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  1. Member
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    Hi,
    i'm trying to save some old family vhs, to a more "safe" format.
    What kind of device you thik that i must buy?

    Now i have a really cheap easycap stk1660 capture device, i never rember even i bought that, i suppose in a chinese shop years ago, but i supposse that's the worst choice to backup my vhs.

    So, i see some devices like diamond multimedia VC500 or the Huppage USB Live2, or i have seen 2 bundle like "MAGIX Rescue Your Videotapes!" or "Roxio vhs to dvd 3".

    What's the best choice?

    Then, i read aroud about TBC hardware, is need? or i could do without it?

    And at last, what you think about neat video plugin?

    Thank You
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    What's your PC - laptop or desktop? Laptops require you to use USB devices, which limits your options somewhat.

    It's impossible to say if you need TBC or not. In theory tapes you made yourself shouldn't need it, but with time tape degrades and it's possible that now your tapes have various issues that might make a TBC useful. I use the Hauppauge Colossus card, but you need a desktop to use it. It comes with an internal TBC you can turn on via a registry hack. It's met my needs. It only records in H.264 video format and AAC audio (AC3 audio is possible but not from VHS sources) so you'd have to be OK with those. This is a project you really should have done years ago and the longer you wait, the worse it will be to do it. VCRs break so finding replacements is now starting to be painful. The fewer tapes you have to do, the better. We had a guy a few months ago who wanted advice and he had over 200 tapes he swore he couldn't live without. If you're in a similar situation, then your task may be irrational. Nobody, including that guy himself, is ever going to watch all 200+ tapes he thinks he has to save. If you're trying to save, say 40 tapes, you may find after 20 tapes that your VCR breaks down. So whatever you have, definitely prioritize just in case. And be aware that while you may really have a reasonable amount of tapes to do and they may all truly be worth the effort, family members rarely share the enthusiasm or interest of the guys who post here asking for advice on this topic, so the idea that a wife/child/close relative is going to want to watch 20+ hours of your old videos may not be realistic. Don't be surprised if you do this and then nobody else really cares about watching the results.

    EasyCap is considered junk by most here. I don't use any of the editors that Neat Video works with, so I have no experience there.
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    For capturing lossless AVI video. members of this forum have recommended the Hauppauge USB Live 2 and the EZCAP.TV 116 EzCAPTURE, which are relatively easy to get in many countries. One of the other favorite capture devices at VideoHelp is the ATI TV Wonder HD 600 USB, but it is hard to find in the EU and device driver installation can be tricky for Windows 7 or Windows 8.x, although the device does work for both of them.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 7th Nov 2014 at 21:31.
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  4. If your Easycap device works properly you probably won't get much better quality from VHS with another device. A better option for visual quality is to use a DVD recorder with a line time base corrector as a passthrough.
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    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    What's your PC - laptop or desktop? Laptops require you to use USB devices, which limits your options somewhat.
    Oh well, i have many pc that i can use, laptops and desktops, i suppose to use my main desktop.

    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    It's impossible to say if you need TBC or not. In theory tapes you made yourself shouldn't need it, but with time tape degrades and it's possible that now your tapes have various issues that might make a TBC useful. I use the Hauppauge Colossus card, but you need a desktop to use it. It comes with an internal TBC you can turn on via a registry hack. It's met my needs.
    Well, this card is about 3 times more expensive of others, but if image quality that i could get is better i can get it, i was looking for usb only cause it's faster to plug and remove, but i can even open my desktop a plug a new card in it.

    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    VCRs break so finding replacements is now starting to be painful. The fewer tapes you have to do, the better. We had a guy a few months ago who wanted advice and he had over 200 tapes he swore he couldn't live without. If you're in a similar situation, then your task may be irrational. Nobody, including that guy himself, is ever going to watch all 200+ tapes he thinks he has to save. If you're trying to save, say 40 tapes, you may find after 20 tapes that your VCR breaks down. So whatever you have, definitely prioritize just in case.
    Eh, i know, but i must rip about 10 vhs, don't think more, i hope that my old VCR can wait to break a little more.

