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  1. Member
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    On many forums, we find the same people. There is :
    - Those who are jealous because they can not do better
    - Those who are incompetent and do not know how to use a computer
    - Those who want to impose their conception
    - And those who are evil, intolerant, incorrect, etc ...

    And then there are those who are very knowledgeable and therefore satisfied. These are discrete, in general, because why come on a forum when everything works.
    FILM9 is broadcast in over 50 countries today. And returns are encouraging.

    And finally, there are very decent people, very polite and asking questions courteously. They want to know more.
    And we answer them with the same kindness, the same sympathy.

    I can on this forum that always repeat the same words:
    - Film9 installs NOTHING without asking you before.
    - No Malware, No Virus...

    To not come to insults, I think the intervention of a moderator on this forum should be necessary.
    Everyone can have their opinion ... keeping respect for the work of others.

    The world is like. To each form an opinion!
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  2. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Gelinox View Post
    And then there are those who are very knowledgeable
    ... and this is precisely why we're NOT satisfied.

    Originally Posted by Gelinox View Post
    To not come to insults, I think the intervention of a moderator on this forum should be necessary.
    "Mommy, he doesn't agree with me! Punish him!"

    Thankfully, Baldrick and redwudz aren't as thin-skinned, and will not censor posts because you want them to.

    Furthermore, you either lie or fail to comprehend what FILM9 is even doing. I'm guessing the latter.

    This "software" is dangerous in its behavior, by silently changing settings and messing with system codecs. Nobody should use it. Seriously video hobbyists and professionals should especially avoid it.
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    Reading these defamatory and rude, I asked for the intervention of a moderator.
    I prefer that than lose my temper and meet other insults.
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    Ok, trade is more "friendly" like this ...thanks

    This "software" is dangerous in its behavior, by silently changing settings and messing with system codecs. Nobody should use it. Seriously video hobbyists and professionals should especially avoid it.
    It's too late ... professionals already use application.
    And a TV show used to treat his classic films.

    Following our discussions, a caring person sent me this link
    I do not know this gentleman, he speaks Spanish, but it does not look too unhappy of Film9. Even in Spanish, it is still a good demonstration of the possibilities.

    But no one is forced to take an interest in our software. Who is not perfect either.
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  5. I could see the link:


    ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9wlD3Vsd-k ( posted by user: XarquS)


    And all the videos posted by user XarquS are disabled for comments.


    Comments are disabled for this video

    ---> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMeO-hDTxzAE9MMA5mgJ8KA
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  6. Member
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    I see this, it is a choice of the author to all of these videos.
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  7. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Gelinox View Post
    It's too late ... professionals already use application.
    And a TV show used to treat his classic films.
    Following our discussions, a caring person sent me this link
    I do not know this gentleman, he speaks Spanish, but it does not look too unhappy of Film9. Even in Spanish, it is still a good demonstration of the possibilities.
    The clips looks awful -- both the before and after. The after ADDED artifacts.
    - It has chroma offset that was never fixed,
    - It was deinterlaced source, and was terribly after the oversharpen. Aliasing run amuck!
    - ^ There are others, but those are so ruinous as to make others moot.

    It's an extremely amateur effort, and something I could have done 15 years ago in pure TMPGenc Plus.

    - Professional? No, I don't think so.
    - Don't believe me? VH has many other actual professionals, as well as several serious hobbyists with decades of experience. Find one, ask for his input on this thread.

    To even suggest FILM9 is based off the Avisynth efforts of johnmeyer and videofred, with this as a "proof", is insulting to both gentlemen.

    That "classic film" in the Youtube example was clearly somebody's old crappy home video. It's probably wise to have comments disabled. Most Youtube video-savvy users would have pointed out these flaws long ago. This constant attempt by FILM9 devs/fanboys to silence criticism is very telling (and for the birds).

    You're in the wrong forum to BS users. Just ask nakedgeek -- a guy that was handed his ass (by me, personally) about 10 years ago, by making wildly false claims. And that's precisely what you're doing. There have been others, and there will surely be more.

