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  1. Member SHS's Avatar
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    Last edited by SHS; 5th Nov 2014 at 21:01.
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    Politics in the USA works simple: you have money and lobby and thus "convince" the folks in congress how they should vote.

    The audio/video industry is powerful in the USA, remember the "Mickey Mouse" copyright extension law?

    You watch, in the year 6959 a drawing resembling a sketch of a silly mouse drawn about 5000 years earlier is still illegal.
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    I'm assuming this is the link. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/35-cable-digital-cable-non-hdtv/1749690-we-need-your-hel...cablecard.html

    On Hauppauges' twitter page, that was the link they posted. Here is the twitter page. https://twitter.com/HauppaugeHQ
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  4. Member SHS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Clockwork View Post
    Fix the link.
    It fixs
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  5. Member SHS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by newpball View Post
    Politics in the USA works simple: you have money and lobby and thus "convince" the folks in congress how they should vote.

    The audio/video industry is powerful in the USA, remember the "Mickey Mouse" copyright extension law?

    You watch, in the year 6959 a drawing resembling a sketch of a silly mouse drawn about 5000 years earlier is still illegal.
    More like the MPAA and RIAA that are doing it after all it just making people even more mad one of those day it going bit in rear.
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    There are actually still people out there stupid enough to give their $$$$ to any cable company ?!?!?!?!

    I have not had cable anything for at least 10 years and I will watch shadow puppets by campfire before I ever give those POS a single penny again!!!!!!
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  7. Member SHS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Noahtuck View Post
    There are actually still people out there stupid enough to give their $$$$ to any cable company ?!?!?!?!

    I have not had cable anything for at least 10 years and I will watch shadow puppets by campfire before I ever give those POS a single penny again!!!!!!
    Look who talking you got internet right? after all that what people have for internet now day beside DLS or some thing else.
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    Originally Posted by SHS View Post
    Look who talking you got internet right? after all that what people have for internet now day beside DLS or some thing else.
    Yep, I have internet, and NEVER has it ever been through ANY cable company, so yeah, I am talking!!!
    Had DSL for years because it used to be WAY better than Cable!!!!
    Last year it was upgraded to Uverse and fiber optic and is still WAY better than Cable anything!!!!

    So now, what was your point ?!?!?!
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  9. Member SHS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Noahtuck View Post
    Originally Posted by SHS View Post
    Look who talking you got internet right? after all that what people have for internet now day beside DLS or some thing else.
    Yep, I have internet, and NEVER has it ever been through ANY cable company, so yeah, I am talking!!!
    Had DSL for years because it used to be WAY better than Cable!!!!
    Last year it was upgraded to Uverse and fiber optic and is still WAY better than Cable anything!!!!

    So now, what was your point ?!?!?!
    That it still cable even if it fiber optic so now you have eat you own words and you do know that AT&T is a cable company.
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    Wrong, SHS. Now, they amount to basically the same thing, but they have arrived at a similar destination from very different paths. And at one point, there WAS a number of big differences between the varieties.

    example:
    AT&T is a phone & data communications company (and ISP) that now also provides cable-type programming.
    TWC/Comcast is a cable-type company that now also provides phone & data communications (and being an ISP).

    Both have been homogenized through the ubiquity of the Internet.

    ***************

    Overall, I'd say it depends on the tiering system and whether certain kinds of video/audio/phone/data programming can be gotten on an ala-carte system or on a required-bundled system. I'm sure what Noahtuck is saying is he's in favor of the former, regardless of what kind of wire technology is used in the pipeline.

    Scott
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  11. Member SHS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Wrong, SHS. Now, they amount to basically the same thing, but they have arrived at a similar destination from very different paths. And at one point, there WAS a number of big differences between the varieties.

    example:
    AT&T is a phone & data communications company (and ISP) that now also provides cable-type programming.
    TWC/Comcast is a cable-type company that now also provides phone & data communications (and being an ISP).

    Both have been homogenized through the ubiquity of the Internet.

    ***************

    Overall, I'd say it depends on the tiering system and whether certain kinds of video/audio/phone/data programming can be gotten on an ala-carte system or on a required-bundled system. I'm sure what Noahtuck is saying is he's in favor of the former, regardless of what kind of wire technology is used in the pipeline.

