another stab at converting DV AVI

[njitgrad]

I have been down this path many times but never followed through completely because I always achieved mediocre results. I am hoping that in the last couple of years new encoders have come into existence that would simplify what I am trying to achieve. All I want is to be able to (easily and affordably) convert my old DV AVI files that have been sitting on my PCs hard drive forever (and backed up as "data" on DVDs of course) into a format that I can play from an external hard drive connected to any of the five Samsung HDTVs in my house. I've tried many encoders over the years and they were either too costly, too complicated to figure out, produced poor results, or any combination of these.

[filmboss80]

Yeah, I don't see DV-AVI listed on Samsung's supported formats for their built-in media player. Your best bet is MPEG2, because it handles interlaced video very well, and you can keep the PCM audio without re-encoding. Just make sure you choose Bottom Field First (or Lower Field First) in your field order settings. If you have enough hard drive space (and who doesn't these days?) go with a bitrate around 8000 Kbps (giving room for PCM audio), and you should have satisfactory results.

If you prefer to go with a codec like h.264 or xvid, you'd better get up to speed on deinterlacing. (This is why I'm suggesting MPEG2. It may take up more disc storage space, but it is much friendlier with DV-AVI sources.)

As for encoders, you can't go wrong with HCEnc, but if that is too complicated, check out a few other encoding tools in the software section of this site.

[LMotlow]

Yeah, I don't see DV-AVI listed on Samsung's supported formats for their built-in media player. Your best bet is MPEG2, because it handles interlaced video very well, and you can keep the PCM audio without re-encoding. Just make sure you choose Bottom Field First (or Lower Field First) in your field order settings. If you have enough hard drive space (and who doesn't these days?) go with a bitrate around 8000 Kbps (giving room for PCM audio), and you should have satisfactory results.

True. MPEG/DVD is playable anywhere. DV audio is 44KHz, but MPEG and just about everything else is 48KHz. PCM is OK, but since you have to resample and re-encode anyway, go with Dolby AC3.

If you prefer to go with a codec like h.264 or xvid, you'd better get up to speed on deinterlacing. (This is why I'm suggesting MPEG2. It may take up more disc storage space, but it is much friendlier with DV-AVI sources.)

h264l formats like standard-def BLuRay/AVCHD etc. are interlaced except 720p. Not every device can play oddball h264 formats or xvid (I still don't know why people use xvid).

[Hoser Rob]

You need to find out exactly which video formats your TVs accept. Not the file extension like .avi, which is just a container. Unfortunately many manufacturers' documentation is unclear on this. But many will say "divx" which would mean divx or xvid video and mp3 audio, for example.

It may in fact be impossible to create one video file that will play on all 5 TVs if they don't all support the same format.

I wouldn't worry about encoders being too expensive. I don't know of any encoders that cost money that are any better than free alternatives. In fact a big dirty secret in IT is that those type of paid encoders are usually just a GUI front end for free open source encoders. And the way they make them easier is to not give you most of the encoder features in the GUI. That of course is usually how you make things easier to use with software, and it's probably why your encodes have been crappy quality if you use those paid programs.

Unfortunately video encoding is complicated. It wasn't meant for people like us to back up our DVDs. Those are pro standards. And the other issue is that there are no ideal for any video settings that you can just plug in. The best settings differ from video to video.

There are some excellent encoders you'll often see recommended here by very knowledgeable video geeks. But they're too difficult for people who aren't video geeks. I don't use them myself, but there's a limit to how much I want to be a video geek ... I'm more an audio geek.

I've found the encoders which have the best compromise between ease of use and power are avidemux and handbrake. There's also vidcoder, which is handbrake with a different GUI that some prefer. I like handbrake better myself, which is good because as of a week ago I'm strictly a linux user and handbrake is available for linux unlike vidcoder.

So I'd recommend avidemux and handbrake, and you should read their documentation, which is excellent. Many paid programs don't have docs nearly as good as theirs.

[jagabo]

Try using handbrake MP4 or M4V, with h.264 and aac. Do not deinterlace or crop. Encode interlaced -- which isn't directly supported by Handbrake, you have to enter bff in the x264 Extra Options box.

[_Al_]

not sure if you tried dv avi helper, I updated it a bit,
you can batch create mp4 (interlace or progressive), create DVD's, ISO's or make them in batch,..., there is this Avisynth and Cedocida DV codec needed,
the trick is, if Avisynth and Cedocida is going to work on your PC, and after you take your time to set up settings.BAT, you are good to go for drag&drop encodings, even batch encodings, it becomes as simple as it could be ... or you can always ask here if there is trouble to make it work, I could tell you if there is simple fix or better forget about this, use handbrake etc.
no parenthesis or weird characters in filename paths or names, space character is ok ...