    These are professional tools: http://vegasaur.com/Mercalli and https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve
    But even VirtualDub and Avisynth can be leverage by pros and amateurs alike.
    FILM9 is about as quality as a Chinaware AIO (Chinese-made all-in-one, mostly user stolen freeware), maybe even less so.

    I never wish to disparage video-savvy programmers that can advance the tools of our trade. That means working with, and listening to, those of us in the field. I've offered an incredible amount of support to such devs in the past 15-20 years, and will continue to do so. You, however, are just an argumentative ass, hence my public denouncing of this clown-show of an app.
    Last edited by lordsmurf; 17th Aug 2016 at 18:53.
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  8. Member goodiesguy's Avatar
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    My personal opinion is that this app is OK. It's a bit of a pain, but it does everything I could ask it to do. It's not likely anyone will make Vdub plugins to replace these features, so i'm gonna stick with this for now.
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  9. Member
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    goodiesguy

    Thank you for giving your opinion.


    lordsmurf

    Small details ...
    - When I mention that professionals use Film9, he was not the author of the clip.
    - Comments are disabled for twenty published tutorials, not only for Film9.
    - The clip was mentioned that the people on this forum can get an idea of the possibilities of Film9, not to pass quality control.

    Lordsmurf, my goal is not to make you love our software ... it's your opinion, I respect it.

    I'm just a little surprised at the harshness of your words when I look at the effectiveness of your work HERE ... reading you I expected much better.
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  10. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Gelinox View Post
    when I look at the effectiveness of your work HERE ... reading you I expected much better.
    You can't take an old VHS tape and make it flawless HD.

    What I've done in that sample is excellent. Trying to push filtering harder results in too many artifacts. That sample is actually excised from a larger piece, as even then full-video filtering was too harsh. The cut scenes will need detailed per-scene work. Cost and time also plays a hand, and further scripting to remove specific remaining tape errors simply is not worth the effort. My output is vastly better than the source.

    From what I've seen of your samples, and praise of others, you don't seem to mind FILM9-made artifacts.

    @goodiesguy: Most of these "features" (sliders) are available in AvsPmod.

    @Gelinox:

    I'll concede this: It's a very basic tool for film only (terrible with tapes). But it has the amateur interface of vReveal, and it's far too easy to screw something up -- as seen in all samples that I've seen to date. "Hey look, I can now restore video!" (says the newbie, who reminds me of the kid that uses every font when learning how to use Word). I get it, it's a free tool for non-experienced users.

    But you need to be prepared for its many shortcomings to be pointed out by serious hobbyists and pros. You're in a forum full of non-novices. Several of us have a vested interest in furthering the advancement of restoration. I was the one that founded this VH sub-forum 10 years ago! If you just blow us off, we're going to (a) leave or (b) get pissed.

    And you need to work on the install process, and quit being deceptive about how much it screws with existing codecs and VirtualDub. We're reporting this flaw. You need to quit arguing this, and figure out why it's happening. I saw it, others have seen it. You have a serious software flaw. Fix it.

    My "harsh words" can quickly to to praise if you'd just listen to people. Your project has potential.
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    I appreciate the words "a bit more friendly" for your answer.
    It is not yet buddy and we will not even make a chug together tomorrow, but it's better.

    It's no secret, I do not speak English well enough to translate my words really my thought. If my interventions are too invasive, I apologize.
    Gilles and I have never said that we have a working pro ... Film9 remains an amateur job.

    Why not make available your original clip to see what Film9 could restore?

    Contrary to what you think we want to learn.
    You can enjoy your advice to improve this software.
    Again, the goal is really not "invade the market."

    If our exchanges tired everyone, we could do it like this in PM

    It's up to you…
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  12. Member goodiesguy's Avatar
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    Is there any way in this software, or another plugin, to stop the slight jitter of film? old kinescopes always seem to have an ever so slight jitter to them, they never stay still like something from a VT source.
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  13. Originally Posted by goodiesguy View Post
    Is there any way in this software, or another plugin, to stop the slight jitter of film? old kinescopes always seem to have an ever so slight jitter to them, they never stay still like something from a VT source.
    Any image stabilization program will do the trick. The VideoFred scripts over in doom9.org use depanstabilize.
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    Is there any way in this software, or another plugin, to stop the slight jitter of film? old kinescopes always seem to have an ever so slight jitter to them, they never stay still like something from a VT source.