    Scott
    Sorry but your wrong there even list as cable company in fact they can't provide TV service with out being a cable company first going by FCC rule maybe you need read up Aereo case, Oh and let not forget there try buy DirecTV so if and when that happing they have apply for Satellite Broadcast Licenses.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cable_television_companies#United_States
    Last edited by SHS; 6th Nov 2014 at 08:03.
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    I would like to keep CableCARDs too, and see a new standard interface (AllVid) in the future, but it ain't going to happen.

    I think it is fair to point out that AT&T's U-Verse is an IPTV system, and as such they are exempt from the requirement to use CableCARDs or any other consumer-friendly standard interface. There is no choice but to use their equipment. The same is true of satellite service. Cable companies have argued for years that since their competition is exempt from the requirement to use CableCARDs it is unfair to force them to use this technology, and it looks like they will get their way. The House of Representatives has already passed legislation to end the CableCARD requirement. http://www.lightreading.com/cable-video/set-top-boxes/house-votes-to-kill-cablecard-ma.../d/d-id/710079 ...and since both houses are now pro-business, anti-regulation and anti-consumer, there is no chance a write in campaign will succeed. There is probably never going to be a required standard separable security interface again. AllVid, which was proposed a few years ago as the replacement for CableCARDS, has gone nowhere.

    Cable providers use QAM over copper or fiber and have been required to use CableCARDS for their standard cable boxes and PVRs since 2007, but not on legacy equipment or cheap DTAs for basic cable customers. Some traditional cable companies (Comcast is one) are experimenting with IPTV as a delivery system. If the experiment is successful they will certainly abandon CableCARDS as part of the delivery system regardless.
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    Originally Posted by SHS View Post
    Sorry but your wrong there even list as cable company in fact they can't provide TV service with out being a cable company first going by FCC rule maybe you need read up Aereo case, Oh and let not forget there try buy DirecTV so if and when that happing they have apply for Satellite Broadcast Licenses.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cable_television_companies#United_States
    AT&T is technically an IPTV provider. As such they are regulated differently than Comcast/TWC, Cablevision, Verizon, or other cable companies, and do not use CableCARDS in their set-top boxes or provide them to customers.
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  14. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    This from ABC (one of those broadcast winners in that Aereo case):
    What is a TV provider?

    A TV provider is the company you pay in order to get your television service, like a cable company, a satellite company or a telco (also called a telecommunications company).
    Notice they spell out 3 different kinds of "TV providers". The Aereo case was about rebroadcast of specific kinds of TV programming without being one of those licensed "TV providers". Not "cable company", TV provider.

    Netflix & Hulu have some TV programming, which allows you to get them through ANY streaming service (sprint, joe blow's ISP microwave tower), but you'll notice that unless they have made specific deals to license certain "channels" or individual programs, much of your standard OTA stuff will not be available. Specifically because they are not "TV providers".

    Again, the point Noahtuck was focusing on dealt much less with the nomenclature of "cable company" vs. others, but on ala-carte vs. bundled tiered service choices. It's just that most TV providers, including cable companies, don't find it economically in their best interest to unbundle.

    Scott
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    usually_quiet yes IPTV "Internet Protocol Television" is great idea but that also mean have to use the companies set-top box.
    They been experimenting with IPTV for min years what do you think VOD is and other odd name like it are as the only real diff is it not a Time-shifted television or is not related to TV programming like ABC, NBC, AMC, SpikeTV, etc, etc steaming 24/7.

    So I take you miss all this last years?.
    http://www.fiercecable.com/story/fcc-says-iptv-providers-should-pay-regulatory-fees/2013-08-13
    http://www.fcc.gov/document/fy-2013-regulatory-fees-report-order
    They no longer regulated differently then cable they are no under the same rules
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  16. Member SHS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    This from ABC (one of those broadcast winners in that Aereo case):
    What is a TV provider?
    A TV provider is the company you pay in order to get your television service, like a cable company, a satellite company or a telco (also called a telecommunications company).
    That true we know that

    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Notice they spell out 3 different kinds of "TV providers". The Aereo case was about rebroadcast of specific kinds of TV programming without being one of those licensed "TV providers". Not "cable company", TV provider.
    Yes I agree there done wrong by rebroadcast but the point was they have to be come a cable company in order do what they where doing even know they where IPTV service provider.

