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  1. Member
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    I occasionally like to capture (for my demo reel) commercials & promos I have worked on.
    My set-up:
    ADVC 100 (S-video IN)
    Macbook Pro
    iMovie6 HD

    With this simple set-up, I've never been able to figure out how to capture 16:9 video without letterboxing. Is it possible?
    I've played around with the output settings on iMovie, but always get some form of letterbox, pillarbox, stretching, etc.

    Is it more about how you set-up the INPUT (defining the session: DV, DV widescreen, 1080i, 720) or the OUTPUT?
    I am not so much concerned about HD quality as much as the 16:9 aspect ratio (if that makes a difference).

    Thanks!
    Last edited by MrRGB; 23rd Nov 2014 at 11:55.
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  2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCGYSodnYtk
    (That 2:00 tutorial is 1:45 longer than necessary.)

    Since your source is ADVC, choose DV widescreen.
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  3. I use a slighlty different way to capture 16:9 DV footage without letterboxing, using my ADVC50 (same as ADVC100 for this task).

    I'm in PAL land, so my captured DV footage is always 720x576. I prefer to work with square pixels, so I simply re-size my footage - using Virtualdub - to 1024x576 to give me a 'square pixel' 16x9 file, with no letterboxing.
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    Originally Posted by smrpix View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCGYSodnYtk
    (That 2:00 tutorial is 1:45 longer than necessary.)

    Since your source is ADVC, choose DV widescreen.
    I've tried this, and iMovie automatically pillar boxes the clip. See attached image. Is there a setting that fixes this for output?

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    Originally Posted by pippas View Post
    I use a slighlty different way to capture 16:9 DV footage without letterboxing, using my ADVC50 (same as ADVC100 for this task).

    I'm in PAL land, so my captured DV footage is always 720x576. I prefer to work with square pixels, so I simply re-size my footage - using Virtualdub - to 1024x576 to give me a 'square pixel' 16x9 file, with no letterboxing.
    Thanks! Do you know if there is a Mac equivalent to this software/app? Or am I just missing the simple math for re-sizing my footage?
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  6. Originally Posted by MrRGB View Post
    Thanks! Do you know if there is a Mac equivalent to this software/app? Or am I just missing the simple math for re-sizing my footage?
    No need to complicate things by resizing. 16:9 DV is 720x480 non-square pixels. iMovie has handled this kind of material fine for 20 years or so.
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    Originally Posted by smrpix View Post
    Originally Posted by MrRGB View Post
    Thanks! Do you know if there is a Mac equivalent to this software/app? Or am I just missing the simple math for re-sizing my footage?
    No need to complicate things by resizing. 16:9 DV is 720x480 non-square pixels. iMovie has handled this kind of material fine for 20 years or so.
    Sorry, I still don't know how to implement what you are saying. Outputting a Quicktime at 720x480 using either of the two choices in iMovie (16:9 or 4:3) gives me an unsqueezed or squeezed version which is still pillar/letterboxed.

    Am I missing a step somewhere? Is there a place where I need to choose between outputting square or non-square pixels? I'm guessing the process is straightforward, if anyone can tell me what I'm not doing correctly, I would greatly appreciated it!

    FYI: I'm drawing my signal directly from either a live or recorded broadcast from my DVR--if that needs to be considered….

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  8. The problem is that your source device is letterboxing the 16:9 source into a 4:3 DAR analog frame. You need to convince the device to output a 16:9 DAR analog frame.
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  9. Member DB83's Avatar
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    I can only write about the ADVC 300 which has two Banks of switches on the bottom to control the various input/output - row 5/switch row2 set to 'on' outputs the recorded video to 16:9 whereas when 'off' it outputs 4:3 letter-box.

    But I see a problem here. If your source is not anamorphic, selecting 16:9 is going to stretch your video. In other words, you must be sure than your playback device is outputting true 16:9.
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  10. Originally Posted by smrpix View Post
    Originally Posted by MrRGB View Post
    Thanks! Do you know if there is a Mac equivalent to this software/app? Or am I just missing the simple math for re-sizing my footage?
    No need to complicate things by resizing. 16:9 DV is 720x480 non-square pixels. iMovie has handled this kind of material fine for 20 years or so.
    @MrRGB .. Sorry , not sure of the Mac equivalent for Virtualdub. I'm sure one of the resident Mac experts could help there?.....

    As I say, I prefer to convert my footage to have square pixels ... as you will see here, not everyone agrees with that approach.