    In the stabilizing component, you have three levels of settings, either horizontal or vertical that allow you to limite/eliminate the slight jitter of your films.
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  15. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    VirtualDub is terrible at stabilizing.
    Avisynth is limited.
    Something like Mercalli is often needed.

    Post a sample.
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  16. Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    VirtualDub is terrible at stabilizing.
    Avisynth is limited.
    Something like Mercalli is often needed.
    As someone who has written extensively about Deshaker:

    A Guide to Using DeShaker -- By John Meyer

    And written a very extensive suite of VirtualDub, AVISynth, and Vegas script to batch stabilized edited clips:

    Vegas VirtualDub Deshaker Script

    And used Depanstabilize for the specific problem goodiesguy asked about:

    Film Restoration Script

    I completely disagree with what you have said. Yes, Mercalli's latest: Mercalli Version 4 Standalone can do things that no other stabilizer can do, especially when dealing with CMOS sensor "jello" artifacts. However, the edge fill capabilities of the old Deshaker often do a better job, and the edge fill capabilities of Depanstabilize are plenty good enough to handle film gate weave (that's the correct term for what goodiesguy is asking about).

    Gunnar Thalin (the Deshaker author) actually made modifications to Deshaker over a decade ago in response to a request from one user who wanted to remove film gate weave. You do have to use settings other than the defaults.

    The film restoration script developed by VideoFred, which I took in my own direction and which is linked to above, uses Depanstabilize. It works brilliantly for this particular problem. I have stabilized hundreds of hours of movie transfers that I have done with my transfer equipment. For many scenes it is actually the thing that makes the biggest difference between the raw film transfer and the finished product.

    So, if you need to stabilize some GoPro footage that you took on your latest mountain biking trip, then Mercalli is almost certainly your best choice. For this particular problem, however, it is actually the last program I would use and, as it turns out, it often doesn't do as good a job as the other two stabilizers I mentioned.
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  17. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    I know, we disagree on VirtualDub's ability.

    I know you've written on it extensively. And you've gotten every ounce from it.
    I just find it weak.
    It's never done what I need.

    You were the one that turned me on to Mercalli last year. Best purchase ever.
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    VirtualDub is terrible at stabilizing.
    Avisynth is limited.
    Something like Mercalli is often needed.
    VirtualDub has its own applications and particularly a good stabilizer which requires 2 Passes. Read John !
    VideoFred advised "DepanStabilize" for Avisynth and we trusted Freddy and John for their expertise.
    We know Mercalli, but do you use it with Avisynth and VirtualDub ?
    Why compare unusable tools for FILM9 ? Do not mix the applications.
    FILM9 uses Avisynth plugins, that's all.
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  19. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GillesH View Post
    Why compare unusable tools for FILM9 ? Do not mix the applications.
    FILM9 uses Avisynth plugins, that's all.
    That was sort of the point of my post.
    There are better stabilize methods (referring to Avisynth, not FILM9).
    Depanstabilize is indeed good, but can just as easily screw up footage if done wrong.
    To all trying to use it: Be careful!

    If you want to incorporate it into FILM9, proceed with care. Most of your other filters have been overboard (as shown in samples in this thread), but that one can totally screw up footage if done even slightly too much.
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  20. Hello.
    I had problem after install Film9.
    The problem is "Film9 has stopped working"

    ...just like this:
    Name:  9.jpg
Views: 2433
Size:  20.1 KB

    I installed film9 in win7 64bit in a clean and just formatted system and Film9 was the first program that I installed
    after the Net.Framework 4.6.

    I SOLVED doing this ( so I confirm that this is the solution):

    - Uninstall Film9
    - Delete Folder "C: Program Files (86) \ Film9 \ ...." ( if it is still there...)
    - Delete Folder "C: \ Users \ Your session \ AppData \ Local \ Film9V2 \ ..."