    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Netflix & Hulu have some TV programming, which allows you to get them through ANY streaming service (sprint, joe blow's ISP microwave tower), but you'll notice that unless they have made specific deals to license certain "channels" or individual programs, much of your standard OTA stuff will not be available. Specifically because they are not "TV providers".
    That is true min of the channel I and brother watch are not online

    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    Again, the point Noahtuck was focusing on dealt much less with the nomenclature of "cable company" vs. others, but on ala-carte vs. bundled tiered service choices. It's just that most TV providers, including cable companies, don't find it economically in their best interest to unbundle.
    That not case here it Broadcast that only do package deal.
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    Originally Posted by SHS View Post
    usually_quiet yes IPTV "Internet Protocol Television" is great idea but that also mean have to use the companies set-top box.
    They been experimenting with IPTV for min years what do you think VOD is and other odd name like it are as the only real diff is it not a Time-shifted television or is not related to TV programming like ABC, NBC, AMC, SpikeTV, etc, etc steaming 24/7.

    So I take you miss all this last years?.
    http://www.fiercecable.com/story/fcc-says-iptv-providers-should-pay-regulatory-fees/2013-08-13
    http://www.fcc.gov/document/fy-2013-regulatory-fees-report-order
    They no longer regulated differently then cable they are no under the same rules
    Well, in fact when I wrote "regulated differently" I did not mean the FCC doesn't regulate AT&T, but meant that they don't follow the same rules as traditional cable companies.

    ...and a traditional cable provider's VOD and other interactive TV services are not the same as a full IPTV system, which is what Comcast and others are experimenting with in some areas.
    http://www.engadget.com/2014/08/21/comcast-iptv-xfinity-on-campus/
    http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Comcast-Offers-IPTV-Service-to-College-Campuses-130151
    http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/03/07/this-company-will-dominate-the-iptv-revolution.aspx

    The fact remains that AT&T is not required to use CableCARDs because they are not actually a cable company. They are using the Internet and Internet protocols to deliver TV. Here 's a quote from one of the articles you linked to proving my point:

    from http://www.fiercecable.com/story/fcc-says-iptv-providers-should-pay-regulatory-fees/2013-08-13

    Rather than lump IPTV into the cable category--something that drew objections from AT&T (NYSE: T) in its comments--the Commission set up an expanded its target category to "cable television systems and Internet Protocol TV service providers" on which fees will be calculated on a per-subscriber basis and in "the same manner as we assess fees on cable television providers."

    "We are not stating that IPTV providers are cable television providers," the report said.
    Frankly, I don't see a reason to read your posts in this thread anymore. Trying to make sense of posts written by someone who has proven time after time to be ignorant about anything other than Hauppauge products, functionally illiterate, and unable to write a coherent sentence in English is a waste of time.

    ...and "min" is short for "minimum" not "many".
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 6th Nov 2014 at 13:22.
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  18. Member SHS's Avatar
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    IPTV system is base on VOD system with a few difference parts which the distribution signals delivery can both use IP
    Being you have Media Center I'm also guest you also have a media center extender? if yes then you have an IPTV/VoD system.

    IPTV services is classified into three main groups
    1: Live television, with or without interactivity related to the current TV show.
    2: Time-shifted television: catch-up TV (replays a TV show that was broadcast hours or days ago), start-over TV (replays the current TV show from its beginning).
    3: Video on demand (VOD): browse a catalog of videos, not related to TV programming.

    The fact remains that AT&T is still a cable companies your the one keep bring up CableCard when ever ones know CableCard don't work over IPTV nor VoD.

    time after time to be ignorant about anything other than Hauppauge products
    Really then may ask CEO to pleases remove listed TiVo, Samsung or Silicon Dust have gotten off there butt with so much have said not one word on there web site or forum or even there facebook page about.

    So because I not good at writing.
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    Originally Posted by SHS View Post
    IPTV system is base on VOD system with a few difference parts which the distribution signals delivery can both use IP
    Being you have Media Center I'm also guest you also have a media center extender? if yes then you have an IPTV/VoD system.

    IPTV services is classified into three main groups
    1: Live television, with or without interactivity related to the current TV show.
    2: Time-shifted television: catch-up TV (replays a TV show that was broadcast hours or days ago), start-over TV (replays the current TV show from its beginning).
    3: Video on demand (VOD): browse a catalog of videos, not related to TV programming.

    The fact remains that AT&T is still a cable companies your the one keep bring up CableCard when ever ones know CableCard don't work over IPTV nor VoD.

    time after time to be ignorant about anything other than Hauppauge products
    Really then may ask CEO to pleases remove listed TiVo, Samsung or Silicon Dust have gotten off there butt with so much have said not one word on there web site or forum or even there facebook page about.