    I personally have had fewer problems with editing, converting and mixing footage with square pixels, rather than depending on the onward reliance of various players, editors, etc, to 'read ' any non square pixel aspect ratio 'flags' accurately.

    But as this is the internet, you will have to discover for yourself the best approach to this. As always where there are 'experts' involved, you will get a variety of answers.
    I can only post what works for me personally.....
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  11. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    What the OP needs to do first is capture (either as 4:3 DV 720x480 or 16:9 DV 720x480), then crop and resize. At the point of capture (actually even before that), it is already letterboxed, as jagabo said. That is the fault of the camera itself, which happens to be "cheating" to give you 16:9. So of the 720x480 pixels, only 720x360 is wanted picture - the rest is black. You'll need to crop it down to 720x360, then resize either to a square pixel size or a non-square pixel size. Mind the fact that your source footage is INTERLACED!

    This can all be done well on a PC using AVISynth, but on a Mac will be much harder. Do you have Parallels/BootCamp?

    Scott
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  12. The best solution is to get an HDMI capture device and HDCP stripper so you can record in HD.
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    There must be an easy solution for this. When I'm creating my own videos from scratch & shooting and importing video in 16:9, I never have this problem. it ONLY happens when transferring 16:9 video through the Canopus ADVC 100 from my DVR.

    I found out in the iMovie 6 HD prefs under "Import" I had "Automatic DV Pillarboxing & Letterboxing" checked. I unchecked it, and it stopped pillar boxing, but the top & bottom letter boxing still occurs.

    Does anyone have any experience with a set-up like mine that can offer a step-by-step approach or know where there might be something like that online?
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  14. Originally Posted by MrRGB View Post
    There must be an easy solution for this. When I'm creating my own videos from scratch & shooting and importing video in 16:9, I never have this problem. it ONLY happens when transferring 16:9 video through the Canopus ADVC 100 from my DVR.
    Because your source is putting out 16:9 letterboxed in a 4:3 DAR frame and the ADVC 100 can only capture what the source is putting out. Don't be fooled by pippas. He lives in the UK were it's common to have 16:9 anamorphic in SD analog video. That's rarely the case in the USA because there was never any 16:9 SD broadcast.

    As was pointed out by Cornucopia, if you want to convert your 4:3 caps you have to crop the frame down to 720x360, resize back up to 720x480 and encode as 16:9 DAR, or resize to a 16:9 frame size and encode with square pixels. And since your source is interlaced you have to inverse telecine, deinterlace, or use interlace aware resizing techniques.
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Because your source is putting out 16:9 letterboxed in a 4:3 DAR frame and the ADVC 100 can only capture what the source is putting out.
    So this is where I'm getting stumped: why is the ADVC 100 importing a widescreen broadcast (my source) as 4:3 letterboxed instead of 16:9 into an iMovie session setup for widescreen? Is it a limitation of the hardware?
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  16. Originally Posted by MrRGB View Post
    So this is where I'm getting stumped: why is the ADVC 100 importing a widescreen broadcast (my source) as 4:3 letterboxed instead of 16:9
    Because that's what your source device is putting out. It's not a problem with the ADVC 100 or the software you're using. It's the source.
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Originally Posted by MrRGB View Post
    So this is where I'm getting stumped: why is the ADVC 100 importing a widescreen broadcast (my source) as 4:3 letterboxed instead of 16:9
    Because that's what your source device is putting out. It's not a problem with the ADVC 100 or the software you're using. It's the source.
    So, if I'm understanding you correctly, the 16:9 image coming from my DVR is really a 4:3 image that my DVR or TV is expanding to 16:9 but the ADVC sees as it as 4:3 and exports it to my editing software as such.

    FYI: I went to the Grass Valley/Canopus forum that seems to confirm that:

    "Secondly, since the ADVC doesn't know whether the analog signal is normal (4:3) or widescreen (16:9) aspect ratio, it simply assumes 4:3 and sets a flag in the DV stream sent to the computer that it is 4:3. It has captured the full 720x480 frame, it just (wrongly) tells the computer that it is 4:3. There needs to be a setting in the editing or conversion software on your computer to override this to tell the software that it really is 16:9. All editing applications should have such a setting, but I'm don't know if the software you are using has such a setting."
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    The ADVC is capturing a true 4:3 picture. Your DVR is letter boxing the original 16:9 HD picture to create a new 4:3 aspect ratio picture and downsizing to SD to sent out via the DVR's S-Video connection or composite connection. Most are programmed to do that because it is assumed that SD connections are going to be used with an 4:3 SD TV, and reformatting the picture that way allows a 4:3 SD TV to display a smaller 16:9 picture area without distortion.