    - Reinstall Film9 with the default choice IN FRENCH LANGUAGE.


    after, you can change the language and all works good.
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    I SOLVED doing this ( so I confirm that this is the solution):

    - Uninstall Film9
    - Delete Folder "C: Program Files (86) \ Film9 \ ...." ( if it is still there...)
    - Delete Folder "C: \ Users \ Your session \ AppData \ Local \ Film9V2 \ ..."

    - Reinstall Film9 with the default choice IN FRENCH LANGUAGE.


    after, you can change the language and all works good.
    Thank you Clickshe for your perfect description.
    I'll find the problem...
    Last edited by Gelinox; 14th Sep 2016 at 07:16.
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    A new update is available Film9 (2.03). It fixes several bugs including the re-installation in English.
    The list of these fixes is available in the application directory.

    - A DUPLICATE function has been added in the interpolator.
    As has often been discussed on the forum, the Interpolators are not flawless.
    And especially on fast-moving sequences. Artifacts are visible.
    To try to get around this, we added a function of image duplication.
    With this method, there are more artifacts, but against the judder effect can be felt.
    Nothing is perfect .....
    To limit this effect of jerks, it was added to the Duplicate function, Mixing function (which is optional).
    Mixing This function will interpolate just ONE picture after the duplicated image. It's a balance between pure and simple interpolation Duplication.
    After that it is for everyone to find the formula.

    A tip for those who have some time to treatment with interpolation (for Audio and Sound). This gives, after all, a fluidity to the majority of plans.
    Then make another treatment (with the same settings) but Duplication.
    And in the final, in your NLE, simply superimpose the two clips and select Duplicate on the track, the sequences that have artifacts on the interpolation track.
    Warning: Duplicate processing is slower than the interpolation processing.

    - A resizing function Clips Non-Standard
    There are more and more users that use sensors or cameras called "professional" and, especially, with the ability to synchronize projector / camera.
    These cameras have, among others, the option of framing the image pixel. The downside is that the dimensions width / height are not in a video standard.
    This new feature will let resize, in a standard format that captures Non-Standard.
    Just simply choose its size in the Project window.

    For users who have encountered difficulties in installing Film9 two new tutorials are available on the www.film9.org sites, they detail the steps of the installation on Windows 7 and Windows 10.

    Here, again, we hope Gilles and me, these small changes will satisfy you.
    Thank you, anyway, to share your comments .....

    Good Test !
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  23. Thanks Gilles and Roland for the new version, and its great you fixed the HuffYUV Bug
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  24. excellent for my needs ...
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  25. SUGGESTION FOR UPDATES ON FILM9.
    I have been using FILM9 for some time now, and it serves my purpose very well. Actually, it does a much better job in restoring old films in the formats of 8mm, S8mm and 16mm, much better than most of the professional software I have been testing. There is, however, a couple of issues that could make a big improvement to FILM9, an hopefully they are not too difficult to implement.

    1: The Grain Reduction, which is a very important part FILM9, is not really doing a good job. I have tried many options, but the grainS are too visible in the results. The only result I have managed to get using the Grain Reduction tool in FILM9, is that the grain is still very visible, but now seem to "float in oil" instead of "floating in water". They are still there very much, but in stead of "moving arounD" at their normal speed, they now seem to move around in "slow motion". The picture does not get any "smoother" from the grain reduction process, and the grain is still there as before processing.

    Maybe I am not getting the settings right, so if any others have different experience, pls. advice how to get good results from the Grain Reduction tool. If it is not possible to get better results than the ones I described, then pls., you wisards of FILM9, find a good solution for the Grain Reduction tool, and implement it as soon as possible. It is really a very important part of FILM9, and it should be up to the same standards as the other FILM9 tools.

    2: The films to be restored thru FILM9 ALWAYS NEED A SCENE TO SCENE CORRECTION. One scene might need some colour correction, the second scene might need some brightness and contrast corrections, the third scene might need yet a different correction. As of now, it is not possible to do any scene to scene corrections in FILM9. I know there is a "TRIM" function, but on this one you can only set 1 in-point and 1 out-point. And thats it. What is needed is the possebility to set IN and OUT markers at EVERY
    scene change. That way I can set an IN-marker at the start of scene 1, adjust it, and then set an OUT-marker when scene 2 starts. Or meybe it would be better to call it a "CHANGE marker", and then adjust the settings for scene 2, put another CHANGE markerat the end of scene 2, and then adjust scene 3, and so forth, until the last scene.