[filmboss80]

DV audio is 44KHz, but MPEG and just about everything else is 48KHz. PCM is OK, but since you have to resample and re-encode anyway, go with Dolby AC3.

Where did you get that bit of misinformation about DV audio? DV AVI comes in two forms: 16-bit Linear PCM stereo at 48 kHz sampling rate (768 kbit/s per channel, 1.5 Mbit/s stereo), or four nonlinear 12-bit PCM channels at 32 kHz sampling rate (384 kbit/s per channel, 1.5 MBit/s for four channels). Although the DV specification CAN support 16-bit audio at 44.1 kHz, the 48 kHz stereo mode is the default recording mode in most DV recording devices.

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/SupportOwnersFAQPopup.do?faq_id=FAQ00047282&fm_seq=51097

[LMotlow]

True, lots of DV captures are 48KHz. If you've never seen a 44KHz DV, you should get out more and visit more forums. If the O.P.'s audio is already the correct sampling rate, he's ready to go.

[filmboss80]

True, lots of DV captures are 48KHz. If you've never seen a 44KHz DV, you should get out more and visit more forums. If the O.P.'s audio is already the correct sampling rate, he's ready to go.

Forums? How about years of real world experience. You don't seem to realize that 44KHz is NOT DV spec. Name one single DV camcorder or recording deck that records native audio in 44KHz. Certainly, you can screw around with the encoding settings in post, but let's not assume the OP did something so ill-advised.

[LMotlow]

Pardon me, filmboss80. I -- I'm so sorry, sir. Really.

How many years, did you say?

Jesus H. Mahogany Christ. This place is getting worse than a cheap Cicero, illinois bar.

Re-read the original post. 5 Samsuing TV's and he can't find a page in the user guide that tells him what formats his 5 TVs can play? I recall a similar style of post where the user claimed he had DV-AVI and it turned out to be DivX. Judging from the info given in the original post, I think you might need your years of experience to do a little leading by the hand for someone who tried a whole bunch of encoders but couldn't figure out how to use any of them? This kind of forum works a little better if people kind of spell things out with a little detail, which the o.p. didn't do. So I would expect the unexpected. Wouldn't you?

[_Al_]

I'd ask question in reverse, what player or TV actually can play TV. I do not thing there is some. Players use chipsets that cannot handle DV codec, Tv's I do not know, but unless it is powered by some android or with any OS in there where you can install an app, player, perhaps it would not play DV at all. That is perhaps a direction where it is heading, TV's or some boxes that connects to TV panels with some software with some room for apps.

[njitgrad]

As for encoders, you can't go wrong with HCEnc, but if that is too complicated, check out a few other encoding tools in the software section of this site.

HC doesn't accept my AVIs. It only wants to open files of type *.d2v or *.avs.

[poisondeathray]

double post

[poisondeathray]

You need to create an avisynth script. If source file is DVI-AVI, all you need is a one-liner. You can write it in notepad, change the extension from .txt to .avs

AVISource("PATH\video.avi")

"PATH" would be the actual path, e.g. c:\folder

Or you can use other tools like avstodvd which can use hcenc as the encoder

[Cornucopia]

@filmboss80, I beg to differ: The DVCam & DVCPro specs (and the ITU 314 spec they are related to) define only 48kHz/16bit/2ch (strongly preferred) and 32kHz/12bit/2ch or 4ch. But the consumer miniDV spec (based on IEC61834) allows for 48kHz/16, 44.1kHz/16, and 32kHz/16 and 32kHz/12.

I believe mainly due to pressure for pro faction manufacturers (Sony, Panasonic, JVC, Canon), there was a shift away from 44.1kHz to 48kHz, even for consumer cameras (partly due to worries about 1:1 transfer of copyrighted musical material), however I can vouch for having to deal with quite a number of consumer miniDV cameras that could record at 44.1kHz back in the early days of DV (1997-2003), as I had a bitch of a time trying to do transfers of home video to DVD when people would bring in their miniDV tapes (sometimes still in the camera they were recorded in) which were inadvertently set to 44.1kHz, and I had to educate them.

I think LMotlow deserves a little credit.

Scott

[njitgrad]

Today I tried the latest version of Handbrake and almost got the result I've been looking for. The source file was a 2GB DV AVI file and the output file ended up being a 200MB MP4 file. The quality was fantastic and the audio was in perfect sync when played I the clip on my Samsung TV using a memory stick. The only problem I had was that any motion (camera pan, or subject movement) appeared a bit choppy. I used the Handbrake "Normal" MP4 Preset when I performed the conversion.

Any suggestions to improve the handling of motion in my output file?

On a related note, I repeated the experiment using an .mts file from my newer HD camcorder as the source and the resulting MP4 was not choppy at all.