    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    And be aware that while you may really have a reasonable amount of tapes to do and they may all truly be worth the effort, family members rarely share the enthusiasm or interest of the guys who post here asking for advice on this topic, so the idea that a wife/child/close relative is going to want to watch 20+ hours of your old videos may not be realistic. Don't be surprised if you do this and then nobody else really cares about watching the results.
    Yeah, you are right, i'm dooing a lot of video to my sons (with a digital hd camera in progressive full frame to avoid capture problems), and problably i'll see them again really few times.
    But i'm speaking of few videos of my father that died last octorber, my mother will watch them again and again, so i must put them in a safer and easly backupable format.


    Originally Posted by jman98 View Post
    EasyCap is considered junk by most here
    Yeah i see, that easycap is a crap Poor quality, i ask only, cause i already have it, and i wanna buy something better and i asked cause i wanna buy something that's really better not a junk with a nice dress.


    What software you use to rip? (And have you a link to that registry hack that you told before)

    Ty
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    For capturing lossless AVI video. members of this forum have recommended the Hauppauge USB Live 2 and the EZCAP.TV 116 EzCAPTURE, which are relatively easy to get in many countries. One of the other favorite capture devices at VideoHelp is the ATI TV Wonder HD 600 USB, but it is hard to find in the EU and device driver installation can be tricky for Windows 7 or Windows 8.x, although the device does work for both of them.
    And you, if you need to buy one of theme, what's your best choice?


    P.s. I have no problems in force windows to do what i want so Easycap drivers have the same problems
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  7. Member ricardouk's Avatar
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    Hi everyone!

    Like many others i'm facing the vhs conversion/hardware/software problem, i tried an old capture card and and bought an eazycap usb aswell, ive got a dual core pc with windows 7, the avermedia media card didnt work..well sometimes it did lol...the eazycap usb capture didnt work as expected, lots of problems specially with the audio being behind, after reading lots of advices and trying to fix it i gave up.

    so i went looking for something simple that even someone without computer experience could do (my dad) and found the Hauppauge HD rocket portable recorder, it doesnt need a computer it records to h264 on the fly to usb, since it records SD at a high bitrate there wont be a lot of loss of quality (i think) and it can be edited later. saw some videos on youtube and in theory it works pretty well, no problem with ntfs (latest firmware), recorded footage can be imported to sony vegas and other NLE directly etc etc.

    http://www.amazon.com/Hauppauge-1540-Rocket-1080p-Recorder/dp/B00GEBVEI6

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w3J9JJb7co


    has anyone here tried one? what do you think? anything im missing?
    Thanks
    Last edited by ricardouk; 8th Nov 2014 at 07:42.
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  8. The Rocket deinterlaces all interlaced sources (all VHS). That loses half the temporal and spacial resolution.

    Regarding "Easycap": keep in mind there are many different devices sold under that name.
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    Originally Posted by sala_test View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    For capturing lossless AVI video. members of this forum have recommended the Hauppauge USB Live 2 and the EZCAP.TV 116 EzCAPTURE, which are relatively easy to get in many countries. One of the other favorite capture devices at VideoHelp is the ATI TV Wonder HD 600 USB, but it is hard to find in the EU and device driver installation can be tricky for Windows 7 or Windows 8.x, although the device does work for both of them.
    And you, if you need to buy one of theme, what's your best choice?
    The EZCAP.TV 116 reportedly produces a slightly sharper picture than the Hauppauge USB Live 2. Some people like sharper and others like softer. Other than that, the quality of the captures from the EZCAP.TV 116 and Hauppauge USB Live 2 are very close. Both are still in production. Both work with many capture programs. Both support capturing PAL 60 and NTSC 443 signals as well as standard PAL signals. Both Hauppauge and EZCAP.TV have websites and driver download pages. There is not much difference in the price. You will need to make your own choice.