    So because I not good at writing.
    No I do not use an extender. Why would I use an extender with only one LCD TV?

    You are not good at reading either. One of the links you posted as proof that AT&T is a cable company says the opposite. It says the FCC doesn't consider AT&T or other IPTV providers to be cable companies.

    Being unable to understand a few sentences written in very simple English in an article you linked to yourself shows that your reading skills are also insufficient for ordinary practical needs. This is functional illiteracy by any definition.

    ...and the reason I keep bring up CableCards is that FCC rules requires cable service providers offering encrypted digital service to supply CableCARDs to customers and use CableCARDs in the majority of their set-top boxes. AT&T U-Verse doesn't use CableCARDs at all in spite of being all digital, hence they are not subject to all the same rules that cable service providers must follow.

    You have dug yourself a very deep hole. Anyone but a fool would have already stopped digging.

    [Edit]I forgot to reply another one of you false statements. I happen to have a cable box with a CableCARD. Incoming signals from Comcast and outgoing signals to Comcast go through the RF connection for the CableCARD. CableCARDs work just fine for VOD as long as they are installed in a cable box. The VOD is supplied on a QAM sub channel like all the other digital cable channels, not using IP protocols. Before Comcast encrypted most QAM channels I could channel surf with a QAM TV tuner and watch another subscriber's VOD request.

    Now I am done.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 6th Nov 2014 at 15:46.
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  20. Member SHS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    No I do not use an extender. Why would I use an extender with only one LCD TV?
    In more then one room in house some of US do have more then one

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    You are not good at reading either. One of the links you posted as proof that AT&T is a cable company says the opposite. It says the FCC doesn't consider AT&T or other IPTV providers to be cable companies.
    It doesn't say that "We are not stating that IPTV providers are cable television providers" that what it said.
    But ever where else say diff story and I agree and the way see it as long you have cable line coming in from main street node hub off the pole or under ground to our house it doesn't matter if it coaxial line or fiber optic line in from of QAM or IPTV or what ever the case may be going to min other houses and it still broadcast the same way as if you where watching on TWC, CableOne, Comcast, Google FiberTV or what ever which not like Satellite or Over the Air Antenna which is wireless.

    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    ...and the reason I keep bring up CableCards is that FCC rules requires cable service providers offering encrypted digital service to supply CableCARDs to customers and use CableCARDs in the majority of their set-top boxes. AT&T U-Verse doesn't use CableCARDs at all in spite of being all digital, hence they are not subject to all the same rules that cable service providers must follow.
    I understsnd that but it can't supported in same way, and if it did you can beat we all ready have something by now, but rest of the rule do apply.
    Last edited by SHS; 6th Nov 2014 at 17:21.
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    [Edit]I forgot to reply another one of you false statements. I happen to have a cable box with a CableCARD. Incoming signals from Comcast and outgoing signals to Comcast go through the RF connection for the CableCARD. CableCARDs work just fine for VOD as long as they are installed in a cable box. The VOD is supplied on a QAM sub channel like all the other digital cable channels, not using IP protocols. Before Comcast encrypted most QAM channels I could channel surf with a QAM TV tuner and watch another subscriber's VOD request.
    Hmm false statements, oh really then you have an MAC address on your Cable Box so there for if didn't it couldn't find your set-top box to tell it to start playing the video, Also on there end which are big room which have system called play-out server with min TB disk space on RAID setup box not count all other system in house that also all tie in mega fast hub , Try again usually_quiet.
    Being I wasn't allow to take photo at TWC Server Room some years back this page below with photo here
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/Print/2014/08/22/feature_part_two_virgin_media_cable_tv_n...to_the_server/
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    Originally Posted by SHS View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    You are not good at reading either. One of the links you posted as proof that AT&T is a cable company says the opposite. It says the FCC doesn't consider AT&T or other IPTV providers to be cable companies.
    It doesn't say that "We are not stating that IPTV providers are cable television providers" that what it said.
    But ever where else say diff story and I agree and the way see it as long you have cable line coming in from main street node hub off the pole or under ground to our house it doesn't matter if it coaxial line or fiber optic line in from of QAM or IPTV or what ever the case may be going to min other houses and it still broadcast the same way as if you where watching on TWC, CableOne, Comcast, Google FiberTV or what ever which not like Satellite or Over the Air Antenna which is wireless.
    No. The firececable.com article explicitly makes a distinction between IPTV-based TV services and cable TV services everywhere, not in just the one sentence from the article that I quoted and that you re-quoted.

