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I'm using Handbrake, and would like to know of the best way to encode this DVD I have;
It's a recent release of a 2003 anime, from what I could see from some tests this anime is 23.976 fps, but the opening was 'localized' a bit and some parts use 29.97 fps, so this would mean I use 'same as source' and variable framerate to encode, right?
Except the disc is hard telecined so I enabled the detelecine filter in HB but the parts in the opening I mentioned still have combing artifacts, so I figured why not use the decomb filter as well? So I did and it worked.
What I want to know is am I missing something? Or can I cut down on some settings? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
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Last edited by xAlienxx; 14th Dec 2014 at 15:50.
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Wrong. DVD is 29.976 NTSC/25fps PAL, interlaced or telecined. Always. There's no such thing as "23.976" or variable frame rate DVD or SD-BluRay/AVCHD, so I'd suppose that those formats aren't what you want for final output. You likely have a hard-telecined movie with interlaced media mixed in.Originally Posted by xAlienxx
Probably not. You applied a decomb to the entire video when only the opening titles needed it?Originally Posted by xAlienxx
No one here has seen any part of the unprocessed original, so one can only guess about what you're dealing with.Originally Posted by xAlienxx
- My sister Ann's brother -
The easiest way for you to address the mixed frame rates (of the original source) is to bob deinterlace the video and encode at 59.94 fps (NTSC). Or you could leave the video interlaced and use the "tff" or "bff" flag (whichever is right for the source) in the Extra Options box on the Video tab.
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Hope I didn't come off as a total newb, this show is definitely 23.976 fps, I have the undubbed version(not a DVD) which is using the same framerate. I encoded a bunch of tests and segments in the opening are too jerky after detelecining and setting to 23.97 the actual content isn't. The output with the described settings gave me a file that shows as 26.87 fps in VLC but playback in the target device worked acceptably well anyway.Originally Posted by LMotlow
Well whatever, I'll just post some samples here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/g6pk5ohno2uso82/AAAYh7_RDvxmFo5nApH9YFaLa?dl=0
If you see the opening one in the two detelecined samples you still get combing on what I think is every frame.
Noted, however the last time I used 59.94 the player I use freaked out a bit; it played really fast and then really slow iirc.Originally Posted by jagabo
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Every sample you posted has been reprocessed and re-encoded to a another format with Handbrake. All bets are off. We thought from your post #1 that you were working with a "DVD". You didn't say you were working with someone's butchered mkv version of a movie that you received somehow.
Last edited by LMotlow; 15th Dec 2014 at 03:02.
- My sister Ann's brother -
Yes, those are useless. Even the ones labeled as not filtered have been resized, and resizing is a filter, too. And the resizing prevents us (me, anyway) from being able to tell what's going on in the opening segment. The main body of the episode does seem to be hard telecine. Please upload a couple of samples direct from the DVD. Actually one will do, one from the opening segment you say is real 29.97fps. If you don't know how to make them, just ask.
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Manono's right, we need his suggested samples from the DVD original. You can cut unprocessed samples from MPEG or VOB using the free DGIndex utility. A former member posted a nifty tuitorial a while back: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/359295-Record-without-interlacing?p=2272359&viewful...=1#post2272359
One of those things that takes longer to describe than to do it.- My sister Ann's brother -
Even from the processed samples it's obvious the body of the series is 24p and the titles are 30i. Though, be careful. It's not uncommon for animated content to switch between 24p and 30i when effects are added after a hard telecine.
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/m62a76uoohiqto9/ZB-89_op.m2v?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d362kj41onljx05/ZB-89.m2v?dl=0
I do know resizing filters the image, otherwise the columns would not be correctly aligned, I only meant I wasn't applying de- filters. -
The body looks like straight 3:2 pulldown. The intro is 30i but it has missing and blended fields. What a mess!
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Yep, that intro's a mess. Frankly I'm no good at blended frames, but I did hit it with yadif and srestore to get 25fps with dupes removed-- but still with some blends. Missing frames, too, looks like several at a pop sometimes.
I have some TV recordings originating from Australia and imported for NTSC. They have odd interlacing of 3 frames at a time, pretty odd. QTGMC and srestore straightened it out. But the broadcast station has a logo at the start showing various scenery from the local area. Okay, I don't need those intros, right? But they look nice and I just want 'em there. They're straight interlaced video, 29.97fps. I just keep 'em as -is, and keep them separate. I encode the 23.976 program part with 3:2 pulldown. When I author for DVD I just append that 29.97 intro to the 29.97 episode, and it works just fine because the authoring program sees both segments as 29.97 interlaced. Works every time.
But how to clean up this particular intro for app0ending later? Be interesting to see it done.
Anyway, I thought I'd mention: the DVD itself isn't variable frame rate. It plays at 29.97, whether with screwball structure for the intro to get it to 29.97, and the rest using simple pulldown.
[EDIT] playing with it, the intro looks like 23.976fps or maybe 24fps that used pulldown to get it up to 25fps, then interlaced. Or maybe the same thing in reverse, interlaced and then pulldown applied. Seems like going about it the hard way. Awaiting results.Last edited by LMotlow; 15th Dec 2014 at 11:25.
- My sister Ann's brother -
No, there are at least 44 unique frames per second in the intro. There were more but they only appear as blends in the fields. Then there's the missing frames...Originally Posted by LMotlow
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44 hmmm. Okay, I'll take your word for it (I didn't count). You know better than I, because I'm still trying to figure out what the maker started with, and then what the hell they did with it. What really doesn't make sense (to me) is those missing frames.
- My sister Ann's brother -
Originally Posted by jagabo
It turns out not to have been so obvious. Which is exactly why I said I couldn't tell from the earlier samples what was going on in the opening segment. I spotted what looked to be interlacing with blending all over the place.Originally Posted by jagabo
Since there are already missing frames and frames combined into blended fields, I see no reason not to unblend it and bring the whole thing back to 23.976fps. It plays reasonably smoothly and removes most of the blending:
Yadif(Mode=1)
SRestore(frate=29.97)
Tdecimate(Cycle=15,CycleR=3)
There are still the missing frames but otherwise not so bad, and better, in my opinion, than just bobbing to 59.94fps or what encoding at variable framerate keeping that part at 29.97fps will produce. And you get the added benefit of better compression. Of course, this isn't anything one can do in Handbrake. But then, anyone serious about working with anime should be using AviSynth to begin with.Last edited by manono; 15th Dec 2014 at 17:53.
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Thanks for the input. I had yadif and srestore right off (maybe I'm getting a little better at this stuff from tracking your posts?), but I got the cycle and cycleR wrong. Worked tolerably well here. Thanks again.
- My sister Ann's brother -
Thanks for the help guys, I don't jump into complicated things if I can avoid them and in this case it's just unnecessary to me. I'm only doing this for a few episodes anyway.
Interestingly enough I was comparing the episode to the original version and found that same segment appears in the ending. So I guess at some point it was 23.976 fps and the censor people decided to make use of it. You'll notice that it is much slower and of course animated so I think that explains the missing frames.
http://youtu.be/nCydVyKVDec?t=28s -
That one is from a PAL 25fps source. It has a duplicate frame every second so it probably was from a 24fps source before being converted for PAL.Originally Posted by xAlienxx
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