlaced in a weird sort of way (odd 3/2 pulldown). I set Film9 to Video Tape capture since the source is interlaced, retain the source clip dimensions, and use Lagarith encoding. I am not sure what format the resulting Film9 file is in. I assume progressive since the frame rate doubled -- true? Also, why did the Chroma Subsampling change from 4:1:1 to 4:2:0 and the aspect ratio change from 4:3 to 3:2? The before and after file information are included below.

    Original file information:
    Format : AVI
    Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
    Commercial name : DVCPRO
    File size : 174 MiB
    Duration : 48 s 81 ms
    Overall bit rate mode : Constant
    Overall bit rate : 30.3 Mb/s
    Recorded date : 2018-07-08T17:19:21-05:00
    Writing library : VirtualDub build 32842/release

    Video
    ID : 0
    Format : DV
    Commercial name : DVCPRO
    Codec ID : dvsd
    Codec ID/Hint : Sony
    Duration : 48 s 81 ms
    Bit rate mode : Constant
    Bit rate : 24.4 Mb/s
    Encoded bit rate : 28.8 Mb/s
    Width : 720 pixels
    Height : 480 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 4:3
    Frame rate mode : Constant
    Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
    Original frame rate : 29.970 (29970/1000) FPS
    Standard : NTSC
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:1:1
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Scan type : Interlaced
    Scan order : Bottom Field First
    Compression mode : Lossy
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.357
    Stream size : 165 MiB (95%)
    Film9 file information:
    Format : AVI
    Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
    File size : 407 MiB
    Duration : 48 s 81 ms
    Overall bit rate : 71.1 Mb/s
    Writing library : VirtualDub2 build 43073/release

    Video
    ID : 0
    Format : Lagarith
    Codec ID : LAGS
    Duration : 48 s 81 ms
    Bit rate : 71.1 Mb/s
    Width : 720 pixels
    Height : 480 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 3:2
    Frame rate : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
    Color space : YUV
    Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
    Bit depth : 8 bits
    Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 3.431
    Stream size : 407 MiB (100%)
    Thank you,
    Steve
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  4. Originally Posted by stevevid View Post
    The original files are interlaced in a weird sort of way (odd 3/2 pulldown).
    You should post a short sample. However, it's not unusual for the 3/2 pattern to vary.
    I set Film9 to Video Tape capture since the source is interlaced
    If it's telecined it's not from a video but a film source originally.
    I assume progressive since the frame rate doubled -- true?
    Yes, bobbing a video makes it progressive.
    Also, why did the Chroma Subsampling change from 4:1:1 to 4:2:0
    Not sure, but mine are like that as well. I think it happens because they get converted to YV12, a subset of YUV.
    ...the aspect ratio change from 4:3 to 3:2?
    720/480=3/2. A Lagarith AVI doesn't carry the original aspect ratio information. You'll set that for the final encode. Since the Lagarith AVI is only an intermediate step, it doesn't really matter.
    Last edited by manono; 7th Dec 2018 at 14:20.
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    Manono, thanks for the response.

    I have a question about "If it's telecined it's not from a video but a film source originally." I know film is inherently progressive, but I thought that once it is converted into an interlaced format that it is essentially like a video tape capture (ignoring telecine). This would mean that I should set Film9 to Video Tape capture type because of the interlaced format. Is this true?

    Once I finish my film capture system, my videos will be purely progressive since I will do a frame by frame capture.

    Thanks,
    Steve
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  6. I don't know anything about Film9 settings, but I do know a lot about telecine. While it may appear at first to be the same thing as interlaced video, it is most definitely NOT the same thing because there is no temporal difference between fields, but instead you merely have repeats. IVTC simply removes the duplicate fields and you are left with the original progressive film frames. Neglecting the re-encoding, you end up with something that has no degradation compared to the original. By contrast, any deinterlacing, even with an excellent deinterlacer like QTGMC, will always degrade the video which is why I always recommend not deinterlacing unless it is required by the workflow (e.g., if you resize, you must first deinterlace).

    I know a little about some of these commercial film transfer systems (I own a MovieStuff Workprinter for 8/Super 8 and built my own 16mm transfer system) and they do often have the ability to add telecine so that you could play the result directly on an old-fashioned (non HD) TV. In this day and age, when any TV can natively play any film speed, you would be crazy to ever enable the telecine feature. Just capture and save the result in progressive format and time the playback to 24 fps (sound film); 18 fps (Super 8); 16 fps (most 16mm silent film); or any other speed that seems to work (for older film, especially film from the 1910-1930 period, which was often hand-cranked).
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    Hello stevevid,

    The output format of FILM9 is ALWAYS in Progressive, whatever the standard of the Clip Source.
    You have the choice between NTSC or PAL with the frequencies of these 2 Standards.
    The final dimension ratio corresponds to the Width/Height ratio (720/480 = 1.5 ie 3/2).
    Depending on the Codec chosen, the color space may vary. With Lagarith, it's 4:2:0. With AppleProRes, it's 4:2:2.
    Best Regards
    Gilles
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    How do the different Capture Type settings for the project affect the processing? This would be the difference between the Without Synchro, With Synchro, and Video Tape settings.