    As of now, the trim-function makes the trimmed part grey. In a system with SCENE BY SCENE markers, the colours should change so we can see where one scene ends and the other starts. Scene 1 might then be red, scene 2 green, scene 3 red, scene 4 green and so on. That way it is easy to identify the scene changes, and each scene can have a separate and different correction, from the beginning to the end of the film.

    So, Gelinox, Sir, would it be possible to make FILM9 the perfect restoration\post-production software for narrow-gauge films, and hopefully do so in the very near future? I think, that with these improvements, the FILM9 would be THE restoration software, "The Ruler Of The Sky", in a class of its own. Looking forward to your thoughts on this. Thanks.
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  26. Originally Posted by Widescreen View Post
    1: The Grain Reduction, which is a very important part FILM9, is not really doing a good job.

    2: The films to be restored thru FILM9 ALWAYS NEED A SCENE TO SCENE CORRECTION.
    1. I suggest you try the AVISynth-based software developed by VideoFred.

    The power of Avisynth: restoring old 8mm films

    and

    Attachment(s) Capturing and restoring old 8mm films


    2. I suggest you don't do too much grain reduction. Any software you use is going to cause the remaining grain to "line up" and you are going to get that "slow motion gooey" look which calls attention to itself.

    Remember, "less is more" is the mantra when doing film restoration.

    As for scene-to-scene corrections, you should do these in your NLE before applying the script. There are just way too many variations in a typical 400' reel of amateur film (which consists of eight original 50' reels) for any automatic corrections to work reliably. Often the flim base is different (e.g., Ektachrome mixed with Kodachrome); some is faded; exposure is all over the place; some is shakey and some is not; etc. As you move from scene to scene, almost all of these things are changing, and those changes interact, making automatic correction virtually impossible, if you are trying to achieve top-notch results.

    If you visit doom9.org, you will find that StainlessS has developed some pretty amazing automatic color correction aimed at film corrections:

    GamMac v1.02 - 17 July 2016

    I haven't yet had the chance to incorporate it into my version of VideoFred's scripts (which I've posted in those first two links above), but plan to do so.
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  27. Thank you Sir, for the response to my "problems" with restoration of my old films.

    I have been looking at AviSynth, and until now, I do not understand how to work with that one. VideoFred has a tutorial on internet, and I am still waiting for part III, which will, as far as I understand, deal with how to use AviSynth. Unfortunately, I have not seen any Part III uploaded yet. (Allthough it might be a couple of weeks or so since last time I checked).

    But I don't have any high hopes I will be able to understand the scripting etc. I have no idea what that is all about, how to alter the settings in a line in which I have no idea, what is what, so using Film9, which is using both VideoFred's scripts an Virtual Dub, is the perfect tool for me. For me, learning the scripting and computer-language involved in this, will be just as hopeless as to tell me to take off, fly and then land an Airbus A-380 - and survive.

    I am scanning my films on a RetroScan Universal, and the "grain-reduction" tool built into the software for that scanner is not working well either. The only thing that happens when one activate that tool, is that the picture looses all sharpness. In the commercial for the RetroScan Universal, there are some samples in that video, showing grain reduction by using "Neat Video", and that one, at least sort of "get rid of the film-grain". But again, the short videclip there does not look like film any more. It looks way too much plastic. But somewhere, in the middle between the Film9 grain reduction and the Neat Video grain reduction, there must be some solutions ????

    The films I am often working with, is amateur films, but NOT what we call "family-films". Family films are exactly how you describe in your post. Yes, I know. I have been transferring 8 and 16mm films since 1983, starting with multiplexers and 3-tube JVC cameras, thru Elmo Transvideo-machines, then Tobin TVT-machines, and now the RetroScan Universal. Just check out www.movingimages.no Unfortunately the web-site is, as of now, in Norwegian only. I am working on an English version, but I dont think it will be fully translated into English before early next year, like January/February 2017. I am still transferring family-films, but more often than before, I am now receiving more "serious" amateur-films, intended for a wider audience.