    Note that the ATI TV Wonder HD 600 USB is out of production and would probably have to be purchased on eBay and shipped from N. America, so it isn't a good deal for you. Someone on this forum who has both the ATI TV Wonder HD 600 USB and the EZCAP.TV 116 says the picture quality is the same.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 8th Nov 2014 at 09:18.
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  10. Member ricardouk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    The Rocket deinterlaces all interlaced sources (all VHS). That loses half the temporal and spacial resolution.
    i deinterlace the vhs captures, over the years i read many threads about it here and, if you watch it on the pc or not etc etc but i dont see any difference, perhaps my eyes are not that good or i lack the know how on how to spot the differences.

    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Regarding "Easycap": keep in mind there are many different devices sold under that name.
    yes, loads od fakes...easy...eazy...the goal is that my dad does it on his spare time...dozens of family tapes...i tried to explain it with different softwares but he finds it confusing with all the options etc.

    any further info would be apreciated, thanks.
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  11. Originally Posted by ricardouk View Post
    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    The Rocket deinterlaces all interlaced sources (all VHS). That loses half the temporal and spacial resolution.
    i deinterlace the vhs captures, over the years i read many threads about it here and, if you watch it on the pc or not etc etc but i dont see any difference, perhaps my eyes are not that good or i lack the know how on how to spot the differences.
    Download and view 24v30v60.avi in this post:

    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/307004-Best-framerate-conversion-%28eg-23-97-to-30-...=1#post1888926

    The difference in motion between interlaced video (60 fields per second) and deinterlaced video (30 frames per second) is the same as the difference between the 30p (middle) and 60p (bottom) rows. Watch it full screen. The 30p row flickers/strobes badly. The 60p row is glassy smooth. Home video is usually very shaky and jerky and will flicker just like that in high contrast shots.

    I don't know what algorithm the Rocket uses for deinterlacing. But watch for jagged edges on sharp near-horizontal edges.

    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/292642-Deinterlacing-Tips-and-Good-news-that-i-foun...=1#post1784755
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    Originally Posted by ricardouk View Post
    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    The Rocket deinterlaces all interlaced sources (all VHS). That loses half the temporal and spacial resolution.
    i deinterlace the vhs captures, over the years i read many threads about it here and, if you watch it on the pc or not etc etc but i dont see any difference, perhaps my eyes are not that good or i lack the know how on how to spot the differences.

    Originally Posted by jagabo View Post
    Regarding "Easycap": keep in mind there are many different devices sold under that name.
    yes, loads od fakes...easy...eazy...the goal is that my dad does it on his spare time...dozens of family tapes...i tried to explain it with different softwares but he finds it confusing with all the options etc.

    any further info would be apreciated, thanks.
    Maybe you should start your own thread since your needs and the needs of the original poster are somewhat different.
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    The EZCAP.TV 116 reportedly produces a slightly sharper picture than the Hauppauge USB Live 2.
    When I hear this I hear "marketing speak".

    Each board captures the same number of pixels with possibly slightly different luma and chroma values so what does a sharper VHS capture mean?
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  14. Originally Posted by newpball View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    The EZCAP.TV 116 reportedly produces a slightly sharper picture than the Hauppauge USB Live 2.
    When I hear this I hear "marketing speak".

    Each board captures the same number of pixels with possibly slightly different luma and chroma values so what does a sharper VHS capture mean?
    It doesn't mean anything for VHS. VHS is so fuzzy horizontally even devices that capture only 352 pixels horizontally can get almost all of the VHS resolution.

    Other issues are more critical. Does the capture device crush blacks and blow out brights? How good is the comb filter? How well is the analog section isolated from the digital section (you don't want digital noise leaking in to the analog signal before it's digitized)? Can you get drivers that work with your OS? Do the drivers support the device's video proc amp? Does the device respond to (false) Macrovision? Etc.

