DVD Architect Studio 5 insists on re-compressing its own output

[ALF-TX]

I am in the process of creating a vacation Blu-ray. I use several tools to create the primary video streams (each of which is represented by an item on the main menu). Those tools are PowerShow Producer by photodex, Cyberlink PowerDirector 13. I took output from those and created project in DVD Architect Studio 5. No matter what I specified as output parameters, DVD-A insisted on re-compressing video and audio. That is one problem which makes me semi-crazy because of the processing time, but not the one I am concerned about. The specific case which is beyond irritating, is as follows :
I create a menu-oriented Blu-ray ISO using 3 video streams into DVD-A.
I later want to add two new streams (and menu items) to that project. I start a new project and insert the 0000.m2ts 0001.m2ts 0002.m2ts extracted from that ISO along with two new video streams.
The expected/hoped-for result would be that 0000 0001 and 0002 would not require re-compressing and the new video streams would require compressing (because of DVD-A failure to recognize that they are already Blu-ray compliant).
What happened is that DVD-A begins re-compressing ALL of the streams.
Am I stupid/naïve in what I expect to happen or is there something I am missing ?

[smrpix]

It is likely that your streams vary in some (possibly small) way from strict BR compliance.

A Mediainfo report or short sample might help.

[ALF-TX]

Thanks for reply.
If I understand you correctly, DVD-A originally re-encoded the first three streams because they were not BR compliant (in its opinion) and produced 0000.mt2s, 0001.m2ts and 0002.m2ts.
When these output files are later input to DVD-A as part of a new BR it still believes them to be non-BR compliant ?
If that is the case, DVD-A is even dumber than I already believe it to be.
Following is a Mediainfo report

[poisondeathray]

So DVDA refuses to eat it's own sh!t ... Sorry bad joke

DVDA Pro had this problem too, even with when rendering from vegas with "AVC Blu-ray" Templates . Go figure. Lots of unhappy people

MPEG2 Blu-ray was able to pass though



A potential problem I see is the field order as BFF. By convention, all HD should be TFF. Were original sources TFF? And DVDA changed it to BFF ?

[_Al_]

It could even be simple bitrate pattern, read here. Where some version gives error, some doesn't and simply insists to re-render file, kind of programmers fix , don't know ...

[ALF-TX]

Just to be clear, the attachment 01 Ketchikan.txt above is taken from 0000.m2ts from ISO produced by DVD-Architect Studio.
The attachment below x01 Ketchikan.txt is for the "original" video stream input to DVD-A

[poisondeathray]

This "original" has problems too, if mediainfo can be trusted (it's not always correct)

59.94 interlaced BFF ? Very odd combination

Where was this "original" from ? Proshow ? What was the original, original source ?

Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels

Frame rate : 59.940 fps
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Bottom Field First

Writing library : Photodex mpeg encoder

[poisondeathray]

It could even be simple bitrate pattern, read here. Where some version gives error, some doesn't and simply insists to re-render file, kind of programmers fix , don't know ...

But you would have expected DVDA to re-encode to whatever it though the proper bitrate was the first time since it "thinks" the stream isn't compliant.

Just like you would have expected pass through using a BLU RAY preset from vegas....

Maybe it was some disgruntled Sony Vegas/DVDA customers behind the recent Sony Pictures cyberattack / hack !!

[ALF-TX]

Yes, the x01 Ketchikan.m2ts was output from Proshow Producer. The input to Proshow was a set of jpeg slides and MTS files from Sony Rx100 camera.
I have attached a Mediainfo for one of those MTS files. The output options from Proshow do not seem to have the level of granularity needed to address the TFF / BFF issue.

[poisondeathray]

Does proshow allow 1080p59.94 progressive output? What if you change it to MPEG2 encoding, are there more options for TFF/BFF etc... ? IIRC, MPEG2 for BD passed through DVDA without all the issues that AVC for BD had

[_Al_]

Just like you would have expected pass through using a BLU RAY preset from vegas....

This could be very upsetting issue for someone. No data transfer between two programs that are being sold together. Unfortunately DVDA just simply would not "glue" GOP's together if needed. That no-recompress part might even be added much later in development of program and it simply does not always work ...
btw. there is a chance to load dmfs avi from Vegas into DVD Architect, so there is kind of solution regarding Vegas import (with Architect limits for encoding settings), something like Adobe uses, dynamic link, but this is no solution for op problem ... just mentioning this

[Cornucopia]

This may be an aside, but I've used DVDA quite a bit, and to get the re-encoding options right, one always has to go into the [Optimize Disc] menuitem, choose your clip, click the Video 1 (etc) tab, select Recompress and choose NO (it defaults to YES or REQUIRED).
"Required" means it must recompress because of incompatibilities or non-compliance, "Yes" forces it regardless. Yes is the default because DVDA expects to be able to fit things onto the disc based on the default video+audio bitrate settings (as set in Project Properties), and if you were to push the Fit-to-Disc button, it would re-evaluate all the assets and then if it found that you had given it material that made it over-budget, it would flip the "recompress" option back to YES.