    Thank you,
    Steve
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    Everything is indicated in the documentation (Page 16) and the help-icons available on the interface.
    Also in the FAQs.

    These 3 capture modes are simply differentiated to take into account, and in particular, the number of images of the Clip Source.
    In Without-Synchro, unnecessary images are deleted, which is not the case with With-Synchro and Video Tape.
    The treatment is then almost identical.

    Regards
    Gilles
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    Thank you. I knew what the manual said. I was just wondering how the internal processing changed based on the type of input. The feedback of "In Without-Synchro, unnecessary images are deleted, which is not the case with With-Synchro and Video Tape" helps a lot. Thank you. It helps me understand what is going on inside.

    Any thoughts on the different processing approaches between With Synchro and Video Tape? I ask because I'm not sure what to use with film that has been digitized by someone else where they have created a telecined format. It will be easy when I digitize my own film because all of the video will be captured frame by frame and stored as a progressive video.

    Steve
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    There is very little difference between With-Synchro or Video Tape.
    With With-Synchro, you can reconstruct a different FrameRate output (Interpolation).
    It is especially useful for film captures (16, 8, Super-8 mm).

    Video Tape will take the FrameRate Source and keep it in the Finale (No Interpolation).
    This mode is useful for VHS, Hi8, DV, etc ... There is no problem for audio-video synchro.
    This mode is simpler.

    Gilles
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    Thank you very much!

    Steve
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    I am getting inconsistent results with the Colors Balance controls. Most of the time when I enable it it shifts colors to what I had set previously. Once in a while, the settings are the same but the image is drastically different. The colors are way off and I cannot change them with the controls. Something locked up and did not allow changes. I have to close the program and start over adjusting the clip.

    Also, I notice that some times when I use Reset to return the values to their default settings, the image and the histogram show the image did not return all the way to what was showing before the adjustments. The output histogram definitely shows a different output than it did before.

    Today I noticed that when I adjust a setting such as increase the blue strong setting from 0 to +5 and then return to 0 the blue output histogram shows the image did not return to the level it had previously with a 0 setting.

    For all of this, I have the AutoGain and AutoWhite functions turned off. I also have all degrain, sharpness, stabilization, and cleaning functions disabled. I am using Film9 version 2.13.

    Any idea why the results are inconsistent?

    Thank you,
    Steve
    Last edited by stevevid; 12th Dec 2018 at 19:46.
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    Hello Steve,
    We do not understand your problem with the Colors Balance because we have never met what you explain. And nobody reported this kind of problem.
    The only thing to remember for the histograms : if your image has Black Edges, it influences the result on the right screen (settings), even if everything is at zero in Colors Balance.
    To correctly correct the colors, you must remove the black edges with the "Black Edges" function.

    If the problem persists, upload an example of your source clip (1 minute max) for us to analyze in detail.
    Regards
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    Thanks. No black edges and the histogram was not reaching all the way to 16 or 235. I'll try to capture the event when it occurs again.

    Another problem shows up when I delete a clip. I get the following errors;

    "UpdReg| Delete: ClassSQLReglages ClassReg 39:Object reference not set to an instance of an object."

    Microsoft .NET framework error: "Unhandled exception has occurred in a component in your application. If you click Continue, the application will ignore this error and attempt to continue.
    Conversion from string "" to type 'Boolean' is not valid."

    The clip's file is also blocked from being used by anything else until I restart Windows.

    Steve
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    I have captured a couple of instances where Film9 presents odd results. I am posting one version of the error in this post and the second problem in my next post.

    This post shows an example of where Film9 is unable to release prior color balance settings. The first image shows a clip with just the Colors Base settings window turned on. The Original and Settings video panes show the same information.

    The second image shows the Color Balance settings window turned on with a few items changed. The Original and Settings video panes show the appropriate differences (I know it looks terrible. This was just a test to capture the problem.).

    The third image shows the results when I reset the Color Balance settings using the Rest button. The settings reverted to their defaults but the Settings video pane did not revert to what it was in image 1. When I turn off the Color Balance settings window the Settings video pane does revert to the way it looked in image one.