    If you are not functionally illiterate then you are deliberately choosing to not to understand what the fiercecable.com article says so you don't have to admit that you are wrong.

    The fiercecable.com article goes on to say the following:
    While IPTV finally got caught in the regulatory net, the FCC declined to haul in satellite TV, noting that it would revisit that issue in the future.
    Since the fierce cable article mentioned that the FCC is considering the possibility of adding satellite TV providers to the list of those who must to pay the regulatory fee at some future date, I guess that makes them cable TV providers as well. (I'm being sarcastic) LOL
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 6th Nov 2014 at 20:54. Reason: grammar
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    Originally Posted by SHS View Post
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    [Edit]I forgot to reply another one of you false statements. I happen to have a cable box with a CableCARD. Incoming signals from Comcast and outgoing signals to Comcast go through the RF connection for the CableCARD. CableCARDs work just fine for VOD as long as they are installed in a cable box. The VOD is supplied on a QAM sub channel like all the other digital cable channels, not using IP protocols. Before Comcast encrypted most QAM channels I could channel surf with a QAM TV tuner and watch another subscriber's VOD request.
    Hmm false statements, oh really then you have an MAC address on your Cable Box so there for if didn't it couldn't find your set-top box to tell it to start playing the video, Also on there end which are big room which have system called play-out server with min TB disk space on RAID setup box not count all other system in house that also all tie in mega fast hub , Try again usually_quiet.
    Being I wasn't allow to take photo at TWC Server Room some years back this page below with photo here
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/Print/2014/08/22/feature_part_two_virgin_media_cable_tv_n...to_the_server/
    LOL I stated I was using a QAM TV tuner to watch, and the channel was not encrypted. I couldn't have used VOD then even if I wanted to. I didn't even have a cable box yet. I still had analog service in 2008 when I found I was able to see VOD other people were watching while I was channel surfing. I observed the channel pausing, fast forwarding, and rewinding, so it had to be a VOD offering that somebody else in the neighborhood requested.

    [Edit]All that ended once Comcast finished encrypting all digital cable-only channels, but there is no mistaking what I saw using just a QAM TV tuner. The VOD was delivered using a QAM sub-channel like the regular digital cable channels, which I could also watch without a cable box for a short period of time.

    [Edit 2]

    You omitted a crucial part of the Wikipedia article in post #19. The Wikipedia IPTV article starts by saying the following about IPTV :
    Internet Protocol television (IPTV) is a system through which television services are delivered using the Internet protocol suite over a packet-switched network such as a LAN or the Internet,
    Since Comcast's VOD is plainly delivered using a standard QAM subchannel, it certainly doesn't qualify as IPTV.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 6th Nov 2014 at 20:59.
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  24. Member SHS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet View Post
    LOL I stated I was using a QAM TV tuner to watch, and the channel was not encrypted. I couldn't have used VOD then even if I wanted to. I didn't even have a cable box yet. I still had analog service in 2008 when I found I was able to see VOD other people were watching while I was channel surfing. I observed the channel pausing, fast forwarding, and rewinding, so it had to be a VOD offering that somebody else in the neighborhood requested.

    [Edit]All that ended once Comcast finished encrypting all digital cable-only channels, but there is no mistaking what I saw using just a QAM TV tuner. The VOD was delivered using a QAM sub-channel like the regular digital cable channels, which I could also watch without a cable box for a short period of time.
    Yup that true I saw that from time to time as well on open channel on TWC but that all change with encrypting and add SDV tuning adapter are now build in to Cable Card Box and it why if you pick up USB or PCIe CableCard device you have one of those tuning adapter because it still has communicate via IP to the operators servers to perform the requests that are currently handled by the TA or Cable box which tell it what channel and sub channel to tune to.
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    Originally Posted by SHS View Post
    it still has communicate via IP to the operators servers to perform the requests that are currently handled by the TA or Cable box which tell it what channel and sub channel to tune to.
    If you had understood the IPTV Wikipedia article you would know that to qualify as IPTV, the video itself has to be delivered over a packet-switched network such as a LAN or the Internet. Video delivered via a QAM subchannel does not qualify as IPTV. The nature of the communication between the cable box or tuning adapter and the server does not count.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 6th Nov 2014 at 21:44.
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