[Cornucopia]

You don't say what your are ending up with, framerate-wise. But that will make a BIG difference.

If you:
1. Go from (assuming NTSC) 29.97i -> 59.94p, you have to interpolate the missing lines (to deinterlace), but your motion smoothness will be intact. You will need a higher bitrate, though, to maintain rough equivalent quality (though probably not 2x).
2. Go from 29.97i -> 29.97p, you might have more options for deinterlacing, but you will have cut your motion smoothness in half.
3. Continue with Interlaced in your output, you shouldn't be having any trouble, unless the player(s) that your are using aren't properly set up to support it.

And then there is complexity of encode vs. horsepower of the device, as well as bandwidth of the encode vs. bandwidth of the device, as well as possible background process overhead problems.

So, there are many more things to get detailed about and ruling out before fully troubleshooting this...

Scott

[njitgrad]

For Frame Rate, the NORMAL preset value is set to SAME AS SOURCE (with VARIABLE FRAME RATE radio button selected).

[jagabo]

For Frame Rate, the NORMAL preset value is set to SAME AS SOURCE (with VARIABLE FRAME RATE radio button selected).

Did you detelecine? If so, which method? Did you encode interlaced or progressive?

[Cornucopia]

You're asking for a world of hurt going for VFR...

Scott

[njitgrad]

You're asking for a world of hurt going for VFR...

Scott

I'm just going by whatever parameters come stock with Handbrake's "NORMAL" preset. Do you recommend I uncheck that and give it a whirl?

[njitgrad]

For Frame Rate, the NORMAL preset value is set to SAME AS SOURCE (with VARIABLE FRAME RATE radio button selected).

Did you detelecine? If so, which method? Did you encode interlaced or progressive?

No (but now that I just learned about it) it would appear that because I chose the Frame Rate as "SAME AS SOURCE" this should have been done automatically. Whether it used interlaced or progressive is a question I don't know the answer to.

Excerpt from Handbrake's website:
Simply leave the framerate set to "Same as source," and HandBrake will do variable framerate detelecine, dropping duplicate frames from the hard telecining process.

[_Al_]

Originally I was going to write that program encoding batch DVavi to mp4 (my link from above) using Handbrake. It would be much easier, that program has command line interface as well, no need of using avisynth and DV codec is not needed. But this VFR thing and no QTGMC, best double frame rate deinterlacer to get progressive video gave it a stop in that direction.

[jagabo]

Assuming your DV files are live recordings from a camcoder (not film based sources like you would get recording a movie off a cable box), try this in handbrake:

1) Select the preset you want to use. If you have a specific device in mind use that preset -- like Apple TV. Otherwise the Normal preset is ok for quick general purpose encodes. High Profile will give better results and will take longer to encode. Some older devices may have problems playing the file.

2) Select your DV file as the source. Select a name and destination for your output file. Use the MP4 container. Personally, I prefer MKV but it's not as widely supported.

3) On the Picture tab select Anamorphic Strict. Modules 16. Custom Cropping, 0,0,0,0.

4) On the Filters tab everything should be off.

5) On the video tab select Constant Framerate, Same As Source. Type bff into the Extra Options box. The default quality, RF 20 is probably adequate. Use lower values for higher quality (and larger files), higher values for lower quality (smaller files).

6) Press Start and wait for your video to encode.

The result is an interlaced encoding. Try playing the output video on your target devices. It should show smooth, flicker free motion with reasonably good picture quality

[njitgrad]

Assuming your DV files are live recordings from a camcoder (not film based sources like you would get recording a movie off a cable box), try this in handbrake:

1) Select the preset you want to use. If you have a specific device in mind use that preset -- like Apple TV. Otherwise the Normal preset is ok for quick general purpose encodes. High Profile will give better results and will take longer to encode. Some older devices may have problems playing the file.

2) Select your DV file as the source. Select a name and destination for your output file. Use the MP4 container. Personally, I prefer MKV but it's not as widely supported.

3) On the Picture tab select Anamorphic Strict. Modules 16. Custom Cropping, 0,0,0,0.

4) On the Filters tab everything should be off.

5) On the video tab select Constant Framerate, Same As Source. Type bff into the Extra Options box. The default quality, RF 20 is probably adequate. Use lower values for higher quality (and larger files), higher values for lower quality (smaller files).

6) Press Start and wait for your video to encode.

The result is an interlaced encoding. Try playing the output video on your target devices. It should show smooth, flicker free motion with reasonably good picture quality

OK, I will try this later. I was just home a short while ago and selected the the detelecine option (using "defaults" for the value rather than a custom number) and the resulting MP4 didn't look any different on playback. I then tried NORMAL preset again but output the file as MKV instead of MP4. It was still jumpy.