Personally, I always do this MANUALLY/"No" for each asset in the disc's project asset list (both for audio and video), if possible, and then always calculate my own bitbudget separately ahead of time (using a pretty complex spreadsheet), so I NEVER have to "fit to disc", and it ONLY recompresses when things aren't compliant. For me, that should rarely happen, as I try to use strict encoding templates when prepping.

***************

Just checked a BD job that I pre-encoded both SD & HD assets using HCEnc & MeGUI / x264: The MPEG2 assets didn't need to be re-encoded, but the AVC assets were "required". It's likely that only Vegas->DVDA template-originated or Sony Do-Studio or Blu-Print encoded media will pass muster (NIH syndrome), so I'm not too surprised. Good thing is it barely lost any quality in the re-encode. BTW, IIRC, there are Blu-ray preset templates in Vegas and then there are Blu-ray (DVDA) preset templates (just like for DVD), and only the latter seem likely to pass muster.

Scott

[ALF-TX]

Does proshow allow 1080p59.94 progressive output? What if you change it to MPEG2 encoding, are there more options for TFF/BFF etc... ? IIRC, MPEG2 for BD passed through DVDA without all the issues that AVC for BD had

Options in Proshow Producer are too high level to implement your suggestions. In particular, I can specify 59.94 fps for 1080i with mpeg2 at 25 mbps with audio = lpcm 48khz 16 bit sample OR 24 fps for 1080p at 25mbps, same audio.

It truly is frustrating that the Blu-ray hardware is far more "accepting" than the software is. My PS3 and 2 different Sony BR players happily play almost anything I can publish via PowerDirector or ProShow to a "data disc".

I do appreciate all those who have commented.

[poisondeathray]

The reason I suggested 59.94 progressive, is that hopefully DVDA would make it interlaced properly TFF . 1080p59.94 isn't allowed for BD

1080i 59.94 is allowed if that 59.94 is FIELDS per second, not frame per second




@ Scott - x264 only work with progressive encoding for DVDA authoring. DVDA's muxer has problems with x264's MBAFF encoding

In the past, none of the Vegas AVC Blu-ray or DVDA presets worked for pass through. Always re-encoding. Only MPEG2 worked. It sounds very retarded but it's true. I assume they fixed that by now in DVDA6 and newer vegas versions

[Cornucopia]

@pdf, mine WAS progressive 720p59.94, so I don't think that was the problem. Also, I'm still using v5.2. They MAY have fixed things, IDK.

Scott

[poisondeathray]

@pdf, mine WAS progressive 720p59.94, so I don't think that was the problem. Also, I'm still using v5.2. They MAY have fixed things, IDK.

Scott

I was 99% sure that 720p59.94 worked with x264 and DVDA 5 for pass through , because it worked a long time ago, even before --bluray-compat

So I just tested it now with a more recent x264 build and confirm it works. MBAFF is a known issue, but progressive is known to work with DVDA , even from builds 3-4 years ago. Post your commandline




Re-importing DVDA to DVDA incompatibility - That's a new one I haven't heard of . It might have to do with the BFF, but one would have hoped it to be fixed the first time around . I will play around with it later and try to figure out what's happening

[Cornucopia]

Here's the MeGUI / x264 preset:

program --level 4.1 --bluray-compat --preset slow --tune grain --pass 2 --bitrate 19000 --stats ".stats" --open-gop --slices 4 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 40000 --output "output" "input"

...assuming the preset hasn't changed since.

And here's the MediaInfo report of the encoded data stream of the asset:

Video
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 4 frames
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 19.0 Mbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 40.0 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 280 pixels
Height                                   : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 59.940 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.344
Writing library                          : x264 core 142 r2431 ac76440
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:-2:-2 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=umh / subme=8 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.25 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=6,6 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-4 / threads=3 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / slices=4 / nr=0 / decimate=0 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=1 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=1 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=1 / weightp=1 / keyint=60 / keyint_min=1 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=19000 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.80 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=40000 / vbv_bufsize=30000 / nal_hrd=vbr / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.10 / aq=1:0.50
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Color range                              : Limited

And finally, here is how it appears on the burned BD:

Video
ID                                       : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 4 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=18
Codec ID                                 : 27
Duration                                 : 4mn 37s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 17.8 Mbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 35.0 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 280 pixels
Height                                   : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 59.940 fps
Standard                                 : NTSC
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.322
Stream size                              : 588 MiB (88%)
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Color range                              : Limited

But I don't want to sidetrack the quest to figure out the OP's problem(s)...

Scott

[poisondeathray]

The megui preset is missing --sar 1:1 . This was reported a long time ago (years). I think they fixed it in the development builds

I would explicitly add --keyint 60 , and --b-pyramid 0 (because some older BD players have problems with it)

If you still have problems you can PM me