    Each time I turn the Colors Balance settings window off then on, the non-default settings return even though I had reset the values before turning off the window. For example, the Gamma adjustments return to 1.6 instead of 1. The values were at 1 when I closed the window.

    This problem remains even when I close and reopen Film9. The old color balance settings reappear.
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    This post shows a different, but related problem to what I described in my prior post.

    The first image shows a normal setup with the Colors Base and Colors Balance settings windows turned on with everything set to default values.

    The second image shows the effect of changing one of the Gamma Settings to add green to the Settings image page.

    The third image shows the result after I turned off the Colors Balance window then turned it on. The Settings video pane still shows the green tint but the Gamma Setting shows 1 instead of 1.6. The green tint goes away when I use the Reset button, which is the opposite of what happened in the problem I reported in my prior post. Very confusing.

    Another odd problem that comes up some of the time is that the Strong Color Setting for blue sometimes shows up with a value of +10 even though it was not set previously. I have not captured an example of this.

    Should I post issues like this on the forum or just email them in?
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    Hello Steve,

    First of all thank you for your messages, when the problems are described so precisely, it is much easier to correct them.
    Good we start....

    For the message:
    "UpdReg | Delete: ClassSQLReglages ClassReg 39: Object reference not set to an instance of an object."
    This bug occurs when you have active setting windows and are trying to delete a clip.
    This will be corrected in the next update. In the meantime, you can manually close your settings windows before deleting a clip.

    For both problems related to color balance, the source is a misdirected value problem.
    It is corrected, but it will be necessary to wait for the update of the application which will be made in the following days.

    For the last problem mentioned "Strong Color Setting for blue sometimes shows up with a value of +10", I could not reproduce this problem, nor see where the problem came from,
    but with a little more info this will be possible, in the meantime we test ...

    If you notice other problems, we are willing to correct them.
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    Great! Thank you!

    BTW, I sent a donation yesterday.

    Steve
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    I am getting good results with Film9 with most clips I am trying to improve. I usually have the autogain and autowhite balance turned off and adjust the various settings to get best look. I have some clips that I can not find a solution for. The attached clip is from a poor film digitization done by someone else. There are two parts to the clip. The first part has a lot of oddly colored grass. I cannot find a way to get the grass color and skin tones to look right at the same time. Any ideas?

    For the second part of the clip, I am unable to get good color all around. The plant leaves always look bad. I can get the skin tones and the concrete to look pretty good, but the table always has a tint to it. The table is supposed to be white. Suggestions?

    Thanks,
    Steve
    Image Attached Files
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  21. Member
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    I have been saving the presets for each clip I am processing. The list is becoming quite long so I created a single page form to store the settings outside of Film9. The form is in Excel and mirrors the setup of Film9. The easiest approach for me is to print multiple blank copies and fill in a form for each clip. It is a very quick process to transfer the settings from Film9 with all Film9 control windows open at the same time. Now, if I need to go back to a clip and make adjustments it's very easy to renter all of the data. I can also compare settings for multiple clips at the same time.

    A copy of the form is attached below if anyone is interested in trying it out. The form has the three major sections (Presettings, Settings, and Options) listed on the left and then each successive layer is listed from left to right. For functions that can be turned on or off, I just mark the item's On indicator with a check mark or x. I write values next to each listed setting. For items that don't have values such as AutoGain and Single Action, I mark their values with a check mark or x to show if the item is on or off.

    If a section is marked as off, I don't fill in any additional information. This speeds the process since only functions that are used are filled in.

    I use the additional processing box to make notes on other programs I use to manipulate the clip. For example, I use VirtualDub's Deshaker filter occassionally to stabilize video. It has worked quite well on some of the badly digitized film that has not only bad camera shake but also judder introduced by the capture process.

    Steve

    BTW: I was not able to attach the Excel file so I uploaded a pdf version. The thumbnail shows as black but the pdf should open properly when you click on it. Let me know if it doesn't work.
    Image Attached Thumbnails Film Editing Settings Form.pdf  

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  22. On a sidenote: Film9 settings windows will not show up in an rdp Session - Main window will show up. This makes it impossible to trigger a processing task from remote if you want to change the settings... Unfortunately...
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  23. I was also fighting with some bad quality scan with heavy noise. The noise was nicely removed (Chapeau!) but the color correction proved difficult. It is really hard to influence the darks and midtones with the color settings. Sometimes you just need to spread those color regions to get more details into the picture. In the end "Color Mill 2.1" for virtual dub came to the rescue which offers a very good RGB color correction for darks midtones and highlights (each with separate saturation), RGB gamma and much more. This is great. I read that this color control can be used also by avisynth - in this case it would be awesome to have it in film9. It offers much more granular control over color than the settings implemented to date.
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