    Most of the different SD capture devices use one of a handful of chips so they perform similarly. SD capture is old hat. There's nothing new in it in the last 10 years.
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Maybe you should start your own thread since your needs and the needs of the original poster are somewhat different.
    the search for the device is the same, i just added extra info, so i disagree,


    Vhs Capturing, what's capture device to buy?
    its my final post here on this thread, cheers jagaboo for the info
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    Originally Posted by newpball View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    The EZCAP.TV 116 reportedly produces a slightly sharper picture than the Hauppauge USB Live 2.
    When I hear this I hear "marketing speak".

    Each board captures the same number of pixels with possibly slightly different luma and chroma values so what does a sharper VHS capture mean?
    You are still a capture newbie. Most capture devices digitally enhance detail in the picture during capture to produce a "sharper" picture. The amount of enhancement applied by different capture devices varies. However, sharpening can add artifacts, such as ringing or halos. Some people prefer minimal sharpening for that reason. Others prefer to see more detail as long as the artifacts are not too noticeable.
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by newpball View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    The EZCAP.TV 116 reportedly produces a slightly sharper picture than the Hauppauge USB Live 2.
    When I hear this I hear "marketing speak".

    Each board captures the same number of pixels with possibly slightly different luma and chroma values so what does a sharper VHS capture mean?
    You are still a capture newbie. Most capture devices digitally enhance detail in the picture during capture to produce a "sharper" picture.
    Perhaps a person with the great experience you have can explain the fine difference between sharper and "sharper" and how that applies to VHS?

    VHS and details in one sentence, how funny!

    And the last thing I would want to do with a VHS source is applying any form of sharpening, unless perhaps it is going to be rendered on a postage stamp!

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    Originally Posted by newpball View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    The EZCAP.TV 116 reportedly produces a slightly sharper picture than the Hauppauge USB Live 2.
    When I hear this I hear "marketing speak".

    Each board captures the same number of pixels with possibly slightly different luma and chroma values so what does a sharper VHS capture mean?
    I tend to agree with the "marketing speak".
    My VCR has built-in TBC and selectable Sharp/Normal/Soft settings. While previewing the capture and switching between these modes I do notice a difference in the picture.....but once I have captured the video I could not tell you which setting I used because I do not notice any difference. Some people claim that they could easily tell which setting I used but I tend to roll my eyes in disbelief. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
    And I am one of the Hauppauge USB Live|2 users.....I love this damn thing. I also have a Hauppauge PVR-350 capture card in my computer and I cannot tell you the last time I used it.
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    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    Originally Posted by newpball View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    The EZCAP.TV 116 reportedly produces a slightly sharper picture than the Hauppauge USB Live 2.
    When I hear this I hear "marketing speak".

    Each board captures the same number of pixels with possibly slightly different luma and chroma values so what does a sharper VHS capture mean?
    I tend to agree with the "marketing speak".
    My VCR has built-in TBC and selectable Sharp/Normal/Soft settings.
    I would suggest that, if possible, you bypass all those sharpening and soft settings nothing good can come from it.

    Many people do not seem to realize that sharpening a picture actually removes details.
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    Originally Posted by newpball View Post
    And the last thing I would want to do with a VHS source is applying any form of sharpening, unless perhaps it is going to be rendered on a postage stamp!
    Exactly, but some capture devices do sharpen and don't give any control over it. You proved my point. ROTFLMAO
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 8th Nov 2014 at 12:31.
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    Originally Posted by newpball View Post
    And the last thing I would want to do with a VHS source is applying any form of sharpening, unless perhaps it is going to be rendered on a postage stamp!
    You proved my point. ROFLMAO
    OK then.
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    Originally Posted by newpball View Post
    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    Originally Posted by newpball View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    The EZCAP.TV 116 reportedly produces a slightly sharper picture than the Hauppauge USB Live 2.
    When I hear this I hear "marketing speak".

    Each board captures the same number of pixels with possibly slightly different luma and chroma values so what does a sharper VHS capture mean?
    I tend to agree with the "marketing speak".
    My VCR has built-in TBC and selectable Sharp/Normal/Soft settings.
    I would suggest that, if possible, you bypass all those sharpening and soft settings nothing good can come from it.