    Some set top boxes can be set up to output anamorphic 16:9 SD instead of letter boxing to 4:3, but that option is probably not common because a picture formatted in that way looks distorted on a 4:3 TV. An anamorphic picture would completely fill a 4:3 TV screen (no letter boxing), but people would look too tall and skinny.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 23rd Nov 2014 at 01:14.
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  19. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Much depends on what your DVR box is capable of. I've got TWC and it has both Zoom settings and AR settings options available. That combined with the dip switch settings that DB83 mentioned, plus the setting for iMovie capture, should give you what you hope for (fingers crossed).

    BTW, @smrpix, iMovie hasn't been able to easily handle DV for over 20 years as neither iMovie nor DV has been around that long. But otherwise your sentiment is correct - this should be a no-brainer (assuming the source is correctly set).

    Scott
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    Thanks one & all. I managed to get the manual for my Motorola DVR from Time-Warner and confirmed that the S-video output is indeed SD while the Component, HDMI & Firewire outputs are HD. This appears to be the issue right here.

    Further searching found that a Component to Composite converter (about $50) should do the trick.
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  21. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Yes, though S-video out should still have the capability (whether taken advantage of or not) of wide-screen signaling (in SD).

    Good luck,

    Scott
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  22. Originally Posted by MrRGB View Post
    I managed to get the manual for my Motorola DVR from Time-Warner and confirmed that the S-video output is indeed SD
    S-video and composite are always SD.

    Originally Posted by MrRGB View Post
    while the Component, HDMI & Firewire outputs are HD. This appears to be the issue right here. Further searching found that a Component to Composite converter (about $50) should do the trick.
    Only if it supports anamorphic 16:9 output. Otherwise it will do the same thing the cable box does.
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    I cannot believe the DVR doesn't have a setting somewhere to output anamorphic 16:9 SD (via S-Video and Composite) instead of Letterboxing.
    That's like the most basic setting any device should have.
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  24. Originally Posted by Skiller View Post
    I cannot believe the DVR doesn't have a setting somewhere to output anamorphic 16:9 SD (via S-Video and Composite) instead of Letterboxing.
    That's because you don't live in the USA.
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    I am confused by this 'them' ie Non-Usa and 'us' ie Usa comparisons.

    The inference here is that a US DVR is quite incapable of outputing a true 16:9 picture. Surely not all '16:9' US broadcasts are really 4:3 letter-boxed ?
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  26. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    I am confused by this 'them' ie Non-Usa and 'us' ie Usa comparisons.

    The inference here is that a US DVR is quite incapable of outputing a true 16:9 picture. Surely not all '16:9' US broadcasts are really 4:3 letter-boxed ?
    Composite output in the USA is almost always 4:3. Because, unlike many other parts of the world, there never was any 16:9 analog broadcast in the USA. And there were no widescreen TVs to speak of until HDTV came along.
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  27. Originally Posted by DB83 View Post
    The inference here is that a US DVR is quite incapable of outputing a true 16:9 picture. Surely not all '16:9' US broadcasts are really 4:3 letter-boxed ?
    There is some OTA 16:9 SD, but almost all cable boxes output SD as 4:3.
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    The Motorola DCH3416 is the DVR model I have.
    Page23/24 of the manual begins the explanation of the 16:9/4:3 capabilities:
    http://tv.manualsonline.com/manuals/mfg/motorola/dch3416.html?p=24

    A basic overview is here:
    http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Setup

    I've been going through the options one by one, but have yet to find 16:9 SD without letterboxing...
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Much depends on what your DVR box is capable of. I've got TWC and it has both Zoom settings and AR settings options available. That combined with the dip switch settings that DB83 mentioned, plus the setting for iMovie capture, should give you what you hope for (fingers crossed).

    BTW, @smrpix, iMovie hasn't been able to easily handle DV for over 20 years as neither iMovie nor DV has been around that long. But otherwise your sentiment is correct - this should be a no-brainer (assuming the source is correctly set).

    Scott
    The only difference between what DB83 mentions is that the ADVC 100 does not have the dip switch settings for 16:9 that the ADVC 300 does. The ADVC 300 is no longer manufactured and on the used marked costs anywhere from $250-$500. With that box (I'm told) converting to 16:9 SD is a non-issue.
    Last edited by MrRGB; 23rd Nov 2014 at 11:59.
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  30. Member Skiller's Avatar
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    @ MrRGB
    Set "TV Type" to "16:9". That will output anamorphic SD.

    http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Setup#TV_Type
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