    These films differs from the ordinary "family films", by having more even exposure, better colour etc. BUT STILL THEY NEED THAT EXTRA TOUCH THAT MAKES THEM STAND OUT. VideoFred's scripts gives stunning results, but I will never be able to learn how to work with them. But I do know how to correct colours, contrast, brightness etc .etc., thru buttons and sliders. That I have been doing since very early 1980s, and if a better "grain-reduction" tool could be bult into the Film9 software, that would be the tool I need.

    These films (and most of the family-films) will not be edited by me. The serious films are already edited, and family-films, I don't really want to edit, because if I use a tecnical standard for my editing of these films, most of what is there will be below that standard. Editing of family-films must, in my opinion, be done by the "director" of the movie himself, as there are other factors to guide the editing of family-films, which only the persons/family involved, can evaluate. Technical standards are probably not an issue at all in these films.

    I really want to be able to use only one piece of software, Film9, and if the "MARKER-system" I suggest in my previous posting is implemented, then Film9 will be a complete system that probably will satisfy most people in need of a narrow-gauge film restauration tool. And these tools can be improved from time to time.
    Last edited by Widescreen; 22nd Nov 2016 at 18:41.
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  28. Well, if you can't use AVISynth, then the Film9 people will have to respond.

    My only remaining piece of advice is to perhaps forget about reducing grain because, after all, grain is part of the "film experience" and is not a defect, in any usual sense of that word. Instead, concentrate on other things that will, in my opinion, make a much bigger difference in the viewer's enjoyment of your film transfer.

    As an example, if you take a look at this "before/after" clip from some 16mm film I did last winter, decide for yourself if grain reduction (which I did do) is really that important compared to dirt removal and motion stabilization. Also look at the color correction (on some clips) and detail enhancement (via some very selective sharpening). If you see these clips the same way I do, grain reduction is at the very bottom of the list of what makes the "after" more watchable:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBAHzO7rJS0
    Last edited by johnmeyer; 22nd Nov 2016 at 19:05. Reason: typo
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    Hello Widescreen,
    Thanks for your comments about FILM9. We appreciate that you are "almost" satisfied.

    But I agree with John's opinion about the Degrain.
    To preserve the authenticity of the old images, do not make the image too smooth.
    That being said, the current settings pushed to the maximum (triple action + slider max) must be sufficient.
    And you can also adjust with the Sharpness settings

    Some users even asked for a function to add grain. What has been done in this version 2 of FILM9.
    In the case of too smooth image and this can happen with VHS movies or equivalent, the addition of grain restores tone to the images.

    Regarding sequence-by-sequence processing, there too John is right.
    With this type of Avisynth process, it would be too complicated to implement it.
    The NLE is the solution Before and After FILM9.

    And Thank You, again.
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  30. Member goodiesguy's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=johnmeyer;2457101]
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post

    I completely disagree with what you have said. Yes, Mercalli's latest: Mercalli Version 4 Standalone can do things that no other stabilizer can do, especially when dealing with CMOS sensor "jello" artifacts. However, the edge fill capabilities of the old Deshaker often do a better job, and the edge fill capabilities of Depanstabilize are plenty good enough to handle film gate weave (that's the correct term for what goodiesguy is asking about).

    Gunnar Thalin (the Deshaker author) actually made modifications to Deshaker over a decade ago in response to a request from one user who wanted to remove film gate weave. You do have to use settings other than the defaults.

    The film restoration script developed by VideoFred, which I took in my own direction and which is linked to above, uses Depanstabilize. It works brilliantly for this particular problem. I have stabilized hundreds of hours of movie transfers that I have done with my transfer equipment. For many scenes it is actually the thing that makes the biggest difference between the raw film transfer and the finished product.
    But how do I use it. I've put it in AvsPMod but I get errors saying it can't find the .dll, and I don't want the dirt removal etc, I just want to remove film gate weave, that's all.
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