    Many people do not seem to realize that sharpening a picture actually removes details.
    Again....beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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    I use a semi-poor man's device, it's an Avermedia A177 PCI-e for about 65$ few years back. Works best for me out of literally dozen poor man's and semi-poor man's capture devices I have tried before and afterwards, be it a USB, PCI or PCIe. It works even perfectly if you have at least a VCR with EDIT mode and some kind of a line TBC in between as a passthrough, just to stabilize the picture and keep the A/V in synch.

    NeatVideo is great, superb, fantastic once you get into it, and you need a few hours of practice with the fine tuning. Afterwards you don't need any other individual filter chains to mess with, at least I don't need them anymore.
    Last edited by kodec; 11th Nov 2014 at 04:07.
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    I've used NeatVideo for years, since v.1.0. It's not like simple-simon with one or two buttons. There are over 40 parameters to play with. It helps to read the user guide, something you don't get with most filters. Critics of the filter claim it destroys video -- that's your first clue that they lazily stuck to the filter's default settings, didn't read the manual, didn't use the advanced interface, and used the wrong filter for the task at hand.

    Originally Posted by kodec View Post
    Afterwards you don't need any other individual filter chains to mess with, at least I don't need them anymore.
    Not quite. There are a few analog defects for which NeatVideo is completely useless: rainbows, spots, comets, aliasing, halos, dct ringing, ripples, dot crawl, line twitter -- to name the most common. Works well on salt-and-pepper grain and the kind of "simmering" floating grunge seen on tape, especially in dark areas, and is often a good fix for the kind of vague "cloud" of subtle noise running through analog sources. I don't think I've used any other filter that can attack that particular kind of low-frequency garbage as well as NeatVideo can. But it ain't a cure-all. You can't just throw it at everything. Sometimes it's the wrong tool at the wrong time.
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    Originally Posted by kodec View Post
    I use a semi-poor man's device, it's an Avermedia A177 PCI-e for about 65$ few years back. Works best for me out of literally dozen poor man's and semi-poor man's capture devices I have tried before and afterwards, be it a USB, PCI or PCIe. It works even perfectly if you have at least a VCR with EDIT mode and some kind of a line TBC in between as a passthrough, just to stabilize the picture and keep the A/V in synch.
    The only problem is that it was released around 2009 and is discontinued by the manufacturer, so finding one in good condition could prove difficult.
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    This guy sells one in excellent condition (really it's not me, I have two on two different PCs and certainly wouldn't sell any knowing it will be more and more difficult to find it). It's in Croatian but you can see the price in €. If anyone here wants to buy it I could make a personal contact and send because the guy in the ad says he doesn't send by mail.

    http://www.njuskalo.hr/pc-kartice/avertv-duo-hybrid-pci-e-tv-kartica-oglas-12899149
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    Originally Posted by LMotlow View Post
    Not quite. There are a few analog defects for which NeatVideo is completely useless: rainbows, spots, comets, aliasing, halos, dct ringing, ripples, dot crawl, line twitter -- to name the most common. Works well on salt-and-pepper grain and the kind of "simmering" floating grunge seen on tape, especially in dark areas, and is often a good fix for the kind of vague "cloud" of subtle noise running through analog sources. I don't think I've used any other filter that can attack that particular kind of low-frequency garbage as well as NeatVideo can. But it ain't a cure-all. You can't just throw it at everything. Sometimes it's the wrong tool at the wrong time.
    I'm sure you're absolutely right; as said, ever since I've been using such a fabulous piece of software on my VHS materials, luckily there was no need to mess with any other filter chains I'd been trying before (and never found any half as satisfactory as NeatVideo). In the future though I will certainly keep an eye for those particular problems you mentioned. Yes, among other things NeatVideo really is fantastic in dark areas, that is one quality an amateur such as myself certainly can spot immediately.
    Last edited by kodec; 11th Nov 2014 at 14:00.
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