select layer break position? but why?

[VideoNoob123]

hmmmmm, my discis a Double Layer disc so normally it should just burn right away doesnt it? why does it ask? i wanted to try and burn a ripped dvd with region code 1 to region code 0 i hope. but imgburn asks this above question and thats strange cause the file is around 6GB and my Disc is over 8 GB.

[jman98]

It's giving you a choice rather than making it for you. To be honest, it might be somewhat difficult to accurately determine the previous layer break location after a rip has been done (I have no idea whether this is true or not - just suggesting it) or it may be that under some circumstances you might want to change it. I know that DVD-R DL discs are very restrictive about where the layer break can go and it's possible for a commercial disc to put it in a spot that would be disallowed for a DVD-R DL copy (but it would be fine for DVD+R DL).

[Noahtuck]

Well, it is a Dual Layer disc, which means, it has TWO layers!!

And if your file/movie/etc. is larger than one of the layers, which it obviously is otherwise you would be using Single Layer, it has to split the file
in some way to spread it across the TWO layers.

And for movies you usually want to find a spot where the LB is least noticiable, like during a scene change or black fade in fade out area so you don't notice the slight
hesitation when it changes from layer one to layer two.

[VideoNoob123]

wow, thanks! i never thought of this, i thought a double layer disc just is twice as big and there is no burden point or something, guess you only encounter this in the video world . cause copying normal files on a DL disc doesnt make a difference.

[LMotlow]

Say, that's three zingers in only two days. Doesn't get any better.

Say good night, Gracie.

[Skiller]

To be honest, it might be somewhat difficult to accurately determine the previous layer break location after a rip has been done (I have no idea whether this is true or not - just suggesting it)

If the layer break is in the middle of a Titleset (which it is most of the time), you can tell the position by looking at the Seamless flag of the Cells in PgcEdit. Per standard a layer break is non-seamless (however, it can be seamless also, see below), so the flag is missing – PgcEdit will mark it yellow. Also, often there is no chapter point at the layer break (same program, just a Cell split in two).

Like this for example. Layer break is at the end of Cell 7 and Cell 8 is the first Cell on the second layer.



By the way, I have never experienced any trouble by setting Seamless flag at the layer break anyway – actually this completely removes any pause between the layers on all my players and it's widely recommended.

[jman98]

Skiller - OK, but you missed my point. My point was "Can this be automated?" not "Can a human being use any program to determine the layer break?"

Well - Can finding the layer break be automated where it doesn't require a human to use PgcEdit and look?

[tarzan54]

I'm not sure why imgburn even ask's that question about layer break, The developer should change that in my opinion because it's a pain in the ass, I just use nero express for dual layers, Never had a problem an it doesn't ask.

[redwudz]

Using something like Nero probably works most times, then other times it causes a momentary breakup of the video at Nero's chosen layer break as it isn't in a correct location.
I would rather ImgBurn gives me some options if I want to produce a no-error DL DVD.

[Keyser]

When we talk about layer breaks people always assume we're referring to DVD-Video discs, but DL data discs also have a layer break. Just curious. If the layer break is stored in IFO files in DVD-Video, where is it stored in a data disc?

[Skiller]

The developer should change that in my opinion because it's a pain in the ass

Is it so much of a pain in the ass to click at one of the available layer break positions and then OK? Nero on the other hand does whatever it thinks works but that's not very helpful if you know/care where the layer break should be.

[r0lZ]

The difference with a data DVD is that a video DVD has (usually) one big continuous title (the main movie) that must be played without interruption. For that reason, the DVD-Video standard imposes that the first layer is written in the standard direction (from the inside to the outside of the disc), and the second layer must be written in the opposite direction. It is therefore possible, at the layer break position, to just focus the laser to the other layer, without having to move the head at another position before continuing to read the movie. In the other hand, when a big file is read from a data disc, nobody cares if the drive needs some time to go to and begin to read the second part of the file. Anyway, the layer break has been designed at the time where the DVD drives and standalone DVD players were very primitive and without large RAM buffers. Currently, a good drive is able to synchronise its head fast enough to avoid any pause during the playback, even if the layer break rules are broken. It's why PgcEdit and ImgBurn have an unofficial option called "seamless layer break" that suppress the little pause occurring when the laser is focussed on the second layer. However, if you don't use that "seamless layer break" option, for example to be compatible with old DVD players, you NEED to select the layer break point carefully, because you don't want a pause in the middle of an action scene, or when there is music playing in the background. It is difficult to analyse the content of the movie to find the best layer break point, and therefore that option MUST be given to the human. Nero has always been the worst burning program for dual layer DVDs, because in the beginning it was unable to specify the layer break correctly (and it's why I have written the burn function of PgcEdit), and now, it can do it, but it doesn't set it always to the best location.

As explained by Skiller, it is theoretically possible to find the layer break by examining the cells of the main movie. But many DVD rippers remove the seamless flag automatically when the DVD is copied (because they assume that the DVD will be shrunk and copied to a DVD-5 and the pause at the LB position is therefore an useless annoyance), and therefore the original position of the layer break is definitely lost. If there are several cells theoretically suitable to place the layer break, the best thing that can be done is to ask the user where he wants to place it, with a preview to see (and hear) the effect of the pause. PgcEdit and Imgburn try to find the best LB automatically, and if there are good reason to suspect that a certain cell is the original LB, it will be selected by default. But that doesn't mean that the user may not be able to change if if he wish, and therefore the program must show the GUI anyway (unless there is only one cell that can be selected). The "press one button and I'll do everything automatically" solution of Nero may seems fine to newbies, but it is not at all professional.

[tarzan54]

[/QUOTE]Is it so much of a pain in the ass to click at one of the available layer break positions and then OK? Nero on the other hand does whatever it thinks works but that's not very helpful if you know/care where the layer break should be.[/QUOTE]

Just saying for someone new to this it could be a pain when Nero does it for you, Surprise so many people criticize Nero as I have been using it for years with no problem but I do use imgburn also, Just hope the OP fiqured it out.

[jman98]

Just saying for someone new to this it could be a pain when Nero does it for you, Surprise so many people criticize Nero as I have been using it for years with no problem but I do use imgburn also, Just hope the OP fiqured it out.

We criticize Nero for reasons like the following.
1) When DVD-R DL discs came out, Nero wasn't able to burn them correctly. I assume that got fixed at some point, but it sucks to be the people who spent money on DVD-R DL discs and made coasters with Nero. Those discs were originally about $10 each if I remember correctly.
2) When burning DVDs, Nero packs the BUPs and their IFOs into the exact same block. This is technically legal, but it's insane. The whole reason that BUPs exist is that if a block containing an IFO can't be read, the corresponding BUP can save the day if it can be read. Putting them in the same block means if that block goes bad, it takes the BUP and IFO both with it and your video can't be played. Granted, this is highly unlikely to occur, but it's non-zero and the space savings are miniscule compared to the damage that could theoretically done if such a block went bad.
3) Nero did some stuff when burning SVCD that wasn't in line with the standards. Yes, most DVD players that support SVCD can play Nero burned discs anyway, but it seemed like some lazy programming was responsible for Nero doing this more than anything else.
4) If I remember correctly Nero also did something when burning VCD that also wasn't quite right. It only caused problems on some portable VCD players at the time, but again, it's an example of Nero just getting close enough to the standards without actually following them.

I think Nero is fine for other tasks like burning image files and making audio CDs.

[tarzan54]

Thanks for the info jman98, All the time using Nero express I never really looked into all of that, I just used it too burn video DVD+DL an Data Discs all other video I use imgburn, Great program.